Letters to editor on abortion.

[powderman]

In a 1996 resolution on partial-birth abortion, the Southern Baptist Convention reaffirmed its opposition to abortion, stating that "all human life is a sacred gift from our sovereign God and therefore ... all abortions, except in those very rare cases where the life of the mother is clearly in danger, are wrong."



This pretty well mirrors my opinion. I'm saddened to see that there are some supposedly Christian churches who would allow a child to be killed because it was not wanted. The Lou paper showed some womens libbers in a methodist church lighting candles to celebrate roe vs wade and their right to kill. Sad to see Gods churches slide into satans pit.
SCOOTRD. That Jewish family is in my prayers too. POWDERMAN. 

[SHOOTALL]

beware of false churches ................

[Junior1942]

In a 1996 resolution on partial-birth abortion, the Southern Baptist Convention . . . .

Back in the early 70s the Southern Baptist Convention held its annual convention in Las Vegas.  Exactly 90% of the rooms rented by the Baptists subscribed to the TV porno channel.

[SHOOTALL]

It would be interesting to know who published that and see the data. Consider that most if not all knows what is on their credit cards is almost public. BTW what is the porno channel ? Adult TV . or R rated TV ?

[powderman]

junior. Heh, were you there? How did you know they had a porno channel?? Do you have secret access to the hotels files? I find that comment a bit ridiculous, but amusing. Anything to try to discredit Christians, right?  POWDERMAN. 

[Junior1942]

junior. Heh, were you there? How did you know they had a porno channel?? Do you have secret access to the hotels files? I find that comment a bit ridiculous, but amusing. Anything to try to discredit Christians, right?  POWDERMAN. 

I give discredit only when discredit is due, PM.  Search the archives of the *Times-Picayune * if you don't believe me.  It was a big stink here in Louisiana when it happened.  It seems New Orleans was too sinful for their convention.  I suspect a New Orleans reporter looked at the hotel's TV billings on a hunch.

[ironglow]

In a 1996 resolution on partial-birth abortion, the Southern Baptist Convention . . . .

Back in the early 70s the Southern Baptist Convention held its annual convention in Las Vegas.  Exactly 90% of the rooms rented by the Baptists subscribed to the TV porno channel.

          I think that we all know by now that liberals are great a pulling statistics out of thin air.   Since they don't have a moral compass...to them, lying is no big deal.
   Don't we all remember when the left accused George H.W. Bush (a heroic WW2 torpedo plane pilot) of jumping into an SR71 Blackbird and going to the mideast to conduct secret diplomacy ?  We all must always check a leftie's stats...and run the numbers !
    I recall hearing a liberal some years ago claim some outrageous sounding statistic...something like there are the equivalent of 3 of NY City's Central Park clean cut out of the rainforest every 10 minutes..or some such crazy idea.  I went to the almanac, got the acrerage figures of both and found that the rainforest would have been gone several decades  earlier, had their stats been correct..

[scootrd]

Scootrd & Junior;
          I believe we should be honest her and admit that of the nearly 50 million babies killed...using the very small percentage of doubtful cases as a wedge is a desperate attempt to set up a "straw man".
     As far as the Jewish  couple you mentioned, not being Jewish I cannot counsel them spiritually, but whatever they decide to do, the ramifications would be the same before or after the 1973  Roe V Wade decision.  They face a religious decision rather than a legal one.

I personally am using nothing as a wedge issue here (and kind of take a bit offense to that) .  Now,  if your inferring others may have used this as as wedge issue in the past and not me personally... fine  I get your over arching point.

However,
What my friends are going through is real and was being discussed before this thread even began.
Additionally -  My religion does not condone abortion under any means. But that is my religion not theirs.

My question was merely trying to be a thoughtful one and to think through all the ramifications should abortion become illegal.  Though not my beliefs , if abortion was to become Illegal what recourse do those with different religious beliefs have> and therefore are we not then infringing on there religious freedoms to practice their beliefs and religious laws?

If abortion would be outlawed as you stated  - now the coin would be flipped and now they would be facing a legal issue and not just a religious one.

I don't have the answers for others. I know my beliefs and that's all I am prepared to control. 
I pray for my friends in their troubled situation.

[Dixie Dude]

I think at least it should be a "states rights" issue.  Go with the moral flow of the locale.  Feds should not be involved.  Supreme Court should have ruled in favor of States Rights. 

[teamnelson]

Sure, have your election.  A couple of points: You seem to be saying you want to eliminate the Supreme Court because you don't like one of their decisions.  Didn't you vow to uphold the Constitution?  Also, how do you propose to pay for the sudden huge increase  in individual welfare if you eliminate abortions?  Maybe we could tax churches!

Totally ignored my second paragraph there didn't you. And handily didn't post it in your reply ... my stance on the constitutional argument as it relates to abortion has been delineated here twice and elsewhere numerous times. The Supreme Court itself has been divided on its role in determining moral issues for the people, when the body of law indicates that its a matter for the people. I would very much like SCOTUS to do its job per the Constitution to which I've sworn an oath.

Ways you've dodged the issues so far (i.e. Logical fallacies): You've tried the ad populem, claiming a majority view, but yet don't want to prove your theory. You've engaged in ad hominem and ad numerim against the Southern Baptist Convention, providing unsubstantiated data. You've built the strawmen of explosive expansion of welfare and the need to tax churches, using dicto simpliciter. All of those are also red herrings, and non sequitir to the issue you raised of popular morality; the fact that you employed them implies a petittio principii. You're a natural at this!

Yet its still unclear where you stand on the issue of allowing the people a choice in their own morality. It doesn't sound like you're really pro-choice, just pro-abortion.

[billy_56081]

SOP for a liberal parasites to lie when facts don't support thier agenda.

[powderman]

I think that we all know by now that liberals are great a pulling statistics out of thin air.   Since they don't have a moral compass...to them, lying is no big deal.




IG. Thats pretty well it in a nutshell. The lack of morals and family values is what libs are all about, and what is destroying our great nation. POWDERMAN. 

[Junior1942]

Sure, have your election.  A couple of points: You seem to be saying you want to eliminate the Supreme Court because you don't like one of their decisions.  Didn't you vow to uphold the Constitution?  Also, how do you propose to pay for the sudden huge increase  in individual welfare if you eliminate abortions?  Maybe we could tax churches!

Totally ignored my second paragraph there didn't you. And handily didn't post it in your reply ... my stance on the constitutional argument as it relates to abortion has been delineated here twice and elsewhere numerous times. The Supreme Court itself has been divided on its role in determining moral issues for the people, when the body of law indicates that its a matter for the people. I would very much like SCOTUS to do its job per the Constitution to which I've sworn an oath.

Ways you've dodged the issues so far (i.e. Logical fallacies): You've tried the ad populem, claiming a majority view, but yet don't want to prove your theory. You've engaged in ad hominem and ad numerim against the Southern Baptist Convention, providing unsubstantiated data. You've built the strawmen of explosive expansion of welfare and the need to tax churches, using dicto simpliciter. All of those are also red herrings, and non sequitir to the issue you raised of popular morality; the fact that you employed them implies a petittio principii. You're a natural at this!

Yet its still unclear where you stand on the issue of allowing the people a choice in their own morality. It doesn't sound like you're really pro-choice, just pro-abortion.

Well, TN, to keep myself from going on ad nauseum like some others here, I don't care one way or the other if you bring abortion up for a popular vote.  Good luck trying.  However, I'm sure the abortion clinics in nearby countries would be glad to finance your campaign.

PS: I believe the SCOTUS did its job re the Constitution in Roe vs Wade.

[teamnelson]

Junior, thank you for the succinct reply!

if I had a campaign it would be to restore our constitutional republic, enabling the people to determine whether or not they wanted abortion in their states. I don't know about neighboring countries; I would imagine that of the 50, there'd be a few that would legalize abortion in their states, in which case it wouldn't be necessary to travel outside the US if someone was seeking one. Or if you found yourself in the minority in your state, you wouldn't have to renounce your citizenship, just move to a state in line with your views. And all of that would be the majority determining morality.

Honestly Ive never understood why liberals are opposed to a republic; its the ultimate expression of social darwinism. Each state gets to determine for itself all isues not specifically addressed in the Consitution. So you'd wind up with 50 social experiments, and you'd quickly be able to determine forensically which ones work, and which ones don't. I'd think that would be liberal heaven. Picture it, you'd have several nanny state models, high state taxes, lots of regulation ... I wonder if they'd be economically viable? I wonder if a company would want to operate there? Or hire the product of their public school system? I wonder if they'd soon discover that abortion on demand was socially unhealthy for them. Enough speculation, lets go back to a constitutional republic as it was established, and see what happens? If it turns out the people want abortion, I'll gladly move elsewhere.

[Junior1942]

Let me add to my "succinct" reply.  The Catholic Church is the big pusher to eliminate abortion.  If they succeed, there will be no abortions for any reason.  Soon after their successful ending of abortions, they will end all forms of birth control.  I firmly believe that.

You right wingers have no problem believing some left wingers want more than just registering your guns.  Some, like Nancy Pelosi, want to confiscate your guns.   Why can't you see what the prolifers really want?

[ironglow]

Scootrd & Junior;
          I believe we should be honest her and admit that of the nearly 50 million babies killed...using the very small percentage of doubtful cases as a wedge is a desperate attempt to set up a "straw man".
     As far as the Jewish  couple you mentioned, not being Jewish I cannot counsel them spiritually, but whatever they decide to do, the ramifications would be the same before or after the 1973  Roe V Wade decision.  They face a religious decision rather than a legal one.

I personally am using nothing as a wedge issue here (and kind of take a bit offense to that) .  Now,  if your inferring others may have used this as as wedge issue in the past and not me personally... fine  I get your over arching point.

However,
What my friends are going through is real and was being discussed before this thread even began.
Additionally -  My religion does not condone abortion under any means. But that is my religion not theirs.

My question was merely trying to be a thoughtful one and to think through all the ramifications should abortion become illegal.  Though not my beliefs , if abortion was to become Illegal what recourse do those with different religious beliefs have> and therefore are we not then infringing on there religious freedoms to practice their beliefs and religious laws?

If abortion would be outlawed as you stated  - now the coin would be flipped and now they would be facing a legal issue and not just a religious one.

I don't have the answers for others. I know my beliefs and that's all I am prepared to control. 
I pray for my friends in their troubled situation.

   Scoot;
       By your reply to my previous post to you, I can only believe that you have no knowledge or experience with how such things were handled prior to the fishy 1973 Roe v Wade decision.  Since the full picture can not be comprehended without this  information, there is little we can discuss on the subject.

[powderman]

PS: I believe the SCOTUS did its job re the Constitution in Roe vs Wade.



junior. What could you possibly find in our constitution that would lead you to believe that the constitution gives a female the right to kill her own child??POWDERMAN. 

[ironglow]

Junior says to TeamNelson;

  Well, TN, to keep myself from going on ad nauseum like some others here, I don't care one way or the other if you bring abortion up for a popular vote.  Good luck trying.  However, I'm sure the abortion clinics in nearby countries would be glad to finance your campaign.

PS: I believe the SCOTUS did its job re the Constitution in Roe vs Wade.


   Junior, Junior, Junior...
       You really are a hoot !  Like all liberal/progressives, when you see yourself losing a debate  you resort to character assassination and/or name calling. You imply that those who find disgust with the slaughter of pre-born boys & girls would empower one slaughter house by using their finances to obstruct another ! Did you consider for one moment the utter incongruity of what you were saying..before you posted it ?
  I must give you credit though, you are a bit more innovative than most liberals...they usually resort to calling the debater with the upper hand as a "racist" !   .. But then again, the modern abortion movement gained it's initial impetus from Margaret Sanger's book "Eugenics"...and most of us already know who she planned on eliminating first..

   BTW:  The liberal SCOTUS did a HACK job on the Constitution in 1973.. judge Harry Blackmun really wrung lies from truth when he claimed abortion on the rights of "privacy"..which in itself is not a clearly stated constitutional right.
   Today we have a medical privacy law..one that was enacted without causing the premature death of 50 million boys & girls.
  I don't envy the judge when someday he faces the "judge of the universe".
  See below, the face responsible for the 50 million victims in his "slaughter of the innocents"

[Junior1942]

PS: I believe the SCOTUS did its job re the Constitution in Roe vs Wade.



junior. What could you possibly find in our constitution that would lead you to believe that the constitution gives a female the right to kill her own child??POWDERMAN. 

Nothing gives a female the right to kill her own child.  However, according to the SCOTUS, the Constitution gives her the right to have a fertilized egg removed from her body.  What do you find in the Constitution that gives you the right to kill a mother?

[billy_56081]

Junior, your lies are invalid. Who here has advocated killing the mother? It would be the same as me seeing someone in a burning car with an Obama bumper sticker and me doing nothing. You baby killers sure reach when you try to justify yourselves. Yeah like ever or even 1% of abortions are for anythingelse but birth control. I'll look for ya on the other side, but I highly doubt your kind will be there.

Here is a link for what your sick kind support. http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2011/01/19/philly-doctor-facing-8-counts-of-murder/

http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/news/local_news/abortion-dr.-kermit-gosnell-arrested

Sick stuff, but baby killers are the sickest of sick.

[powderman]

Junior, your lies are invalid. Who here has advocated killing the mother?



BILLY. Nobody has advocated killing the mother, I've come to realize that junior just loves to stir the pot. POWDERMAN. 

[Junior1942]

Junior, your lies are invalid. Who here has advocated killing the mother?



BILLY. Nobody has advocated killing the mother, I've come to realize that junior just loves to stir the pot. POWDERMAN. 

BS.  See "Reply #74."

[billy_56081]

As I said your lies are invalid. You baby killers sure reach to promote your murder. Even if someone advocated no abortion what so ever, they still would not be killers. Now the ones who suck the baby out they are in the act of killing.

So did you look at those links? Read them in depth, that is your ally.

[powderman]

junior. You actually act like you fear that most of the deadly butchery will come to a halt, your post #74 is a good example. You  being that scared that lives would be saved makes me think that maybe you might be a baby butcher yourself, or your livelyhood depends on the death of these children. I'm serious, you actually seem scared that the butchery will come to an end and the indiscrininate killing will stop. Don't even bring up murdering mothers again, nobody said that but you, it just won'y fly. Have you ever seen one of these dead babies??? They have arms, legs, fingers and toes just like you and me. I've made no accusations, nor called you anything, but just trying to figure out why ending the indiscriminate butchery scares you so much. POWDERMAN. 

[Junior1942]

junior. You actually act like you fear that most of the deadly butchery will come to a halt, your post #74 is a good example. You  being that scared that lives would be saved makes me think that maybe you might be a baby butcher yourself, or your livelyhood depends on the death of these children. I'm serious, you actually seem scared that the butchery will come to an end and the indiscrininate killing will stop. Don't even bring up murdering mothers again, nobody said that but you, it just won'y fly. Have you ever seen one of these dead babies??? They have arms, legs, fingers and toes just like you and me. I've made no accusations, nor called you anything, but just trying to figure out why ending the indiscriminate butchery scares you so much. POWDERMAN. 

Again, see reply #74.

[buffermop]

All creatures on this earth are a creation of God. He and  only He has the right to call a life.We cannot play God with human life. The unborn are his most precious creation. We keep on this track and doom is to follow to America as it did to the Roman empire.

[ironglow]

  Before anyone misunderstands, I want to assure them that I am not suggesting the following applies to anyone posting here; but rather it is taken from well published reports .
     So many liberal ideas which are passed into law for "feel good" purposes, because of things unforseen by the sponsoring liberals, turn out to be an unmitigated mess.  Take for instance..'gun buybacks' ;  liberal law buys back guns to be melted down.."no questions asked".  What a dazzling way to get rid of a murder weapon...and get some money for it !
 
        In comes the baby killing industry..what an opportunity for Mr Scumbag !  Here's a common scenario; old Scummy gets his girlfriend's teenage daughter..or his own juvenile daughter pregnant.  Now a lowlife like that doesn't want to face the repercussions for his evil actions, so he further intimidates the child who is already terrified and intimidated.  Then he takes this poor child down to the local abortuary, and maybe for about $1,500, he walks away from his crime..and the abortion industry gets rid of the evidence... If he wishes and is confident in his intimidation, he can send the poor child to school and let the school nurse take her to the slaughter house...and WE can pay for it !  Some teenage girls have had several abortions, but I would rather see child molesters brought to justice and prevented from continuing their evil deeds.
        According to  laws sponsored and passed by liberals, even if the abortionist suspects child molestation..he/she is not allowed to inquire about the situation..nice cover !  Sometimes I really do wonder but what some politicians push certain laws for their own convenience (or cover).
            Anyway, as I see it..a person who fights to keep the practice must admit they are aiding and abetting child molestation..

[ironglow]

  In post #78 Junior says;
   "Nothing gives a female the right to kill her own child.  However, according to the SCOTUS, the Constitution gives her the right to have a fertilized egg removed from her body."


    To that I say...some "fertilized egg"..Junior ! 

http://www.google.com/images?rlz=1T4ADFA_enUS345US345&q=aborted+baby+pictures&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi&biw=1259&bih=776

[powderman]

BUFFERMOP. Good post, I agree.
junior. Click on IGs link and tell me those were not babies. I'm not catholic, and the only thing pro lifers want is for babies to be allowed to live. LOOK AT THE LINK junior, theres your fertilized egg. And you didn't answer, do you have a financial interest  in these baby butcher shops?? POWDERMAN. 

[Junior1942]

....And you didn't answer, do you have a financial interest  in these baby butcher shops?? POWDERMAN. 

Don't you know?  I run a fifty-ho' cathouse outside Las Vegas.  We give volume discounts to Baptist preachers.