Author Topic: building a blakely #10 (Read 1164 times)

rampa room artillery · « **on:** January 24, 2011, 12:55:43 PM »

well I am just finishing up my reseach on the gun. sights are still giving me trouble tho. I am emailed teh tower of london and hope to hear back from them soon on that information. I am buying the steel next week, i am still pricing out a few companies, I will be using hot rolled 1018 which is a standard in the n-ssa. and is approved, hope to order the liner soon, I tryed finding the correct carriage for the gun and I emailed the head reseacher on blakely guns in london and he told me that the correct carriage that was sent to the csa in 1861 is unknown. so my guess is it was not sent with a carriage like most of the blakelys. and I will build a modified first model praire carriage as i believe that is as close to correct as i can get. and I am still working on my praire limber jsut picked up the wheels last weekend. hope to have some pics up soon. as far as i know this will be the first full scale reprodution of this gun.

rick bryan
n-ssa

GGaskill · « **Reply #1 on:** January 24, 2011, 01:44:09 PM »

If you are making the barrel from 1018, why do you need a liner?

rampa room artillery · « **Reply #2 on:** January 24, 2011, 01:53:04 PM »

rifled liner 6 lands and groves saw tooth

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #3 on:** January 24, 2011, 03:39:21 PM »

Obviously I have a lot of respect for 1018, and for the strength of hot rolled steel as well.

My first mortar was hot rolled. Wore out a cutter bit cleaning the scale off it.

guardsgunner · « **Reply #4 on:** January 24, 2011, 05:34:00 PM »

rampa room artillery
The cariage for the #10/s used by the 2nd In. Cav were altered mountian howitzer carriage's.(see O.R.'s). These's had regular Blakaley rifling.
4140 is probely going to be cheaper for the main tube. A liner is not required. Even for the NSSA on a steel tube.
Use the 1018 for the applied trunnion ring.(eaiser to weld)
Glad to see that you are going to build a real gun for the new class rather than going with the pack parrriot that never was.
There was a post war picture of a # 10 off the NSSA BB that I posted some time ago.

rampa room artillery · « **Reply #5 on:** January 26, 2011, 02:54:26 PM »

yes a liner is not required for a steel gun but it is easier to get a rifled liner then the get my tube up north to our guy that does the liners. a 36 steel is cheaper and still plenty stronge, that is why i am going with it. the research is still going on for the carriage tho. i am not sure if i will build a english carriage now. I have a guy in london doing some reseach for me. and i am also working on getting everything together to build a 6 lb blakely 2.5 inch gun also. yes it had 6 land and grove saw tooth / scott triangular rifling.
I plan to build a mountain howitzer after this. I want one of each gun i can build for myself that way when i do go and build one for some one else i know how hard it will be and how to price it. I am glad to see that the board is back up and running. colors suck but i guess we will get use to them.

rick bryan

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #6 on:** January 26, 2011, 03:17:16 PM »

It is indeed good to have the board back up!

The editor is much better too!

A-36 steel?

Here's a link comparing 1018, A-36 and 1144SP. Interesting differences.

http://www.onlinemetals.com/steelguide.cfm

Double D · « **Reply #7 on:** January 26, 2011, 03:40:16 PM »

A36 Mild Steel is a structural steel.

ASTM A36 steel is the most commonly available of the hot-rolled steels. It is generally available in round rod, square bar, rectangle bar, as well as steel shapes such as I-Beams, H-beams, angles, and channels. The hot roll process means that the surface on this steel will be somewhat rough. Note that its yield strength is also significantly less than 1018 - this means that it will bend much more quickly than will 1018. Finally, machining this material is noticeably more difficult than 1018 steel, but the cost is usually significantly lower.

http://www.onlinemetals.com/steelguide.cfm

2 inch diameter
A36 One Ft. (12") Length - $21.47
1018 One Ft. (12") Length - $19.42

Stick with the 1018, its cheaper, stronger and more machineable.

guardsgunner · « **Reply #8 on:** January 26, 2011, 04:13:02 PM »

The rifling on the Blackley 10 is not like the sawtooth that they are putting in Confederate Mt. Rifles. It goes from 1/4 " deep in a sweep to near nothing in 6 portions of the barrel. There is one in the Washington Navy yard, a short trip from the Fort.
Some of the # 10's came to this country without carriages. Other Blakley's also can be seen in the OR's having broken (trails) on regular carriages.

DD- Been awhile but the last steel I bought over 6" 4140 was cheaper than the other 2 in the larger Dia. Don't know why but....

rampa room artillery · « **Reply #9 on:** January 26, 2011, 04:22:30 PM »

well i guess me and the sales woman at richman steel in newport new will have to have a talk about prices. I really want 12L for the nicer finish but i was scared of the price. there where only 4 numebr tens sent to the csa. and yes, the field guns broke the american carriages. that why blakelys where put on a fawcett iron carriage. the only iron carriage i know of is in peru. it was $440 for the A36 steel. but i will go down and price out some more steel. I cant wait to get started.

rick bryan

Double D · « **Reply #10 on:** January 26, 2011, 04:29:21 PM »

The Negative side of 4140 is the problems with welding. If you have some one who knows how to weld 4140, it is preferred.

guardsgunner · « **Reply #11 on:** January 26, 2011, 04:43:41 PM »

DD
No 4140 welding involved. Make the applied trunnion ring out of1018 (4.5 wide or so)and add it to your cheaper 4140 barrel.

I would NOT use any of the leaded (12L14) steels on a full size cannon. Machines nice But, Fractures at unknown points.

Double D · « **Reply #12 on:** January 26, 2011, 05:55:15 PM »

Is that trunnion shrink fitted or something? Using 1018 for that trunnion ring should work.

seacoastartillery · « **Reply #13 on:** January 26, 2011, 06:22:12 PM »

If your method of attachment is to be a shrink fit, you might want to rethink that and go with a neat weld on both sides of the trunnion ring. We have read of minor bore constrictions resulting from overdoing the shrink fit. In one instance the bore collapse was enough to cause jamming of the close fitting, bore riding, projectile when it reached the trunnion ring area during ramming.

A word to the wise should be sufficient here.

Tracy and Mike

GGaskill · « **Reply #14 on:** January 26, 2011, 09:10:00 PM »

The trick with a shrink fit band on the barrel is to ream after the shrink fit is done. That way the compressed metal is removed for the uniform bore needed to rifle. The trunnions need to be watched while turning the barrel but that can be done.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #15 on:** January 27, 2011, 01:14:02 AM »

Quote from: guardsgunner on January 26, 2011, 04:43:41 PM

...
I would NOT use any of the leaded (12L14) steels on a full size cannon. Machines nice But, Fractures at unknown points.

AGREE. DO NOT USE THE LEADED STEELS! The reason they machine so well is that they (the chips when you machine) CRACK EASILY.

rampa room artillery · « **Reply #16 on:** January 27, 2011, 01:59:09 AM »

well, as far as 4140 goes, that strong of steel is needed. remember this is a lined gun. you are shooting a liner. for instance we have a gun in the n-ssa that is fiberglass with a liner. not recomended but works. and is safe. you can take a liner and weld trunions on to it and shoot is safely with the recomended powder loads. what are you guys shooting ?? i hope not pyrodex cannon grade german powder to 1F at the most. is all we shoot. the trunion ring will be shrunk on but also welded. the last thing i need is the shear the trunions off while firing. as for all my fullscale gun i wil be building everything will be finished on the gun before i have them vertically bored. there is a gun drill at a shop in va i will be taking them to.
1018 steel seems to be the way i will go. stay safe and shoot often.

rick bryan

dominick · « **Reply #17 on:** January 27, 2011, 02:25:25 AM »

Some of the barrels I built, I plug welded the trunnion bands and grind smooth.

guardsgunner · « **Reply #18 on:** January 27, 2011, 09:09:36 AM »

rampa room artillery,
The only reason I suggested 4140 was that in Dia. over 6" it was cheaper than 1018. 1018 is fine stuff, but if 4140 is cheaper use it.

rampa room artillery · « **Reply #19 on:** January 27, 2011, 10:01:42 AM »

oh of course I am going to go with the price , money makes the world go around. But prices of steel qualities also depend on suppy and demand. like last time i priced steel 6.75 dia. was cheaper then 6.5 inch. why?? because they make more of it. I am going to sit down with my steel supplier and price out everysize and strength. I will post my findings.
see you guys later.

rick bryan

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #20 on:** January 27, 2011, 10:25:50 AM »

When I was a tooling engineer, the main company that I dealt with for making fixturing and tooling parts gave me their discount with their steel suppliers - substantial because of the quantities they maintained.

Double D · « **Reply #21 on:** January 27, 2011, 10:48:00 AM »

One steel may be cheaper than another but if it cost you more to machine and weld then it isn't really isn't cheaper.

rampa room artillery · « **Reply #22 on:** January 27, 2011, 12:48:05 PM »

I have gotten word that my guy can make my liner correctly with 3 in bore 6 groove hook slant rifling. as the originals are.

rick bryan