Author Topic: 120 gr 7x30 Waters bullets, Why? (Read 2514 times)

hunt4570 · « **on:** January 27, 2011, 01:12:45 PM »

I have a 7x30 Waters barrel coming and will have to work up some loads for it. With what I've been reading it seems that most here prefer the 120 gr bullets over those in the 139-154 gr or heavier range. I'm just wondering why, I can understand that for targets, but why even for deer sized game? Educate me please. I've always used 150 gr NBT's in my 30/30 and liked them fine...the lighter 120's work ok for deer to say maybe 200 yds?

Scott

Pet loads you want to share?

DEACONLLB · « **Reply #1 on:** January 27, 2011, 01:58:00 PM »

That is all that Federal loads and the only company that loads them. That is what I load in mine and I also load the same in 7mm Rem. mag with a reduced load on the mag same specks as the 7x57 using H4895. I shot 2 deer with the 7-30 both shot at about 30 yrds from a ground blind, both dropped in their tracks. I shot 2 with the 7mm Mag reduced loads 120 grn bullet one dropped in her tracks the other ran about 25 yrds and fell dead. You will love the 7-30 mild recoil but hard hitting. A well placed shot will do the job that is the secret.

Deaconllb

shot1 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 27, 2011, 03:49:38 PM »

The main reason that many use the 120 Ballistic tip in 7-30 W in a pistol for deer size game is because it works. With the 120 gr bullets you can get in the 2400 to 2500 fps velocity range where you have enough retained velocity out to 200 or so yards for the lighter construction of the bullet to still expand pretty well. With the heaver bullets that are made for big game at rifle velocities they are constructed with a thicker jacket and you can't get the velocity you need to get them to open up like they should at longer ranges. With the 140 gr bullets your top muzzle velocity is about 2250 fps.

If you want to use the 150 gr 7mm bullets and get reliable expansion you will need to step up to an Encore in 7mm-08. With a 15" barrel you can get 2500 fps.

flipajig · « **Reply #3 on:** January 27, 2011, 04:49:05 PM »

I load and shoot a 7-30 in a 15in Bullberry barrel and im loading a 140grn Nosler BT at 2250 rpm
Acording to Nosler you only need 1600 rpm for the bullet to perform and expand
at 2250 you are good to almost 300 yds now I have not shot anything at that range
my longest shot to date is around 100 no traking job she droped in her tracks.

Shortgun · « **Reply #4 on:** January 27, 2011, 05:02:47 PM »

SD Handgunner · « **Reply #5 on:** January 27, 2011, 05:13:13 PM »

My experience with the 120gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips in the 7-30 Waters has been great. However in my experience you want to keep the impact velocity up around 1750 FPS or else you need to hit bone to get them to expand. When Nosler made the 120gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip they did not produce a new jacket for it. From what I have read on the Nosler Reloading Site the bullet jacket for the 120gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip is the bullet jacket from the 140gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip shortened to make the 120. At the same time they did not make the nose of the jacket thinner thus the reason the 120gr. Nosler Ballistic Tips work so well at a variety of velocities.

Larry

hunt4570 · « **Reply #6 on:** January 27, 2011, 05:37:56 PM »

Well good, I'm hearing good reasoning for both...I, like I said have used the 150 gr NBT's in my 30/30 for years with out an expansion problem, granted not at much farther than 150 yards though, but at less velocities also..so still a case of personal preference maybe?

DANNY-L · « **Reply #7 on:** January 28, 2011, 12:04:51 AM »

I loaded mine with 120gr. sierra PH the doe I took last year was close 35yds or less,perfect shot placement from a 16ft treestand,she dropped quick,got up and ran about 75yds,30seconds later got up again and ran about 100yds downhill in a meadow and died on her feet. By the looks of the exit the bullet expanded perfectly. I think she was just strong willed. The reason I chose the sierra 120gr. was because I had 300 on hand and they shot nice groups. But it still baffles me as to how she got back up after the hit and even more after she got back up again. With me on a woodline covering a meadow I saw it all. When I'm out of these I'll probably go with the 140 nosler bt they work well in my 280,284win and 7mag. My limit for the contender would be 200yds or less.

shot1 · « **Reply #8 on:** January 28, 2011, 02:31:39 AM »

The velocity figures that Nosler gives for it's ballistic tip to expand is IMPACT VELOCITY. From personal experience the 1700 to 1600 fps basement will give you very little expansion unless bone is hit.

Richard P · « **Reply #9 on:** January 28, 2011, 04:53:40 AM »

In discussions such as these it seems to center more on bullet selection than on the cartridge used. The cartridge and barrel are simply a means of launching the bullet. Some are capable of producing more velocity than others.
So in that light what are the favored 7mm bullets mainly for deer to be executed at 100yds and less ? Possibly to include a hog at the same distances.
I am just beginning on an Encore 7-08 15'' and want to hold mv to approx 2100fps.

hunt4570 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 28, 2011, 05:13:02 AM »

And why do you want to hold MV to only 2100 fps??

Junior1942 · « **Reply #11 on:** January 28, 2011, 05:29:32 AM »

Within a month I will do some wet newspaper expansion tests on bullets from my 10" 7mm TCU. I'll test Junior-hollow-pointed 175 gr RN Hornady @ ~ 1700 fps, Hornady 154 gr SP @ ~1800, and maybe 100 gr and 120 gr jacketed bullets, too, and at ~1900 fps. This is for an article and is to see which would work best on deer. I hunted the last 1/2 of this season with the 175 gr hollow-pointed Hornadys, but the deer wouldn't cooperate. I used the hollow point tool for my Forster trimmer.

hunt4570 · « **Reply #12 on:** January 28, 2011, 12:28:02 PM »

Well post the results please...

Junior1942 · « **Reply #13 on:** January 28, 2011, 12:44:13 PM »

Quote from: hunt4570 on January 28, 2011, 12:28:02 PM

Well post the results please...

Will do. I have a huge 25 - 30 gal black plastic trash can, and it will be my newspaper holder. It's about 3 1/2' tall, so I'll have about 3 1/2' of wet newspapers to shoot into. Plan is to start filling it with newspapers in a neat stack inside. Then I can tilt it and shoot into it from off my front porch. I've spent a few days mulling over how to build a board holder for the newspapers, and then I looked out in the yard at the big ol' black trashcan and a lightbulb came on over my head......

Camba · « **Reply #14 on:** January 28, 2011, 05:26:09 PM »

I had used the Sierra 120 gr Pro-hunter in my 7mm-08 model 7 rifle. It had been one shot, one killed and the accuracy was really tight. Prior to using them, I call the Sierra ballistician and asked if that bullet was good for deer hunting. His response was that that is a perfect bullet for deer. It is a tough constructed and had a very good BC. Keep it under 3000 fps and it is great.

Camba

sweetwyominghome · « **Reply #15 on:** January 28, 2011, 05:50:40 PM »

For wet newsprint, make certain you soak it thoroughly for a minimum of 24 hours, and make certain you keep the media packed similarly for each shot.

Keep in mind, too, that densely-packed medium will be much tougher on a bullet and generally create more expansion than flesh and blood. A more representative sample can be gained by positioning the wet newsprint in one inch sections offset by an inch of water and an inch or airspace. Put into a repeating setup will give you results which are very close to what one may expect on game, though there is no true replacement for the real thing.

Years ago, I decided to create such a setup, and while the partitioned sections were a bit tricky to figure out (for me at least as I am not mechanically-inclined), the results offer a rather consistent look at projectile performance and can give one a clearer idea of what to expect on game.

Taken from game/impact vel. app. 2245 fps:

Taken from test medium (TTSX on left & TSX on right):

sweetwyominghome · « **Reply #16 on:** January 28, 2011, 05:56:07 PM »

As to 120 vs. 140s in the Waters, the 120s -- as a rule -- provide greater hydrostatic shock at typical hunting ranges as the bullets are generally of lighter construction and moving a bit faster than the 140s.

There are far too many variables to get into here, but if anyone wants specific bullet info at a specific velocity level, I've run enough of them through various testing media (not to mention an animal or 2 along the way!) over the years to likely have the answer for you. GIve me a day or 2 to respond, however, as my health is poor and I don't always feel up to getting on the computer.

Junior1942 · « **Reply #17 on:** January 29, 2011, 02:23:34 AM »

Quote from: sweetwyominghome on January 28, 2011, 05:50:40 PM

For wet newsprint, make certain you soak it thoroughly for a minimum of 24 hours, and make certain you keep the media packed similarly for each shot.

Keep in mind, too, that densely-packed medium will be much tougher on a bullet and generally create more expansion than flesh and blood. A more representative sample can be gained by positioning the wet newsprint in one inch sections offset by an inch of water and an inch or airspace. Put into a repeating setup will give you results which are very close to what one may expect on game, though there is no true replacement for the real thing.

Years ago, I decided to create such a setup, and while the partitioned sections were a bit tricky to figure out (for me at least as I am not mechanically-inclined), the results offer a rather consistent look at projectile performance and can give one a clearer idea of what to expect on game.

Wet newsprint will work for me as I'm interested in comparitive expansion. I want to hunt with the homemade-hollow pointed 175 gr Hornady RN due to its lower BC. I brush hunt from the ground, so I want a heavier bullet. Max range is circa 100 yards but average range is less than 75 yards. I want a lower BC because a certified fool hunts where I hunt, and he refuses to wear hunter orange. So I want fast bullet drop.

sweetwyominghome · « **Reply #18 on:** January 29, 2011, 09:01:50 AM »

Junior1942 wrote: "Max range is circa 100 yards but average range is less than 75 yards. I want a lower BC because a certified fool hunts where I hunt, and he refuses to wear hunter orange. So I want fast bullet drop."

A lighter 120 will -- as a rule -- give up the ghost faster than a stouter, slower-moving 175 grain bullet, which will plow through more limbs, etc. and keep going. So that really is not "helping" your situation and likely making it worse.

With that being said, there is no substitute for safety and a good backdrop for the bullet to come to rest in.

shot1 · « **Reply #19 on:** January 29, 2011, 11:53:10 AM »

A little phone call to the local game warden, if it is mandatory in your state to wear blaze orange, should change the mind of your certified fool when they get deep into his pocket.

Junior1942 · « **Reply #20 on:** January 29, 2011, 12:41:46 PM »

Dug around in a pile of reloading stuff and found 4 1/2 boxes of Sierra .284" 120 gr Pro Hunter Spitzers. I got another bullet to put through the wet newsprint. My notes show Varget pushing this bullet @ 2005 fps through my 14" 7mm TCU barrel. I should get ~1900 fps through the 10" barrel.

Richard P · « **Reply #21 on:** January 29, 2011, 01:01:10 PM »

....4570.... I'd like to be able to hold the recoil down as much as possible and I feel 2100fps will offer that. If I feel comfortable with more I'll move to it. But, for the initial test I'll try to stay at 2100.

Lawful Larry · « **Reply #22 on:** January 30, 2011, 05:38:34 AM »

I am at a loss to understand why you would go with teh 7-30 waters that normally shoots a smaller bullet if you really want a heavier bullet. You mentioned teh 30-30 and 150 gr. bullets. Why change? I shoot my Winchester '94 in 30-30 win. and love it. It is my primaly deer gun in the brush.

I have taken long shots out to 150 yds with it and taken game. I understand the higher velocity and longer reach of the 7-30 Waters, but am I missing something here?

hunt4570 · « **Reply #23 on:** January 30, 2011, 05:49:32 AM »

<<< I have taken long shots out to 150 yds with it and taken game. I understand the higher velocity and longer reach of the 7-30 Waters, but am I missing something here?>>>

Nope looks like you arent missing anything, you kind of hit the nail on the head..