Author Topic: witch hand gun for me. (Read 2237 times)

10_point · « **on:** January 30, 2011, 02:07:41 PM »

Hello guys, I recently got a job offer in the department of corrections and was advised to get a self defense gun as some of the inmates tend to hold a grudge against CO's once there released. I am getting my CC permit and need advise on a gun. Ideally I would like to stay under $600. I want it to be a strait shooter (unlike my ruger 9mm was) and would like for it to have some curves for looks. I mean I am getting tired of the same ole square L look of hand guns. and I think i want a .40 cal or larger. Any advise would be great.

Hit or Miss · « **Reply #1 on:** January 30, 2011, 02:35:22 PM »

My personal preference is the XD line from Springfield. Service length. A ccw gun is a tool for the most part, now if you are looking for a BBQ gun that's a whole different story!

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 30, 2011, 02:52:19 PM »

I have a Springfield XD in 45 ACP, great gun, also consider a 1911 45 ACP, mine is a Sig GSR Compact with novack night sights. . In my opinion the 45 ACP is one of the best rounds if you are looking for a semi-auto one shot stopper.

Tom W. · « **Reply #3 on:** January 30, 2011, 03:52:37 PM »

Perhaps a Ruger 345?

10_point · « **Reply #4 on:** January 30, 2011, 05:07:33 PM »

ok so I think I like the springfield XD and i am going to go look at one. Witch is better the 4 inch or the 5 inch? I assume the 5 inch barrel will be for accurate right? or I found this one witch has a 4.5 inch barrel. Springfield 45A 4.5 TNS BITONE

Brett · « **Reply #5 on:** January 31, 2011, 02:16:20 AM »

While you are checking out the Springer be sure to take a look at the S&W M&P.40c as well. I did and felt that the S&W was a better fit for me. Smith's free lifetime service policy and being made in America were icing on the cake.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #6 on:** January 31, 2011, 02:37:27 AM »

Quote from: 10_point on January 30, 2011, 05:07:33 PM

ok so I think I like the springfield XD and i am going to go look at one. Witch is better the 4 inch or the 5 inch? I assume the 5 inch barrel will be for accurate right? or I found this one witch has a 4.5 inch barrel. Springfield 45A 4.5 TNS BITONE

For concealed carry the 4 inch, accuracy you will not notice any difference..

1sourdough · « **Reply #7 on:** January 31, 2011, 08:13:25 AM »

How about a Glock 23?

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #8 on:** January 31, 2011, 08:25:37 AM »

Well I would suggest a S&W J frame airweight or a good used 340 PD . If you plan to carry then it should be at all times winter or summer. The J frame is light and easy to tote . You are talking 12-14 oz of gun weight + ammo . A front pocket carry is easy . And it has curves , it has history and it shoots anything that fits and if it dosen't a new round comes up with the next trigger pull. With the 340 PD its 357 mag. which still is number 1 in one shot stops.
NUFF SAID !

The Famous Grouse · « **Reply #9 on:** January 31, 2011, 08:32:48 AM »

Quote from: 10_point on January 30, 2011, 02:07:41 PM

I want it to be a strait shooter (unlike my ruger 9mm was) and would like for it to have some curves for looks. I mean I am getting tired of the same ole square Any advise would be great.

I have to point out that I've never seen a handgun that actually shot crooked. But I've seen a lot of people who couldn't shoot a handgun straight.

It takes a LOT of practice and it takes CONSISTENT practice to become proficient with a handgun. A person's ability to shoot a rifle has no correlation with shooting a handgun well.

With this in mind, have you looked into ammo costs? If you intend to get proficient and stay proficient, the cost factor is not a casual concern. .45 and .40 are both significantly more expensive than 9MM. On average, I'd say at least 25% more. Are you sure you want and can afford the extra expense? Take a gander at what 1000 rounds of each will cost you. Unless you reload and/or you can do a lot of practice with a cheaper .22 handgun of the same type, it's a question worth thinking about.

I think a lot of first time buyers are attracted to the macho factor of a 45 and they tend to justify it by citing the "increased stopping power". The fact of the matter is that a 9 MM has plenty of stopping power at close combat ranges and the lower ammo prices will make it possible to practice more so that a person can place a round where the stopping power does some good.

I'm not against the .45 or .40, I'm just saying think about the total cost scenario before you buy.

Grouse

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #10 on:** January 31, 2011, 10:18:56 AM »

I say the same thing in all of these posts.
Go to a local gun store and pick out three or four guns that you feel meet your needs.
Be they wheel guns or semi autos.
and hold them. Close your eyes and point the gun some place safe in the store (yes close you eyes and pick the gun up and point it) now open your eyes and see if you are looking down the sights.
I really like the idea of the Glock 17 but it does not fit me. I look at the top of the slide and not down the sights. Just the angle of the grip.
When I was picking out my first CCW handgun I had a budget and a holster I was planning on using.
Of the four choices I had picked out. Only one came out of the fanny pack holster and into my hand ready to shoot. it was not the one i wanted but now i am really happy it ended up the way it did

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #11 on:** February 01, 2011, 01:03:55 AM »

Quote from: The Famous Grouse on January 31, 2011, 08:32:48 AM

Quote from: 10_point on January 30, 2011, 02:07:41 PM
I want it to be a strait shooter (unlike my ruger 9mm was) and would like for it to have some curves for looks. I mean I am getting tired of the same ole square Any advise would be great.

I have to point out that I've never seen a handgun that actually shot crooked. But I've seen a lot of people who couldn't shoot a handgun straight.

It takes a LOT of practice and it takes CONSISTENT practice to become proficient with a handgun. A person's ability to shoot a rifle has no correlation with shooting a handgun well.

With this in mind, have you looked into ammo costs? If you intend to get proficient and stay proficient, the cost factor is not a casual concern. .45 and .40 are both significantly more expensive than 9MM. On average, I'd say at least 25% more. Are you sure you want and can afford the extra expense? Take a gander at what 1000 rounds of each will cost you. Unless you reload and/or you can do a lot of practice with a cheaper .22 handgun of the same type, it's a question worth thinking about.

I think a lot of first time buyers are attracted to the macho factor of a 45 and they tend to justify it by citing the "increased stopping power". The fact of the matter is that a 9 MM has plenty of stopping power at close combat ranges and the lower ammo prices will make it possible to practice more so that a person can place a round where the stopping power does some good.

I'm not against the .45 or .40, I'm just saying think about the total cost scenario before you buy.

Grouse

The 45 ACP may cost a little more, but if you have to stop someone, the 45 ACP is one of the top choices and in my opinion, the cost of a few cents is not worth my life.. Just sayin!

The Famous Grouse · « **Reply #12 on:** February 01, 2011, 06:36:17 AM »

Quote from: Redhawk1 on February 01, 2011, 01:03:55 AM

Quote from: The Famous Grouse on January 31, 2011, 08:32:48 AM
Quote from: 10_point on January 30, 2011, 02:07:41 PM
I want it to be a strait shooter (unlike my ruger 9mm was) and would like for it to have some curves for looks. I mean I am getting tired of the same ole square Any advise would be great.

I have to point out that I've never seen a handgun that actually shot crooked. But I've seen a lot of people who couldn't shoot a handgun straight.

It takes a LOT of practice and it takes CONSISTENT practice to become proficient with a handgun. A person's ability to shoot a rifle has no correlation with shooting a handgun well.

With this in mind, have you looked into ammo costs? If you intend to get proficient and stay proficient, the cost factor is not a casual concern. .45 and .40 are both significantly more expensive than 9MM. On average, I'd say at least 25% more. Are you sure you want and can afford the extra expense? Take a gander at what 1000 rounds of each will cost you. Unless you reload and/or you can do a lot of practice with a cheaper .22 handgun of the same type, it's a question worth thinking about.

I think a lot of first time buyers are attracted to the macho factor of a 45 and they tend to justify it by citing the "increased stopping power". The fact of the matter is that a 9 MM has plenty of stopping power at close combat ranges and the lower ammo prices will make it possible to practice more so that a person can place a round where the stopping power does some good.

I'm not against the .45 or .40, I'm just saying think about the total cost scenario before you buy.

Grouse

The 45 ACP may cost a little more, but if you have to stop someone, the 45 ACP is one of the top choices and in my opinion, the cost of a few cents is not worth my life.. Just sayin!

The problem is that it's more than "a few cents". It's a few dollars per box more for .45, and that was my point. In looking at the sporting goods place where I buy my ammo (and these are non-sale prices), the cheapest 9 MM was $10.99 a box. The same brand .45 was $15.99. Obviously, both rounds can be had cheaper on sale, etc, etc, but there is always a price difference. Reloading components are also more expensive for the .45.

It doesn't matter how much theoretical "stopping power" your round has if you can't hit what you're trying to stop And that takes practice, which costs considerably more with a .40 or .45.

My advice was simply to keep the economics in mind when making the choice because for most people finances are not unlimited. This is an aspect that I don't think enough people consider.

Grouse

ourway77 · « **Reply #13 on:** February 01, 2011, 06:54:59 AM »

Reload, Reload, Shoot More, Shoot More. By reloading using cast bullets you will save a bundle, even more if you cast your own. And the more you shoot the better you will get. FBI went to 40MM or 45 Ammo, they have the option to decide what they would like. Baltimore Police 9MM. I would recommend the former not the latter. Lou

Tom W. · « **Reply #14 on:** February 01, 2011, 02:56:31 PM »

I HOPE they don't try the 40mm!

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #15 on:** February 02, 2011, 02:08:55 AM »

40 mm in a holster ouch .

Most of the guns offered will be hard to hide in hot weather , something to consider .

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 02, 2011, 02:51:57 AM »

Quote from: The Famous Grouse on February 01, 2011, 06:36:17 AM

Quote from: Redhawk1 on February 01, 2011, 01:03:55 AM
Quote from: The Famous Grouse on January 31, 2011, 08:32:48 AM
Quote from: 10_point on January 30, 2011, 02:07:41 PM
I want it to be a strait shooter (unlike my ruger 9mm was) and would like for it to have some curves for looks. I mean I am getting tired of the same ole square Any advise would be great.

I have to point out that I've never seen a handgun that actually shot crooked. But I've seen a lot of people who couldn't shoot a handgun straight.

It takes a LOT of practice and it takes CONSISTENT practice to become proficient with a handgun. A person's ability to shoot a rifle has no correlation with shooting a handgun well.

With this in mind, have you looked into ammo costs? If you intend to get proficient and stay proficient, the cost factor is not a casual concern. .45 and .40 are both significantly more expensive than 9MM. On average, I'd say at least 25% more. Are you sure you want and can afford the extra expense? Take a gander at what 1000 rounds of each will cost you. Unless you reload and/or you can do a lot of practice with a cheaper .22 handgun of the same type, it's a question worth thinking about.

I think a lot of first time buyers are attracted to the macho factor of a 45 and they tend to justify it by citing the "increased stopping power". The fact of the matter is that a 9 MM has plenty of stopping power at close combat ranges and the lower ammo prices will make it possible to practice more so that a person can place a round where the stopping power does some good.

I'm not against the .45 or .40, I'm just saying think about the total cost scenario before you buy.

Grouse

The 45 ACP may cost a little more, but if you have to stop someone, the 45 ACP is one of the top choices and in my opinion, the cost of a few cents is not worth my life.. Just sayin!

The problem is that it's more than "a few cents". It's a few dollars per box more for .45, and that was my point. In looking at the sporting goods place where I buy my ammo (and these are non-sale prices), the cheapest 9 MM was $10.99 a box. The same brand .45 was $15.99. Obviously, both rounds can be had cheaper on sale, etc, etc, but there is always a price difference. Reloading components are also more expensive for the .45.

It doesn't matter how much theoretical "stopping power" your round has if you can't hit what you're trying to stop And that takes practice, which costs considerably more with a .40 or .45.

My advice was simply to keep the economics in mind when making the choice because for most people finances are not unlimited. This is an aspect that I don't think enough people consider.

Grouse

A $5.00 difference is only cents when you break it down per box.. As for stopping power and accuracy, that is not a problem. The 45 ACP may have a little more recoil, but anyone worth a darn will shot there guns a lot for practice, no matter the recoil.. If you carry a gun, make sure you are proficient with it, or don't carry at all. Going cheap my cost you your life!

Just so you know, I can shoot my 45 ACP just as accurately as I can my 9 mm, why because I practice with all my guns, and not just once a month or once a year. I practice weekly to stay proficient.

Also, most situation for self defense happens from 7 yard and closer. If you know anything about up close defense, you would know aiming in a lot of cases is not an option. Sure everyone would love to say they would want to stand there and take aim, but in the real world it is more of a point and shoot, hence a bigger caliber for stopping power.

My wife shoots my 45 ACP and is deadly with it. I have thought her self defense shooting at close range, and aiming the gun with the sights was not part of her training. And she is still deadly accurate up close.

People need to know the difference between paper shooting at the range, and self defense shooting at close range.

myronman3 · « **Reply #17 on:** February 02, 2011, 04:00:52 AM »

i carry a glock 23. smaller frame, gun was affordable, parts are readily available and affordable, extra magazines are cheap, caliber is potent, capacity is high, and i can carry it all day without feeling it at the end of the day.
i prefer 45's, or 10mm's, but the guns are either too big for my frame (for concealed carry) or they didnt have the capacity i wanted. i am well aware that most gunfights are 2 or three shot events; that being said, i like having more available if i were to need them.

coyotejoe · « **Reply #18 on:** February 02, 2011, 05:49:45 AM »

Well Mr. 10-Point began this post by saying he was tired of the same ole square L look so what does everyone advise but a Glock or a Glock copy. I'm with you 10-Point, I was tired of that look when it first appeared. That is in fact about my only objection to the Glock or Glock clones. I mostly prefer revolvers and for a carry gun I like the Charter Arms Bulldog in .44 special but if you want an auto I'd suggest the CZ or the EEA copies of the CZ, they have very good ergonomics and a sculptured slide which looks like a handgun more than a hammer.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #19 on:** February 02, 2011, 06:49:08 AM »

I really don't care about the looks, it all about the reliability to me.. If it looks like an L so what!

coyotejoe · « **Reply #20 on:** February 02, 2011, 07:25:09 AM »

It's obvious you don't care about aesthetics or you wouldn't be shooting a Block but "I don't care" doesn't answer the question for a man who specifically stated that he does care.

myronman3 · « **Reply #21 on:** February 02, 2011, 07:50:20 AM »

what is HIS definition of "an L shaped handgun"? that would pretty much fit most any autoloader if you ask me.
guys have shared what works for them and why. if you dont want opinions, dont ask for them.

coyotejoe · « **Reply #22 on:** February 02, 2011, 08:25:48 AM »

Quote from: 10_point on January 30, 2011, 02:07:41 PM

Hello guys, I recently got a job offer in the department of corrections and was advised to get a self defense gun as some of the inmates tend to hold a grudge against CO's once there released. I am getting my CC permit and need advise on a gun. Ideally I would like to stay under $600. I want it to be a strait shooter (unlike my ruger 9mm was) and would like for it to have some curves for looks. I mean I am getting tired of the same ole square L look of hand guns. and I think i want a .40 cal or larger. Any advise would be great.

I guess I just think people should READ the question before answering it!

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #23 on:** February 02, 2011, 09:02:45 AM »

Coyote Joe,
Sorry I can't get past the L shape.
All handguns are pretty much in the shape of a hockey stick.
From the earliest flint and match locks to the latest high tech brand they all have a barrel and an handle at an angle.
OK a few and I mean very few are different.
The Palm gun of the old west with it's circular Body with the barrel and the squeeze trigger.
the US Navy glove gun. where they mounted a 38 Special bang stick to a glove and anyone you punched got a bullet.
The UZi and Mac 10 have more of a T look.
the Mauser Broom handle and tech 9 are more like an F.
A zip gun that is a pipe and does not have a real grip. I guess that makes it an I shape.
and finally all of the james bond type movies where they stick a gun in a gun inside a camera, cell phone, lighter, cane, or breif case.
But even the cane is still L shaped and the guns in the breif case are just a standard gun with a firing mech mounted in the case handle. And none are real accurate or powerful. Imagine trying to hold on to a cell phone that shoots a 44 Mag?
Even the 9mm or 38 special would be hard to aim and hold. Unless you are using the Brick of the 80's
But neat. This is my new I matic phone. It has a camera, phone, 4G and a 6 round mag of 9mm.

Could also give a new meaning to "shooting your mouth off".

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #24 on:** February 02, 2011, 09:09:23 AM »

I believe federal law states a hand gun must look like a gun , There are guns that look like writing pens but to be legal they must bend into an L shape to fire

. I have heard of but not seen a 9mm made to look like a mini maglite , not legal though.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #25 on:** February 02, 2011, 10:29:32 AM »

Quote from: coyotejoe on February 02, 2011, 07:25:09 AM

It's obvious you don't care about aesthetics or you wouldn't be shooting a Block but "I don't care" doesn't answer the question for a man who specifically stated that he does care.

What's your problem Mr. know it all?? Have you seen any of my guns or know what I shoot? I think you have come to a couple of threads just to start crap. Take your attitude some place else.

If you read more than just my last post, you would of seen my other answers to his question.

coyotejoe · « **Reply #26 on:** February 02, 2011, 12:13:05 PM »

I'd just like to see people answer the question asked rather than the usual "I like this", "I shoot that", "I have one of these", none of which are what the fellow is looking for, he state up front that he isn't looking for another square boxy gun and YOU are the one who responded that YOU don't care what a gun looks like. I'm not the one throwing out rude remarks and accusations here.

mcwoodduck · « **Reply #27 on:** February 02, 2011, 01:20:30 PM »

Coyote joe,
mine was said tounge in cheek.
I think we need to make some agreements that we have a wise butt and a scarcasm fonts, size, or colors.
I also find the question goofy. He wants a gun, does not know what he wants and says not the same L shape everyone else has. Well the L shape works so most everyone has gone to it. I think everyone here did not want to tell this guy what I am about to write.
He really needs to look at a larger gun that he can get his hands on and beable to pull it out and point it at his attacker and in a large enough caliber to stop someone from prison.
There is a story in street stoppers where a couple of FBI agents were not able to penetrate the chest cavity of some guy just released from prison in the late 80's or early 90's with issued 10mm. All he did was bench press and his chest mussles took the 10mm hits.
If he has a ex con that has tracked him down or runs into him on the street having a novelty gun is not going to help him. Showing the gun is not going to help him. knowing how to shoot it and what to do if the first rounds do not stop him are going to help him.
The L shape of the SIG (what I like) the Glock, the Beretta, 1911 or other is what works.
If I were this guy I would look at the used shelf of the gun shop for a Glock, SIG, 1911 in the $500 range.
One of the German police Sig P225's called the German P6 in 9mm would be perfect It may be ugly from wearing it but as long as the insides are good it will work. and it is the classic L. While it is only a 9mm it is in the price range. It is a compact gun holding 8 rounds. Good 9mm is efficient at putting holes in bad guys and as we have all said here at some point or another shot placement is what matters. The last one I saw was $460 here in CA.
But good sound gun. So of his $600 he still has $ left over for bullets and range time. If he does not know how to shoot it or want to learn how that Con will take it from him. If that Con has tracked him down or confronts him in the street then he plans on doing harm to him or his family. NO IF ANDS OR BUTS!
But as I said in an earlier post he needs to go to the gun shop and find what fits his hand. While the P225 just fits in my hand and my pinky hits the mag floor plate, he may be larger or smaller and it may not fit him or point where he points. he may also just want a medium or J frame revolver in 3257 mag and master being bale to shoot the 125 grain JHP. I think a 3" Model 65 S&W would another good choice. I would look at the K frame as it takes a lot of ammo and time to shoot the little J frames with full house loads and you need to stay current with it- Monthly trips to the range.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #28 on:** February 02, 2011, 01:29:08 PM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on January 31, 2011, 08:25:37 AM

Well I would suggest a S&W J frame airweight or a good used 340 PD . If you plan to carry then it should be at all times winter or summer. The J frame is light and easy to tote . You are talking 12-14 oz of gun weight + ammo . A front pocket carry is easy . And it has curves , it has history and it shoots anything that fits and if it dosen't a new round comes up with the next trigger pull. With the 340 PD its 357 mag. which still is number 1 in one shot stops.
NUFF SAID !

i carry the 640....357@23 oz ..a little heavy...but i like it

and thats why my kids carry 642....38@ 15 oz

640.....$600
340.....$$700+
642....$450+
63.......$450+ ....22lr

if you have to ask...forget the autos

we also have a 63 smith 22 j-frame....for cheap practice

this is the safest gun you can own
most of the guns you mentioned.......will not be with you if you need it

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #29 on:** February 02, 2011, 04:10:54 PM »

Quote from: coyotejoe on February 02, 2011, 12:13:05 PM

I'd just like to see people answer the question asked rather than the usual "I like this", "I shoot that", "I have one of these", none of which are what the fellow is looking for, he state up front that he isn't looking for another square boxy gun and YOU are the one who responded that YOU don't care what a gun looks like. I'm not the one throwing out rude remarks and accusations here.

Almost all semi auto's look like an L shape, what the heck do people want.. That is just the nature of the beast in semi-auto handguns. And looks in guns are not the deciding factor for most serious people looking for a carry gun, but rather the reliability and function.. Having a cool looking gun is for the movies, real life it is not so.. Why blow smoke up someone back side? As for the guns you mentioned, they fit the L shape as well, so in essence you did not answer his question any better than anyone else here.. So what have you accomplished with your post, and the rest that followed, besides trying to look like a know it all?

I will tell you NOTHING!