Author Topic: 35 Whelen Nosler 225Gr Partition VS Barnes 225Gr TSX? (Read 4292 times)

JesterGrin · « **on:** February 02, 2011, 09:23:23 AM »

I am looking for opinions between these two bullets for a 35 Whelen Bolt rifle with a 1-14 twist and 24 inches long.

What is your opinion of these two bullets as I have read good reports on both and would like to pick one as neither bullet style is cheap lol.

Thank You.

yooper77 · « **Reply #1 on:** February 02, 2011, 10:01:50 AM »

I shoot Nosler 210, 225 & 250 grain Partitions out of my 338-06 A-Square.

Partitions are proven game getters and always exit, plus I don’t hunt on a no-lead california condor range.

yooper77

fatercat · « **Reply #2 on:** February 02, 2011, 12:17:53 PM »

have you thought about yhe accubonds?

the barns are long for weight.

JesterGrin · « **Reply #3 on:** February 02, 2011, 01:44:53 PM »

Sorry to say fatercat no I have not looked at them as of yet. Right now I am trying to do research on the best way to go. Thank You for the info I will look.

roper · « **Reply #4 on:** February 03, 2011, 12:31:17 AM »

I started shooting the Whelen last year and settled on the 225gr Accubond and I'd also shot some TSX and the only difference is the TSX is flat base vs BT for the AB. My barrel is 24" long CM Kreiger.

drdougrx · « **Reply #5 on:** February 03, 2011, 04:19:16 AM »

Currently using SGKs for range shooting. Will be using it later this year on oryx and aoudad in Tx and may switch to ABs....we'll see.....

Barstooler · « **Reply #6 on:** February 03, 2011, 08:14:20 AM »

Quote from: JesterGrin on February 02, 2011, 09:23:23 AM

I am looking for opinions between these two bullets for a 35 Whelen Bolt rifle with a 1-14 twist and 24 inches long.

What is your opinion of these two bullets as I have read good reports on both and would like to pick one as neither bullet style is cheap lol.

Thank You.

My opinion is ::: NEITHER

Why shoot pricey 225gr bullets when you buy standard Hornady and/or Speer 250gr bullets? The 100fps you are getting out of the 225gr vs a 250gr is still not going to transform the Whelen into a 400 yard rifle. The standard 250gr will kill anything the pricey 225gr will...and with more authority. It will smash through shoulders and almost shoot lengthwise through an elk.

I gave away all my 200 and 225 gr bullets long ago

Barstooler

JesterGrin · « **Reply #7 on:** February 03, 2011, 09:26:00 AM »

Barstooler I would not take such a long shot at an animal. Too many variables to have a clean kill. My norm is a limit of 250 yards unless everything is perfect maybe 300 yards.

I am pretty open to bullet types. So what are your thoughts on the Speer VS Hornady? I have had good luck with Hornady in the past.

I would rather not spend $1.OO per bullet if I do not have to lol. As I wish to shoot it not look at it lol. And even though I do re load everytime I pull the trigger I think WOW there goes a $1.25 lol.

Barstooler · « **Reply #8 on:** February 03, 2011, 01:42:50 PM »

Quote from: JesterGrin on February 03, 2011, 09:26:00 AM

Barstooler I would not take such a long shot at an animal. Too many variables to have a clean kill. My norm is a limit of 250 yards unless everything is perfect maybe 300 yards.

I am pretty open to bullet types. So what are your thoughts on the Speer VS Hornady? I have had good luck with Hornady in the past.

I would rather not spend $1.OO per bullet if I do not have to lol. As I wish to shoot it not look at it lol. And even though I do re load everytime I pull the trigger I think WOW there goes a $1.25 lol.

Longest shot I have ever taken with 35 Whelen was about 300 yards so I 100% agree with you as to most suitable range. I have taken 22 deer, 4 elk, and 2 bear with the Whelen and most of those shots were 100 to 150 yards. I started hunting with the Whelen in 1966 before Nosler or Barnes even produced 35 caliber bullet. I tried 200 gr Speer and Hornady and found them to be too "explosive" on game when pushing bullets designed for the 35 Rem to 35 Whelen velocities. I don't like the Sierra 225gr because I just don't trust Sierra bullets on heavy game -- they would probably do OK for deer however. But my GO TO bullet rapidly became the Speer 250 gr SP. It holds together well and in my rifle is more accurate than the Hornady 250 gr. Each rifle will vary as to which it might shoot better but I can't see paying $1 a bullet when both the Speer and Hornady will hold up through elk at Whelen velocities. I don't go to premium bullets in other calibers until I get up around 2900 to 3000 fps so I can't see the point of doing it in the Whelen either.

Barstooler

JesterGrin · « **Reply #9 on:** February 03, 2011, 01:55:58 PM »

BarStooler I did get lucky I think and got a few of the Speer 250Gr Grand Slams but have found out they are no longer made just the 250Gr Hot-Core. I did call Speer to ask what was the difference between them and well I did not get an answer lol.

Barstooler · « **Reply #10 on:** February 03, 2011, 02:34:56 PM »

Just the plain hot cores will work fine. That is the same bullet that Speer introduced in the mid 1960s and the one I have taken most game with. I have never had a lead-core seperation with that bullet.

Now, I also have 250gr Hornady SPs. They still shoot MOA in my rifle (.9 MOA), vs the Speer 250 (.7 to .8 MOA) but since I don't plan on shooting them beyond 300 yards, that is a silly comparison. The Hornady works just fine from a practical standpoint.

Part of it is esthetics. My rifle was made when the 35 Whelen was a true wildcat. It has a rebored military barrel with 1:10 twist and has a very long throat. It is really designed to shoot 275-300 gr bullets. To get good accuracy out of the 250 gr Hornady, I have to seat the bullet so far out that the crimp groove is way outside the mouth of case and it looks like crap. Shoots good but esthetically the Speer looks better because I does not have an exposed crimp groove when reloaded for my rifle.

You are going to push a 250gr bullet about 2400 to 2500 fps and a 225gr bullet will go 2600 to 2700 fps. Inside 300 yards that is not going to impact bullet drop or energy on target in any significant way.
You just don't need premium bullets in the Whelen IMHO.

I also had a 285gr GC mould made for my Whelen by Mountain Molds as a backup. I keep the velocity down to about 2000 fps and that is also a real "thumper."

Barstooler

JesterGrin · « **Reply #11 on:** February 03, 2011, 07:10:26 PM »

Ok Barstooler Speer it is.

And I also have the 358009 285Gr RN/GC.

. I may sight them in after I break the barrel in for some Hog work lol. They just might work lol.

Barstooler · « **Reply #12 on:** February 04, 2011, 12:26:11 PM »

Jester,

I looked for one of those 358009 moulds for one year (eBay, Gunbroker etc.) and never could find one, so I finally gave up and designed my own through Mountain Molds. With pure Lino it pours 270gr with GC and lube, with Lyman #2 it pours about 280gr with GC and lube. My go to load for this is 42 grs of IMR 3031. The "other" powders (4759, 4227 & 4198) work pretty good as well but I like to try and fill the case a little more. Your 1:14 twist should stabalize the 358009.

Like I stated my Whelen is very long throated. The COL "should" be about 3.340 (standard 30-06). With the Speer 250gr seated 2/1000th off the lands my measured Whelen is COL 3.407. That length will not fit into my 1903 magazine so I have to reduce COL to 3.358 to get it to feed. That is a pretty good "jump" but it does not seem to impact accuracy. [All COL measurement made with the Hornady COL gage]

Best load accuracy for my rifle is with the Speer 250gr with 54gr of RL 15, Rem Case, Rem 91/2 primer. Right behind that is 53gr of IMR 4895 (same case and primer). [I know the Speer manual shows 49gr max with 4895 but their #7 manual used to show 57grs as max. My rifle does not produce flat primers until I hit 55grs of 4895 so I reduced it 2 grs off that and get very normal primer indications. I suspect my long throat and seating adds enough to the case capacity to make 53 grs of 4895 a "workable" load. I have not tried to "stretch" the RL 15 loads, because I have shot that powder much less than 4895.] IMRs 4064 and 4320 seem to work well but there is no significant improvement in my rifle over what I was getting with 4895.

With 4895 I never could get "good" accuracy out of the Hornady 250gr RN. Like I stated previously, the Hornady 250gr Spire Point works well. It may be that my long throat is just too much of a "jump" for the RN to produce accuracy in my rifle.

Barstooler

nomosendero · « **Reply #13 on:** February 09, 2011, 01:32:35 AM »

Quote from: drdougrx on February 03, 2011, 04:19:16 AM

Currently using SGKs for range shooting. Will be using it later this year on oryx and aoudad in Tx and may switch to ABs....we'll see.....

Good luck on that hunt!

drdougrx · « **Reply #14 on:** February 09, 2011, 03:10:57 AM »

Thanks Nomo....I'll post when we get back in November. I like the Whalen!!!

Graybeard · « **Reply #15 on:** February 09, 2011, 11:33:26 AM »

The Sierra 225 is a VERY tough bullet. Likely not a good choice on deer only bigger tougher game. I asked them about using it in my .358 JDJ where I could push it to 2300 fps maybe a wee bit more. They advised against it as it is just too heavily constructed for use at that velocity.

I've shot it and the Nosler 225 PT and BT along with it and it is a tougher bullet than either.

drdougrx · « **Reply #16 on:** February 09, 2011, 04:32:25 PM »

No kidd'n GB!!! Interesting! Aoudad can weigh 200+ and oryx 350+, so I guess the sierra will be fine. Nice bullet and a good load!

K-1 · « **Reply #17 on:** February 11, 2011, 07:42:04 AM »

I have used Sierra 225 GK on 3 Moose. Two were mature bulls & the 3rd. was a 3x2. The bulls were hit in the shoulders, the SGK's were recovered under the skin on the off side, they were in perfect mushroom shape. The shot in the small bull was not recovered, it went through the heart & lung area. All 3 were taken around 100 yds. and drooped on the spot. I'm using 59gr. of RL. 15 in a Rem. CDL. I don't think you will have any trouble killing things with it on your trip to Tx.

drdougrx · « **Reply #18 on:** February 11, 2011, 09:50:30 AM »

Thanks K-1,

I'm using 61gr of RL-15 also in a Rem CDL...accurate group but when I went to take the empties out of the loading box, I noticed the primers were a bit backed out....time to relook at this load.

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #19 on:** February 11, 2011, 10:05:06 AM »

Over on the Africa forum, the TSX Barnes bullets had the best penetration of all the other bullets. In their experience the 225 gr TSX penetrated and did as much damage as the heavier 250 gr bullets. The TSX is faster and more accurate for longer ranges. For long range hunting with good penetration and knock down the TSX from their experience was better.

K-1 · « **Reply #20 on:** February 11, 2011, 08:01:57 PM »

Quote from: Dixie Dude on February 11, 2011, 10:05:06 AM

Over on the Africa forum, the TSX Barnes bullets had the best penetration of all the other bullets. In their experience the 225 gr TSX penetrated and did as much damage as the heavier 250 gr bullets. The TSX is faster and more accurate for longer ranges. For long range hunting with good penetration and knock down the TSX from their experience was better.

I had the same prob. with the primers when I was building the load, so backed off to 59gr. I use that load in both guns, I bought a 35 Whe. for my son to use.

Barstooler · « **Reply #21 on:** February 12, 2011, 10:48:45 AM »

Quote from: Dixie Dude on February 11, 2011, 10:05:06 AM

Over on the Africa forum, the TSX Barnes bullets had the best penetration of all the other bullets. In their experience the 225 gr TSX penetrated and did as much damage as the heavier 250 gr bullets. The TSX is faster and more accurate for longer ranges. For long range hunting with good penetration and knock down the TSX from their experience was better.

What longer ranges? Even with 225gr the Whelen is still a 300 yard weapon. I don't get "best accuracy" out of TSX bullets and "as much damage as the heavier 250 gr bullets" equals what? :::: AS MUCH DAMAGE AT TWICE THE COST. Gee that sounds like a real bargain for same performance within 300 yards.

Thank you, but I will just stay with the Speer and Hornady 250grs.

Barstooler

yooper77 · « **Reply #22 on:** February 12, 2011, 11:58:50 AM »

Quote from: Dixie Dude on February 11, 2011, 10:05:06 AM

Over on the Africa forum, the TSX Barnes bullets had the best penetration of all the other bullets. In their experience the 225 gr TSX penetrated and did as much damage as the heavier 250 gr bullets. The TSX is faster and more accurate for longer ranges. For long range hunting with good penetration and knock down the TSX from their experience was better.

In order to achieve deeper penetration you have to give up something. The cost is a smaller wound channel. I will stick to Nosler, Speer and Hornady they simply work at less cost.

yooper77

Barstooler · « **Reply #23 on:** February 12, 2011, 02:50:02 PM »

Quote from: yooper77 on February 12, 2011, 11:58:50 AM

Quote from: Dixie Dude on February 11, 2011, 10:05:06 AM
Over on the Africa forum, the TSX Barnes bullets had the best penetration of all the other bullets. In their experience the 225 gr TSX penetrated and did as much damage as the heavier 250 gr bullets. The TSX is faster and more accurate for longer ranges. For long range hunting with good penetration and knock down the TSX from their experience was better.

In order to achieve deeper penetration you have to give up something. The cost is a smaller wound channel. I will stick to Nosler, Speer and Hornady they simply work at less cost.

yooper77

+ 1

Dixie Dude · « **Reply #24 on:** February 13, 2011, 04:14:58 AM »

http://www.gboreloaded.com/forums/index.php/topic,175919.0.html

I've read somewhere and will try to find it about the .225 35 Whelen TSX. They were getting accuracy and penetration out to beyond 300 yards with a maximum load of RL-15. I think they were seating the bullets long.

Sourdough · « **Reply #25 on:** February 20, 2011, 07:36:19 AM »

I have to say I have never shot Barnes bullets. I shoot Nosler 225s in my .35 Whelens and .350 Rem Mags. I shoot both the Accubond and the Partition. I hunt dangerous game, and can see no reason to experiment when I have a proven performer.

My .35 Whelen dropped a charging Grizzly with the 225gr Nosler Partition at .35 yards, sure made me happy. I've been mauled by a Grizzly once don't ever want that to happen again. I've also helped retrieve the body of a hunter that got stomped by a Bull Moose. I'll stick with my Noslers. Rog Hunter

yooper77 · « **Reply #26 on:** February 20, 2011, 11:39:42 AM »

I have also never used any Barnes bullets and I don’t have a 35 Whelen, but I do like the 35 Whelen. I already own two 338-06 A-Square rifles and have 210, 225 and 250 grain Nosler Partitions, 180 & 225 grain Nosler Accubonds, 180 & 200 grain Nosler Ballistic tips, 225 & 250 grain Hornady Interlocks, 225 grain Speer’s and 215 & 250 grain Sierra’s. I stick to bullets that work and are very affordable.

yooper77

WyoStillhunter · « **Reply #27 on:** March 04, 2011, 06:32:51 PM »

I have used Rem. C-L 200 gr. factory ammo on deer with good results. I took one spike elk and one antelope doe with 225 gr. TBBC in Federal factory load -- perfect, one-shot performance. Otherwise, 250 gr. Speer SP and 250 gr. Hornady Interlock bullets have performed just fine on elk (several) and mountain lion (1) for me.

Like others above, I do not stretch the range on my Whelen. It is a cartridge that is well balanced with 250 gr. cup and core bullets. At MV of 2400 fps (handloads) penetration is great and trajectory is sufficient for good accuracy out to 200 - 250 yards. That will meet all of my needs for Wyoming deer, antelope and elk.

DakotaElkSlayer · « **Reply #28 on:** March 27, 2011, 08:07:18 PM »

Was working up loads the other day in my Whelen and the sweet spot for me was my last load; 60.0gr. of RL15 with a 225 Sierra for 2700fps. This load shot extremely well through my rifle.

Jim