Author Topic: No more 450 (Read 4241 times)

dave hall · « **on:** February 03, 2011, 06:12:11 AM »

I got Marlins new catalog to see the 95GBL and noticed theres not a 450

in any of the Rifles.Looks like it may have gone down the same road as the 480 Ruger.

JesterGrin · « **Reply #1 on:** February 03, 2011, 09:40:58 AM »

Yep the 450 went Bye Bye. They had a few things against them. For one the 450 Case is made just for the 450 so there are no other cases that can be formed into a 450. Plus if you have a Marlin 45-70 it can be loaded to 450 Specs and if you wish to spend the money there are companies that make 45-70 ammo to the same or above what the 450 was.

The advantage of the 450 is it fed a bit slicker due to the case design.

But I really like my Marlin 1895GS in 45-70

I did not see a need to change.

quietman · « **Reply #2 on:** February 03, 2011, 07:30:30 PM »

Between the 444 and the 45/70, the 450 sales were probably drying up too. The 45/70 is definitely the most popular of the 1895's

Swampman · « **Reply #3 on:** February 04, 2011, 12:30:09 AM »

Never understood the need for the .450.

pastorp · « **Reply #4 on:** February 04, 2011, 07:50:54 AM »

I always though the 450 was a answer that lacked a question................

Regards,

1895gunner · « **Reply #5 on:** July 31, 2011, 07:32:01 PM »

Remember need has nothing to do with it. I like my Marlins so I had a "want" for the 450. Already had the 1895G and 444P. As previously stated there isn't any real difference between the 45/70 & 450 in performance.

I like em all!

450

45/70

444

1895gunner

Swampman · « **Reply #6 on:** August 01, 2011, 03:48:34 AM »

If I ran across one really cheap, I might buy it.

temmi · « **Reply #7 on:** August 01, 2011, 07:11:15 AM »

450 M... either you get them or you don't...

I do get them and they are very fine rounds...

Swampman · « **Reply #8 on:** August 01, 2011, 08:19:08 AM »

Yep, exactly like the .45-70 except a lot more expensive to shoot. I get them too.

1895gunner · « **Reply #9 on:** August 01, 2011, 09:48:24 AM »

I've been shooting the 350gr Interlocks but just started reloading the 450 over the weekend. 1st loads were with the same powder as for my 45/70 and same 300gr JHP. Now I've switched over to the 350gr Interlocks. Really like this round - fun to shoot too!

BBF · « **Reply #10 on:** August 01, 2011, 11:38:42 AM »

Quote from: 1895gunner on August 01, 2011, 09:48:24 AM

I've been shooting the 350gr Interlocks but just started reloading the 450 over the weekend. 1st loads were with the same powder as for my 45/70 and same 300gr JHP. Now I've switched over to the 350gr Interlocks. Really like this round - fun to shoot too!

I had one with the ported barrel. Fun to shoot ?? Not with factory loads!

yukondog · « **Reply #11 on:** August 01, 2011, 12:15:18 PM »

I'm like gunner, need has never had anything to do with it, I,m up to 5 different cal. and still growing.

1895gunner · « **Reply #12 on:** August 14, 2011, 05:04:21 AM »

Quote from: scatterbrain on August 01, 2011, 11:38:42 AM

Quote from: 1895gunner on August 01, 2011, 09:48:24 AM
I've been shooting the 350gr Interlocks but just started reloading the 450 over the weekend. 1st loads were with the same powder as for my 45/70 and same 300gr JHP. Now I've switched over to the 350gr Interlocks. Really like this round - fun to shoot too!

I had one with the ported barrel. Fun to shoot ?? Not with factory loads!

I'm guessing that you're not a fan of the most powerful factory made Marlin lever... I love shooting the big bores. I'm at the range every weekend, sometimes both mornings. Here are pics from yesterday morning.

Left to Right on first pic is:

1895M 450
1895G 45/70
444P guess
336D 35 Rem
1894P 44 mag

Like I said. Fun to shoot.

1895gunner

BBF · « **Reply #13 on:** August 14, 2011, 05:49:31 AM »

Years before I had the 450 Marlin my big gun was a Ruger#1 in .375 H&H with an after market porting system. At that time I was living in the Interior of BC. That was fun enough !!

zorba · « **Reply #14 on:** August 23, 2011, 07:16:18 PM »

My opinion is different from that of most traditional .45-70 fans.

I recently sold my Marlin 45-70. I'm sorry to see the .450 go. There is a need for it, and most of the .45-70 hand loaders I know would have been better off with a .450 because they liked to push the limits of the .45-70 in their hand loads. You cannot match the performance of the .450 Marlin when loading a .45-70 and enjoy as large of a safety margin as with the .450.

The .450 has the following three features that make it safer to shoot max. loads with: thicker brass around the head than the .45-70; threads on the barrel and receiver of the .450 are cut differently to make it stronger; barrel, receiver, and bolt made with improved and stronger metallurgy. The .450 rifle combined with the .450 brass is designed to handle about 10,000 psi more pressure than the .45-70 rifle and brass. It was a safer cartridge and rifle at any level of performance.

Most hand loaders I know load the .45-70 to pressures greater than SAAMI recommendations. If you stay within the limits recommended by the major loading manuals for the Marlin .45-70, then you shouldl be fine. But too many shooters are going beyond those limits. If you like to push the .45-70's limits in your Marlin, the .450 brass and rifle can give you the same performance with a greater safety margin.

But the traditionalists never really gave the .450 a chance and killed off a superior product. But the real problem is that Marlin should have redesigned that action for greater strength long ago.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #15 on:** August 24, 2011, 02:16:40 AM »

well ive pushed the limit on 4570 more then most and sure havent been hurt or hurt a marlin doing it. Theres absolutely no real world differnce in the two as to ballistics, brass life, or safety. Either case is plenty strong at the sane limit of 450 pressures. Advantage of a 4570 is brass availability. Advantage to a 450 is how easy rounds go into the gun compared to the 4570 with that honking big rim. Dont laugh. I for many years passed on 450s thinking there was just no need to fool with one. My buddy had his guide gun out one day and after a couple hours of shooting it i was in love. Yes, just because it was hands down easier to load.

pastorp · « **Reply #16 on:** August 24, 2011, 05:35:13 AM »

Lloyd, Your just a "push over" for a new gun.

Any new gun....

Regards,

temmi · « **Reply #17 on:** August 24, 2011, 09:58:38 AM »

I have to admit that I bought my 450M because my son bought one and I fell in love with it.

It always amazes me that the 450M took so much heat from the 45/70 crowd.

One day I will get a 45/70 Marlin Cowboy and then I will learn to hate myself.

Till then It is the 450M for me and it works just fine….

And it cost no more to load than any other rifle I have… other than the 223.

Snake

Swampman · « **Reply #18 on:** August 24, 2011, 10:26:16 AM »

I don't hate the 450M. I just didn't see why we needed another (but more expensive to shoot & hard to find ammo for) .45-70.

Harry Snippe · « **Reply #19 on:** August 24, 2011, 04:53:48 PM »

When I look in the gun safe with the wife , She see's I have more guns than I will ever need.
I tell her this gun is for small game, this one for moose ,while the other for deer , and that one over there is needed for doggin'.
Now alone I look inside that safe and I see, yet a need for one more gun- since there is a spot free yet for something new .
That is How most of us define NEED LOL.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #20 on:** August 26, 2011, 02:52:09 AM »

yes sir! It doesnt take much to justify adding something to the safe. If practicality was really an issue id have an 3006 a 22 and a 12 guage and be done.

Quote from: pastorp on August 24, 2011, 05:35:13 AM

Lloyd, Your just a "push over" for a new gun. Any new gun....

Regards,

mannyrock · « **Reply #21 on:** August 26, 2011, 04:58:39 AM »

Do the fools who bring out these new rifles in new cartridges ever do any market research in advance to try to determine how many they would actually sell. Yes, the .450 has a few technical advantages over its cousins, but not one in a thousand shooters give a darn about them. The .450 is a hairsplitting cartridge, surrounded by very effective cartridges on either side.

The idiots at Marlin who came up with the .450 idea should have figured out that if they had brought out a straight gripped Marlin in .35 Remington, with a 2/3rds length magazine tube, they would probably have sold ten times more rifles.

I guess that their big play was to make most of their money selling the .450 ammo, not the rifles themselves.

What's next? The .31-30, to fit between the .30-30 and .32 Winchester Special? Oh yea, I just got to have one!!! It will fire a 182 grain bullet instead of a 175 grain bullet, and it will be a whole 50 fps faster!!!

Mannyrock

painted horse · « **Reply #22 on:** September 05, 2011, 07:52:18 AM »

We all know why Marlin came out with the 450. It was a safety and convenience issue. Folks that don't handload could have a big bore 45 cal. with the power of a heavy loaded 45-70 in a chambering that would not inadvertently get stuffed into a rifle chambered in 45-70 that wasn't capable of handling it. I'm a little surprised that some bozo hasn't blown up Grandpa's old 19th century 1886 or an old trapdoor with Garrett or Buffalo Bore ammo. (Com'on, you know they're out there ). I only have two 45-70's left, a Miroku 1886 carbine and one of those Buffalo Classics I bought about 10 years ago. Gonna have to put some sights on that thing one of these days to see how it shoots. I wouldn't mind having a 450.

woods · « **Reply #23 on:** September 05, 2011, 12:09:36 PM »

I've been to alot of gun stores and I've never seen a used 450 on the rack yet, so somebody likes them. One of my friends has one in an encore it shoots 1 1/2" groups with a 400 jsp, crony says 2007 fps out of a 24" barrel. Thats better than anything my marlin 45-70 can dish out. But my barrel is only 18" But then again recoil is more in the 450.

woods

Swampman · « **Reply #24 on:** September 05, 2011, 12:12:09 PM »

A local shop had one on the rack for years. It was nice looking. I probably should have bought it for an investment.

temmi · « **Reply #25 on:** September 06, 2011, 12:04:01 PM »

Quote from: painted horse on September 05, 2011, 07:52:18 AM

We all know why Marlin came out with the 450. It was a safety and convenience issue. Folks that don't handload could have a big bore 45 cal. with the power of a heavy loaded 45-70 in a chambering that would not inadvertently get stuffed into a rifle chambered in 45-70 that wasn't capable of handling it. I'm a little surprised that some bozo hasn't blown up Grandpa's old 19th century 1886 or an old trapdoor with Garrett or Buffalo Bore ammo. (Com'on, you know they're out there ). I only have two 45-70's left, a Miroku 1886 carbine and one of those Buffalo Classics I bought about 10 years ago. Gonna have to put some sights on that thing one of these days to see how it shoots. I wouldn't mind having a 450.

The main reason I had my son buy a 450 was just that.

Any gun which can fire a 450 can handle a 450… We did not need to ask if this load was safe in this gun.

I always worried that my son and some buddy from college may swap some ammo and things would go south.

All that said, I was disappointed in the lack of interest the ammo manufactures took in the cartridge and in the loads provided by the bullet and powder manufactures although Speer and Hornady and to a lesser extent Nosler have some good loads.

Unlike many others I believe that if you don’t handload you will not be happy with the 450.

the 450 has done all I have ask it to do and it has done it well. It like the 480 Ruger were just niche rounds in a small market.

I still believe they are fine rounds that the manufactures failed to properly market.

KAYR1 · « **Reply #26 on:** September 12, 2011, 03:48:41 PM »

I have bought a .450 Guide Gun the first year out. I have killed my biggest NY buck, and my first black bear with it. I have found it to be a very powerful, quick-handling rifle, and accurate to boot. I have lots of fond memories with it. I didnt handload when I bought it, but began soon after. I have noticed that brass has been harder and harder to find as of late, and expensive! I guess I saw it coming, but it's sad to see. In retrospect, it probably would have made more sense to go with a 45-70. From a personal perspective, though, I will always have a soft spot in my heart for the .450.

1895gunner · « **Reply #27 on:** June 09, 2012, 11:14:00 AM »

I just received my 2nd 1895M, ported 450 (the one without the scope). If I could afford it I'd buy another. I have another 444P on layway also. I still don't get what you' all have against the 450 or factory ported Marlins in general. All of these are ported.

In order as shown:

1895M
1895M
1895G
1895GS
444P

1895gunner

Swampman · « **Reply #28 on:** June 09, 2012, 01:48:40 PM »

The ported guns are so loud I just can't shoot them even with hearing protection. The .450 is the equal of the .45-70 but it's more expensive to shoot and they will stop making brass for it.

45-70.gov · « **Reply #29 on:** June 09, 2012, 02:39:03 PM »

since you have scopes
just cut of the sights and ports

my 45-70 is 16 inches factory made