Author Topic: Which is best? Scope or no scope....  (Read 1890 times)

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Offline Ol BW

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Which is best? Scope or no scope....
« on: February 03, 2011, 03:17:21 PM »
I have a revolver I am considering  putting a scope on.  I expect close shots, and have thought about a red dot.  Anybody have any  preferences?  Scope?  Iron sites?  Pros? Cons?  I don't want to shell out the dough and find out I'm not happy because I didn't anticipate a problem, but don't want to miss out on a deer by not being prepared.   

Offline mbopp

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Re: Which is best? Scope or no scope....
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2011, 03:37:25 PM »
I've had a Leupold 2X scope, and tube and open style red dots on my 14" Contender. YMMV but I prefer the open style red dot. My Bushnell Holosight gets swapped between the Contender and 22 pistol. Since it's no longer made the Mueller Reflex sight looks promising.
Another option on a revolver may be a ghost ring rear sight.
Whatever you get - practice, practice, practice.
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Offline Flynmoose

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Re: Which is best? Scope or no scope....
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2011, 03:43:46 PM »
The best way to tell if a scope or red dot works is to shoot one
of each before you spend the money. If nothing else a good gun
store should have one or two you could at least look through.
I find the red dot to be quicker to aquire the target with than
a scope. If you have plenty of time to aim, I like a scope.
FM
Dear God please protect our troops, especially the snipers.

Offline Flynmoose

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Re: Which is best? Scope or no scope....
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2011, 03:45:13 PM »
OOPS! Forgot my manners, WELCOME to GBO!!
FM
Dear God please protect our troops, especially the snipers.

Offline Ol BW

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Re: Which is best? Scope or no scope....
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2011, 03:50:27 PM »
Thanks.  Ive lurked around here alot and gleaned some good info...

Offline Hit or Miss

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Re: Which is best? Scope or no scope....
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2011, 04:14:07 PM »
Out to about 50 or 60 yards a red dot is a good choice.  I shot NRA action pistol with one on a 586 Smith for many years and found the Holosight to be very good.  The only issue is whether to leave it on when sitting in a blind or wait until you see something then turn it on.  I feel a scope is a better choice for shots at longer distances.
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Offline Redhawk1

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Re: Which is best? Scope or no scope....
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2011, 05:13:46 PM »
I have been handgun hunting for over 35 years, personally I either like open sights or a red-dot.. Open sights for up close work out to 35 yards and a red-dot to 75 yards..  That is the fun of handgun hunting, up close and personal.. Go out and shot them all, and see which one works best for you.. Quick target acquisition goes to open sights and red-dot. 

I have shot many handguns with scopes, I just don't like searching for my target, and I don't like the black out in the scope..  Just my humble opinion and experience!
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Offline xphunter

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Re: Which is best? Scope or no scope....
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2011, 06:27:25 PM »
What would be your likely distance when hunting?
E

I have a revolver I am considering  putting a scope on.  I expect close shots, and have thought about a red dot.  Anybody have any  preferences?  Scope?  Iron sites?  Pros? Cons?  I don't want to shell out the dough and find out I'm not happy because I didn't anticipate a problem, but don't want to miss out on a deer by not being prepared.
Ernie
"If you think you are perfect, just try walking on water!"

Offline mjbskwim

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Re: Which is best? Scope or no scope....
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2011, 06:50:30 PM »
I don't know your age,but I'm 53 and I need the scope.My eyes don't like to adjust to the three points very quickly.
I just bought a 44 barrel for my contender,with open sites,I'll try it as is first to see if I do OK.If not I'll have it tapped for a scope.

A guy asked me years ago why I wanted a scope for a 22.
I said I just can't see that good any more

Offline nickE10mm

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Re: Which is best? Scope or no scope....
« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2011, 02:19:02 AM »
I have a revolver I am considering  putting a scope on.  I expect close shots, and have thought about a red dot.  Anybody have any  preferences?  Scope?  Iron sites?  Pros? Cons?  I don't want to shell out the dough and find out I'm not happy because I didn't anticipate a problem, but don't want to miss out on a deer by not being prepared.

I think it all depends on your hunting style.  If you like to post up in a treestand and have longer shots to take, then a scope or red dot MIGHT benefit you, HOWEVER, I like to get as close as I can with handguns and hunt a lot like a bowhunter.  Rarely do any of my shots exceed 40yards or so.  The two deer I've gotten with handguns were both with an open sighted 10mm.  I shot my .44 magnum into an INCH at 25 yards with open sights.  I thought the weight of the scope, coupled with its awkwardness almost negated the point of HAVING a handgun. 

If you practice with irons you can do just as well out to maybe 40 yards.  Farther than that you MAYYY see a benefit to a scope/dot but it will also make closer (more common) shots more difficult.  Then again, if you aren't practiced up at longer ranges, the scope won't help you at all.

My vote (unless you have bad eyesight) would be open sights. 

Offline Ol BW

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Re: Which is best? Scope or no scope....
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2011, 08:57:45 AM »
XPHunter, I plan on close shots within 50 yrds.  I am using a S&W 686 357 mag. with a 6" bbl.  I know most people say I need the Super Duper Lead Shooter that will stop a freight train at 50 paces to kill even the smallest deer, but it is what I have and I am prepared to suffer the consequences.  The reason I that I have thought about something other than open sights is that most people say that accuracy is a must when your using a 357 for deer.  I feel like if using any kind of alternative sight system that would give me better sighting quicker without undue weight and size, it would be worth it.  But if it tends to negate the reason for having a handgun in the first place... well that is why I am asking people who have already been through this.

Any information anyone has will be appreciated, thank you all.

Offline Redhawk1

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Re: Which is best? Scope or no scope....
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2011, 09:00:25 AM »
The 357 Mag will do a number on a deer, I know I have kill a bunch of them with one.. Shot placement is it.
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Offline xphunter

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Re: Which is best? Scope or no scope....
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2011, 09:31:05 AM »
If you don't have vision problems or can shoot irons in using field rests to put it in minute of deer at 50 yards or under, stay with the irons IMO
Ernie
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Offline Ol BW

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Re: Which is best? Scope or no scope....
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2011, 09:36:16 AM »
So basically, the only way a scope or something other than iron sites would be worth it, would be if I was shooting beyond 50 yds.

Redhawk 1 what is the range I could expect to be successful with a 357 in your opinion?

Offline nickE10mm

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Re: Which is best? Scope or no scope....
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2011, 09:51:10 AM »
XPHunter, I plan on close shots within 50 yrds.  I am using a S&W 686 357 mag. with a 6" bbl.  I know most people say I need the Super Duper Lead Shooter that will stop a freight train at 50 paces to kill even the smallest deer, but it is what I have and I am prepared to suffer the consequences.  The reason I that I have thought about something other than open sights is that most people say that accuracy is a must when your using a 357 for deer.  I feel like if using any kind of alternative sight system that would give me better sighting quicker without undue weight and size, it would be worth it.  But if it tends to negate the reason for having a handgun in the first place... well that is why I am asking people who have already been through this.

Any information anyone has will be appreciated, thank you all.

Keep in mind that, with the .357, my reasons are slightly different for not using a scope.  The .357's max effective range isn't as far as a .44 magnum and a scope only makes it easier to accidentally take shots at OVER that effective range.  To me, the irons keep me in line as to how far I should be shooting with that caliber. 

A lean, trim red dot on a .357 (with no magnification) might be a neat idea but, then again, irons work just fine.  Spend the money on ammo to practice with?


Offline xphunter

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Re: Which is best? Scope or no scope....
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2011, 10:03:31 AM »
A scope is easier for me to be precise, at 50 or even at 100 yards versus irons.  There are folks you are very proficient with irons past 50 yards on game.
You gave 50 yards as the max distance, so that is why I used that distance.  I would use a dot scope or a 2x scope when hunting at 50 yards or under if it was me.  That is just me though.  I have precision side to me, even when I am using a revolver.
Ernie

So basically, the only way a scope or something other than iron sites would be worth it, would be if I was shooting beyond 50 yds.

Ernie
"If you think you are perfect, just try walking on water!"

Offline Ol BW

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Re: Which is best? Scope or no scope....
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2011, 10:12:44 AM »
You guys have excellent points, and thank you for your opinions.  I have yet to have the chance to actually use this gun on game.  I do like the fact that it is alot easier to carry a pistol rather than a rifle in the woods.  I do not think it will be a problem to get close for a shot where I hunt, thus the reason I am leaning more towards a red dot with no magnification or iron sites.  Ya'll have given me a lot of food for thought!

Offline nickE10mm

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Re: Which is best? Scope or no scope....
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2011, 10:19:01 AM »

I think there has been lots of good discussion and good responses overall.

I think you will be well served by this suggestion:  START with irons.... practice a lot.  If you just can't get the accuracy you are wanting at the max range you would like to shoot at, then and only then, look at optics.

I have noticed that most handgun hunters prefer irons.  (That is a general statement from my personal observations, so take it with a grain of salt).

Offline tguil

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Re: Which is best? Scope or no scope....
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2011, 05:31:57 PM »
Been back and forth on this myself.  I have a 68-year-old eyes. I've been hunting with a handgun for the past 25 years.  I sill prefer close shots with iron sights. Two reasons. 1)Quicker acquisition of the target under crummy weather conditions..rain, snow etc.  2) Anything other than iron sights on a handgun just don't "look right".  I do have HiVis sights on my hunting handguns.  Makes a big difference

Tom

Offline ole 5 hole group

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Re: Which is best? Scope or no scope....
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2011, 10:00:04 PM »
Here’s my $0.02 worth.  If you possess adequate arm strength and the eyesight to shoot your revolver accurately for 5-consectively shots within 20 seconds at 25 yards you probably don’t “need” to look at optics for hunting.  If however, you just want them or don’t possess the arm strength or eyesight to shoot those “small” groups anymore, then optics can be the answer for most handgun hunters/shooters.

What the dot or X-hair does, is take away the need for proper sight alignment – you no longer have to concentrate on that front sight making sure you have equal space on both sides of that front sight and square it off horizontally with the rear.  With the dot, you just put it on your target; hold it while you squeeze the shot off and the bullet will hit pretty close to your aiming point.  Jerk the trigger and all bets are off.

I don’t like a scope on a handgun because of the weight and it just doesn’t look “natural” to me.  The reflex sight doesn’t look natural either but not quite as bad as the ultradot or scope and it weighs under an ounce, so the weight is right for my tastes.  The ragged hole rear sight is an aperture and is very fast and accurate but again, you have to concentrate a little on that front sight to be on the money.     

Last year (2010) I finally purchased a reflex sight and I now know I should have purchased it sooner – I had gone to the ragged hole rear sight with my Rugers and BFR's previously with the hi-viz front sight and that was a great improvement for me over standard  open sights but the red dot is better yet.  There are several great sights on the market but I choose the Leupold DeltaPoint as the Delta is 7.5MOA, so it’s fast coming on target and I use the tip of the delta as my aiming point.  I feel it’s as accurate as a 2X scope.  Takes a lot of practice to be able to bring the revolver up and have the delta right there – but after a couple of weeks of steady work you will get the “hang” of it.  I can shoot the delta point out past 100 yards as well as I can a 2X scope – I’ve got a 2.5X8 Leupold that I use for load development, as for pin point accuracy you can’t beat magnification off a rest and 8X gets the job done at ranges of 50 yards to whatever.

As for minute of deer with a 357 Mag or a 500 Mag – a dot will give it to you as far out as you care to practice.  A 100 yard shot with a 357 on deer is very doable with the dot or scope – all you have to do is place the shot with a good constructed bullet and follow the blood trail – no different than a 25 yard shot, except for the fact it’ll take a whole lot more practice time to place that shot well at extended range.       

Offline bilmac

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Re: Which is best? Scope or no scope....
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2011, 12:22:43 AM »
I don't have much experience handgun hunting, but I used a 30-30 contender once. When I started hunting antelope with it it had a 2X scope on it and after a few missed chances because it took too long to find anything through the scope, I took it off, and killed the next pronghorn at 60-75 yards with no problem. I probably could have done better with the scope if I had practiced more with it under real life shooting scenerios, I just shot it from the bench and declared it good to go.

Offline Redhawk1

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Re: Which is best? Scope or no scope....
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2011, 02:11:34 AM »
So basically, the only way a scope or something other than iron sites would be worth it, would be if I was shooting beyond 50 yds.

Redhawk 1 what is the range I could expect to be successful with a 357 in your opinion?

50 yards would be my max for the 357 Mag, I try to keep it at 35 to 40 to be on  the safe side. Almost every deer I took with my 357 Mag was within the 35 yards range, and one or two may have been closed to 50 yards..  I like to use a good hard cast bullet, and shoot for the lungs and heart area.  I try to tuck the bullet right behind the shoulder as close to the shoulder as possible. That has worked for my on all the deer I have taken.  Keep the bullet weight to 158 to 180 gr.
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Offline Ol BW

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Re: Which is best? Scope or no scope....
« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2011, 05:37:59 AM »
Guys this is some really good info and experience!  Thanks! 

Anybody else have $0.02 worth?  Throw it in!  I am sure there are others out there that are facing the same question, and plenty more that have already "been there done that". 

Offline Mikey

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Re: Which is best? Scope or no scope....
« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2011, 02:40:55 PM »
For what you want to do the 357 using even the 'lowly' Remington factory 158 gn load is easily adequate to 50 yds.  Redhawk1 is right on. 

My eyes are almost as old as yours and I shoot a 3.5" N-frame 357 with open sights to 50 yds, with my glasses on; with or without glasses I cannot get a good handle on scope use.  I have shot scoped revolvers but the lengthy eye relief of a revolver scope is unnatural to me and I'm not comfortable trying to focus one, so I practice with the open sights with one preferred load at 25 and 50 yds until I am comfortable with my performance. 

One of our posters used the 357 extensively to harvest his Whitetail and, from a 6" revolver the Remington factory 158 gn loads or handloaded equivalent, had a high percentage of passthroughs on chest shots, right where Redhawk1 suggested.

Your best optics are your eyeballs.  They pick up movement, distinguish color and pattern.  Your 686 has good clear sights and you can shoot factory loads all day long from a strong revolver like that one and you can really get comfortable shooting with it and getting to know its handling characteristics, and therein lays your preparation.......  jmtcw.

Offline BIG Dog454

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Re: Which is best? Scope or no scope....
« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2011, 05:47:38 AM »
For myself a 1X red dot is the way to go, I tried a 2.5X scope one time and missed a nice buck because I coulden't  get him in the sights.  since, I killed a good number of deer with a 1X red dot out to 80 yards (paced off).
BD