So...what do "conservatives" think should be done about health care?

[guzzijohn]

Since most here think that Obama's health care plan sucks what do you all suggest? I do not see letting the health care insurance system carry on business as usual or none of us will be able to afford it soon. It always out paces inflation by a wide margin (Okay, many claim that Obama's plan will be even less affordable, maybe so, so what is the alternative). What about insuring people with preexisting conditions or our they just s#&% out of luck? Almost no one can afford private health insurance without being in a group plan. IMHO at this time health insurance companies are loose cannons that are royally doing it to us. The only suggestions I have heard on this board is "let family take care of them" (very unrealistic), get rid the the illegals and we won't have a health care problem (ya right), or turn away those that cannot pay (not a very Christian attitude). I want to hear about some real plans that do provide health care for all of us, is affordable and accessible and is acceptable to "conservatives", or is there no such animal?
GuzziJohn

[dukkillr]

My plan would be to create two tiers of healthcare in the US.  Mostly business as usual for those with health insurance.  I would establish tort reforms, probably in terms of limits on pain and suffering and specific courts and jury pools, but honestly, that's always been a red herring in the discussion anyway.

For those W/O health insurance I'd go back to the old county hospital system.  I'd ramp up production of the DO schools and staff these places with the cheapest doctors, nurses, FMGs and equipment I could find.  I'd establish minimal baseline care protocols and provide them with near immunity if they follow those standards.  I would charge people a reasonable cash rate at these hospitals and expect them to pay what they could. 

Here's the thing the ideologues can't admit:  we already have socialized medicine.  A dirtball with no insurance has a heart attack who do you think pays that now?  Think carefully.  So if we can get said dirtball into a clinic once every year and keep him from having that heart attack I think it would actually be cheaper that it is now.  A non-compliant diabetic can cost those of us with insurance tens or even hundreds of thousands of dollars when they show up with a blue leg and heart failure.  That could have been avoided with much cheaper treatment, but would not fall under EMTALA. 

I'm intellecutally honest enough to admit that there would be two tiers of care... and I'm ok with that.

[Gary G]

The price of a new and better computer goes down.
The price of my health care goes up.

Guess which one the government is always involved in?

[jimster]

I'm for anything logical that does not make things worse (which this pile of regulations does) and for people actually reading what they legislate (which they don't)...this health care plan actually takes a lot of what was wrong and amplifies it, but what did we expect from a corrupt congress, and to top that off Obama signed without reading it either.  Would be nice if it was consitutional enough to not raise a stink as well.  For those Americans that care about such things.   

Actually, if we stopped sending multi billions of our dollars to other countries, and added in all the many years of earmarks and cut government in half, we could have simply bought 30 million people health care policies and been done with it, but I guess that is way to simple eh? Things are purposely made complicated because of the corruption within our government, and that is very expensive in itself.  What gets me is hearing people say "OK, what's the answer then?" when they know fully well how corrupt everything is and how bloated our government has become...but somehow that doesn't enter into the picture for a fix...when in reality, it is THE FIX.  Fixing health care would be a piece of cake without our government being boated and corrupt...when we figure that out, a lot of things will also be fixed besides health care as well.  First thing we need to realize, is our government is the problem, they are unable to act logically, unable to read their own corrupt legislation, and unable to un-do the massive damage they have caused by passing it. They are the root of the problem.  Therefore, they can't be the answer can they?  Least not until they are cleaned up and cut back and put in their place.  We can do fine after that happens, not before.

[Gary G]

The price of a new and better computer goes down.
The price of my health care goes up.

Guess which one the government is always involved in?

Competition brings prices down while product is improved. Companies use the power of government to stifle competition. This is called "crony capitalism", but is not really capitalism. It is interventionism. It started with the railroads late in the 19th century and now is prevalent in most industries. The pharmaceutical companies as well as insurers use the government to prevent and stifle competition and you get a an inferior product at a higher cost. Technology companies have not yet captured the government thus the products improve and the prices fall as a result of competition. So don't ask "what should the government do?", but ask what the government has no business doing.

[briarpatch]

Ignorant people think this system from hell is for them. That the sun will shine on their ass from now on with no worries.
This is for the elite to extract from you your wages and your children's wages. Look who is exempt. Why? Look at over 2,500 pages. Why? Look who forced it through with a 51 majority. A dam denunciation of the CONSTITUTION. Where was the 2/3rd needed? We were helpless as we watched them pull this off. They and their buddies profitted to the tune of billions.
Its not about your health its about money, money, money, power, power, power.
If you want a conspiracy watch them pull this off as we have no recourse.
If your ox is in the ditch you support it even though you know its wrong. 
Ten years my -----

[mcwoodduck]

Since most here think that Obama's health care plan sucks what do you all suggest? I do not see letting the health care insurance system carry on business as usual or none of us will be able to afford it soon. It always out paces inflation by a wide margin (Okay, many claim that Obama's plan will be even less affordable, maybe so, so what is the alternative). What about insuring people with preexisting conditions or our they just s#&% out of luck? Almost no one can afford private health insurance without being in a group plan. IMHO at this time health insurance companies are loose cannons that are royally doing it to us. The only suggestions I have heard on this board is "let family take care of them" (very unrealistic), get rid the the illegals and we won't have a health care problem (ya right), or turn away those that cannot pay (not a very Christian attitude). I want to hear about some real plans that do provide health care for all of us, is affordable and accessible and is acceptable to "conservatives", or is there no such animal?
GuzziJohn

The same moron that caused these problems Ted Kennedy with the HMO and PPO law he wrote is the one that tried to fix it with the Idea of Obama care.
But back to your question.
This is insurance.  Plane and sysmple.  You have insurance on your house, your stuff, and your car.  Depending on the risks and what coverage you want is how much the premium is going to be.
If you are a speeder and have 1 fewer point that you loose your license then you are going to pay more than some one that does not have a ticket on their record.  Period.
You coverage is mostly to cover a problem- accident - your fault or not
Now if you are asking your auto insurance to start covering all of your oil changes, tires, and other maintence then the cost for your insurance is going to go up.  We have the same problem with Health insurance.  In the race to put out the best product for the lowest price some of the insurance companies offered more and more services.
The problem came when the customers started to demand more services for low or no cost increases.
Some how you do not have a problem with the insurance companies having to give things away.
I am sure you are the first to complain if the boss asks you to work over time for no pay.  Or have your customers demand more from you for no additional costs.
But we ask the Hospitals to treat people with out payments and no contingancy to get those payments.  We have millions abusing the system that are driving up the costs for others.
What i would like to see if the Medical savings plans and catastrophic insurance plans. 
Insure your self against big medical problems (organ failure, cancer, viral, ect) and you pay for your standard health care out of the saving plan or your pocket. 
But bankrupting the best health care system in the world to cover a few hundred thousand people that are on the pre existing condition ban (many if they change plans or get group can be covered) others do not want to be covered - why buy insurance if you don't need to?
I think we need to look at the health care plans and figure out what we are willing to self insure against and what we want to have covered.
On your car you ding a bumber- do you take it to the auto body shop and pay the deductible, see if you can pay cash an hopefully get under the deductible, or take care of it your self and buy the parts needed and bolt them on your self.
You  or you kid cut your hand and you look, is it bad enough where I need to go to the doctor.  Can I take care of it my self?
The Problem with you liberals is none of you have grown up and you are looking for the government to take the place of your parents and take care of you.  Or you are a unch a racists and you think the other down trodden people need to be taken care of.  basicly you are asking someone to give you Prime rib, instead of hamburger and you wanting to pay for a dirty water hot dog or have someone else pay for it.  And instead of writting a law to cover the people that have a prexisisting condition you want us all to have crappy care.

[mcwoodduck]

Briarpatch...I think you are absolutley correct. The recent HC corporate insurance-governmnet laison bill is a complete sham and fraud. The entire bill could be written in 30 pages or less. BTW, it was Reagan that profitized the American Healthcare system creating a capital market out of citizen's health,,,before him it was non-profit system which worked rather well. Just give us the HC that Boehner, Bachmann, and Giffords have....just that simple. Essentially, the market HC system that Reagan initiated is a form of bondage and HC usury, actually no different than the usury of the current banking system. All of this, of course, was forbidden by you know who..!


TM7
Why give us, why not give them the same system they wanted to MAKE us take?
We should have a problem when congress makes a law for us and then exempts themselves from it and creates their own platinum plated plan.  If the plan is so good why are they not going to it?  If Social Security is great why do they have a different plan and exempt from that system?

.

[Pat/Rick]

 The gov't does not have the Constitutional authority to provide health care . There is NO Constitutional authority for many things they have messed up already like education, batfe, irs and many other things that they have meddled in. Want health care? Work for it. When the mortician gets more clients than the Drs. the Drs. will lower their rates. Socialism is NOT Freedom. Its dependance.

[lakota]

I want healthcare similar to what Gabby Giffords and John "Americans don't want Healthcare" Boehner, and Michele "Death Panel" Bachmann have.


TM7
.

Oh you mean the same healthcare that Nancy Pelosi and company passed a law ensuring that they could keep while at the same time subjecting the rest of us to Obamantion care?

[billy_56081]

I have health care pretty good stuff too. I work for mine. Here's a tip, get a job.

[Gary G]

I want healthcare similar to what Gabby Giffords and John "Americans don't want Healthcare" Boehner, and Michele "Death Panel" Bachmann have.


TM7
.

Oh you mean the same healthcare that Nancy Pelosi and company passed a law ensuring that they could keep while at the same time subjecting the rest of us to Obamantion care?

Since we don't have other people to pay for it like they do, we probably can't afford it. 

[nomosendero]

I want healthcare similar to what Gabby Giffords and John "Americans don't want Healthcare" Boehner, and Michele "Death Panel" Bachmann have.


TM7
.

Oh you mean the same healthcare that Nancy Pelosi and company passed a law ensuring that they could keep while at the same time subjecting the rest of us to Obamantion care?

Since we don't have other people to pay for it like they do, we probably can't afford it. 

Yea, that was humorus, no critisism of those who actually set up that program

[Empty Quiver]

There needs to be a way for the patient to opt out of defensive medicine. The doctor is liable to run more and more expensive tests simply because he is not willing to take any chance of miss diagnosing a common cold. 

There needs to be a way to keep ambulance chasing attorneys out of the medical industry. the fact you were miss diagnosed or a misstake was made in your treatment does not mean that you AND your attorney have hit the Powerball. Yes you should be made whole and your attorney does not work for free. Punitive damages should be so rare they make the national news.

Lets be honest we are paying for medicare, medicaide, and every other medi out there. One way or another we are paying for it. Just take it out of my check at gun point, be an honest enough rat bastard politician, and take it at gun point outta my check. Then, let me find my own doctor to do my own procedure at my own expense. Don't tell me who I can see a and when and for what reason. Do not back door me with cost shifting shenanigans. Paying doctors a percentage of the cost of treatment, forcing them to overcharge the rest of the community to recoup is WRONG.

If you are at the doctor on my dime guess what, you gotta wait till I get done with him. You are NOT entitled, period end of story.

People are not dying in the streets waiting on healthcare. I drive all over this country daily, big cities right down town, Chicago, Detroit, St. Louis, Kansas City, Mpls. St. Paul.  All times of day and night I'm on the streets, one dead body, one. In fifteen years I have seen one along the road. This poor lady was obviously a murder victim.

Losing everything you have worked for due to illness is bad, I'm sorry. You are not entitled, to keeping everything you worked for. If having all your stuff is very important your priority should be health care insurance, not owning a home and automobile. After the insurance is covered start accumulating your wealth.  Or, be honest about your feelings on the subject and hold me at gunpoint and take my wallet. Face to face like a man rob me and laugh at me in the street. You are not entitled to the fruits of my labor. You are not slave owners taking my labor from me for your own benefit.

[ihookem]

 We ain't seen nothin yet, just the tip of the iceburg. My insurance went from 252 a month to 657 for the same plan. I had the agent call and they lowered it to 450 dollars. It almost doubled. This is my own plan that I pay for myself. No company help. I can say there is no way more will have health insurance if this keeps up. Private insurance is a thing of the past if Obama care becomes reality.

[magooch]

People keep referring to the health-care that our Congress critters enjoy.  There might be some misunderstanding of what they get.  They get a choice of plans like a lot of people who work for private enterprise.  Yes, we pay the cost, just like we pay their salaries, because they work for us ... err--they are employed by us.  When some say they want the same kind of plan, I suspect what they really are saying is that they would like the taxpayers to pay for it.

The truth of the matter is that there is no really good answer for everybody.  Pesonally I belong to an HMO and it works really well.  The good part is that only members can use the clinic and they have their own hospitals that only members can use.  In a non-socialistic country, that works pretty well, but it leaves out folks who for one reason, or another can't, or won't pay the price of admission.

In a strictly self responsible society, those who can't provide for themselves will either perish, or have to rely on charity.  That is as it should be, but for better, or worse, our society is past that and I doubt there is any turning back. 

The best we can probably hope for is that those of us who have a plan that is working for us and that we are satisfied with, will be able to keep it.  Those who are not so fortunate, or have chosen not to be responsible, might have to hope for a plan that covers the big things, but leaves the everyday stuff up to the individual.  Maybe the Medical Savings Plan should be better known.

Medicaid, probably won't go away, but it should be drastically revised to get rid of all the waste, fraud and abuse.

[mauser98us]

The reason health care is gotten so expensive in because of massive GOVERNMENT involvement, which leftists love. Part of the problem with the shooting here in Tucson is because in the late sixties and early seventies LEFTISTS had most of the state insane asylums closed,it violated rights. Now the sick aimlessly wander the streets. The Tucson college district could not report on the shooters weird behavior due to the fear of lawsuits. If they were able to do so,and LEO could have got involved,he would not have been able to pass a background check. Good going LEFTISTS.Problems with liberals is they have stage one thinking,what feels good right now,they never think of the ramifications of what they are doing down the road.Also most lawyers generally are leftists, they are the biggest SPECIAL INTEREST group supporting democrats.Funny when demos scream Republican special interest,they forget about  lawyers, unions and big money busineses on their side.

[DDZ]

The reason health care is gotten so expensive in because of massive GOVERNMENT involvement

I feel this is the one and only reason HC is so expensive. It isn't the insurance companies fault. It sure is easy for liberals and government to blame everything on insurance companies, when most of the reason that things are screwed up is because of liberals and government. They are a company like any other company. Their purpose is to make money. You want to fix things, get government the heck out, and that has to do with everything, not just HC.
Ok let me hear the old worn out liberal line "what about the military"

It would help tremendously if we would quit voting for liberal wecanfixeverything socialists. Of coarse that will never happen.

[mauser98us]

The military and border control issues are the main thing the Gov't is taxed with. The govt has done pretty good with the military, the border speaks for itself

[Junior1942]

Question: So...what do "conservatives" think should be done about health care? 

Answer: Either have insurance or money to pay for your healthcare or go home and die.

[jimster]

Question: So...what do "conservatives" think should be done about health care? 

Answer: Either have insurance or money to pay for your healthcare or go home and die.

You read all these posts, different ideas, and causes, and possible fixes...and came up with that?

Wow....pretty deep Junior.  You qualify for a job in Congress.  They don't read anything either I hear.

[dukkillr]

Question: So...what do "conservatives" think should be done about health care? 

Answer: Either have insurance or money to pay for your healthcare or go home and die.

You read all these posts, different ideas, and causes, and possible fixes...and came up with that?

Wow....pretty deep Junior.  You qualify for a job in Congress.  They don't read anything either I hear.

To be fair to him, most of the comment above are not actually ideas for healthcare so much as a regurgitation of talking points.  But I offered an idea, as did a few others.  The truth is that many here just can't bring them to say that their answer really is to let the poor go home and die.  Not saying that's right or wrong, but that is the unsaid opinion of many.

[teamnelson]

I've seen some different models around the world that all seem to share pieces of the solution.

In many parts of the world, non-profit charitable hospitals/medical care providers operate on a cash basis, usually with ample donations via various charitable organizations. They're not always first class top notch, but for the guy with no insurance and no other means, its a place to go. I see enough ads around here for St. Judes which focuses on Cancer, and the Shriner's have taken up the cause of children and burn victims.

I think the 2 tier system would be a for-profit system paid for by private insurance for most salaried job holders or any who could afford it, as one tier. For that to work effectively would need some legal reforms as mentioned, and some separation of medicine and state. The 2nd tier, which I believe is perfectly economically feasible in this country given the outpouring of donations in the wake of Katrina and Haiti, etc. would be a charity based, non-profit health care system for the uninsured, or those whose financial straits can't support the other tier. Tax breaks for corporate and individual donations in the form of time or money would be the only government involvement I would see there. And all of it would be provided after signing a waiver in order to protect them from frivolous legal costs. Cash basis, or volunteer hours as credit to co-pay. Oddly enough I've seen just that at work in Djibouti of all things - $20 US or work a few hours as a groundskeeper, guard, or janitor, and you've got your copay. I've also had the single best dental work of my life at a clinic in Nairobi, for $50. World class dentist, with cutting edge materials and equipment - cost of living aside, he told me his profit wasn't hampered by layers of regulation which is why he moved his practice from South Africa to Nairobi. Doing medicine is not as expensive as some would think from a simple manpower and materials perspective; its the insurance and regulatory requirements, which the non-profits didn't have to meet even before Reagan, that make it so expensive.

I think that avoids putting Government in the unconstitutional position of either mandating interstate commerce, or raising taxes to provide a service that is not a government responsibility. It also allows for those people with a genuine concern for the downtrodden to either put their money with their mouth is, or go out and participate. I would also not be surprised to see corporate-charitable partnerships for community health projects like immunizations, drug trials, etc. As a conservative, I believe you can harness the energy of the people without taking taxes or violating the constitution, and wind up with an even better solution than the government could ever provide.

[Mohawk]

Making it 100 percent optional would be a good start. I used to work in an ER. Some folks insist on clogging up the ER's with non-emergencies. Mostly a child coughing or runny nose. Forget giving them OTC meds, which was the normal result anyway, they would just waste tax dollars to no end. Waste, waste, waste...... I had a mentally ill person one night I had to handcuff because he tried to put his head through a window. But of course, people were far ahead of him in "line" for reasons that were not emergencies. The taxpayers get hit monetarily anyway. If a person is illegal, they pay NO income tax. But they USE taxes to live(Extensively). Health care is not the problem . Its folks not paying their way. Can you imagin the Trillions of dollars if they income taxed non-citizens the way citizens are taxed? Sales tax states historically do better that income tax states for a reason. Better yet, have a federal sales tax on EVERYTHING to help split the bill. If you don't pay income tax then you pay $6 for a gallon of milk. I appreciate the folks trying to be legalized Americans. But those who operate under the radar are leaches in income tax states. I know it varies who pays state income tax but fed income tax is a NO. Too many fingers in the pie with no bakers around.....

[mauser98us]

I don't have a problem spending a little extra for health care for those who can't afford it. Not for the ones who DON'T WANT to afford it. I would do this under the pretext of GOV'T getting completely out of health care business,let the private sector handle it,much the way they do when I give money or time for charity.It's amazing we survived as a nation before GOV'T got involved with health care.If they quit giving sevices and welfare for folks in this country illegally,we could afford for those down on their luck.

[magooch]

If it were easy and cheap, it would already be done.  The ingredient that must remain, no matter what system, or systems are adopted is competition.

[guzzijohn]

As can be seen here there are no easy answers. It is much easier to pick apart someones plan (Obamas) than to come up with viable alternative plans. I find it interesting that some (not all) of the more "vocal" self proclaimed conservatives on this board are not even making an attempt to come up with viable suggestions or are just making more snide remarks and not offering anything of substance. Junior may have been correct that their idea of health care is "Either have insurance or money to pay for your healthcare or go home and die." It also appears to me that some of you are just fine with letting the current insurance industry continue to soak us while they make out like legal bandits. Sad.
GuzziJohn

[beerbelly]

It is not about health care. We have the greatest health care in the world! It is about who is going to pay for your health care! I think that should be you. No one should be able to force you to buy it. If you don't want it  fine, but when you get sick don't expect me to pay for it! And yes if you will not take care of yourself go home and die. I could care less!

[mcwoodduck]

Question: So...what do "conservatives" think should be done about health care? 

Answer: Either have insurance or money to pay for your healthcare or go home and die.

You read all these posts, different ideas, and causes, and possible fixes...and came up with that?

Wow....pretty deep Junior.  You qualify for a job in Congress.  They don't read anything either I hear.

To be fair to him, most of the comment above are not actually ideas for healthcare so much as a regurgitation of talking points.  But I offered an idea, as did a few others.  The truth is that many here just can't bring them to say that their answer really is to let the poor go home and die.  Not saying that's right or wrong, but that is the unsaid opinion of many.

Not saying that at all.  There are already safeguards in place for them to get care.  the problem comes when people take advantage of the system.  Not having health care  insurance because the debt is not collectable and needs to be charged to those that do have it.  This is why an asprin or box of tissues cost $30 in the hospital. 

[Dixie Dude]

TM7 said the insurance companies have been deregulated.  I don't think so.  We have 50 different BC/BS's in America as well as 50 different United Health cares.  Now if they are allowed to cross state lines, this cuts their paperwork drastically, thus the rates go down.  Also to compete against each other for various types of care.

My doctor pays $2,300 a month in mal-practice insurance.  He said if they passed the million dollar award limit, it would be cut in half, thus his rates. 

I think however, the pre-existing condition should be allowed to carry to new insurance customers or transfered from one brand to another for coverage. 

I think small coops of insurance should be allowed, for instance if you own a dry cleaners, and you only have 5 employees, your business should be able to join a small business coop to purchase insurance as a large group. 

I think people should be required to buy a minimum insurance if they use a hospital.  They can be exempt if they want to be but they will have to pay a doctor for service not requiring hospitalization.  For instance, if they don't have any insurance, and they are able bodied, and they need a hospital, they should be required to buy it to pay for the hospital bill, and they have to keep it until the bill is paid in full. 

85% of those uninsured were under 30 and had jobs that offered insurance, but they elected not to buy it.  Whose fault it that. 

Another thing, we need  to get some factories back.  They always provided good insurance for their employees, until they moved overseas.