Author Topic: So...what do "conservatives" think should be done about health care?  (Read 13563 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Swampman

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16518
  • Gender: Male
Re: So...what do "conservatives" think should be done about health care?
« Reply #30 on: February 07, 2011, 07:18:14 AM »
Let those who can afford health care have it, and let those who cannot afford it do without.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline lakota

  • Trade Count: (26)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3472
  • Gender: Male
Re: So...what do "conservatives" think should be done about health care?
« Reply #31 on: February 07, 2011, 08:20:01 AM »
I dont want government involved in my healthcare. They are either unable or unwilling to do much if anything at all right.
Hi NSA! Can you see how many fingers I am holding up?

Offline SHOOTALL

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23836
Re: So...what do "conservatives" think should be done about health care?
« Reply #32 on: February 07, 2011, 08:25:47 AM »
To be free we need to live free and die free . The idea of govt. taking from the worker and giving to the non worker ( one that could work) is not freedom.
Dukkiller has best advice if we decide to give up more freedom !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline dukkillr

  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3428
    • The Daily Limit
Re: So...what do "conservatives" think should be done about health care?
« Reply #33 on: February 07, 2011, 09:55:53 AM »
It is not about health care. We have the greatest health care in the world! It is about who is going to pay for your health care! I think that should be you. No one should be able to force you to buy it. If you don't want it  fine, but when you get sick don't expect me to pay for it! And yes if you will not take care of yourself go home and die. I could care less!
I agree.  I actually wish we could choose to opt out of all social programs.  I'd give up my future right to Social Security if I could just opt out of the system and manage my own retirement funds. 

But I also think any potential solution must be one that is realistically possible.  I suggest that it would be impossible in the current American voting climate to repeal EMTALA, MEDICAID, subsidized clinics and simply let people without insurance die on the steps outside the ER.  It should be about freedom and personal responsibility, and risk/reward analysis, but it's not, or rather, it can't be.

Offline SHOOTALL

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23836
Re: So...what do "conservatives" think should be done about health care?
« Reply #34 on: February 07, 2011, 10:18:29 AM »
 What should be done about health care ? I would ask before or after we get the rest of our ills fixed ? Big govt has caused out economy, , schools and every other concern in the way we live to go down hill. We won't fix anything until we fix the source of the problem.
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline teamnelson

  • Trade Count: (30)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4487
  • Gender: Male
Re: So...what do "conservatives" think should be done about health care?
« Reply #35 on: February 07, 2011, 11:39:10 AM »
What should be done about health care ? I would ask before or after we get the rest of our ills fixed ? Big govt has caused out economy, , schools and every other concern in the way we live to go down hill. We won't fix anything until we fix the source of the problem.

That's a fact! We're not talking monopoly $; the US govt is not too big too fail. And if it fails catastropically, our ability to sustain current commitments not to mention any future "investments" all fail with it.

Our citizens are our national resource, so their health is of vital concern. Government cannot provide all of it, and shouldn't even try. Government's role in our health is constitutionally limited to our national security, and the rule of law to protect us from harm from one another. Beyond that, Government has engaged in some regulatory activity to protect our health via the EPA, and FDA. But that coupled with everything else our Government is doing has us upside down in our debt. I say we first cut alot of excess from the BUDGET. Meanwhile, reduce our debt as rapidly as possible. So that we can focus our government on priorities, which ought to include some limited look at HC reform that does not violate liberty or put us right back where we are.

I proposed freeing up the non-profit/charitable (faith based or otherwise) sector to help solve the problem of the uninsured, because I believe in Americans and their willingness to help out. That costs our government nothing, and will in fact free it up to focus on the other problems. Would that be satisfactory for our liberal friends?
held fast

Offline mcwoodduck

  • Trade Count: (11)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7983
  • Gender: Male
Re: So...what do "conservatives" think should be done about health care?
« Reply #36 on: February 07, 2011, 01:17:45 PM »
What I would like to know is when they made the OBAMA care bill,
they never looked at costs, they looked at outcome.  that out come is federal system similar to Canada or Cuba where costs are certainly a concern. The resources are given to the young adults and the very young and the very old are cost effectived out of the system. Everyone is treated equal, unless they can add a wing on to the hospital.
If the goal was to make healthcare affordable for 95% of the people and cover the 5% than are not able to be covered or can not afford coverage, then they failed.  This law is designed to make many more uninsured, strap them to their current employer if they want to keep the current system and it raises costs dramaticly.

Offline Pat/Rick

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1935
Re: So...what do "conservatives" think should be done about health care?
« Reply #37 on: February 07, 2011, 02:38:25 PM »
The gooberment messed up the industry with the HMO act of 1972. Then the years folowing they had to listen to the masses complain that they didn't cover "X" procedure. Now the gooberment is wanting to get further involved to attempt to fix what they screwed up in the first place.

  Anybody stop to think that health care wouldn't be so expensive if a Dr wasn't spending up to one third of their gross on malpractice insurance? (They also have to carry their nurses).

 Does anybody here think that medical care would be a bit cheaper, if WE didn't have to help defray the costs that the illegals are incuring?

Why is it illegal for us to import cheaper but same drugs? because American drug companies sell meds to other nations cheaper so they don't manufacture "knock offs". The drug expense is then left to America to absorb and most of that cost is for that new wonder drugs research. Once again WE incure that expense.

Yeah, I believe that our medical system is broke, right along with other national operating systems. But more of the same gooberment interferance is not magically going to make a differance.

Offline yellowtail3

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5664
  • Gender: Male
  • Oh father of the four winds, fill my sails!
Re: So...what do "conservatives" think should be done about health care?
« Reply #38 on: February 07, 2011, 07:13:06 PM »
I don't know what is to be done, but something should be. I think many who dismiss the idea of health care reform have never paid for health insurance wholly out of their own pocket. If you've got a family it'll make your mortgage seem small, unless you've got a mansion.
Jesus said we should treat other as we'd want to be treated... and he didn't qualify that by their party affiliation, race, or even if they're of diff religion.

Offline Dixie Dude

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4129
  • Gender: Male
Re: So...what do "conservatives" think should be done about health care?
« Reply #39 on: February 08, 2011, 01:01:12 AM »
It is my opinion that when it was legislated, absolutely NONE of the Republican ideas were put into the bill.  The bill also included about 1,000 other things that weren't even releated to health care.  If crossing state lines and allowing competition among the providers, and having tort reform limiting lawsuits helps, these are Republican ideas that should at least be tried.  Getting the illegals out of the country would also help.  Every little thing we can do to cut costs without raising taxes should be tried first. 

Offline Swampman

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16518
  • Gender: Male
Re: So...what do "conservatives" think should be done about health care?
« Reply #40 on: February 08, 2011, 02:28:12 AM »
"a wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government, and this is necessary to close the circle of our felicities" ~ Thomas Jefferson ~
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline Dixie Dude

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4129
  • Gender: Male
Re: So...what do "conservatives" think should be done about health care?
« Reply #41 on: February 08, 2011, 05:05:00 AM »
Funny how 75% of Americans had PRIVATE health insurance in 1960.  Then in the mid-1960's with Medicare and Medicaid, this covered the poor and retired.  I think what happened, people wanted more benefits in the 1970's and 80's plus medical care became more sophistiated with more electronic devices and more anti-biotics being invented, more studies being made for various diseases, costs began to go up.  I heard Pat Robertson on TV in the 80's say that if AIDS wasn't quarinteened and stopped in it's tracks early on, that it would cause health care to skyrocket.  Preventable disease from what I read is 85% of health care costs, heart disease, diabetes, sexually transmitted diseases, lung cancer, etc.  Who's fault is that?  50,000 people a year die in auto accidents in which at least 50% are from drunk driving, others injured which ties up health care.  Who's fault is that?  If the government is going to get involved, maybe they should provide immunizations and anti-biotics, let people buy insurance for the rest.   Would that be cheaper?  This would cover the prevention side. 

Offline Pat/Rick

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1935
Re: So...what do "conservatives" think should be done about health care?
« Reply #42 on: February 08, 2011, 06:56:09 AM »
"a wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government, and this is necessary to close the circle of our felicities" ~ Thomas Jefferson ~

The first part of that statement creates a problem for contemporary times. Don't think the modern US, has ever seen "a wise and frugal gov't"

Offline Dixie Dude

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4129
  • Gender: Male
Re: So...what do "conservatives" think should be done about health care?
« Reply #43 on: February 08, 2011, 08:43:25 AM »
The federal budget has been in the black twice during my lifetime.  Once in the 1950's under Eisenhower we spent less than was collected in taxes.  Then again when Newt Gingrich had congress balance the budget during the mid-90's up until 9-11.  We were on track to pay off the national debt by 2010-2012.  Now the national debt is so big (around $14-15 trillion) there is no end in sight to pay it off.  Both times we either had a strong Republican president or good leadership in congress.  The only time the country was never in debt and had no national debt was during Andrew Jackson's administration. 

Offline lgm270

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1862
Re: So...what do "conservatives" think should be done about health care?
« Reply #44 on: February 09, 2011, 05:00:26 AM »
There are 30 million illegal aliens in the US.  Under US law, it is a crime to deny them healthcare. The result is that they have bankrupted dozens of hospitals and created a huge upward demand for healthcare,  for which they pay nothing.

The first thing to do about healthcare, is TO DEPORT 30 MILLION ILLEGAL ALIEN PARASITES WHO SUCK UP RESOURCES  AND CONTRIBUTE NOTHING.  Every single illegal alien represents a stolen job, stolen hospital bed, stolen classroom and other tax funded benefits stolen by these blood suckers from American citizens. 

Offline Swampman

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (44)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16518
  • Gender: Male
Re: So...what do "conservatives" think should be done about health care?
« Reply #45 on: February 09, 2011, 05:20:47 AM »
Most illegals pay taxes like the rest of us except they use false SSNs.......fact.

Nobody should get free health care......period.
"Brother, you say there is but one way to worship and serve the Great Spirit. If there is but one religion, why do you white people differ so much about it? Why not all agreed, as you can all read the Book?" Sogoyewapha, "Red Jacket" - Senaca

1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing  1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~

Offline SHOOTALL

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 23836
Re: So...what do "conservatives" think should be done about health care?
« Reply #46 on: February 09, 2011, 07:36:52 AM »
OK liberals you want to know - Go into areas with a high wealfare draw and locate kids in schools that show high IQ's . Educate these kids free of charge all the way thru. medical school . In return they must work at a fair wage in a hospital located near to the areas or cities where there are poor who have no HC insurance. Also build hospitals in these areas and train others on wealfare and pay them a fair wage over what they get on wealfare . After a agreeded these trained people could move on to the private system and more would be moved up. Run the programs like the VA or such.
We could also do the same thing with other public needs .
The people who have good HC can keep it with out govt interference.
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline mcwoodduck

  • Trade Count: (11)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7983
  • Gender: Male
Re: So...what do "conservatives" think should be done about health care?
« Reply #47 on: February 09, 2011, 08:20:56 AM »
I don't know what is to be done, but something should be. I think many who dismiss the idea of health care reform have never paid for health insurance wholly out of their own pocket. If you've got a family it'll make your mortgage seem small, unless you've got a mansion.
I think, that is what we are saying.
The health care bill had nothing to do with costs.  The whole bill did everything to drive up costs with a goal of ending private health care.
If they look at costs and make some of the changes that will get rid of the state line monopolies, allow for choosing the plans you want, and allowing more people to self insure (pay more per visit at the doctors but cut your premiums in 1/2)
After all we insure our cars for the limits and deductables we need. we get life insurance for the life we have.  But we want health insurance to cover everything.

Offline mcwoodduck

  • Trade Count: (11)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7983
  • Gender: Male
Re: So...what do "conservatives" think should be done about health care?
« Reply #48 on: February 09, 2011, 08:30:41 AM »
Most illegals pay taxes like the rest of us except they use false SSNs.......fact.

Nobody should get free health care......period.
And the false use of those SSN's cause the people who's numbers thay use great problems with the IRS.  Huge fines, hunge intrest on money they did not earn.
Anything for free is either worthless or the extreme low cost is going to drive demand through the roof and no one will have care due to the choking of the system for every little sniffle and boo boo.

Offline scootrd

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2745
Re: So...what do "conservatives" think should be done about health care?
« Reply #49 on: February 09, 2011, 06:21:32 PM »
It's interesting to me that only 16 Republicans stepped up to the challenge and opted not to take Federal subsidized Healthcare by Uncle Sam (us) and shopped out on the open market like the rest of us. They quickly found out how expensive it was for John "Q" public and some had a hard time obtaining because of pre-existing conditions.

Unlike most of Representative Joe Walsh's other 15 congressional colleagues who are also turning down government benefits, the Illinois freshman did not have alternative health insurance, so he says he bought his own insurance coverage, which has a $5,000 deductible. Walsh says his wife has a pre-existing condition, so insurance would not cover her. Therefore, he says they will pay for the treatment for her ailment, which he declined to disclose, out of pocket. "If I would of taken the congressional plan, I'd taken the group policy, and my wife would have been covered and life would have been a heck of a lot easier. But this is the pledge that I made, it's something my wife and I have thought long and hard about, and it's a principle, and it's important to both of us," Walsh said.

Representative Bobby Schilling, another GOP freshman from Illinois, is also declining coverage from the Federal Employees Health Benefit plan out of principle, saying he too ran on that promise. Unlike Walsh, Schilling already has insurance that he will keep through his pizza parlor business back home.

Representative Richard Nugent, R-Florida, has COBRA with the help of his state government, since he is a retired sheriff.
Others Like Representative Bill Johnson, R-Ohio, are veterans and already receive government benefits through the Veterans Affairs department. And others like Representative Mike Kelly, R-Pennsylvania, and Representative Daniel Webster, R-Florida, are not accepting the congressional health care benefit because they already have insurance through their own businesses back home. But that decision is costing people like Webster a lot more money. According to his chief of staff, Webster pays $1,200 a month for health insurance for his family, and would only be paying about $400 monthly if he accepted government benefits offered to him as a congressman. "They all have Plan Bs," noted Democrat Joe Crowley. "The 46 million Americans who don't have insurance today don't have a Plan A."

Representative Paul Gosar, R-Arizona, is a freshman declining the federal benefits for philosophical reasons. According to spokeswoman Stephanie Zimmerman, Gosar has a health savings account for his family, and has seen his premiums increase 30% in the last year. Zimmerman said if Gosar were to opt in to federal health benefits, he would be able to cover his entire family for about $300 a month. Under his current plan, he has to pay approximately $1,700 a month out of pocket. "He made a promise to his constituents that he would not take members' health benefits because he wanted to live like everyone else in his district," Zimmerman said.

Florida Representative Allen West, a Republican freshman elected with significant Tea Party support, is accepting the federal health care benefit. He dismisses Democratic accusations that he and other lawmakers like him are hypocrites.

Still -- regardless of their reasoning -- only a fraction of Republicans who voted to repeal the health care law are forgoing government-subsidized insurance for themselves. GOP leadership aides insist there is nothing wrong with lawmakers, including House Speaker John Boehner, accepting government-subsidized health care benefits, since the government is their employer. "The speaker, like President Obama, Senator Harry Reid and tens of millions of other Americans, gets his health coverage through his employer. That has nothing to do with opposition to Washington Democrats' unconstitutional, job-destroying health care law," said Michael Steel, spokesman for House Speaker John Boehner. They may be small in number, but some of Boehner's freshmen GOP colleagues disagree. They say their opposition to the health care law is in fact connected to the government-subsidized insurance offered to them.

 ------ I think whatever healthcare is eventually passed the American Public should have access to the same level of healthcare options our congressional leaders have .. No more ... No Less. Congressional leaders who take subsidized healthcare should not have the right to vote against the American public having access to similar plans.  -
or our congressional leaders should be required to shop open market like the rest of us -  JMHO
"if your old flathead doesn't leak you are out of oil"
"I have strong feelings about gun control. If there is a gun around I want to be controlling it." - Clint Eastwood
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjaman Franklin
"It's better to be hated for who you are , then loved for who your not." - Van Zant

Offline dukkillr

  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3428
    • The Daily Limit
Re: So...what do "conservatives" think should be done about health care?
« Reply #50 on: February 09, 2011, 06:29:29 PM »
You want their healthcare?  Get their job.  You want the paycheck of a CEO?  Get his job.  Work hard in high school, get a scholarship to a good college, get good grades, work you way up in business or a profession.  Just because you want something doesn't mean you have a right to it.  No one is stopping you from running in the next election.

If the question is, "Should members of congress get such good benefits paid for by the tax payers?"  The answer is no.  But the idea that everyone should get that coverage would bankrupt the hell out of us. 

Offline scootrd

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2745
Re: So...what do "conservatives" think should be done about health care?
« Reply #51 on: February 09, 2011, 06:41:26 PM »
You want their healthcare?  Get their job.  You want the paycheck of a CEO?  Get his job.  Work hard in high school, get a scholarship to a good college, get good grades, work you way up in business or a profession.  Just because you want something doesn't mean you have a right to it.  No one is stopping you from running in the next election.

If the question is, "Should members of congress get such good benefits paid for by the tax payers?"  The answer is no.  But the idea that everyone should get that coverage would bankrupt the hell out of us. 

No it wouldn't , it's called pooling. It would cost no one anything but to allow negotiation with a larger pool of potential customers whether that be across states or through a Public option. And it is absolute Hypocrisy in my opinion to have access to a certain basic level of heathcare and deny others the same Access. 

at least there are a few honorable congressional leaders who feel which ever way it swings they stand in the same foot steps as the John Q Public .

Representative Paul Gosar, R-Arizona, is a freshman declining the federal benefits for philosophical reasons. According to spokeswoman Stephanie Zimmerman, Gosar has a health savings account for his family, and has seen his premiums increase 30% in the last year. Zimmerman said if Gosar were to opt in to federal health benefits, he would be able to cover his entire family for about $300 a month. Under his current plan, he has to pay approximately $1,700 a month out of pocket. "He made a promise to his constituents that he would not take members' health benefits because he wanted to live like everyone else in his district," Zimmerman said.

unlike  - 

Florida Representative Allen West, a Republican freshman elected with significant Tea Party support, is accepting the federal health care benefit. He dismisses Democratic accusations that he and other lawmakers like him are hypocrites.

We disagree , that;s ok .. but it's how I feel.
"if your old flathead doesn't leak you are out of oil"
"I have strong feelings about gun control. If there is a gun around I want to be controlling it." - Clint Eastwood
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjaman Franklin
"It's better to be hated for who you are , then loved for who your not." - Van Zant

Offline dukkillr

  • Moderators
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3428
    • The Daily Limit
Re: So...what do "conservatives" think should be done about health care?
« Reply #52 on: February 10, 2011, 02:01:33 AM »
I like how you skipped the substance of my post.  But here's the deal with your pooling:  I can't think of any reason not to allow you to shop across state lines.  If there is some logic behind that rule I've never head it.  And I'm sure if you want whatever plan they have you can get it.  I'd be prepared to pay for it though... so we're back to that whole, take responsiblity thing...  Indeed I'm sure any member of the public is welcome to purchase their plan, unsubsidized, the way it should be.

You are right that adding healthy and young people to the pool lowers the risk, but it isn't risk free.  Since it isn't risk free, it isn't free.  If they want in, go for it, just pay their way.  Considering their age, it should be much cheaper.

And for the record, I pay for my own insurance, entirely out of my own pocket.  I run my own small business.  I have some idea what numbers are involved.

Offline 45-70.gov

  • GBO Supporter
  • Trade Count: (7)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7009
  • Gender: Male
Re: So...what do "conservatives" think should be done about health care?
« Reply #53 on: February 10, 2011, 03:45:15 AM »
get government involvement  out

i guess that  means insurance regulation  too
so insurance companies in my state  now have 49 times more competition for my money

i don't think the government has the right to out law  insurance
but  that would  sure  bring a REAL element of competition  and free interprize

those that cannot afford  healthcare.....
should turn to those that  WANT  to help them

those that speak and think  in first person plural.......
WE  need to help those  that can't afford......ect..
just don't beleive in freedom

WE  don't  need to resolve OUR  problems
because  then  WE  need  a parasite/polotition to decide  how to spend  OUR  money
 your health care is not  my health care....
..but  every one  on this thread speaks in first person plural
when drugs are outlawed only out laws will have drugs
DO WHAT EVER IT TAKES TO STOP A DEMOCRAT
OBAMACARE....the biggest tax hike in the  history of mankind
free choice and equality  can't co-exist
AFTER THE LIBYAN COVER-UP... remind any  democrat voters ''they sat and  watched them die''...they  told help to ''stand down''

many statements made here are fiction and are for entertainment purposes only and are in no way to be construed as a description of actual events.
no one is encouraged to do anything dangerous or break any laws.

Offline beerbelly

  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1625
Re: So...what do "conservatives" think should be done about health care?
« Reply #54 on: February 10, 2011, 05:21:25 AM »
The people who have good HC can keep it with out govt interference.

Damn, now where have I heard that before?

Offline lgm270

  • Trade Count: (1)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1862
Re: So...what do "conservatives" think should be done about health care?
« Reply #55 on: February 10, 2011, 06:18:09 AM »
Most illegals pay taxes like the rest of us except they use false SSNs.......fact.

Nobody should get free health care......period.

Illegal aliens do not pay taxes like the rest of us.  That is the fact.  Illegals steal identities.  Many use more than one tax payer ID number and spread income around among different identities to shelter income.  I have been in bankrutpcy court when illegal aliens filed bankruptcy to get rid of debt, and them produced personal identification in another name. They couldn't keep their different ID's straight and brought the wrong one to court.  I was recently in traffic court when an Hispanic was cited for driving without a license.  He produced a license for the judge, but the name on the license was different from the name on the citation.   This is a common practice in the illegal alien community.  They will "share" drivers' licenses and insurance information among themselves. When they run into you, good luck on getting compensated because the insurance company will deny coverage because they can't identify who is really insured.  And you, the white American who has to pay taxes for them to get free public benefits, will be screwed again.   

Apart from ID theft and fraud, many illegals work in the underground economy and get cash and don't pay any taxes at all. 

The idea that illegal aliens "pay taxes" is simply not true. 

Visit any hospital in Southern California, look at the people in the waiting room....and you will see what is a huge component of our "broken" healthcare system:   Illegal alien free loaders.

Offline mcwoodduck

  • Trade Count: (11)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7983
  • Gender: Male
Re: So...what do "conservatives" think should be done about health care?
« Reply #56 on: February 10, 2011, 07:17:00 AM »
The people who have good HC can keep it with out govt interference.

Damn, now where have I heard that before?

That is what BHO said,
The he also said we need to have a single payer system, and that we need to end private health care in less than 10 years.
So how I think I like the idea of a CEO I can sue over someone at the DMV I can not, making desicions as to what illness will be covered by my plan.

Offline teamnelson

  • Trade Count: (30)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4487
  • Gender: Male
Re: So...what do "conservatives" think should be done about health care?
« Reply #57 on: February 10, 2011, 11:00:00 AM »
Quote
And it is absolute Hypocrisy in my opinion to have access to a certain basic level of heathcare and deny others the same Access.

I think I get what you're saying, but at the same time there's a flaw in that logic. I can't for example get any of the fastfood deals I see advertised on TV because I live in HI - your 99cent items all cost me $1.49, if available. And when you have cherry pies, I get poi or haupia pies. I'm not equating basic HC to a pie, but see if it serves as an analogy. Access to HC is in fact limited by the individuals means - means to pay, means to get to the hospital, means to communicate - as well as the availability of care. Many things that you might have offered in your local system we have to fly to California to get as the HC system here doesn't offer it. My access is blocked by a large body of water, and I do not see it as the governments role to build a bridge for me.

The access argument seems to state that government must provide all means necesary for people to have access to HC, whether they avail themselves of it or not. And that's neither consitutionally true or even morally true, as in order to do so would put an unjust burden on the rest of the citizenry.

I'd rather start this argument from a position of liberty, as in government cannot infringe my right to life - i.e. cannot take it from me. The quality of my life however is up to me to do my best to protect, and governments only role at that point is to ensure that no one's access is blocked due to race, creed, color, gender, age. Ability to pay is not a government problem to solve, although it can do a lot to ensure that the cost is not artifically inflated. And I should not be protected from myself if I engage in life threatening habits.
held fast

Online DDZ

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6055
  • Gender: Male
Re: So...what do "conservatives" think should be done about health care?
« Reply #58 on: February 10, 2011, 12:19:58 PM »

[/quote]

Representative Paul Gosar, R-Arizona, is a freshman declining the federal benefits for philosophical reasons. According to spokeswoman Stephanie Zimmerman, Gosar has a health savings account for his family, and has seen his premiums increase 30% in the last year. Zimmerman said if Gosar were to opt in to federal health benefits, he would be able to cover his entire family for about $300 a month. Under his current plan, he has to pay approximately $1,700 a month out of pocket. "He made a promise to his constituents that he would not take members' health benefits because he wanted to live like everyone else in his district," Zimmerman said.

unlike  - 

Florida Representative Allen West, a Republican freshman elected with significant Tea Party support, is accepting the federal health care benefit. He dismisses Democratic accusations that he and other lawmakers like him are hypocrites.
[/quote]

Gosar gets paid around $14,583 per month. I have a hard time believing that an extra $1400 a month for health care is hurting very much.  I'm willing to bet also that he is not living like everyone else in his district. I doubt that it never entered his mind that if he gave up his government health care, and made it public, that this could get him reelected, to build on his future tax payer funded pension.  He has really helped the tax payers out by giving up his HC, while he pinches penny's with only a $13,183 per month. I'm sure he has a free car with gas, and lots of free lunches and dinners also. That would help soften the blow by having to pay his own HC. I really feel bad for the guy.
Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.    Wm. Penn

Offline scootrd

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2745
Re: So...what do "conservatives" think should be done about health care?
« Reply #59 on: February 10, 2011, 12:27:16 PM »
The point is ... if your going to vote against any kind of subsidized healthcare .. Don't take it yourself.  - JMHO
"if your old flathead doesn't leak you are out of oil"
"I have strong feelings about gun control. If there is a gun around I want to be controlling it." - Clint Eastwood
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjaman Franklin
"It's better to be hated for who you are , then loved for who your not." - Van Zant