.357 vs .41 vs .44

[williamlayton]

Now we are talking magnums here.
Wil a .41 do substantially more than a .357---OR---do you need to move up to a .44 to get a substantial difference.
Performance wise, speed is not the question.
Blessings

[buck460XVR]

 William....are you thinkin' of becomin' a wheelgunner?


William, at one time I have had all three. I no longer have the .41. Not that there was anything negative with it, but because I shot .357 and .44,  I really had no need for it other that the novelty. Unfortunately, I got rid of it before I started reloading and did not ever realize all the potential of the caliber. Buying factory ammo was one reason I traded it for another .357. .41 factory ammo was always difficult for me to find and when I did, it was expensive and I had to settle for what I could find. Not so at all with the .357 and .44 mag.

Wil a .41 do substantially more than a .357---OR---do you need to move up to a .44 to get a substantial difference.

In what application? Paper punching, competition shooting or hunting? I never competed with the .41, but it was no more or no less accurate than my .357s and .44s. For hunting it falls directly in the middle of it's siblings. A tad more punch and range than the .357 but a tad less of both(IMHO) than the .44. In my opinion. if one finds the recoil of a .44mag harsh and needs a tad more power than a .357, is only  gonna have one caliber in a hunting revolver(either as a primary or a backup gun), and RELOADS, a .41 may be just the ticket. For a non-reloader I suggest sticking to the calibers that one can readily find ammo for. The cost and unavailability of ammo may limit one from practicing enough to become proficient enough to ethically hunt. With more practice and realizing it's limits, one could hunt deer sized and smaller game just as efficiently with a .357. For punching paper, a .357 is just as accurate at similar ranges and even for a reloader than does not cast their own, cheaper to feed. As for the .44mag.....to me, difference in recoil over the .41 while  noticeable was not enough to justify keeping the .41.

 Again, even if I had kept the .41 until I reloaded, since I already have several .357s and .44s, both in revolver and carbines, it probably wouldn't have gotten shot as much as the others. If I had no hunting revolver, was only gonna have one, and reloaded, I would seriously consider the .41, for it fills that niche well.

 

[williamlayton]

Well, to be honest I don't know what I mean by performance---never have,
I am thinking or wondering if it would, the .41, provide more with less recoil. The older I get, the more sensitive I have become to my bones. By more I am thinking something like substantial.
I reload, less and less these days---something about the process that has lost it glamor, I guess.
I probably would do more of it if I was into working up loads---that was fun---once.
You know--your first thought is probably spot on. I am doing a lot of shooting with .22's these days and having fun with a couple of projects in this respect.
Rollers are what I used to shoot---though---in those days--I was young and just liked too shoot anything, without really knowing anything.
I guess to say I had no direction would be the best description.
I have a number of Semi-autos and they are good-uns--built and tinkered with--just good reliable and pretty guns.
I might think I am just looking for new projects to keep my interest---and that would be a good thought.
Revolvers are something I just never got into. I am having fun with this N framed model 28 though and revolvers---especially used are less expensive as far as projects go.
Yes I am having fun with them.
I like too use whatever I own and carrying the N frame has developed a problem for me and my usual style of carry so I have had to do something about that. I will admit that I have wanted a belt carry rig for along time--and this N frame has pushed me to develop a rig for it.
Likewise---anything I get for a roller is going to need a scabbard---unless I alter my style to one similar to Dee's fashion---Mexican carry. Nothing wrong with that and I have been doing that with the N frame too no ill effect.
Yes---I guess I have gotten the revolver bug.
Blessings

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

Mr. William, right now I have quite a few .357's...single action and double..the smiths are my favorite, and a small one is my everyday carry gun..mostly I shoot hot 38's in these..just for plinking, vermin etc..at present I have two Smith.44's.  While I carry these less, I have one of them in the vehicle most of the time..when I go north to hunt or fish in grizzly country, they go along loaded with 250 grain cast..and a healthy charge of 2400...but mostly I shoot .44' specials in both guns..I use them for plinking and vermin..also at times as a carry gun...I would like one more scoped .44 for handgun hunting..I can hit stuff at long range with both calibers, but a rock has no feeling..I want a percise shot if I am going for game..hence the scope.. as for the 41 it is one caliber I have never owned.. I am looking for a smith 4"...it is on my list of things to get..I think Buck made a good point about ammo...38's are easy to come by..my pal has a 5 gal. bucket he picked up at the range..I have picked up much .44 brass, but I don't think ever a 41??? In my area, brass and bullets for the 41 are far more difficult to locate...But how much.. brass does a guy need to keep up..a couple hundred rds will do me especially with the other calibers to shoot..I enjoy both the .357 and .44..while I carry the 357 most, I would not want to be with out my .44's..I also enjoy a Ruger .45 Colt and special run .44 spl..Really, there is a lot of over lap here..I think maybe you are like me, you enjoy guns and different ones keep us moving, keep us young..I always think of Elmer Keith when I am trying to talk my self out of buying something..He was building rifles and loading big bore doubles til the day he went to the final show...I feel it kept him young and active..good thing to think about..

[Lloyd Smale]

heres my take on it. A 357 for me is nothing but a noisy 38special. I dont care for big game hunting with one and much prefer a 41 or 44. Now to the 41. I know theres a big cult following for them but never could figure why. Recoil is just about as stout as a 44mag and the guns are all built on the same frame and with the smaller bore end up a tad heavier. Im a 44 mag fan to the bone. I could care less if someone thinks im cooler or a more knowlegable handgunner because i choose a 41 or 45 colt. I like the 44 because it just does everything well.

[Mohawk]

I think they all make fine whitetail guns. For hogs, I would stick with the .44. To me its not a "vs" situation, more of each caliber has its niche.

[Redhawk1]

heres my take on it. A 357 for me is nothing but a noisy 38special. I dont care for big game hunting with one and much prefer a 41 or 44. Now to the 41. I know theres a big cult following for them but never could figure why. Recoil is just about as stout as a 44mag and the guns are all built on the same frame and with the smaller bore end up a tad heavier. Im a 44 mag fan to the bone. I could care less if someone thinks im cooler or a more knowlegable handgunner because i choose a 41 or 45 colt. I like the 44 because it just does everything well.

I have to agree to a point, the 41 is a step above the 357 Mag by a lot. The 44 makes a bigger hole with about the same recoil..  If I had to choose one, it would be the 44 Mag..  Where I differ is I like bigger holes in my game so I go with the 45 cal and up.. Just a personal preference.

[pmeisel]

I have mainly shot 357s, but find both the 41 and 44 great guns as well.

Think of them as large, extra large, and double extra large.

When you handload, you can dial up as much velocity as prudent -- but you don't have to shoot full house all the time. 

[southernutah]

I have but seldom pack 357s, go to trail guns are 3" 657 or 4" 629. Either will fill the bill. 657  either a 170 or 210 gr bullet and 44 240gr. 41s just have a mystic about them and I would never feel under guned next to the 44

[drdougrx]

Hi William,

I also have all three.  I never shoot the 357....no reason really, I just prefer the 40+ calibers.  I've got a 41 in a Blackhawk and use it for hunting.  I load heavy for caliber cast boolits and they recoil way beyond the 357 (so much so that it's at my smith getting converted to a bisley grip frame).  I can't comment on the 170 or 210gr jacketed in the 41 because I don't have any experience with them.  I do agree though that the 44 fits the bill in more ways than the other two for hunting.  Self defense is a different animal entirely as you know....Dee has some very practical and sage advice worth listening to. 

Although in the spirit of full disclosure....for me...a 41 has some "cool" factor

As stated before...what's the application???

[Noreaster]

There is an interesting read, if you can find it on the net. Foggy Mountain Guide service in Maine. The owner is a big handgun hunter. He switched from a Colt Python 357 mag to a 41 mag Blackhawk after the 357 failed to stop a bear. He doesn't use anything special for ammo, regular old SP stuff. I read somewhere else that he still uses the 357 mag for deer, said it's his favorite deer handgun. Try to read it if you get a chance.

[SHOOTALL]

William are you getting tired of picking up brass ? 
I have shot all three but only owned 357 and 44. Why because they will cover most shooting. To me if a bullet weighs a certian weight then the longer it is the better it penetrates . So with 180 - 200 gr. down to 148 gr 357 bullets and 44 mag down to 180 and up to 300 plus i feel covered. Will a 200 gr 357 do what a 300 gr 44 do ? maybe maybe not but between the two I don't think a 41 offers a better option .
 Now if you only were to own one it might be a good choice but still I would go with a 44 as more ammo choice is aval.
 Now if you want a 357 to compete with the 40 something crowd find a Dan Wesson 357 super mag 

[williamlayton]

Shootall
To tell you the truth, I am just full of semi-autos---and I do enjoy them so.
The little excursion into the .22's has brought about much pleasure + I save my back by not having to pick up the brass.
I found the Smith 28-2 and I am having a good time with it---well the one day we have had in two weeks that was decent enough to shoot.
The next logical step---did I use the LOGICAL word?--is another caliber---I ahve just about decided to make it a Smith in .45ACP.
Blessings

[SHOOTALL]

Well I got tired of picking up brass also and also like the auto. Went the 22 route but like a bigger bang  So now I shoot the revolvers which I have always liked also. If I may suggest a 45 Colt revolver with a 45ACP cyl . If a Ruger there are many power levels to explore . If a Redhawk is selected then there are still several power levels to try but no acp cyl.  And since it seems you like to have trigger work , a good smith can give a Redhawk one fine trigger , I have one and it is as good as any.

[mcwoodduck]

As far as Power level go.
it's 3, 4, 7.
while the 357 mag hot l=hunting loads are not far behi=und the 41 in power, the 44 loads are almost twice the 41 loads.
The 10mm auto was made to aproximate the 41 Mag in an auto.  Much like 357 Sig or 38 Super does to 357 mag.
As defensive guns.  I really do not see a use for the 44 mag other than the Win chester 210 grain reduced silver tip load that is inbetween  41 and 44 Full house loads.  Still more than you want to shoot in a defensive situation.
Some say the 41 mag is the perfect police round and if it fit in anything other than an N frame.....

[SHOOTALL]

The 10 mm comes close to 41 mag in the lower police loads in lighter weight bullet loads but never equals it.

[williamlayton]

Well, I keep trying to deny that I want one of ever kind---but it does no good and I know I am a hypocrit.
I am going for a Smith in a .45 ACP---then we will see.
Blessings

[SHOOTALL]

They are nice shooters .

[1911crazy]

William,   Your thinking like me and jumping the auto pistol ship or changing direction and thinking about wheel guns.  I started with wheel guns from the very beginning so its not new to me.  I do like the heavier frames with the magnum calibers like the S&W "N" frames.  The weight of the frame/gun does keep the recoil down somewhat.  Nothing wrong with changing directions but we always go back to where we left off too. I've done it many times letting the force guide me.  To me its the avilabliity, the price and if its want i alwayswanted but never purchased yet.

First we must remember the 357mag, the 41mag and the 44mag has killed every north american game thats to Elmer Keith and the other godfathers of hand gun hunting.  So either magnum caliber will do and has done the job with a well placed shot.  The bottomline is what can we handle.

357mag 158JHP H110 powder=1250 FPS
41mag  200JHP  H110 powder= 1351 FPS
44mag  200JHP  H110 powder= 1590 FPS

38 special 140 jhp HS6= 875 FPS
41 special
44 special 200JHP HS6= 913 FPS
45acp  200JHP HS6= 950 FPS

With that said here we go;

I'm full of the auto's too but i also realized that my local dealer has some awesome buys on the new S&W classic revolvers, we all drooled over these before they were classics when we were younger.  I still want my list of gotta have auto's but when i seen the affordable prices on some of the classic S&W revolvers that i always wanted for 40 years now i had to jump ship and just go for it.  I went for the S&W model 57 in 41mag. w/6" barrel and I have the 357mags and the 44mags in the rugers.  Now i like them all but the rumors about the 41mag and its a flatter shooter with less recoil than a 44mag, plus the 210gr bullet in the 41mag has a tad more power over the 210gr bullet in the 44mag has got my attention.  Thats three plus's in the right direction for the 41mag. as we get older. I can still handle the recoil on the 44mag and probably the bigger handgun calibers too but i'm getting older too. There's nothing wrong with thinking about the future now.  I think there is an over looked nitch for the 41mag with the guys who don't like the recoil on the 44mag with stouter loads. Yet they wanted more power than the 357mag. Don't under estimate the 357mag with stout loads for it also has some bite on the recoil too. I think all three of  these magnums loaded with regular magnum loads will make some shooters uncomfortable to shoot it. Does the magnums take a special breed of person to shoot it i think not.  It takes a lot of practice to get use to each magnum caliber to shoot it accurately and the learning process on handling the recoil too.

We can also look at it from another direction too we also have the 38 special with the 357mag,  the 41 special with the 41mag and the 44 special with the 44mag so we can still shoot lighter loads with the magnum calibers too.  Thats something to think about too. I don't like to waste lighter loads on the magnum brass. Anyway we get better ballastics from the light loads in the shorter special bass over using the same light loads with the longer magnum brass.

One guy on a forum who hunts with both the 41mag and the 44mag said he doesn't notice any difference between the killing power of the 41mag and the 44mag they seem to be equal in stopping power. So does on caliber have an edge over the other?  It maybe on paper in the ballastics there is a difference but there is no noticable in killing power from what he has said. Is bigger better?  If there is no noticeable difference in stopping/killing power i would think not right?
One more thing to think about is if we tested both calibers in the ballastic gel to see if there is any difference in penetration between the 41mag and the 44mag.

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

  1911, Good points..makes we want to rush out and buy a .41.. Have kind a been thinking of one anyway... One thing I would mention..when you listed the vel. of the 38 spl. , 44 spl., 45 ACP, at 950 fps. I remembered visiting with one of the top big bore custom pistol builders....We were talking about the killing power of various calibers..HIS HUNTING GUN was a ..45 COLT.. I believe he said he loaded 250 grain cast at 850 fps. He told me they would shoot though both sides of an elk like it was cheese...While he had very heavy loads for camping in grizzly country, he felt the light loads were fine for most game shooting..

[gr8ful]

be careful getting into the cult of the 41, once you start there is no going back! That being said, I don't notice any difference in 41,44, or heavy 45 Colt in performance on deer and hogs inside 100 yards.  My experience with 357 on deer has not been so good, both deer died but required substantial tracking to find, one ran @200 yards and the other went nearly 300 and required a follow up shot. both we shot quartering on right on the point of the shoulder with 158gr JHPs at less than 50 yards.  I have made the same shot several times with the larger calibers with often spectacular results.  (Buffalo Bore 325 LFN 45 Colt is an absolute Piledriver in a Classic Carbine Handi)

[1911crazy]

1911, Good points..makes we want to rush out and buy a .41.. Have kind a been thinking of one anyway... One thing I would mention..when you listed the vel. of the 38 spl. , 44 spl., 45 ACP, at 950 fps. I remembered visiting with one of the top big bore custom pistol builders....We were talking about the killing power of various calibers..HIS HUNTING GUN was a ..45 COLT.. I believe he said he loaded 250 grain cast at 850 fps. He told me they would shoot though both sides of an elk like it was cheese...While he had very heavy loads for camping in grizzly country, he felt the light loads were fine for most game shooting..

Sorry for the brain fade i left out the .45 long colt. I'm in too deep with the 41mag now and probably in way over my head your too late with the warning..

Last month my from me to me retirement gift was when (january) i got my very first S&W revolver in 41mag model 57 adjustable rear site,  w/6" barrel in nickel finish brand new for $699 / list $1,161.  What a sweet trigger and its very very purdy too.  This month (february) is my to me from me 60th birthday gift and i went back looking today for another brand new S&W model 58 fixed rear sight, 4" barrel  in nickel finish for the same $699 again its over $1,000 on the list price. I purchased it.  Then i calmed down and went browsing for march's revolver.  I found a S&W model 57 in 41mag snubnose w/nickel finish too at the same price of just $699. Being frugal i can't pass up the 41mag's at this price. I wanted the 41mag for 35+ years and now i'm bitten by the 41mag bug really bad.

Plus while S&W is still offering these as there classics i'm not sure how long we will see them. They did discontinue some of them a while back and S&W brought them back again.  I wish ruger would do the samething with there redhawk's in 357mag and in 41mag too.  Plus bring back the 480 ruger in the redhawk too. S&W is still offering the model 29 in 44mag too the "dirty harry" world famous revolver in nickel, in blue or in stainless too.  Just a few will make me happy.

Now while browsing for my next revolver i seen the S&W revolver on steroids the 500S&W, w/6 1/2" barrel. OOOOO what a hand cannon.  Really big holes in the barrel and the cylinder plus it looks to be ported.  I wonder how much recoil does it have?  Any S&W 500S&W owners here?? Maybe the ruger redhawk in 480 ruger would be a better choice. As i'm getting older i'm not sure how much longer i would beable to handle the larger hand cannons like the 500S&W/480 ruger.  Lets say i won't shoot them too much.

Of course i found out why many don't like to get new calibers because of the cost of stocking up on the ammo, reloading supplies like the dies, the brass and bullets and the dies.  I just ordered 1500rds of the 41cal 215 leadcast,  200rds of the 210 JHP's and 1100rds of new brass plus i purchased 7 boxes of new ammo too. Its really costly to add another caliber to our line up.  Now i'm thinking about a LEE pro 1000 or the stuff to change my lee pro 1000 in 45acp over to 41mag.  It does save time in reloading.    CZY

[gr8ful]

See what i mean about the cult of the 41? Welcome to the dark side Wyo. Coyote Hunter! expensive idn't it! My 57 is 4" in nickel, wish i had a 6" got a redhawk with a 7 1/2" but I just prefer the S&W, I am sure the wife will humour me 1 more...LOL

[gypsyman]

Never had a .41. Always used a .357 or .44. I guess the main reason I would stick with the .44 over the .41 is the availability of components. Much bigger selection for the .44 as far as bullet weights. gypsyman

[1911crazy]

So William which magnum caliber do you like over the three?

The 41mag is an overlooked caliber i think because there was no place to really talk about it until the internet.  I think the 41mag is getting some attention now.

I'm also torn between the S&W model 29 in 44mag in blue or nickel.  Dirty Harry used the blued one so to be polictially correct it has to be a 6 1/2" barrel and blued for us to say we got Dirty Harry's revolver right?                                       CZY

[1911crazy]

Never had a .41. Always used a .357 or .44. I guess the main reason I would stick with the .44 over the .41 is the availability of components. Much bigger selection for the .44 as far as bullet weights. gypsyman

I've owned the 44's ever since my beginning with handguns.  With the ruger super blackhawk in 44mag then to the ruger redhawk's in 44mag.  I like my 44's but the 41mag has been on my mind for a very longtime too.  I also have 357's but i wanted something different to shoot.  The 41mag is the nitch between the 357 and the 44.  CZY.

[teamnelson]

Well, I keep trying to deny that I want one of ever kind---but it does no good and I know I am a hypocrit.
I am going for a Smith in a .45 ACP---then we will see.
Blessings

Bro William, I'd think for a fella with your collection, the 625 JM would be a nice gun.

I've never had a .41; but have shot a lot of 357 and almost as much 44 (mostly in IHMSA shooting.) I'm sort of the reverse (mebbe) of you though - I've always been a wheelie fan. Begrudgingly used Uncle Sam's 45 then 9mm, wishing I could have a mdl 60 instead. But in the last 2 years I've acquired my first 1911 and I love it; got the 22 slide for it - awesome. I think its just a crush; it may pass, it may not, but its fun for now.

It turned out for me that in 44, I like the Ruger Bisley. I have a 629 with the 6.5" barrel, and its nice and all, but it's now in the trade/sell bin in the armory. The 44 for me is a hunting tool - slow or single fire.

But for the 357, it has to be a DA revolver. For a carry piece, a 586+ 4" in a nice piece of leather with some fancy hogue wood grips does the trick. The 357 is my trusted SD/HD round, with good performance hunting at appropriate ranges.

[Blackhawker]

William:
Here is a thought:  Have you ever thought of a Ruger Blackhawk in 38-40?  This Blackhawk comes with a 10mm cylinder so if you already have a 10mm auto, you can shoot the same ammo in the revolver as well.  As for the 38-40, you can keep it at standard velocity BUT, in the Ruger Blackhawk and pretty much in ONLY the Ruger Blackhawk, you can load those 38-40's to near 41 mag velocities and/or performance. 

Now, what good does this do ya?  Nothing at all.  You can go out and buy yourself a 41 mag and have something that's similar to what everyone else has out there in that caliber.  But, if you want to have something that's a bit unique, out of the ordinary and something that only you can load to make it unique, this may be worth looking into.  There aren't too many out there but they are available. 

....just a thought.....  I'm certainly not telling you what to do or that this is the greatest thing in the world.  It's just something a little different, that's all and it will give you performance from a full range of the spectrum. 

Sometimes we overlook the old classics!  (45LC and 44-40, 38-40 and 32-20)  The 45 Colt is another that can give you a full range spectrum of performance in a Ruger Blackhawk.  Plus, you can get a convertible to shoot your 45 ACP's from it too!

[1911crazy]

Now are we collectors and shooters?  Or just hunt with them thats the question.  I collect too so everything goes too with hunting and shooting i do it all.   I know that some of these calibers do over lap in ballastics but a 44 is a 44 and a 41 is a 41 and so on with the 357 too.  The 10mm is another caliber and yes there offered in the revolvers too nowadays i seen one today.   I also seen the S&W in 44special and in 45acp too.  But they did nothing for me.  CZY

[williamlayton]

Well now, lets see here.
I have the .357 and was searching for another roller. I did shoot a friends .44 mag the other day. I just don't want that much recoil. The .41 can, for my purpose be almost matched by the .347.
I have decided to get a .45ACP---I can bump it up some and I set up for reloading it.
The .41 just does not offer enough differnces in power and The .44 is out of my league for recoil.
OH--I can shoot it but it is not plesant enough to bear up under it. I am 70 and a wimp.
Blessings