WHAT WERE THE FAILINGS OF RR's IN THE SOUTH

[williamlayton]

The South was greatly dependent on Rail Roads during the war. What was one of the major problems with this and why did it occur?
Blessings

[PowPow]

Could it be that the southern railroads remained private and independent during the war, while the northern railroads were nationalized by Lincoln and were operated more optimally for the war effort?

[subdjoe]

Quite simple, before the war too much of the revenue raised from taxes and tariffs went to build up rail, among other things, in the north.  Almost none was spent to improve/expand rail in the south.  Also, lack of a steel industry and manufacturing in the south made difficult, if not impossible, to keep the ones they had in good repair or expand them.  A good example of the captains of finance and industry of the north profiting from the financial burden levied on the south.

[williamlayton]

The Southern owners of rail roads were independent and cooperation between the states was lacking. There were varying gages of rails in the South making it impossible to move goods without changing lines.
The Southern owners did this on purpose before the war so that they could control the lines.
It was not possible to move anything without loading and unloading the goods several time.
The rails in the north coordinated Gage widths and were therefore able to haul without loading and unloading.
Just one of the many problems the different states in the south could not/would not cooperate with each other on.
Blessings 

[williamlayton]

It was not so much a failing but an indication of thought.
The South was a group of states tied to the sea.
Rails were a means of getting goods to the sea.
Each rail owner wanted to control its portion of this economy---a localized monoply if this is understood.
There was little or no thought or desire to commerce with other states.
In the North it was early recognized that these new rails were a great source of building a cheap and easy means of transportation. The rail owners standardized, for the most part, these rail gages early on in development.
While it is true that rails were a part of the Federal governments subsidy to build infrastructure the South showed no interest in becoming part of this.
It was also true that rails over the mountains hindered this building, those obstacles could have been overcome.
The Souths involvement with trade with England was of greater interest to the landed gentry and they enjoyed the things of Europe--it enhanced their genteel way of life. they were unwilling to break with England and Europe.
England enhanced this contact with the South by, itself, subsidizing this trade. England knew this was their last chance to regain a foothold in America.
Blessings

[Dixie Dude]

Rivers were the "railroads" of the south.  Riverboats travel up the rivers in most southern states to pick up cotton to transfer to coastal cities for export.  For instance a riverboat can travel up from Mobile all the way to Tuskaloosa, Selma, Montgomery in Alabama.  Up to Columbus and Augusta Georgia.  Of course along the Mississippi, but also up the Tennesse to Shilo, near the Alabama, Mississisppi, Tennessee lines and up to Nashville.   Also up the Red River from Louisiana.  Most large plantations were along these rivers.  Riverboats were/are shallow draft boats and can go in fairly shallow river water.  This is also why New Orleans was the largest export city in the US before the war.   

[williamlayton]

Your thought is well stated Dixie.
Not all were as accessable to rivers though and other means of transportation were required. It is a co-operation of resources that was required---perhaps co-ordination is a better thought, at any length, it was transportation.
Blessings

[subdjoe]

Rail in the north was also private, but got huge amounts of federal funding and support. It comes down to the north having the population and political power for the House to keep pouring Southern raised revenue into projects to benefit the financial and industrial interests of the north.  If most of the funds raised in the south had been used for improvements there, the rails and ports would have been at least as good as those in the north.

[williamlayton]

The FEDS were willing to invest in the infastructure of the South but the South rejected because of a number of reasons.
One of those reasons was the standardization of gages.
Blessings

[Ga.windbreak]

The Southern owners of rail roads were independent and cooperation between the states was lacking. There were varying gages of rails in the South making it impossible to move goods without changing lines.
The Southern owners did this on purpose before the war so that they could control the lines.
It was not possible to move anything without loading and unloading the goods several time.
The rails in the north coordinated Gage widths and were therefore able to haul without loading and unloading.
Just one of the many problems the different states in the south could not/would not cooperate with each other on.
Blessings

A nice opinion but you have shown nothing to back your opinion up.

Where are your facts? Do you have any or is your opinion on this subject all that we will be blessed with?

[PowPow]

Where are your facts?

Facts? We don't need no stinkin' facts.
I believe it was said "Those who don't study history are doomed to discussion boards".
Or maybe I just made that up, but so far posts have been by Southerners; We kin talk about ourn anyhow since they are ourn.

Besides, keeping WL involved in this discussion keeps him from going out and buying up every 22 rifle ever made.

[Ga.windbreak]

Where are your facts?

Facts? We don't need no stinkin' facts.
I believe it was said "Those who don't study history are doomed to discussion boards".
Or maybe I just made that up

  , well then since we want the moon to be made of green cheese, carry on! and God forbid that WL would leave I'm having to much fun!

[Ga.windbreak]

BTW WL if you would, please, there is no need to shout your titles, bad form imvho.

[williamlayton]

I believe that titles should be all caps---I can't see that as shouting.
Once again---I have the luxury of posting opinion. It is a studied opinion. The same studies are open to all. I do not post to change minds--this is hardly anything more than coffee talk.
I am more Western than Southern.
My family owned a foundry in Galveston, Texas during this conflict. It was confiscated to the taste of the Confederacy which my family did not support.
I grew up under the tutelage of Southern prejudice which I disagreed with on many points and could not see the value of.
When in school I majored in the History of this conflict and was well on my way to Masters in this study when I left school.
I had the good fortune of studying under PHD's who taught history.
I understand your passion, I just don't agree with it.
Blessings

[Ga.windbreak]

I believe that titles should be all caps---I can't see that as shouting.

Humor me, remember when in Rome. You are not in charge here so be nice.

I understand your passion, I just don't agree with it

My passion is "The Truth" I have no other iron in this fire. I will readly admit I didn't start out that way but thru years of living, having seen the Elephant among many other things, researching our history, reading books, speeches, and quotes by those involved rather than our modern later day romantic author/historians my opinions and feelings have grown as has my understanding of the many forces that were involved in this time in our history. It was bloody, unnecessary, stupid, wasteful, and most of all killed the very type of government our founding Fathers passed to our keeping. There is not ONE saving grace that came from that sorry period in our history and as for the Manifast Destiny party line it makes me want to puke! I would suggest those who believe in it read George Washington's final address to this nation as to my feelings of the proper direction this country should have taken.

I am more than willing to look at this from most any view that is based on proven facts. To those unwilling to open their minds to any thought but their own is no longer worth my time to debate them for I won't change them, so why try, I've better things to do with my time.

So with that said, with respect, I doubt you understand me at all.

[Ga.windbreak]

As for you good fortune to go to college, bravo. Yet you bring it up all the time as if you have something special to place you above those who did not go to college. I went BTW but my pants go on no different than my Uncle's who left school to raise his Brothers and Sisters to keep them together when their parents (my grandparents) died. I would put his honesty and integerity on par with any man!

There are many ways to gain knowledge.

[Dixie Dude]

I heard that the south had 4 different major gauges of RR's, which contributed to a lot of transfer of cargo especially in places like Atlanta.  Like I said, a riverboat was cheaper to operate than a railroad because of having to build and maintain the rails and bridges.  So, lots of major towns and cities as well as plantations sprang up along the rivers, up to the fall lines along the Piedmont plateau.  A day's wagon or horseback ride was about 30 miles, so if you look at the navigable rivers and draw a line 30 miles away from them a lot of plantations existed there.  Railroads had just began to open up other areas by the time the war started. 

I know that is why the north split the south first via the Mississippi.  The eastern part of the south couldn't get beef from Texas once the split was made.  Then they followed the railroad from Nashville to Atlanta and then to the coast to Savanah.  I know there was a railroad before the war from Montgomery to Atlanta.  Montgomery being a river city then connected to Atlanta via the railroad.  There was another railroad from Selma to Vicksburg to pick up Texas beef.  After the war with the south's railroads destroyed, Texans drove their cattle north to the Dodge City railhead until the railroads were rebuilt. 

[SHOOTALL]

DixieDude the South got over 2400 head of Texas cattle thru from Texas to Richmond while Richmond was under seige . As a matter of fact they came thru. union lines at a place called Cold Harbor . Reports say the union troops could hear and smell them . Go figure , guess the split wasn't 100% 

[SHOOTALL]

Oh yea those cows walked no train ride for them 

[williamlayton]

I doan think a longhorn would have fit on one of them narrow gage RR's.
Blessings

[williamlayton]

 
Blessings

[LHitchcox]

Two issues stand out. First was a lack of miles. The north had many more miles of track. Second was a lack of steel. Sherman's hairpins effectively ended the rails usefulness. Only the Tredegar works in Richmond had the ability to produce rails.

[williamlayton]

You are correct---I agree.
Blessings

[billy_56081]

Ga. Windbreak, I have no dog inthis fight, but one of the biggest failing in the Souths rail roads before the war was gauge size. The inability of being able to run interstate trains of cargowas one of the Souths largest failings. That is a historically well known fact. If you don't believe it do a bit of research on this subject.