Author Topic: WOW... lot's of info here. (Read 1038 times)

FDC · « **on:** February 08, 2011, 01:24:25 PM »

I'm an ole' arty man and have committed myself to build/cast a cannon replica of the Cival War era type. The cannon, itself, I don't have a problem with... I'm desperately looking to find plans I can scale off of to build the carriage and tender associated with the entire entrage. I plan on firing this cannon at considerable ranges so need to have plans I can scale sufficiently to accommodate a barrel at least 4 ft. in length. Can someone steer me toward a resource for an authentic plan set for the carriage and tenders used during that era? I'm up in my years and not all too familiar with these forums and such. I've read several pages of posts made on a variety of subjects but haven't run across anything relating to any plans that might be available. I saw a "glimpse" of a set of plans beneath a carriage some fella was building but have no clue what type of carriage it was or where he obtained the plans. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

FDC

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #1 on:** February 08, 2011, 01:36:50 PM »

FDC -
WELCOME to the board!

You're about to get some folks responding with either an answer or a question of clarification.

We're looking forward to seeing pictures of what you build and shoot too!

FDC · « **Reply #2 on:** February 08, 2011, 01:46:37 PM »

Roger that, Smoke... I love to share in my hobbies and art. I'd dedicate an entire thread to the build and cast of this project.

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #3 on:** February 08, 2011, 01:50:08 PM »

FDC - ahhhhh, we speak a common language! Ft Sill, FAOCSC 6-72.

We look forward to sharing experiences and pix.

Double D · « **Reply #4 on:** February 08, 2011, 01:53:18 PM »

Our Black powder cannons link list at the top of the forum has a list plans avialable available from various source around the interent. In a word what you want is avaialble from Antique Ordnance Publishers http://gunneyg.info/html/AOPCatalog.htm.

Just click on the linkto goto there webpage.

FDC · « **Reply #5 on:** February 08, 2011, 01:55:02 PM »

Ft. Sill, 2/37th FA (155 SP's) FDC *Yeaaah Baby!!* SPLASH, OVER!!!

FDC · « **Reply #6 on:** February 08, 2011, 01:57:16 PM »

I sincerely thank you both. You'll be hearing from me again, for sure!! Lots and lots to mull over and read up on that this site has to offer.

FDC · « **Reply #7 on:** February 08, 2011, 02:39:51 PM »

Indeed, that link you gave me is exactly what i'm look'n for. Thanks much, Double D!!

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #8 on:** February 08, 2011, 03:02:32 PM »

Quote from: FDC on February 08, 2011, 01:55:02 PM

Ft. Sill, 2/37th FA (155 SP's) FDC *Yeaaah Baby!!* SPLASH, OVER!!!

SMALL world. Loved shooting them M109's !!! SPLASH, OUT.

RocklockI · « **Reply #9 on:** February 09, 2011, 05:36:11 AM »

It sounds like you have a very ambitious plan .

A 4 foot cast cannon would be very cool .
Have you done this sort of thing in the past ? Do you have any experience in casting bronze ?

I 'll be following this thread with great interest . I wish you good luck !

Gary

FDC · « **Reply #10 on:** February 09, 2011, 07:53:05 AM »

Yes, I've been casting metal since '87. Mostly statuary bronzes, small to massive bronze plaques and emblems for commercial art commissions, as well as industrial/utilitarian casts for marine businesses, auto & antique restorers. Casting this cannon will be a walk in the park. And for sure, I'll create a thread to cover the development and progress of the processes involved for benefit of those interested in doing their own casts. I love share'n my experience in this field. I feel it's almost a dying art (casting metal, that is) and with foundries closing their shops all across the nation due to outsourcing it's becomming a cry'n shame there's little, if anyone, left in this Nation that knows how to do this type of work any more. It ain't a rocket science!! Man has been doing this since he crawled out from under a rock back in the caveman days... WITH NO EDUCATION!! LOL. There's a lot to it, sure... but not so much that a guy with a vision and some determination can't get his head around it all.

Zulu · « **Reply #11 on:** February 09, 2011, 08:17:11 AM »

FDC,
I too will be watching this thread. When do you plan to start?
Zulu

dan610324 · « **Reply #12 on:** February 09, 2011, 09:24:47 AM »

me to

FDC · « **Reply #13 on:** February 09, 2011, 09:37:56 AM »

Probably around April.. or May. I'm currently finishing off a shop on my new home we built last year. Long story why the relocation, but it's been a while that my foundry tools have been in storage. I'm anxious to get back into pour'n metal again. Also, some friends and I have managed a contest between us to see who could pour the best cannon, based upon "looks" and "cast quality". Casting a barrel "with" a bore, too, was part of the criteria, leaving little to finish of the bore or of the exterior of the cannon, itself.

Sounded like "LOADS" of fun to me!! (pun intended)

Besides, I've wanted a cannon all my life but never felt motivated to make one or obtain one. Considering my capabilities now days, why the heck not?? LOL.... so... GAME ON!!

dan610324 · « **Reply #14 on:** February 09, 2011, 10:24:35 AM »

do you plan to cast it with a core ??
thats a V E R Y bad idea

if you want a real challange why not try to make something beautiful ??
cw cannons are just a plain tube , no beauty .

sorry guys dont kill me for those words

subdjoe · « **Reply #15 on:** February 09, 2011, 10:27:40 AM »

(shakes head sadly)

Oh, you poor demented soul. Do you really believe that it will stop with just one? Especially with friends involved? One of them will do something you wish you had done, so you will be off designing and casting a Mod. I Mk2. One of your friends will see it and be off on a Mod. 2 to one up you. So you will naturally ....

See? It will never stop.

Not that that is a bad thing.

dan610324 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 09, 2011, 10:32:00 AM »

yeah , as long as he forget the idea with the core

Cat Whisperer · « **Reply #17 on:** February 09, 2011, 10:53:33 AM »

Quote from: FDC on February 09, 2011, 09:37:56 AM

...and I have managed a contest between us to see who could pour the best cannon,
.... so... GAME ON!!

Ooooo Ooooo Ooooo!

A Cannon Casting Competition!

Double D · « **Reply #18 on:** February 09, 2011, 11:04:16 AM »

I just read some where that U.S. never core cast a cannon barrel. The French and British stooped core casting in the late 18th century because of the problems with the technique especialyvoids and inclussions.

Some where a long time ago we had a good discussion on how cannons were cast that included pictures of the flask and or perhaps a canon the had been cast ut not machined

FDC · « **Reply #19 on:** February 09, 2011, 11:18:51 AM »

I'm good enough that my cast will be without voids and inclusions, in the event I decide to cast around a core. Indeed, there will be machining necessary to perfect the bore, that's a given. There is also the method of shrink casting onto a thick walled industrial strength copper alloy manufactured sleeve (solid, no seams) with a polished bore. I stumbled upon some of this material some time ago and have been considering its application in this manner for several years.

Oh... in regard to making something beautiful, rather than plain (as in the M1857), that general era cannon was more admired aesthetically due the carriage and limber it had which was my main focus on finished quality. As for the cast, yeah... the barrel would have had ART applied to it, as well. I wasn't looking to capture a "perfect" reproduction of anything of antiquity. I'm looking to build myself a cannon purely for the fun of it and the opportunity to let out a BANG now and then when I feel fiesty, and to be a statement of my inner personality (as an artist). Not to mention the joy of being able to take it out to the inlet now and then and target practice with it at floating ice hunks in the winter months. Plus, it'd make 4th of July BBQ's at my house a literal "BLAST"!! No matter what cannon I make it won't be a perfect replica... it'll be a cherished member of my family (an heirloom) I intend to pass down to whichever boy of mine is most accurate with it. And to keep it, they'd have to either conceede to a loss (by not participating) or compete once a year with one another for top honors to keep the trophy for another year. Seemed like a good excuse for them to get together in life each year to have some fun together, wives, kids, grandkids, the whole lot of'em.

RocklockI · « **Reply #20 on:** February 09, 2011, 01:26:52 PM »

That all sounds like a great idea ,but if you are going to put in all the time and effort to building a nice carriage you should make a barrel to match the heart of the piece is the the tube

!

Look at some books and pick out something you like , and make the barrel as close as possible .
The whole project sounds grand so you might as well have a grand historical piece when you're done .

Gary

FDC · « **Reply #21 on:** February 09, 2011, 03:13:39 PM »

@Double D

The biggest gun made in the civil war (massive thing) was cast in pittsburg, USA with a water cooled hollow core. The gun, itself, was cast iron. The breach was at least 4 ft. diameter. The US cast many cannons in that era with cores of a variety of sizes, some iron, some bronze. The UK may have stopped doing it but a sharp lieutenant in our military figured out a way to improve the process and perfect it's reliability. Of the cannons they made, one with bored core, one with a cast core citing the method used above, the bored cannons failed after several hundred firings whereas the other cast core cannons endured thousands of firings and never failed. Food for thought, there, huh?

Double D · « **Reply #22 on:** February 09, 2011, 04:43:47 PM »

And all this time I thought they were all cast solid and bored out...I am educated.

FDC · « **Reply #23 on:** February 09, 2011, 05:32:23 PM »

Because of improvements made in machine tooling, and convenience, yes... most were made machining out the bores. An old foundryman once told me that with the advent of higher education, inventions and improved tooling, etc., much of the trade secrets in the casting industry were forgotten and because of convenience the industry relied upon machinery to do laborous tasks men, otherwise, were orchestrated to do. In a sense, what they did back then is "new" technology these days representing a means by which man can do of his own skill and effort and not be so committed, or dependant, upon modern industrial machinery. This ole' coot that taught me was a godsend. Until I met this man I was convinced I'd be dependant upon commercial giant foundries to accomplish statuary casts I so had a passion to create. He opened my eyes to this industry and explained it as a father would his child how things worked so I could understand and develop a mastery of the skills involved. I vowed I'd share this with anyone I come across in life afterward so to keep alive the tradition of metal casting as an art and not allow it to be absorbed and controlled by big giant corporations.

Cannoneer · « **Reply #24 on:** February 09, 2011, 07:21:48 PM »

FDC,
While you're right in thinking that Thomas J. Rodman's 'water core' process of casting large bore iron cannon involved casting around a water cooled core, there were definitely some catastrophic failures that occured not only to Rodman Columbiads, but also to other large bore cast iron guns that were manufactured using his hollow casting technique (this includes big bore Parrotts and Dahlgrens).
There's also the fact that all of these massive guns actually were bored by machine, because the cores were always produced smaller than the intended bore diameter in order to achieve true and smooth bores in the final product.

FDC · « **Reply #25 on:** February 10, 2011, 07:14:36 AM »

Like I said earlier, BoomJ, finishing the bore to tolerance is a given. I thought I made that clear enough in an earlier post. My point was that casting with a core is not that unthinkable, nor should be recommeded as being something someone ought NOT to attempt (at least to those of us with the skills and knowhow to pull it off). I do understand the concerns in creating a cannon. I've been around them a good portion of my adult life and have been fastenated with them since childhood. I just haven't created one, myself, as yet. I've cast bronze in large amounts for over 20 years with superb quality and without defect. I do appreciate your concern, though, and I realize it's more aimed at the novice wishing to attempt such a project.

Cheers

dan610324 · « **Reply #26 on:** February 10, 2011, 09:28:10 AM »

but it has also been known among foundries for the last 400 years or so that voids and inclusions will get accumulated at the center of the casting
so with a core the center will be in the middle of the bore wall , without the core it will be in the center of the bore and thereby being removed when the barrel is bored .

so thats why they stopped using cores in cannon casting in early to mid 1700
they would have changed method earlier if they could , but it wasnt until that time they had equipment to bore out a solid casting

what method are you going to use ?? vaccum casting or centrifugal casting ??
what mold will you use ?? sand , investment or ceramic shell ??

FDC · « **Reply #27 on:** February 10, 2011, 10:19:46 AM »

A variety of factors can cause porosity in a cast... alloy used, temperature of melt when poured, and method of pouring (i.e., causing too much turbulance in the melt when filling the mold). Inclusions are a result of poor skimming, filtering, and/or portions of the mold breaking loose within the mold before or as it's being poured. Foundries back in the day typically cast their cannons on end (breach end down) with the mold burried in the earth on end. A channel was cut in the sand from the bot of the furnace and the metal was allowed to drain from the crucible, within that channel, to the pour cup of the cannon mold. Considering the drop that metal had to endure within that mold, as well the cooling the metal underwent while traveling along that carved channel, imagine pouring plaster into a mold of a significant height and you'll understand how air can be trapped easily within the turbulance of the cast into sections of near congealed metal (as it was beginning to cool) and not allowed to rise and escape out vents as it should.

Sand casting is my preferred method for this project. I would be casting it horizontally with minimal rise of the muzzle end of the mold and using a raised cheek and oversize pour cup at the breach end to increase head pressure within the mold to push metal into the mold, and throughout the entire cast, while gagging the pour cup (no air inclusion), and with a gating/resevoir system that's severely short connected to the cast that will also serve to accommodate shrinkage as the metal cools. I'm not pouring a ton of metal here. Five to 600 lbs maximum is all.

dan610324 · « **Reply #28 on:** February 10, 2011, 12:00:19 PM »

this will be a very interesting project to follow
hope you will show it step by step with lots of photos
I guess that we are quite a few here who is very interested to learn more about casting

FDC · « **Reply #29 on:** February 10, 2011, 04:04:16 PM »

I aim to please, Dan.

It'll be a slow journey since I'm still in the middle of finishing off a shop to work in. Picked up insulation to fill in most of the ceiling this evening. Will be picking up the balance of that needed tomorrow. Then begin hang'n sheetrock... ugh... ( I hate that job). Everything's wired already. Once the ceiling's done (sissor trusses on a 3/12 pitch) then I'll commense to insulate and rock the walls. Then the mud'n and tape'n to bring it to code.... more "ugh"... $:-\$

Hopefully, by summer I'll have my equipment set up and can light my foundry up again. Once that's done I can begin to build the pattern and flask necessary to accommodate this project. Indeed, I'll photograph o-plenty for you folks. That'll be when the FUN begins!!