Closing some post Offices

[nw_hunter]

Postal Service Eyes Closing Thousands of Post Offices

Published January 24, 2011

| The Wall Street Journal 

HOLMES MILL, Ky.—The U.S. Postal Service plays two roles in America: an agency that keeps rural areas linked to the rest of the nation, and one that loses a lot of money.

Now, with the red ink showing no sign of stopping, the postal service is hoping to ramp up a cost-cutting program that is already eliciting yelps of pain around the country. Beginning in March, the agency will start the process of closing as many as 2,000 post offices, on top of the 491 it said it would close starting at the end of last year. In addition, it is reviewing another 16,000—half of the nation's existing post offices—that are operating at a deficit, and lobbying Congress to allow it to change the law so it can close the most unprofitable among them. The law currently allows the postal service to close post offices only for maintenance problems, lease expirations or other reasons that don't include profitability.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/01/24/postal-service-eyes-closing-thousands-post-offices/#ixzz1DPGfmrGp

I think closing some post offices, perhaps even more, is an idea way overdue.
It's been a failing system and costing tax payers for way too long.

The rates have been going up and service's going down, and still unable to even break even.
I have mailed several items in the last year,that the product cost less than the postage. I use UPS or F.X. when possible.

The country is in deep Doooo, and the only ones paying the price is the consumer. I think the Federal Government should lead the way in making cuts to do something about it. Instead of being last.............What say you?

[PowPow]

I would not mind if they went to delivering every other day.
That would reduce operating cost by a significant amount.
I get very little business mail that wasn't preceded by a fax or an e-mailed pdf with the same info.
Folks who are dependent on snail mail are more likely to go pick it up themselves.

[bigbird09]

As much as I would hate to see it go, it isn't gonna be around much longer I would imagine.   With more and more stuff becoming digitized  its easier and cheaper for a company to send stuff via email or fax than it is to send a paper letter, a few companies will actually charge you more if they have to email you a bill then if you paid it electronically.  Most of the larger stuff that gets shipped is usually shipped via the brown truck or fed-ex,  although I still get a lot of smaller stuff in padded envelopes and such through USPS.  If the USPS would except and ship larger packages then they probably become more viable since it is usually easier to find a post office, than a UPS or a fed-ex store (nearest post office to me 2 miles, nearest UPS stored 40 minutes.)

[hunt-m-up]

My sister is the postmaster in a small town of about 250(being generous), good thing she's about to retire because they have no need for their own PO anymore. Like a lot of small towns in rural areas they've lost half their population and almost all of their small businesses. They have no need for a full-service PO, just someone to put their mail out and pick up the outgoing.

[bigbird09]

yep we have 2 within 5 miles, one in a town with a population of about 100 and the other about 150  they only keep one postmaster at the bigger one, and they are gone for lunch, so its usually only open from like 8 to 11 then 12 to 4

[PowPow]

What if the post offices, particularly the smaller rural locations, were to become a service opportunity for the growing population of retired folks, like the Peace Corp is for young folks.

If that were to happen, I could see myself serving at the post office part time in my retirement 12-15 years from now. If the people were there because they chose to be there, I believe the post office might become a center of the community again.

[Gary G]

I think the post office will soon be history or in need of a big bailout of the taxpayers. The forever stamps are seen as a hedge against inflation. As a result, they are selling more now to try and dig out of a hole. In the future, when rates go up, the smart folks will be using the forever stamps resulting in a big revenue loss for the USPS.

Lysander Spooner opened a postal service in competition with the USPS. His service was better for a lower price. The government decided that the post office was doomed unless they did something. Couldn't have a private firm outdoing the government. The passed a law that competition could not charge less than the government version.

[charles p]

I have lived in two NC towns that did not have city delivery.  I currently must drive five miles each way to the post office to send or receive mail, and I pay the same rate as everybody else.  The post office hours are rather short, so some days I miss out.  Outging mail leaves at 2:30 in the afternoon, and incoming  arrives about 10AM and is not put in the boxes until noon or later.  Becuase a need a medium size box to hold my volume of mail, I have to pay extra box rent.

[Pat/Rick]

They very well could cut their service to two or three days a week. Saturday? shouldn't even be an issue. Wouldn't bother me to see tues and thurs service only. Where does most of their expenditure come from? Wages or retirement or??

[Savage .250]

There`s no doubt they (the Government) needs to re-think it`s......business model.   

[Goatwhiskers]

As a recently retired rural carrier, let me make a few points.  First of all, by law, the Post Office is not supported by taxpayer money, that is to say not supported by appropriations by Congress.  It is required to be self supporting by its revenues.  Of course it's obvious that ain't happening, but in my opinion the biggest problem is that the P.O. is extremely topheavy with "managers" and "supervisors" and beancounters that do not actually produce anything.  Heck, they even have people whose only job is to monitor the "intranet" computer system and make sure no postmaster or clerk is going out on the internet.  All of these needless to say draw nice fat checks for occupying a windowless cubicle.  If the P.O. were run as most private businesses are run it would be a lot leaner and more efficient.  That having been said, there is a lot of potential money to be made, if not UPS  would not be already lined up to pick up Saturday delivery should Congress actually change the law and eliminate Saturday.  You should always try to remember that there are millions of people who live in mostly rural areas who depend on the P.O. to bring them their letters, bills, checks, and medications.  They are fixing to close a small local office whose customers are mostly poor, mostly elderly, and who don't have cars to go to the next local office 5 miles away. They may and probably will be added onto the local delivery route, but it does cause problems for old and mostly poorly educated folks to have to adapt to a new address and delivery system.  One other thing, and very important: remember before you talk about privatizing mail delivery that the sanctity of the U.S. Mail is guaranteed by the Constitution and laws but private delivery is not.  Another thing, private rates are much higher than postal rates, wonder why?  Here endeth the epistle.  Goatwhiskers the Elder    (Scatterbrain's reply reminded me of one other thing: we love to badmouth the Postal Service, but ours is still the cheapest and most efficient in the world.) G

[BBF]

Postal Services in Canada were changed many years ago by the late( not soon enoughIMO) Pierre Eliot Trudeau to become a Crown Corp. Service since has become way more expensive to the user, less service and less secure. Many PO's have disapeared and little Mom and Pop Stores became Postal Outlets.
 
Last I looked, a 1st Class letter within Canada was 54 cents and if you are subject to the HST tax in your province you can add 13 to 15 % Sales tax to that.

[Junior1942]

I called the postmistress  for my little pop ~400 town about this.  It's true, and although my town's PO isn't on the list, it's barely not on the list.  She told me something you guys should hear if you want your little local PO to stay open.  Buy your stamps from your local post office! 

If my PO can up stamp sales an average of $200 a month, it won't have to worry about getting closed.  Occasionally, I have bought stamps online from the USPS web site.  No more!

[nw_hunter]

I called the postmistress  for my little pop ~400 town about this.  It's true, and although my town's PO isn't on the list, it's barely not on the list.  She told me something you guys should hear if you want your little local PO to stay open.  Buy your stamps from your local post office! 

If my PO can up stamp sales an average of $200 a month, it won't have to worry about getting closed.  Occasionally, I have bought stamps online from the USPS web site.  No more!

So! Your saying you should support a post office such as this one, even if their operating at a deficit?
How far would you have to go to another office, and would it be even necessary? I realize we have friends and family working at these PO's that need to close, and jobs will be lost, but join the list!
I live in a community that depends on the timber industry to survive and they are shutting down or cutting back on employees to survive.My Grandson graduates HS this year and will have to leave to find employment. Nothing here anymore.We don't like it, but that's just the way it is.
The greed, and Unions in the USPS have led to these problems, and the tax payers keep on paying for it.

[Hodr]

Where to begin, where to begin?
The Post Office of the United States of America was first established by Ben Franklin for the Continental Congress to, "Bind the Nation Together", not to make a profit.  That's right folks the USPS is older than the United States.  For almost 200 years Postal revenue in excess of needs was taken by congress and put into the general fund. These revenues were spent by congress rather than being used to further improve infrastructure.  The workers in the Postal Service were originally unemployed veterans of the revoulutionary war.  Look up origins of Civil Service & George Washington.  Currently a vet gets a five point preference and a Purple Heart vet gets a ten point preference in hiring.  As late as 1969 the Postal service was the victim of systematic looting and hiring abuse by whichever party won the Presidential election.  At Post Offices such as St Louis, blacks and other minorities were fired every 89 days and rehired on day 90 so they could never pass probation.  This meant thaat a minority worker could work fourty years and never qualify for a pension. A union president named Sombratto led a strike in 1969 and willingly faced federal prison to do so.  Since 1970 by the Federal Office of Management and Budget there has been a measurable percentage increase in the delivery of mail, every year.  Lastly if you want your letter delivered for the 1964 price of a dime,  send me a pre 1965 quarter and I will send you three first class stamps.  Silver is over $25 an ounce now and I would sure like to make money on a deal like that. 
35 + years in UNIFORMED service to my country, Army & Postal, underpaid, spit on for my Army uniform coming home, maligned by those who have never picked up a letter sack.  Proud of my service.

Hodr

[magooch]

I live just outside of a "twin city" where two towns are vitually one (you can't tell which town you're in if you aren't a local), but we have two post offices and they are only about two and a half miles apart.  This is ridiculous as is the fact that there are also two city halls, two police departments, two fire departments, two water departments, two sewer departments, etc. etc.  I'm pretty sure that this is the case in a lot of other locales.

[Junior1942]

 

I called the postmistress  for my little pop ~400 town about this.  It's true, and although my town's PO isn't on the list, it's barely not on the list.  She told me something you guys should hear if you want your little local PO to stay open.  Buy your stamps from your local post office! 

If my PO can up stamp sales an average of $200 a month, it won't have to worry about getting closed.  Occasionally, I have bought stamps online from the USPS web site.  No more!

So! Your saying you should support a post office such as this one, even if their operating at a deficit?....

Yes, I am saying that.  This is a mostly Social Security town with old people who won't direct deposit their SS checks.  It's 5 miles to the next PO.  Might as well be 500 to an elderly person who doesn't drive.  Re: your town, try attracting industry to a town with no PO.

[Pat/Rick]

 Sounds like a job opportunity. Buy a nine passenger van and charge ten bucks a head for a weekly trip to the PO. Add two bucks for each stop thereafter.  Ah, free enterprise.

Hodr, excellent post and WELCOME HOME!!

[nw_hunter]

Where to begin, where to begin?
The Post Office of the United States of America was first established by Ben Franklin for the Continental Congress to, "Bind the Nation Together", not to make a profit.  That's right folks the USPS is older than the United States.  For almost 200 years Postal revenue in excess of needs was taken by congress and put into the general fund. These revenues were spent by congress rather than being used to further improve infrastructure.  The workers in the Postal Service were originally unemployed veterans of the revoulutionary war.  Look up origins of Civil Service & George Washington.  Currently a vet gets a five point preference and a Purple Heart vet gets a ten point preference in hiring.  As late as 1969 the Postal service was the victim of systematic looting and hiring abuse by whichever party won the Presidential election.  At Post Offices such as St Louis, blacks and other minorities were fired every 89 days and rehired on day 90 so they could never pass probation.  This meant thaat a minority worker could work fourty years and never qualify for a pension. A union president named Sombratto led a strike in 1969 and willingly faced federal prison to do so.  Since 1970 by the Federal Office of Management and Budget there has been a measurable percentage increase in the delivery of mail, every year.  Lastly if you want your letter delivered for the 1964 price of a dime,  send me a pre 1965 quarter and I will send you three first class stamps.  Silver is over $25 an ounce now and I would sure like to make money on a deal like that. 
35 + years in UNIFORMED service to my country, Army & Postal, underpaid, spit on for my Army uniform coming home, maligned by those who have never picked up a letter sack.  Proud of my service.

Hodr

Thanks for your service from another who served! Did you retire from the military, or are you counting your time as a mail carrier as well?

There are many who served our country on the forum, and are equally proud of our service. As far as carrying a mail sack! "Nope" Never carried one.I'm sure they can be a heavy load. I know as a retired cement finisher what hard work is, and I'm sure others on the forum also have had to work hard to get by, and many without the help of the Federal government, and being a member of a union.

As far as minority's being mistreated! Yes they were and not only by the Post Office.
Those day's like Franklin's day are behind us, and today's minority's are given special treatment because of their skin color. (Affirmative Action). I think it's time to end that and count us all Americans.

I believe if the first US Postmaster (Wise old Ben Franklin) came back today, he would be one of the first to want to see a change.

Another point! Wearing a uniform as a civilian, is in no way equal to the uniform of the armed services. With perhaps the exception of LEO's and Fire Fighters.

[Hodr]

Army service 66-69.  Had a major disagreement over actions taken, I offered to take a court.  Desk Jockey JAG Col. showed up and I was encouraged to walk away, no Reserves, no NG, no reenlistment, no reunions, no manly stories, just walk away.  Came home took GI bill and tried my best to get my head screwed back on straight.  Took Civil Servie test while taking night courses.  Retired 35 years from USPS a few years back.  It has been an intresting ride.  I have been sworn into the Sheriffs office, helped elect a couple of congessional types, been published, helped on the Korean War Memorial, buried my parents, been a casino cook, taught Scouts, helped raise our kids into thier late 20s (no drugs or arrests), so far they haven't come back to move in with us.  Married 30 to my wife years  Jan 2011. 
Now I seem to be opinionated, cranky and an old usetowasit. 

Hodr

[Mike38]

I would go along with the closing of some post offices, along with discontinuing Saturday delivery, as long as the pay was cut 17% for the one less day of work.

I live in a tiny village of 75 people. We have our own post office, with our own zip code. Stop and think about that. A post office building, two postal employees, it’s own zip code, for 75 people! There is no rural land in this zip code. Once you exit the village limits, it becomes another zip code. A zip code and post office for 50, maybe 60 acres of land! The post office building, the entire building is 180 square feet. No joke. My living room in my house is larger then the entire post office.

Talk about government waste?

[Hodr]

Post Office is open and operating 6 days a week. The number of hours needed is tightly controlled.  Closing on Saturday will not provide any decrease in man hours to get the job done.  The work force works a rotating 5 out of six days.  The only cost reduction is in building overhead, which is minimal.  The single biggest cost saver would be going to a 10 hour day, four days a week.

Hodr

[charles p]

I wonder what it costs to print, distribute, and inventory so many different stamps.  Seems like one in each demonination would be sufficient.  A lot of mail doesn't even carry a stamp. 

I predict that the UPS will introduce a new technology to reduce their costs.  It could be through self service post offices, an extensive use of bar coding, or something like that.

My little post office has three bins for outgoing mail.  The third bin is for Netflix.  Imagine that.  Guess it saves sorting costs.

[Dee]

I didn't read all the posts already submitted, but I'll put my two cents worth in anyway. The postal workers make better than most folks around here, with government benefits, and get as many paid holidays as the bankers, and more than the teachers, and that's a bunch. And yes, I AM INCLUDING their very generous benefits package as part of their salary.
With emails, FedEx, and UPS, who needs'em?

[Delbert]

I'm a retired Postal Carrier, having carried for over 28yrs. I've carried mail in -80 degrees near Chicago from 1978 to 1982 while you were in a nice warm office/home and I've carried mail in +110 heat from 1982 to 1984 when in Las Vegas and I carried a thermeter in the vehicles I was using and it would reach 140 degrees with NO AIR CONDITION, so whatever postal carriers get for an hourly wage---they deserve it.  I'll agree that there's a lot of waste in the Post Office, having see it first hand. The problem isn't with the hard working people of the Postal Service, it's from Washington itself, with all it's regulations and slow moving policies that WON'T let the Post Office implement any policies on it's own for the good of the community. If a stamp price hike is needed to overcome losing deficites, it takes around 3 yrs to get implemented, due to negotations back and forth by the committees which, by the time it's OK'd, that stamp is now, not worth enough to keep the PO in the black and another stamp increase is then needed immediately, and the process starts all over again. Also the Post Office DOES NOT operate by your taxes. It is a "BREAK EVEN" establishment for each year. Problem is that outside sources prevent the PO from being able to break even. Just like gas prices keep going up, but your paycheck stays the same, with you making due with what you have. Also the UNION is in place because of BAD MANAGER'S/Good Ole Boy circles, and bad decisions that they want the workers to do. Without the Union, I wouldn't of been able to retire----even if it was for medical reasons. You can say all you want about how bad the Postal Service is, but if you live 5 to 25 miles from any local Postal Community, you'll know how important the Postal Service really is with serving it's communities if your local Post Office closes. I've delivered to many older people in my years, and the Postal Carrier is the only person that most older patron's sees for months, and the Post Office Carrier is that person's emergency contact if anything happens while delivering the mail.
Del

[srussell]

a few years back some bean counter came up with the idea that we close some post offices and we did. the bean counter then said lets make less distribution hubs to save more money well be for the bean counter got his 3way i could put a letter in the mail going to the next county and it was there the same day at times always the next. well no that letter goes through that county and 90 miles north  gets sorted and is carred back the 90 miles drop ed of at a local post office ta ht was past up the day be for then delivered. tell be were the savings are on this one

[Cabin4]

Its about time. With the dramatic drop in mail volume, they should resize thier operations.

[nw_hunter]

I'm a retired Postal Carrier, having carried for over 28yrs. I've carried mail in -80 degrees near Chicago from 1978 to 1982 while you were in a nice warm office/home and I've carried mail in +110 heat from 1982 to 1984 when in Las Vegas and I carried a thermeter in the vehicles I was using and it would reach 140 degrees with NO AIR CONDITION, so whatever postal carriers get for an hourly wage---they deserve it.

I don't think anyone here thinks mail carry is an easy job, but so are a lot of jobs.......Some much, much harder with less pay. I think your about 40 degrees off with your low temp. The lowest ever recorded was in Alaska, and it was just shy of minus 80. Illinois low temp was -36 in 1999.

I think with the wind chill in the windy city, it would prob feel like -80

[Ladobe]

May have changed, but when I lived in Carmel-by-the-Sea, CA (93921) 35-40 years ago there was no postal street delivery for either residential or commercial - everybody had to go to the very small PO with only the one postmaster employee, 3 parking spots and pick their mail up from a postal mail box.   Surprisingly maybe, there was always an available parking spot and no line at the PO.    It was just considered part of the quaintness of this very excentric artists community of about 2000 at the time.   The homes had no street addresses, but many of them did have names.    Published maps could be acquired at the shops and boutiques along Ocean Blvd that showed where the named homes were.   Our home was called the Whale's Tale while we had it, and had a Disney like Moby Dick plaquard out front with that name on it.   We told wannabee visitors to come to the third house SE of Vista on Mission to find us, which was a typical way of directing people to your home there.    The rest of the cities on the Monterey Penisula all had regular mail service though (Monterey, Pacific Grove, Pebble Beach, Carmel Valley, Carmel Highlands, Del Rey Oaks, Seaside, etc).    Like Pacific Grove, Carmel still had some pretty strange laws on the books back then too... like it was illegal to eat ice cream on public streets, or wear high heeled shoes without a permit.    No doubt Carmel was a model for what CA politics and resident attitudes have become statewide, but it was sure a beautiful and fun place to live for young newly weds in the late 60's to mid 70's who wanted to get out of the San Francisco Bay area.

[ihookem]

I think they are efficient to send a letter for 44 cents. However, they need to stream line like everyone else or die. How about all the days off they used to get payed like presidents day, let them take off unpaid for now on? I never had a paid day off in my life.