There is nothing wrong with bringing facts, opinion and or conjecture to the debate. But when some people just ignore or warp facts, that is the issue that this thread has evolved into. The South’s survival would have been in their hands and that would have been their responsibility, good, bad or indifferent. In any case, what the South would be today is pure conjecture, not fact, not opinion. What Lincoln did in the historical record, is fact, not opinion, not conjecture. Weather you support Lincoln or not, is opinion, not fact, not conjecture. There can be no two ways about it. Lincoln was a criminal. And that is a fact and the historical record is proof. The fact the history books fail to acknowledge this does not diminish the impact/fact. It simply tells us that our government will do or say anything for political expediency. I think we know this to be a concept that our government and others do all the time.