Author Topic: Fire lapping a .22 LR ? (Read 5993 times)

DJWright · « **on:** February 11, 2011, 04:12:29 AM »

Hi Veral,
Wondering if there is a way to lap the bore of my Ruger single six .22 LR?

Thanks for your help.

Veral · « **Reply #1 on:** February 23, 2011, 06:25:31 PM »

Absolutely! Just get my lap kit and follow the instructions. You'll do it with standard velocity long rifles, and the best brand are CCI standard velocity or pistol match.

You'll find that lapping 22 rimfire guns, whether rifle or handgun, will be VERY rewarding. It turns almost anything into a tack driver and tightens up the groups for even the most expensive match rifles, normally shrinking groups by about half on those premium barrels. With production guns, groups as large as 2 1/2 inches often shrink to dime size.

Unless you have 100 or more 22 rimfires, buy just one lap kit.

BUGEYE · « **Reply #2 on:** February 24, 2011, 06:34:52 AM »

I checked your site but can't any order info on fire-lapping kits.

DJWright · « **Reply #3 on:** February 25, 2011, 04:08:23 AM »

I have your lapping compound Veral, but have long since lost the directions. I know how to do centerfire rounds, but wondering about rimfires. How do you get the compound on just the rimfire bullets?

Bugeye, check out the order form for the lap kits.

Veral · « **Reply #4 on:** February 25, 2011, 06:10:30 PM »

The lap kit is $18.50 plus $4 shipping to any US address.

To prepare 22 rimfire lap bullets, choose the slowest ammo you can find with 40 gr or heavier bullets. CCI pistol match is great, and their standard velocity is real good.

Wipe a tiny amount of abrasive into the grooves on the bullet, then wipe it ALL OFF with a forward motion, using a paper towel. YOu can load this in clips or magazine and fire it.

When I fire lap a rimfire I like to shoot 5 shot groups, at 25 yards if a handgun, 50 yards if a rifle. I prefer shooting at a steel plate. When the 5 shot groups quit getting smaller you are done lapping. 15 shots, or three groups takes care of many guns, but shoot till the groups quit shrinking. I haven't seen, tried or heard of a gun yet that wasn't improved by cutting groups at least in half.

My best two were a Ruger 10 22, which shot almost any ammo into 2 inches or larger before lapping. It would cut a grass stalk every time at 50 yards after lapping. I hope the guy who stole it has a misshap that puts one of it's bullets precisely through one of his vital organs.

The other was a Colt huntsman which I had owned for 30 years before I lapped it. It shot any ammo, cheap or expensive, into 1 1/4 inches at 25 yards, for all those years. I used to shoot a brick of ammo a week through it, but all those thousands of rounds didn't help smooth the bore. The day I lapped it, I clamped a scope on so I could get some precision. Groups were the same as with iron sights. I've forgotten now, but I believe my third group on a steel plate, didn't increase in size with the five shots. I switched to a 10 shot clip of clean ammo and printed a half inch dot on the plate. I could not see any growth in the dot size after the first shot.

I've had hundreds of reports equally exciting from customers. All good, Never a bad one in all the years I've been selling the lap kit. Remember when you order. One kit will do about a hundred blued 22 rimfire guns. Ruger stainless is the only hard ones to lap, but treat them the same. Shoot till groups quit shrinking. Then switch to clean ammo. No need to clean the gun up after if you wipe the lap ammo clean as discribed above.

DJWright · « **Reply #5 on:** March 05, 2011, 04:34:39 AM »

Thank you Veral. . . . . I'm gunna get after it and get it lapped.

BUGEYE · « **Reply #6 on:** March 05, 2011, 09:14:27 AM »

Quote from: DJWright on March 05, 2011, 04:34:39 AM

Thank you Veral. . . . . I'm gunna get after it and get it lapped.

I would appreciate it if you would give a report when you get done.
I'm really curious.

Veral · « **Reply #7 on:** March 05, 2011, 05:04:53 PM »

I would appreciate it if a whole bunch of you would give your reports! If there's a bad one it will be the first I've heard about in 25 years of selling my lap kits! Lets keep the reports primarily on 22 rimfires for this post. Tell about any other guns you've lapped too, but keep them brief, with just maybe a before and after difference or whatever seems important to tell. Lay out the details for your rimfires, including 22 magnums. If the whole US knew how easily the accuracy of their rimfire guns could be dramitically improved, and at so little cost, I wouldn't be able to keep up with lap kits for a couple of years!

BUGEYE · « **Reply #8 on:** March 06, 2011, 03:04:27 AM »

veral, over at RFC there's a guy that says fire lapping will ruin a savage rimfire because of shallow rifling. mine is a savage.
what's your opinion?

Veral · « **Reply #9 on:** March 06, 2011, 07:21:00 PM »

Savage could very well be right if you were to use someone elses lap kit or recommendations. But not if you follow mine. There will be a little bit of measurable wear at the rifling origin, but it is microscopic and benificial, as it gets the bullets started more precisely. Lands and grooves are both polished and straightened by the same amount, using the LBT lap kit, so there is no dimensional change in rifling depth. Diameter may increase by 1/4 of one thousandths of an inch if you have to lap a lot to get the tighest groups, but if you measure a large bunch of 22 rimfires you'll find that barrel diameters vary about .003, with no maker holding them as tight as one would think necessary.
On average my lap process would open diameter around 15th of the normal manufacturer variation range.

In layman terms, diameter doesn't change at all. Rifling doesn't wear at all but is only fixed to what high grade target rifle barrels are. There is only one way to produce that kind of precision. PROPER lapping.

BUGEYE · « **Reply #10 on:** March 07, 2011, 04:44:35 AM »

thanks veral, I'll order a kit asap.

fm2 · « **Reply #11 on:** March 07, 2011, 03:43:39 PM »

I've a lapping kit in my order as well. I can't wait to give it a try.

fm2 · « **Reply #12 on:** March 31, 2011, 07:54:34 AM »

I received my kit. Has anyone used subsonic ammo to lap with?

Veral · « **Reply #13 on:** April 05, 2011, 08:27:27 PM »

REad the instructins which came with the kit a bit more carefully. Subsonic ammo is mandatory. Slower the better. Shorts are fine, but CCI pistol match can't be beat, while CCI standard velocity are only slightly faster and work very well.. Many so called subsonic loads actually aren't or are moving a bit too fast to be good for lapping.

fm2 · « **Reply #14 on:** April 07, 2011, 07:55:18 AM »

Quote from: Veral on April 05, 2011, 08:27:27 PM

REad the instructins which came with the kit a bit more carefully. Subsonic ammo is mandatory. Slower the better. Shorts are fine, but CCI pistol match can't be beat, while CCI standard velocity are only slightly faster and work very well.. Many so called subsonic loads actually aren't or are moving a bit too fast to be good for lapping.

Hi Veral, thanks for the reply and your patience. I understand about using ammo that is subsonic.

I went looking for the suggested cci pistol match, but found none. In trying to stick to the concepts of, #1 slower the better and #2 bullets of 40 grains I thought the
ammo labeled subsonic might be a goods substitute. If I could trust the labeling, which now seems dubious at best. How reliable is the relative velocity printed
on CCI's ammo box?

The best matches I found where Winchester subsonic , Remington target, and federal automatch. Maybe I should
keep looking for a little while.

Is there a relatively reliable lookup table that lists 22 ammo characteristics for various ammo?

shakey · « **Reply #15 on:** April 07, 2011, 08:31:30 AM »

With the thought of "slower is better" ...How about the CCI CB Long?

It is shown at 710 fps with a 29 gr bullet? Would the light weight bullet offset the advantage of the very slow speed?

Veral · « **Reply #16 on:** April 11, 2011, 08:57:04 PM »

If you have some of the CB longs they will work just fine, but require a few more shots, which is no big deal. The CB shorts, or regular shorts will also work OK, but the jump through a LR chamber allows some gas blowby which can blow off some of the lap compound. Again, no big deal, just lap a few more rounds.

Longer bullets lap fastest though. I haven't used them but the 60 gr bullet ammo which is put up in short cases would be the ultimate, as they are low velocity. If you try them, please post results as there is a chance they might cause some leading due to higher pressures required to accelerate the heavy slugs. If I get a negative report on them I'll pull this recommendation instantly.

You'll find it a rare thing that I post recommendations which I haven't proven to be the best apporach to the question asked. I prefer to say I don't know when I don't have a proven answer, but specs of this ammo make it look good for the purpose.

ralphwolf · « **Reply #17 on:** May 07, 2011, 05:59:00 AM »

Hello Veral, all,
I wanted to refresh my memory of a conversation with you about 15 years ago on firelapping my guns and did a search. Luck sent me here.
I registered because I want to toss my experience into the mix. I've done a coupla 22 rifles, a 22WMR, a Colt 380, a 357 and my Beretta 96 - 40 cal over the years.
Rifles are all more accurate. 357 benifited dramatically. The 96, not so much but the 380 is lots better.
Combined with a good dry lube in the bore every one cleans FAR easier - mostly a dry mop...
I'm going to lap a new Savage fluted Mark II w/60 Grainers. Any last minute advice?

So, I'm with ya, Veral. Sure NEVER harmed one of mine!

Mark

Veral · « **Reply #18 on:** May 07, 2011, 08:01:49 PM »

No new advise but a request. Please let us all know how the 60 gr bullets work. Particularly whether they are prone to leading. The long bullets promise to do the quickest and best job of lapping of any ammo made. Leading would be the only issue if they are moving too fast.

Benaiah1 · « **Reply #19 on:** May 08, 2011, 11:59:03 AM »

New guy here... How do I order one of these kits? Thanks!

Veral · « **Reply #20 on:** May 13, 2011, 08:49:30 PM »

Go to the LBT website LBTMoulds.com or email me with any further questions. LBTisAccuracy@localnet.com

blhof · « **Reply #21 on:** May 26, 2011, 05:16:49 PM »

I used your lapping compound that I had left over from doing my 357max, to do my Ruger single six and was so impressed that I tried it on a Winchester 22 auto rifle that I had inherited from my father-in-law, it had never been cleaned and after much cleaning it only shot fair groups at 50yds so I lapped it too, it took about 30 or so rounds before the group stabilized, but it was less than half of the original group, now it's good enough to shoot squirred and rabbits.

Veral · « **Reply #22 on:** May 26, 2011, 08:56:53 PM »

A delightful report, thank you!

I got a report back around 1995 which stuck with me. ---- The customer had a Stevens 22 which he had owned since 1935, as I recall. It had never shot better than 2 1/2 inch groups at 50 years for all those years. After lapping it consistently printed half inch groups at 50 yards, which any cheap ammo.

I guess the many years he had owned this junker and put up with it's poor accuracy is what impressed me most. I've had hundreds of reports with similar results.

paul105 · « **Reply #23 on:** July 21, 2011, 03:19:52 PM »

Quote from: Veral on May 07, 2011, 08:01:49 PM

No new advise but a request. Please let us all know how the 60 gr bullets work. Particularly whether they are prone to leading. The long bullets promise to do the quickest and best job of lapping of any ammo made. Leading would be the only issue if they are moving too fast.

Veral,

I fire lapped two 4 1/4" Ruger Mark III 22/45s with the 60gr Aguila SSS ammo this afternoon. I only shot 15 lap rounds from each gun. There was no leading at all -- both bores were bright and smooth after lapping.

A couple of months ago, I chronographed this ammo at 880 fps from a 16" 1-9 twist barreled 10/22.

From what I've read, most standard twist .22s don't shoot this ammo very well. The above mentioned 1-9 twist 10/22 shoots about 1/2" groups at 25 yds with it. I will fire lap this barrel and report back.

Before fire lapping, both of the 22/45s shot 3" plus groups with this Aguila 60gr SSS, so I didn't expect to see groups tighten much as the lapping progressed and they didn't.

I was running out of time and it was very windy, so I only had a chance to run some CCI Quik-Shok Subsonic Segmented Hollow Points thru both guns -- both under 1" and most likely will improve with better conditions.

I'll update when I get to it.

Paul

Ken Rummer · « **Reply #24 on:** August 30, 2011, 06:22:09 AM »

Veral
You recommend putting the abrasive into the bullet grooves for the 22 and imbedding the abrasive between two plates with large pistol bullets. Why the difference? Would it be harmful to imbed abrasive into the 22 bullets?

anachronism · « **Reply #25 on:** August 30, 2011, 04:58:09 PM »

I'm not Veral, but the issue is likely because you are handling live ammunition, and opposed to imbedding abrasive in a bare bullet. I would also be concerned about reducing the diameter of the .22 bullet and not getting even lapping. Verals method works. I've done it.

Veral · « **Reply #26 on:** September 05, 2011, 09:04:35 PM »

The main reason for putting abrasive in the grooves only, and wiping the rounds clean with rimfire ammo is so compound doesn't get smeared around inside the action. You can run these lap rounds through a semi auto, or any clip or tube feed gun without making a mess, and lapping speed seems to be about as good as if the bullets were imbedded between plates.

The post which mentioned a concern about reducing bullet diameter is a valid concern, as it's easy to do. All things said and done, the wiped clean method follows the KISS principle, which I always adhere to if there is no advantage to getting scientific!

JustaShooter · « **Reply #27 on:** September 06, 2011, 05:06:15 PM »

Hey Veral, I have an old Mossberg .22 with a rough bore that I'd like to lap. The gun is a pretty good shooter already, and I figure I'd like to see if it could be improved with your lapping kit.

Problem is, I must be a bit thicker than the average bear, but I can't seem to figure out how much shipping would be for the lap kit. I see where the shipping weight is listed, but no where I can turn that into a shipping cost to get it to me here in North East Ohio...

Just a Shooter