Author Topic: A Good-Bye to Big Oil is Coming Closer...!!!!!!!!!! (Read 1939 times)

TM7 · « **on:** February 12, 2011, 11:28:25 AM »

Two recent developments have given promise to escaping the clench of Big Oil....clean hydrogen fuel is getting closer.

First is the development of dendritic hydrogen electroylsis methods which use Sun energy in a photosynthetic method of producing cheap hydrogen....and 10 times more efficient than natural photosynthesis.

Problem has always been how to store, ship and market hydrogen, which pound per pound has approx 3 times the energy of carbon bonded gasoline.

The second development involves a nanotech encapsulation process which liquifies hydrogen without pressure. The liguid hydrogen would be used much like current gasoline, and with little if any modifications to engines or storage tanks. If this is possible the ramifications are huge.

Artilce about British company that just released some of this info:

Is Hydrogen Fuel Closer to Reality?
Published on January 31st, 2011 by EnergyRefuge.com

Posted in Europe, hydrogen

Replacing fossil fuels with hydrogen is not a new idea but storage problems have been hampering the application of this technology. However, a new technology announced this week promises a breakthrough that could see carbon-free fuel delivered to the masses.

The technology is the result of years of research at Rutherford Appleton Laboratory near Oxford, England. It was led by Professor Stephen Bennington, who worked with scientists from University College London and Oxford University. A spin-out company called Cella Energy has been formed to develop the fuel.

Methodology
To create the fuel, they took high-energy materials and encapsulated them by using a nanostructuring technique called coaxial electrospraying. The most exciting aspect of the technology is that early tests have indicated that the fuel could power regular combustion engine vehicles without engine modification.

The researchers found a way of making tiny micro-fibres 30 times smaller than a human hair. These form a tissue-like material that is safe to handle in air. ***The new material contains as much hydrogen for a given weight as the high pressure tanks currently used to store hydrogen and can also be made in the form of micro beads that can be poured and pumped like a liquid.

Perfect fuel
“In some senses hydrogen is the perfect fuel; it has three times more energy than petrol per unit of weight, and when it burns it produces nothing but water. But the only way to pack it into a vehicle is to use very high pressures or very low temperatures, both of which are expensive to do. Our new hydrogen storage materials offer real potential for running cars, planes and other vehicles that currently use hydrocarbons on hydrogen, with little extra cost and no extra inconvenience to the driver”, said Professor Stephen Bennington, lead scientist on the project.

Cella Energy has received financing from Thomas Swan & Co Ltd, a specialist chemical company. The companies signed an agreement on January 24th.

“Consumers want to be able to travel 300-400 miles before they have to refuel. And when they do have to fill up they want to be able to do it as quickly as possible. Existing hydrogen storage methods do not meet these consumer expectations, but the ones we are developing have the potential to do just this” said Stephen Voller, the new CEO of Cella Energy.

Article by Antonio Pasolini, a Brazilian writer and video art curator based in London, UK. He holds a BA in journalism and an MA in film and television

http://blog.cleantechies.com/2011/01/31/is-hydrogen-fuel-closer-to-reality/

FYI....TM7
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Mohawk · « **Reply #1 on:** February 12, 2011, 01:21:33 PM »

Won't happen.

skarke · « **Reply #2 on:** February 12, 2011, 01:27:24 PM »

Hey TM,

With the newly developed technique for fracking that has been used to recover natural gas now being applied to oil fields, existing oil fields will be able to produce dramatically higher yields. I'm sure that you caught the many reports of Schlumberger's new process.

http://naturalgasforeurope.com/schlumberger-introduces-new-fracking-technique.htm

I am frankly pretty tired of being so dad gum cold this week, we sure could use some global warming

Seriously though, fossil fuels, whether we view them as good or bad, just got cheaper. The only way that we can stop this new technology is by fiat.

http://www.ecorazzi.com/2011/02/11/epa-proposes-comprehensive-investigation-of-fracking/

These new technologies are GREAT!!! Oil, hydrogen, methane from cows' hind ends, I don't care. I for one want cheap energy, and oil can and is being burned pretty darn cleanly now in the US.

The Hermit · « **Reply #3 on:** February 12, 2011, 02:06:56 PM »

If supplies of any products that will work in a vehicle increases, in theory prices should go down.
World wide demand is increasing and these products will be priced in US dollars, the value of which is decreasing, thus I think prices will continue to rise.
A promising feature is a cleaner environment.
Thank you for bringing this to our attention. Cleaner air and a potential investment idea. I wouldn't be surprised if Big oil buys in with take over targets.

The Hermit

Sourdough · « **Reply #4 on:** February 12, 2011, 03:24:21 PM »

Wishful thinking!

I'll believe it when I see the cars on the dealership floor, and hydrogen filling stations.

Till then it's a pipe dream. Been hearing "it's just around the corner" for 15 years.

Hit or Miss · « **Reply #5 on:** February 12, 2011, 03:26:34 PM »

Bring it on! I'd like to see a viable alternative to gasoline for auto's. To be viable it needs to be developed with zero goobermint subsidies. It should live or die on it's own merit.

Shu · « **Reply #6 on:** February 12, 2011, 03:51:24 PM »

This technology is still several years away, probably 20 + years. The nano technology is done at the lab level not a production level. I would love to see it come about quicker but it's just not going to happen.

A lot of new technology looks great unfortunately it is not adaptable into production.

Hooker · « **Reply #7 on:** February 12, 2011, 04:55:47 PM »

If they can produce the Hydrogen cheap enough it will make a great alternative , but not a replacement for gasoline.
Oil will be around as long as lubricants are required. There are some really great benefits to burning non hydrocarbon fuels like hydrogen, methane and propane. The best one is that your oil does not get dirty so extended oil life means lower operating cost and longer engine life.
No one reading this will live long enough to see petroleum based fuels be replaced and petroleum products will be here even then.

Pat

The Hermit · « **Reply #8 on:** February 12, 2011, 05:08:47 PM »

Hooker, now ya got me depressed. I was planning on living forever or at least another 75 years.
By then, they wont let me drive anyways.

The Hermit

bigbird09 · « **Reply #9 on:** February 12, 2011, 08:19:32 PM »

I don't see it taking off anytime soon. My question is though, what are they using to "suspend" the hydrogen in a liquid, and what will it produce when it burns? As far as methane fracking how many of you seen that show gasland I think it was called, its not really that safe, suprised we haven't heard much more about it. Its a neat technology and I would be glad for it to show up and relieve some of these high fuel prices, but until I see it at my local refill station my hopes aren't set to high. Ohh for you nay-sayers out there, current projection say that oil will only last for another 20-60 years, depending on whos doing the saying.

oldandslow · « **Reply #10 on:** February 13, 2011, 03:54:03 AM »

Yep, it's all the fault of those greedy oil companies. Price of crude dropped $5 a bbl. last week but gasoline prices went up 4 cents a gallon here Friday. Can anyone say "wholesaler"?

skarke · « **Reply #11 on:** February 13, 2011, 06:53:39 AM »

Oil prices are actually oil futures (meaning prices for future delivery). Schlumberger's technique will increase supply for at least the next decade. While demand is also increasing, increasing current yields by 20% in a supply and demand environment that produces huge swings in price with just a 2% swing in inventories, well, we don't have to be economists to do that math.

I am a HUGE fan of hydrogen technology, but I also cannot see the logic in destroying our economy by artificially inflating energy prices by unreasonable drilling bans of technique or location. The new fracking technology could break the back of OPEC in short order, reducing demands for foriegn imports of petroleum by more than 1/2. This should buy us enough time to bring hydrogen, micro nuclear, and other great new technologies to fruition without the pain of destroying the American way of life.

I envision in my lifetime nearly free energy, provided that we allow development of principally nuclear power (small and micro nuclear reactor technology). If we supplement that with clean burning fossil fuel techniques, hydrogen, and anything else that works, we'll get greener, and cheaper, based upon innovation and market opportunity, not dictates from our extra-legislative power brokers like the EPA.

Pat/Rick · « **Reply #12 on:** February 13, 2011, 07:27:38 AM »

How long have "flex-fuel" cars been available now? How many alternative fuel source gas stations do you see? Yep, none. Don't hold your breath folks. Big oil runs the globe, anybody thinks they're going to give that up this easily?

Shu · « **Reply #13 on:** February 14, 2011, 01:25:30 AM »

Unfortunately what happens in labs these days can be very hard to transition to production. The cost is usually outrageous. I am in favor of alternate energy sources. Hydrogen being a great one. Big oil does make money and will try to suppress some technologies but with enough mandates alternative fuels will be found. The Govt is requiring the military to find alternate fuels and reduce petroleum usage.

Consider the US Navy has many operating nuclear reactors without having an incident. I think that makes enough of a statement on safety.

http://www.yourownpower.com/Power/ is a link to Chena Alaska and how they power there town. Pretty smart way to go and no dependence on OPEC.

mtbugle · « **Reply #14 on:** February 14, 2011, 07:47:38 AM »

bear in mind the nuc vessels utilize slow fission fuels, not fast fission fuels of war heads. if they were ruptured it would be a steam explosion not a nuclear one.

Shu · « **Reply #15 on:** February 14, 2011, 08:40:26 AM »

There is a huge difference between reactor and bomb. Chernobyl and 3 mile island were not in danger of blowing up. For a reactor to have a huge meltdown (well an American one) It would take alot of things to go wrong at once. You might have better odds of winning the lottery.

I am in favor of conservation of resources and recycling. I think it should be done logically and without the OMG WE ARE KILLING THE PLANET mentality. Most sportsman belonging to these boards are probably like minded.

A lot of folks would love to tell OPEC what to kiss.

Sourdough · « **Reply #16 on:** February 14, 2011, 10:43:23 AM »

Unfortunately due to Chernoble and Three Mile Island, the uninformed people of this country will never let us put up another nuclear power plant. There is a new plant that was built in Hartsville Tennesee. It is setting idle. Environmental groups sued to stop the fuel from being delievered, and now the locals have decided they don't want it in their back yard. They were all for it when it was being built and they were getting paid to do the labor for construction and money from workers was being spent locally.

Shu · « **Reply #17 on:** February 15, 2011, 01:07:40 PM »

Legitimate alternative energy sources need to be found, along with recycling aand conservation. I am all for these. The folks in Chena Alaska have tapped into geothermal very very cheaply. With the amount of geothermal, solar and wind America could produce alot of electricity. It will take a composite of sources to reduce the amount of petroleum we use. I always do have hope though.

skarke · « **Reply #18 on:** February 15, 2011, 02:33:14 PM »

Folks, I don't want to drift too far from TKs original post, but I will say this. There is so much misinformation about nuclear power that it is often impossible to have a reasoned discussion. Nuclear powered is cheap and plentiful. Microreactors are very hard to sabotage, if not impossible. We all owe it to our kids to make informed choices about our energy future.

skarke · « **Reply #19 on:** February 17, 2011, 02:39:39 PM »

You might be right TM, but consider this. Might the citing you posted be the equivalent of something coming from the John Birch Society, except from the left? I haven't seen too many postings from climateprogress.org that calls anyone who leans right as anything other than a planet destroying Nazi.

IMHO, I think we need all forms of power that can be developed, non-fossil renewable, non-fossil non-renewable, and yes, clean burning fossil fuel technologies. Economies of scale are everything to cost calculating.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pebble_bed_reactor
http://www.nextenergynews.com/news1/next-energy-news-toshiba-micro-nuclear-12.17b.html
http://www.off-grid.net/2008/10/31/micro-nuclear-plants-for-local-power/

Shu · « **Reply #20 on:** February 18, 2011, 02:41:31 AM »

Geothermal is a good alternative source. There is enough of it to power every house in America, it just needs to be tapped. Nuclear power is not the great evil nor is coal fired power plants.. The great evil is the refusal to investigate alternative energy with clarity of thought and not throw all our eggs in one basket. France uses alot of nuclear power and we know how much smarter they say they are

. Hydrogen fuel cell technology is coming along, still a few years away. I look forward to the day when there is no more dependence on foriegn oil. It may be bad for thier economies but it is better than being held hostage.
Amercia unfortunately spends to much of it's time meddling in foriegn politics and needs to take care of its own.

Splitting a hydrogen atom and capturing all that released energy would be great.

Shu · « **Reply #21 on:** February 18, 2011, 05:08:50 AM »

Hydrogen has alot of energy, burned or split. Unfortunately we will never move away from petroleum, moving parts will always need lubrication and alot of materials not just fuels are petroleum based. Reducing the need as a fuel is a great start though. Plastics, clothing paint, rubber, ropes are all made from petroleum products.

Unfortunately big oil has alot of influence with government and technology drivers. You can bet your next years pay check those with the big purse strings know how close something is to being developed and can apply a little more money or reduce the it a little to control how far the technology goes. Fortunately scientists can be hard headed and keep pushing limits.

The geothermal map for Texas is huge, and using power plants like the one in Chena Alaska would go along way in producing good usable power.

bigbird09 · « **Reply #22 on:** February 22, 2011, 12:31:25 PM »

Quote

Unfortunately we will never move away from petroleum, moving parts will always need lubrication and alot of materials not just fuels are petroleum based.

If we keep buring fossil fuels at the rate that we are going, especially without any new drilling, we won't have any choice. The highest number that I have seen for how long are petroleum reserve will last is 65 years, the average being around 35-40, not sure about you, but unless we find new sources of fuel and energy I expect to see the end of our petroleum reserve in my lifetime.

nomosendero · « **Reply #23 on:** February 27, 2011, 08:35:19 AM »

Quote

According to many sources, the Utah crude oil deposits are massive. Large enough to to bring the price of oil crashing down. Large enough to eliminate America's dependence on foreign oil

We already have enough of our own oil to not be dependent on foreign oil
even without this discovery. But people are not yet tired of enviormentalists & as you term it Rothchild/Rockefeller folks & the bought polititians. Maybe we can change that, I don't know.

oldandslow · « **Reply #24 on:** February 27, 2011, 11:15:23 AM »

Big oil is not going away. It may become Big oil and hydrogen or whatever else becomes viable. Maybe Big oil and algae.

You can bet that whatever starts to replace oil as a fuel will have the oil companies in the middle of it. After all they have the money and the infrastructure to distribute it already pretty much in place. All they have to do is add the fueling stations to their existing facilities. They aren't just going to quitely go out of business.

streak · « **Reply #25 on:** February 27, 2011, 12:43:58 PM »

A little food for thought!

At present with the oil being produced from the Bakken shale and the Niobrara, the pipeline system is not capable of handling the amount of oil being brought online at this time. A lot of the oil is being transported by tankers! And remember the potential reserves of the Bakken supposedly are greater than Saudi Arabia! So one might ponder about in the near future that as the vast amounts of oil are being produced and brought to market that dependence on foreign oil would become less. Also remember that oil reserves in ANWR have not been tapped thanks to the " bunny huggers' and for the most part Democratic congressman.
With these scenarios it is conceivable that prices could fall.
One only has to look at the case of natural gas prices. Prices are very low as a result of the
resource plays that have sprung such as the Barnett Shale, Haynesville shale,Fayetteville shale,
etc. Huge deposits of natural gas have been found and the market is saturated with reserves and thus prices are low.
Why the federal government has not pushed for more production of natural gas engines for automobiles and started to enhance the infrastructure to set up natural gas refueling stations puzzles me. With all of the natural gas being produced this would still be an economical and clean burning fuel. The technology is here already! I have already seen autos and large suv`s and trucks with natural gas engines installed and mileage on one tank of natural gas going from 300 to 340 miles.

So why wait?? Natural gas resources are large and will remain so for a very long time!