Author Topic: Wolf Management Tactics  (Read 1577 times)

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Offline Pot-Bellied Stallion

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Wolf Management Tactics
« on: February 12, 2011, 03:52:54 PM »
Ok, I have done it.  I opened this topic in Western Big Game Hunting because I think those individuals throughout the Western states and Canada who have experience with the timber wolf should be able to share their stories.  Those folks in Alaska and the Western Canadian Provinces have had a sight more experience with this species than those of us in Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Colorado, Utah, Washington, and Oregon (probably Northern Nevada and Northern California soon) combined.  Their input, whether it be in helpful hints for legislation, stories of encounters, impacts on game herds, etc. should be a welcomed interaction to those of us who are just learning to deal with the invasion.
So please expand our database of knowledge on these "introduced (not re-introduced)" critters.
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Offline Dogshooter

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Re: Wolf Management Tactics
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2011, 06:21:00 AM »
I live in SW Wyoming and have had encounters with wolves in my area even tho the feds said they would not leave Yellowstone. I attached a picture of the tracking collar movement of one wolf in a seven month period. So get prepared America. Coming soon to a deer herd near you!
Perception is everything. For instance, a crowded elevator smells different to a midget.

Offline Dogshooter

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Re: Wolf Management Tactics
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2011, 06:30:59 AM »
A story to add to my previous post. Last fall I was hunting deer in the Uinta Mountains. I had carried a lawn chair and a small cooler and my gun to a brush pile overlooking a beaver pond and set in for a full day, enjoying the weather. At dusk, I carried my cooler and gun back to my truck and went back for the lawn chair. As I walked back up the small game trail toward my truck. I had a young cow moose run toward me on the trail. I stepped to the side and she rushed past me breathing very hard. Stepping back on the trail I was met , at about 6 or 7 yards by 5 wolves. They growled and snapped their jaws and proceeded past me on bith sides. I can assure you, wolves are MUCH larger than a coyote and having this many this close was the colsest I have come to a near death experience. All I had to defend myself was a lawn chair.  I don't go in the mountains anymore without a large caliber sidearm anymore. While calling coyotes this winter, I have had a few wolves come in to the call. But. alas, it is against the law to shoot them..... ::)
Perception is everything. For instance, a crowded elevator smells different to a midget.

Offline Wyo. Coyote Hunter

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Re: Wolf Management Tactics
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2011, 07:24:41 AM »
 >:( :(  Montana used vigilanties (?) to clean out the criminals in SW Montana in the 1860's because there was NO LAW...Now the emeny is the "law".. Our actions should be clear..Wolves are the enemy.. :D ;)

Offline Pot-Bellied Stallion

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Re: Wolf Management Tactics
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2011, 01:04:41 PM »
This article by Eric Barker is from today's Lewiston, Idaho Tribune

Congressman Mike Simpson fast-tracked wolf delisting legislation Monday by tacking language onto a federal budget bill that would strip Endangered Species Act protection from wolves.
 
Simpson's measure would reinstate a 2009 U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service rule that removed wolves in Idaho, Montana and portions of eastern Oregon, eastern Washington and northern Utah from the list of federally protected species. It would not be subject to judicial review that has twice overturned wolf delisting rules in the region.
 
"It makes no sense to call wolves in Idaho and Montana an endangered species. Not only do wolf populations far exceed recovery goals, but without proper management, those populations have grown to the point where they are adversely impacting other wildlife populations in the region and wreaking havoc for ranchers, hunters and public land users in Idaho", said Simpson, R-Idaho 
 
The budget measure that will carry the language, known as a continuing resolution, would fund the federal government through September. If it fails to pass, the government would shut down. That means those who oppose wolf delisting would have to strip the language from the bill or stop the bill and shut down the government. A companion bill would also have to pass in the Senate. Montana senators Max Baucus and Jon Tester have introduced similar legislation in a stand-alone bill. 
 
A number of others, such as Sen. Orin Hatch of Utah and Rep. Denny Rehberg of Montana, have introduced bills that would strip ESA protections from wolves across the entire nation. 
 
Idaho's delegation has split on whether wolf delisting should be done regionally or nationally. Last fall, senators Mike Crapo and Jim Risch introduced a bill that would strip protections from wolves in Idaho and Montana. But they later backed a national delisting bill that was defeated in the waning hours of the last congressional session. Rep. Raul Labrador has backed a pair of bills that include both regional and national delisting plans. 
 
Crapo spokesman Lindsay Nothern said the senator supports any bill that will return management of wolves to Idaho. He said Crapo is working to build support for wolf legislation in the Senate, where it is much easier for one senator to stop a piece of legislation by placing a hold on it. 
 
"It just really comes down to what can pass and how easily it can pass", he said.
 
Mike Leahy, regional director of the Defenders of Wildlife at Bozeman, Mont., said wolves should be delisted through a process outlined in the ESA. He said his group remains opposed to the minimum wolf population number of 150 per state contained in the 2009 rule. 
 
"There was no science behind the 100 to 150 wolves per state in the original recovery goals, so we want the best available science applied and this legislation doesn't do that."
 
When wolves were reintroduced to the Northern Rockies, the recovery planned called for delisting to occur after their numbers grew to include 100 wolves and 10 breeding pairs in each state for three consecutive years. Wolf management plans approved in Idaho and Montana called for the states to maintain at least 150 wolves each.
 
There are now believed to be more than 1,600 wolves in Idaho, Montana and Wyoming. 



Notice they are still using the term "reintroduced" for a species that was never here in the first place.
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Offline Pot-Bellied Stallion

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Re: Wolf Management Tactics
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2011, 01:09:17 PM »
Dogshooter,

My closest encounter with wolves was about 40 yards, and that was close enough for me.  I was armed with my 8mm Remington Mag and a large caliber handgun, but the law prevented me from using either.
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Offline Dogshooter

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Re: Wolf Management Tactics
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2011, 04:42:49 PM »
PBS, don't know if it scared you as bad as it scared me but I have to say you have more respect for the law than I did on that day. If I had been armed, I don't think I would have been able to hold my fire.
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Offline Pot-Bellied Stallion

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Re: Wolf Management Tactics
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2011, 09:37:05 AM »
Kudus to Montana and Gov. Brian Schweitzer for following Idaho's lead on this.

by Matthew Brown of the Associated Press

From the Lewiston, Idaho Tribune


Montana eyes action against gray wolvesFebruary 17th, 2011(1) commentBy Matthew Brown Of The Associated Press BILLINGS, Mont. - Defying federal authority over gray wolves, Montana Gov. Brian Schweitzer on Wednesday encouraged ranchers to kill wolves that prey on their livestock - even in areas where that is not currently allowed - and said the state will start shooting packs that hurt elk herds.

Schweitzer told The Associated Press he no longer would wait for federal officials to resolve the tangle of lawsuits over wolves, which has kept the animals on the endangered species list for a decade since recovery goals were first met.

"We will take action in Montana on our own," he said. "We've had it with Washington, D.C., with Congress just yipping about it, with (the Department of) Interior just vacillating about it."

State wildlife agents and ranchers already kill wolves regularly across much of the Northern Rockies, where 1,700 of the animals roam parts of five states. Rules against killing wolves have been relaxed significantly by federal officials over the past decade, but hunting remains prohibited.

Livestock owners in southern Montana and Idaho have authority to defend their property by shooting wolves that attack their cattle, sheep or other domestic animals. And federal agents regularly kill problem wolves, with more than 1,000 shot over the past decade.

But Schweitzer is moving to expand those killings beyond what the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has so far allowed, including to parts of Montana where ranchers are not allowed to shoot the predators.

Fish and Wildlife spokesman Chris Tollefson said the agency was working with Montana and other states in the region to address their concerns over the wolf population.

"We've been in negotiations with Montana and the other states for some time, and we're committed to continuing that and trying to find a solution that works for everybody," he said.

In a letter to Interior Secretary Ken Salazar provided by Schweitzer's office, the Democratic governor said state game wardens will be directed to stop investigating wolf shootings north of Interstate 90, the part of the state with the strictest protections for the animals.

That follows a similar show of defiance from
Idaho's Republican governor, C.L. (Butch) Otter.

Otter said in the fall that Idaho Fish and Game agents would no longer participate in wolf management efforts, including shooting investigations. The move forced federal officials to step in to enforce restrictions on killing the animals.

Federal enforcement of laws against killing protected wolves also would be expected in Montana.

But critics of federal wolf policies appeared emboldened by the governor's Wednesday statements. Robert Fanning, who heads a group that advocates protecting elk herds around Yellowstone National Park from wolves, sent out an e-mail urging Montana residents to "lock and load and saddle up while there is still snow on the ground."

In the Bitterroot Valley south of Missoula, Schweitzer directed Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks to begin removing wolf packs blamed for driving down elk populations.

The state has a pending petition before the Fish and Wildlife Service to remove a dozen wolves in the Bitterroot. A decision on that petition is pending, according to federal officials.

But Schweitzer indicated Wednesday he was not going to wait, and would leave it to state wildlife agents to decide when to kill the wolves. He was less adamant in the letter to Salazar, which said the Bitterroot packs would be killed "to the extent allowed by the Endangered Species Act."

Department of Interior spokeswoman Kendra Barkoff said the agency agreed there was an "urgent need" to turn over wolf management to states that have acceptable management plans for the animals.

"But the governor's letter is not the answer," she added.

Federal wildlife officials have tried twice in the last four years to lift endangered protections for wolves and turn over management to the states. Both attempts were reversed in federal court.

A provision in a budget bill pending before Congress would revoke endangered species status for wolves in Montana and Idaho. Other measures introduced by lawmakers would lift federal protections across the lower 48 states.

Despite the bitter public divide on the issue, attacks on livestock by other, unprotected predators such as coyotes far exceed damage from wolves, according to U.S. Department of Agriculture statistics. But the lack of state control over wolves because of their endangered status has frustrated both livestock owners and elk hunters, who complain that their hands are tied by federal protections.

"This is a real-life problem in Montana - and we plan to start solving the problem," Schweitzer said.
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Offline Pot-Bellied Stallion

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Re: Wolf Management Tactics
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2011, 09:40:07 AM »
Dogshooter,
I don't remember any fear, since I was so well armed, but I do remember being in awe of the size of those critters.  I'll bet 200 pounds, at least.
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Offline mauser98us

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Re: Wolf Management Tactics
« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2011, 11:32:13 AM »
I think they have started having issues on the rim as well as the Blue in the White Mountains here in Arizona. Been a few that were taken care of, but I think it is getting ready to get out of hand.

Offline Couger

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Re: Wolf Management Tactics
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2011, 06:12:19 PM »
Quote from: mauser98us
I think they have started having issues on the rim as well as the Blue in the White Mountains here in Arizona. Been a few that were taken care of, but I think it is getting ready to get out of hand. 

That "fits," unfortunately.  I've read a few stories about wuuffs in states where they were NOT SUPPOSED TO BE!  As well as the classic three states, Idaho, Montana and Wyoming.  In addition wuuffs have been seen in northern Utah and eastern Washington.

One story in AZ in the Flagstaff region I read about a grandmother,  talked about watching a wolf run onto the home's porch and snatch the family's puddy kat!  Right next to the 5y.o. grandchild!! 

Damm wolf had NO FEAR!


Another story about that time was by a rancher and his wife or a rancher and his partner, and how the wuuffs had wiped out the entire calf crop for the year!  Been four or fives ago.  How can ranchers stay in business?

I'd like to know who's going give back and reimberse ranchers and stockmen who have had their livelihoods destroyed by a draconian gubmnt determined to shove the timber-wuuff down the throats of the West!!??

I would love to see the wolf-lovers, wolf-proponents, marxist-judges who espouse that crap and anyone else responsible for the scurge to the wolf-reintro has become in the West, I'd like to see ALL these people locked up into the same enclosure as their warm, fuzzy cuddly wolves - and they kill and eat each other for all I care!  What bastids.    >:(

Of course I've heard of many other stories since, where they usually occurred further north than AZ.


Its issues like the wolf reintroduction and how a heavy-handed federal gubmnt has destroyed livelihoods and families and business people/ranchers ..... that I really hope there is a God!  So that some day "justice" will be metted out or back to the people that deserve it!  The BAD as well as the GOOD PEOPLE!!   >:(

Offline Pot-Bellied Stallion

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Re: Wolf Management Tactics
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2011, 05:32:04 AM »
Gray wolves in Idaho are no longer protected under the Endangered Species Act.

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service published a rule in the Federal Register today, removing protections for wolves in Idaho, Montana and parts of Washington, Oregon and Utah. The agency also published another rule that will lead to delisting of wolves in Minnesota, Wisconsin and Michigan.

Federal and state officials hailed the move as a victory for the ESA, which is charged with protecting imperiled species.

"Like other iconic species such as the whooping crane, the brown pelican and the bald eagle, the recovery of the gray wolf is another success story for the Endangered Species Act," Secretary of Interior Ken Salazar said.

Environmental groups, however, said the delisting, particularly in the Northern Rocky Mountain states where it was ordered by Congress, is misguided.

"It has undermined our nation's commitment to good stewardship and sets a terrible precedent for side-stepping America's bedrock environmental laws whenever it's politically convenient to do so," said Roger Schlickeisen, president of Defenders of Wildlife.

Virgil Moore, director of the Idaho Department of Fish and Game at Boise, said he would move swiftly to implement the state's plan to kill about 50 wolves in the Lolo Zone, where elk herds are struggling. That plan includes aerial gunning of wolves that could begin this spring.

A wolf hunting season will be conducted this fall, although Moore said he doesn't know yet how many wolves Idaho will ultimately manage. The delisting rule calls for the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to take over wolf management if numbers in Idaho ever fall below 100, and to consider relisting if populations dip below 150. There are estimated to be at least 700 wolves in Idaho today. Moore said the state will aim for a population that includes enough of a buffer that normal population dips don't lead to relisting under the ESA. However, he made it clear the state would not look to carry a large surplus of the animals and would instead try to hover right at or above what biologists consider a safe distance from the 150-animal floor.

"I'm going to be tasking the staff to answer how big a buffer do we need," he said.

Wolves were reintroduced in central Idaho and Yellowstone National Park in 1995 and 1996. Their numbers quickly grew and by 2002 they started to meet predetermined delisting criteria. Despite their remarkable biological success, removing federal protections from wolves has proven difficult. Today marks the third time in three years wolves have been removed from the list of threatened and endangered species.

In 2008 and 2010, U.S. District Court Judge Donald Molloy overturned delisting rules. In the first instance, Molloy said there wasn't enough interbreeding between wolves in different populations in Idaho, Montana and Wyoming. He also didn't like a Wyoming law that allowed wolves to be shot on sight in most of the state.

Last year, after the federal government stripped Wyoming out of the delisting process, Molloy said it was illegal for it to remove protections based on political, instead of biological, boundaries.

With wolf numbers in the region at about 1,600 and well above delisting thresholds called for in the reintroduction plan, hunters, ranchers and political leaders became increasingly agitated at the inability of states to reduce wolf populations. Last month, Rep. Mike Simpson, R-Idaho, and Sen. Jon Tester, D-Mont., attached language to a must-pass spending bill that called for the delisting rule to be reissued. It passed and was signed into law.

Idaho will continue to send wolf population reports to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service for the next five years and will receive some federal funding during that time. The Nez Perce Tribe will also continue to monitor wolf populations in the Clearwater and McCall regions.
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Offline mauser98us

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Re: Wolf Management Tactics
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2011, 05:18:53 PM »
I think there is a movement here in AZ to delist them as well.

Offline QuailKiller

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Re: Wolf Management Tactics
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2011, 06:22:01 AM »
I think one of the biggest problems with wolves in the Western states is that there has been so much habitat loss for our game animals that wolves are having a much greater effect on our herds than they do in Canada and Alaska.  Here in Idaho, the elk have lots and lots of summer range, but they have lost a very large portion of their winter range, which is even more important for the game populations.  Around where I live, there is very little winter range that has not been developed.  During the winters, the elk are all concentrated in a very small area.  For years, Fish and Game would not allow people to go out in areas where the elk were wintering, because the elk had so few resources and a person spooking the elk would make them burn more energy and decrease their chances for surviving the winter.  Now, there are wolves chasing these these elk all over and constantly harassing them, besides killing some of them.  In wide open places like AK and Canada I think the wildlife just has so much more habitat and better quality habitat that wolves don't have the same effect on game populations as they are having on parts of Idaho right now. 

By developing and expanding our homes and farms into the elk's winter range, we have greatly reduced the elk's habitat.  Because of this, we can not afford to let wolves thrive.  We need to implement a very strong wolf management plan to keep their numbers within reason. 

The fact is, is that we have already changed the natural environment for good.  The Western United States will never be what it was 200 years ago.  Reintroducing wolves will not restore what has been lost, but will actually worsen the situation because the habitat has been changed so much. 

Our elk already have had a lot going against them and not much going for them.  Now they have one more thing going against them.  One more big thing.

Offline Pot-Bellied Stallion

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Re: Wolf Management Tactics
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2011, 05:21:06 PM »
You are correct, QuailKiller.  No one wants to acknowledge the fact that the sever clear cutting of heavy timber by Potlatch Corp. has taken away large tracts of shelter where elk and deer could 'hole up' and dodge the predators.  In the 26+ years that I have hunted in the area between Elk River and Grandad Bridge, I have seen both habitat and elk numbers drastically decrease.  Now the wolf population is rapidly growing in this area and the elk population has taken a nose dive.

Here's the latest from Boise:

IDAHO FISH AND GAME
HEADQUARTERS NEWS RELEASE
Boise, ID

Date:   May 19, 2011
Contact:   Ed Mitchell
(208) 334-3700



Commission Lays Out Framework For Idaho Wolf Management

The Idaho Fish and Game Commission Thursday, May 19, directed the Fish and Game Department to:
1.   Manage wolves in a manner that will ensure wolves remain under responsible state management in conjunction with the rest of Idaho's wildlife.

2.   Manage wolves as big game animals consistent with the goals and objectives of the 2002 Idaho Wolf Conservation and Management plan approved by the Idaho Legislature and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to keep wolves off the Endangered Species List.

3.   Control wolves where they depredate on livestock and other domestic animals or threaten human safety.

4.   Control the population of wolves and other predators as needed to address areas where elk or other prey populations are below management objectives.

5.   Develop wolf hunting season recommendations for consideration at the Commission's July 2011 meeting and develop trapping recommendations.

6.   Conduct additional species management planning as appropriate.
Commissioners also agreed to support the state the of Idaho's legal defense of challenges to state management, such as those lawsuits challenging the 2011 congressional action for wolf delisting, and urge Congress to continue to provide funding for monitoring, control and depredation compensation related to the wolf population introduced by the federal government into Idaho.
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