Author Topic: Most accurate out of the box bolt gun? (Read 20064 times)

gunnut69 · « **Reply #90 on:** March 06, 2011, 12:04:03 PM »

Unfortunately I see a lot of problems and Remingtons have more than their fair share..most relating to QC..or its lack. The CZ's at least those I've had dealings with (8-10) have been a little scary... M70's, my favorite hunting rifle behind the Ruger No.1 have not been to problamatic but the most accurate rifle I've shot as it came from the box was a 2nd hand M700 'Varmit Special' from the 1970's. Bought the rifle from a Bro-in-law who bought it new. Shot it less than 50 rounds.. I replaced the K6 with a K10 and with 25 year old loads shot groups under 1/2 inch...regularly.. I matched the load (it s 222 Rem) 50 grain SX Hornaday and BlC2(??dont remember??) +CCI and it just keeps on putting them in little bugholes.. If only I were a better shot! As to the fabled push feed problem I've had problems with a couple of Remingtons but have had to replair even the vaunted M98 mauser extractor...nothing never fails. Except maybe death.

inthebeech · « **Reply #91 on:** April 20, 2011, 07:58:10 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on February 15, 2011, 11:16:48 PM

There's a reason it's the most popular boltaction rifle in the world.

Yes, it's the same reason for the Stock Market Crash at the beginning of the last century; there are more followers than leaders.

Swampman · « **Reply #92 on:** April 20, 2011, 08:23:17 AM »

If you can't shoot sub-MOA groups with a Model 700 right out of the box. You should take dance classes.

teddy12b · « **Reply #93 on:** April 20, 2011, 08:39:06 AM »

If you asked this question in the years before Savage came out with the Accutrigger I would have voted Remington. Remington makes a fine rifle and has been doing so for a long time. In today's world, now that the accutrigger has been on the market for a while I'd have to say Savage is going to be the most accurate rifle right out of the box.

I've heard good things about CZ, but I've never shot or owned one.

Swampman · « **Reply #94 on:** April 20, 2011, 09:03:33 AM »

In 10 minutes any 700 trigger can be made much better than the Accutrigger. One screw 2 turns, and the 700 trigger isn't prone to damage like that thin little piece of metal on the Savage trigger.

possume · « **Reply #95 on:** April 20, 2011, 11:22:19 AM »

this isnt out of the box its modified

Quote from: Swampman on April 20, 2011, 09:03:33 AM

In 10 minutes any 700 trigger can be made much better than the Accutrigger. One screw 2 turns, and the 700 trigger isn't prone to damage like that thin little piece of metal on the Savage trigger.

Quote from: Swampman on April 20, 2011, 08:23:17 AM

If you can't shoot sub-MOA groups with a Model 700 right out of the box. You should take dance classes.

i have one that will not shoot better than 3 inches out of the box and i dont need shooting or dance lessons

parkergunshop · « **Reply #96 on:** April 20, 2011, 12:06:47 PM »

Sorry Swampman,

The Remington 700 trigger can be easily adjusted to the point of being unsafe and be prone to slam fires when the bolt is closed or firing when the safety is released. The average shooter has no business playing with a Remington trigger to lighten the pull or making changes to the sear engagement inparticular.

I had a shooter close the bolt on a 700 in 308 Winchester while I was down range changing targets at the target frames and it slam fired as the bolt was closed, talk about getting your attention in the wrong way. Yes, he worked on his trigger to get the pull weight down below 2 pounds. Benchrest shooters install a 4th lever to get a 2 Oz trigger pull and these are prone to slam firing during rifle matches if the shooter is not experienced and careful.

Also have heard recent rumbling about a basic design defect in the Remington 700 trigger and possible law suits does not bode well for the design.

Swampman · « **Reply #97 on:** April 20, 2011, 12:08:51 PM »

All malarkey for sure....Shooters shouldn't be touching firearms while anyone is down range.

Send it to me. I'll have it shooting sub-MOA in 60 seconds or less.

parkergunshop · « **Reply #98 on:** April 20, 2011, 12:56:51 PM »

Qualification to the previous post:

What I stated about slam fires holds true for many triggers if the shear engagement is too little and/or the weight of pull too light for the intended design of the trigger. I have seen it happen on several action/trigger designs when miss adjusted to the point of being unsafe. Most factory triggers are not designed for a weight of pull of less than 3 pounds.

Safeties combined with the trigger in combination are more prone to have trigger/sear issues when the safety is released, have not seen this on the separate bolt sleeve mounted safeties Winchester 70, Rugers, Mauser, Springfield or on the 1917 P14 Enfield safeties, though I suspect that it can happen.

This is why you close the bolt on an empty chamber and bounce the gun up and down hard on the workbench several times to see if the trigger releases under vibration after working on a trigger pull and/or sear engagement. Not once but several times better safe than sorry.

Omaha-BeenGlockin · « **Reply #99 on:** April 20, 2011, 02:12:23 PM »

Tikka T3
TC Venture
Browning X-bolt

The Remington is just an also ran. Seriously

Barstooler · « **Reply #100 on:** April 20, 2011, 03:42:14 PM »

Quote from: Swampman on April 20, 2011, 12:08:51 PM

Send it to me. I'll have it shooting sub-MOA in 60 seconds or less.

I wouldn't trust you to touch any of my rifles let alone work on any of them.

I bought my last Remington two years ago, when the only way I could could get a brand new 243 Rem 700 to shoot inside 4 inches was to float the barrel and glass bed the action. No more big greeen for me.

Barstooler

Swampman · « **Reply #101 on:** April 20, 2011, 04:19:56 PM »

No need to work on your rifle. All I need to do is pull the trigger.

teddy12b · « **Reply #102 on:** April 21, 2011, 04:15:52 AM »

LOL.

Buckskin · « **Reply #103 on:** April 21, 2011, 06:12:40 AM »

Quote from: Barstooler on April 20, 2011, 03:42:14 PM

Quote from: Swampman on April 20, 2011, 12:08:51 PM
Send it to me. I'll have it shooting sub-MOA in 60 seconds or less.

I wouldn't trust you to touch any of my rifles let alone work on any of them.

I bought my last Remington two years ago, when the only way I could could get a brand new 243 Rem 700 to shoot inside 4 inches was to float the barrel and glass bed the action. No more big greeen for me.

Barstooler

If your gun is shooting over 4 moa, floating and bedding won't help at all. Major problems with the gun itself, ammo, or the shooter... I don't care if there is a shotgun trigger on there, 4moa isn't the fault of any trigger.

Every Rem 700 I have shot is MOA out of the box or very close and with a little fine tuning of ammo, mine are more like 3/4".

ironglow · « **Reply #104 on:** April 21, 2011, 06:27:37 AM »

The word today is SAVAGE (IMO)... Savage is confident thay make sniper rifles at the factory that are "work ready"..

teddy12b · « **Reply #105 on:** April 21, 2011, 06:31:53 AM »

Quote from: ironglow on April 21, 2011, 06:27:37 AM

The word today is SAVAGE (IMO)... Savage is confident thay make sniper rifles at the factory that are "work ready"..

As clearly biased towards savage as I am, those rifles are just plain ugly to me. If it weren't in 338 lapua I couldn't get myself to look at those.

ironglow · « **Reply #106 on:** April 21, 2011, 06:46:53 AM »

Well Teddy, I don't have any military style guns in my lockers either ! I had enough of them while I was "in there and done that"!
I do have some Savages though.. I have one Savage centerfire..other centerfires being Marlin and H&R
Recently I have been moving my rimfires from Marlin toward Savage. Marlins are accurate OK, but in recent years, along with the accu-trigger setup, Savage has been making strides.. I am keeping my H&R rimfires though..
Have to admit , my CZ 452 is a fine rifle and my Anschutz is OK too.. I just don't keep inaccurate guns around very long..

teddy12b · « **Reply #107 on:** April 21, 2011, 07:45:52 AM »

Oh, don't get me wrong. I have and like military gun style guns. I enjoyed most of them while I was in there and did that too, but I carried one long enough that it just doesn't seem natural to me to not have one at the house. I think variety is the spice of life and I enjoy single shots, lever actions, pumps, bolt actions and semi auto's. They all have their place.

I've owned many savages and my favorite go to gun for long range is my 110fp in 30-06. I just think that the way they designed those BAS series rifles was a little too funky for me and I'm usually the last person to care how a rifle looks. I'd be will to sacrifice my feelings no them for a 338 lapua though. Those things are just incredible.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #108 on:** April 21, 2011, 08:05:00 AM »

Quote from: pastorp on February 15, 2011, 03:50:54 AM

I'm sure there will be a lot of opinions on this topic but here goes, I always have felt that Remington provided the best chance of getting a tack driver bolt gun out of the box. That said, to me they always seamed to kick more in larger calibers.

However now that I have owned several CZs I'm changing my mind. I believe CZ offers the best chance of buying a real good shooter right out of the box. At least that's my experience.

What's your experience?

In A Few Letters - X P 100

Barstooler · « **Reply #109 on:** April 25, 2011, 11:38:16 AM »

Quote from: Buckskin on April 21, 2011, 06:12:40 AM

Quote from: Barstooler on April 20, 2011, 03:42:14 PM
Quote from: Swampman on April 20, 2011, 12:08:51 PM
Send it to me. I'll have it shooting sub-MOA in 60 seconds or less.

I wouldn't trust you to touch any of my rifles let alone work on any of them.

I bought my last Remington two years ago, when the only way I could could get a brand new 243 Rem 700 to shoot inside 4 inches was to float the barrel and glass bed the action. No more big greeen for me.

Barstooler

If your gun is shooting over 4 moa, floating and bedding won't help at all. Major problems with the gun itself, ammo, or the shooter... I don't care if there is a shotgun trigger on there, 4moa isn't the fault of any trigger.

Every Rem 700 I have shot is MOA out of the box or very close and with a little fine tuning of ammo, mine are more like 3/4".

Actually, with all action screws tightened and when holding the stock and putting side-wise pressure on the action and the barrel, I could feel the action moving "side to side" in the stock. After I rebedded the action with glass, the groups came down to under an inch. I have never seen such "slop" in a bedded action before. This surprised me, because my first two Rem 700s were very accurate out of the box, but not this 243. No more Green for me.

Barstooler

gr8ful · « **Reply #110 on:** April 25, 2011, 01:14:52 PM »

Remington used to be good, but has slipped in recent years, I have had 2 Howa's that were sub-moa out of the box, but looking at my safe I have to go with Savage especially since the accu-trigger, (not the bargain priced Stevens non accu-trigger line, though all of those that I have owned/shot have been acceptably accurate hunting rifles) Of the six current residents all are MOA capable and my Model 12 22-250 is easily 1/2 MOA when I cooperate, all are out of the box, mount the scope and start shooting. One is a model 10 in 270 that has been stackin lead since 1987 it is scratched, scarred and still sporting the same Tasco 3-9 that I put on it back then, but with Winchester Super-x 130gr Silvertips it still shoots better than me.

Had an exceptional Tang safety Ruger 77 once, but had 2 more that were goats.

351 power · « **Reply #111 on:** April 25, 2011, 04:29:55 PM »

think most companies can have good and bad, especially these days. first 700 i had was accurate. worried about the trigger and sold it to a friend who was very familiar with rifles/shooting. wish i could get it back. got 2 savages both shot well but am selling one now as it doesn't really grab me. recently got a sps 700 varmint nice accurate rifle. x-pro trigger. from what i see with the rem trigger it's mostly human error. don't know if x-pro is a "risk". like both brands. well ahead of my experiences with h&r.

Ex 49'er · « **Reply #112 on:** April 25, 2011, 09:34:56 PM »

Back in the '70's people around here were taking out of the box New Remington 788's to turkey shoots and bringing home the bacon. I love my 788.

OldSchoolRanger · « **Reply #113 on:** April 28, 2011, 07:27:29 PM »

I have to go with Remington. I have 700's in .243Win, 7mm Mauser, .30-06, and a 788 in .308.
Every one shoots great.

I have to agree with Swampman's statement: "There's a reason it's the most popular boltaction rifle in the world." probably the same reason that the US Army used the 700, as the basis for their M-24 sniper rifle, and the Marines, used it as the basis for their M40A1 sniper rifle.

ironglow,
Anschutz made .22cal rifles for Savage to sell under the Savage brand name, I'm not sure, but I believe it was the model 164?, 184?, or the Mark12? (not sure of the model number), so technically those Savage .22 rifles, are really Anschutz rifles.

ironglow · « **Reply #114 on:** April 29, 2011, 02:51:14 AM »

OSRanger;
Yep ; that was the model 164. Anschutz had a deal going with Savage back in the 60s &70s, the rifles were pure Anschutz, but were stamped Savage/Anschutz. I had 2 of model 164M (magnum), which I passed to my son & grandson. I also had a Mark 10B..the basic bull barrelled target model with Anschutz target sights (single shot .22LR) which my son now has.
The only Anschutz I presently have is a "woodchucker", for which I have fashioned a full length stock...it makes a nice truck gun.

Recently, I bought a new Savage 93 in .22 mag; just the basic model with synthetic stock & accutrigger. I was plesantly surprised to see it shoots as well for me as either Anschutz .22 mag does. The Mark 10B target .22 LR is a notch above the magnums for groups though.

OldSchoolRanger · « **Reply #115 on:** April 29, 2011, 06:15:30 PM »

ironglow,
Lucky you, Anschutz makes an accurate .22 rifle. Glad your new Savage is working out well for you, now all you have to do is hide the "woodchucker" from any other family members looking for a .22.

"What .22? I don't know what your talking about. I don't see a .22 do you?"

yooperamoungtrolls · « **Reply #116 on:** May 03, 2011, 04:13:16 AM »

SAVAGE+accutrigger and accustock hands down, compared to the Remintons that I have owned. Dont get me wrong I like Remingtons and Im still looking for a nice vintage 700BLD LH. Not sure I would run right out and get one of the newer ones. Again in response to "Most accurate out of the box bolt gun?" it would be my Savage FLHSS .308win.

Swampman · « **Reply #117 on:** May 03, 2011, 04:28:51 AM »

If I owned a rifle with the Accutrigger, I'd replace it. It's very toy like and cheap.

ironglow · « **Reply #118 on:** May 03, 2011, 04:51:13 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on April 20, 2011, 04:19:56 PM

No need to work on your rifle. All I need to do is pull the trigger.

Ummmm...squeeeze the trigger..

As far as the accutrigger being "toy like and cheap", I have a couple of them and I am nothing but PLEASED with them..wish I had them on all my rifles.
...But keep in mind; it is a trigger,..not a hammer or pry bar !

Swampman · « **Reply #119 on:** May 03, 2011, 07:03:40 AM »

crude, flimsy, and cheap...come to mnd.

I prefer a real trigger on a real rifle.