Author Topic: WMD Lies (Read 6704 times)

nw_hunter · « **on:** February 16, 2011, 04:49:45 AM »

The founding fathers warned us to keep our noses out of the business of other nations!

Defector admits to WMD lies that triggered Iraq war.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/15/defector-admits-wmd-lies-iraq-war

BUGEYE · « **Reply #1 on:** February 16, 2011, 04:52:51 AM »

Iraq had them. they used them on their own people. remember the kurds and the mustard gas?

Pat/Rick · « **Reply #2 on:** February 16, 2011, 07:09:28 AM »

IMO the WMD lies worked both ways. They were/ they weren't, alot/not as many, factual reports/misleading reports.

They had them, proven historical fact.
They moved them before we got there. Speculation, with probably a bit more truth than is really known.

What DID happen to the freighter that wasn't persued and WHAT was the cargo? Certainly there have been reports of WMD moved to Syria.

I couldn't agree more with minding our own business, and I do have isolationist tendencies.

Casull · « **Reply #3 on:** February 16, 2011, 07:48:53 AM »

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Defector admits to WMD lies that triggered Iraq war.

Yawn.

Gary G · « **Reply #4 on:** February 16, 2011, 08:47:13 AM »

I have not figured out our real reason for going in there (Iraq and Afghanistan), but it has resulted in some serious unintended consequences (like a bankrupt nation).

Our founding fathers said to avoid entanglements because they knew that war is destruction of wealth. Build a million dollar missile and blow it up and you have just lost a million of wealth. I feel that people just don't realize that everything done by the government is paid for by the people in the form of a lower living standard.

What Jefferson and others proposed was not isolationism. Avoid entanglements and trade with all countries with which we can is not isolationism, even though the neocons accuse those who oppose imperialism as being isolationists.

Casull · « **Reply #5 on:** February 17, 2011, 06:40:16 AM »

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Believing in something you don't see, have concrete evidence or other indications takes alot of _________, or lack of___________!

And pretending something doesn't exist to make a point is a lie, plain and simple. As far as concrete evidence, how about the fact that Sadam actually used them against his own people. Pretty damn tough to use something that doesn't exist.

Pat/Rick · « **Reply #6 on:** February 17, 2011, 07:46:33 AM »

+1 Gary. We have enough smart weaponry in our arsenals, that we do not need to put boots on the ground just to "spank" somebody.

Stop all foreign aid. Return our military to our nation and territories. Tariff/tax imports.Interfere with no one, trade with most. Drop out of the UN and regain our sovereignty.

Gary G · « **Reply #7 on:** February 17, 2011, 11:51:25 AM »

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When people don't insist on clarity and supporting evidence to support rash intentions or actions of their government, especially those that cost them treasure and blood,,,,then they're gullible and stupid.

TM, I will second that.

I would add that most wars are started with lies. I would also say that if we didn't have rulers, we probably wouldn't have wars (and the rulers are never in the fox hole). The office of president was never designed as authoritarian, but it has become just that.

Casull · « **Reply #8 on:** February 17, 2011, 01:05:31 PM »

TM, who do you think I'm going to believe, pretty much every legitimate intelligence body at the time, or YOU? Hmmm, tough call.

Lost Farmboy · « **Reply #9 on:** February 17, 2011, 01:17:21 PM »

Quote from: Casull on February 17, 2011, 01:05:31 PM

TM, who do you think I'm going to believe, pretty much every legitimate intelligence body at the time, or YOU? Hmmm, tough call.

This is the problem. All the intelligence agencies were saying Saddam had WMDs. I question who they really work for.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #10 on:** February 17, 2011, 01:33:13 PM »

"Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations — entangling alliances with none." ~ Thomas Jefferson

magooch · « **Reply #11 on:** February 18, 2011, 04:40:53 AM »

I couldn't care less whether Sodamn Insane had WMDs, or not, the world is better off without him and his sons. We were bound to have to deal with them sooner, or later. I only wish that we had nuked them instead of sending troops. Better yet, I wish that Israel had nuked them when Sodamn fired missles into Israel.

ironglow · « **Reply #12 on:** February 18, 2011, 05:21:43 AM »

A few fallacies at work here;

1) Dictators..Hitler, stalin, Pol Pot, Imadinnerjacket or Saddam Hussein ... don't give up WMD.. just to be a nice guy !

2) The inspections required by treaty signed at the end of the first Gulf war, required that inspectors be given free access,
Saddam's gang found many ways to delay or even refuse access to suspected sites. Why ?

3) Intelligence agencies do not normally plan actions on the word of one informer, simply because he may well be a liar. They normally accumulate evidence form various and sundry sources..then evaluate them carefully before acting.

4) Georges Sada, Saddam's Vice Air marshall during that time..wrote a book entitled .. SADDAM'S SECRETS. He explained fully the WMD which Saddam had and just how and when he disposed of them ! Consult link:
http://www.amazon.com/Saddams-Secrets-General-Survived-Hussein/dp/1591454042

5) All the major intelligence serevices declared that Saddam Hussein had WMD, as did Bill & Hillary Clinton. Were the Intel services and the Clintons all lying also ?

6) Still, we must realize that TM and NW Hunter have much better, more dependable G2 sources than the generals on both sides, the current & immediately past presidents...or major intel services.

7) Even in the cited link (3rd paragraph) the guy says about his story "Maybe I was right, maybe I was not right".

Casull · « **Reply #13 on:** February 18, 2011, 06:53:33 AM »

IG, we all know how TM can latch onto the 1% that is inaccurate and use that as a basis to attack the other 99%. If the crap he spouts weren't so dangerous, he'd actually be comical.

nw_hunter · « **Reply #14 on:** February 18, 2011, 09:55:22 AM »

Quote from: magooch on February 18, 2011, 04:40:53 AM

I couldn't care less whether Sodamn Insane had WMDs, or not, the world is better off without him and his sons. We were bound to have to deal with them sooner, or later. I only wish that we had nuked them instead of sending troops. Better yet, I wish that Israel had nuked them when Sodamn fired missles into Israel.

Magoo! You sound like Billy.............Just nuke-em, Killem-all!!Women, children (all) They will just grow up to be terroists.

ironglow · « **Reply #15 on:** February 18, 2011, 10:07:17 AM »

"I and my 4 friends are totally correct..all the rest of the world is completely wrong" !

Isn't that a portrait of paranoia ?

Gary G · « **Reply #16 on:** February 18, 2011, 11:02:44 AM »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curveball_%28informant%29

It was based on lies.

magooch · « **Reply #17 on:** February 19, 2011, 02:56:06 AM »

Quote from: nw_hunter on February 18, 2011, 09:55:22 AM

Quote from: magooch on February 18, 2011, 04:40:53 AM
I couldn't care less whether Sodamn Insane had WMDs, or not, the world is better off without him and his sons. We were bound to have to deal with them sooner, or later. I only wish that we had nuked them instead of sending troops. Better yet, I wish that Israel had nuked them when Sodamn fired missles into Israel.

Magoo! You sound like Billy.............Just nuke-em, Killem-all!!Women, children (all) They will just grow up to be terroists.

No, you're right, it's much better that we sent thousands of troops over there to be killed, or maimed.

War is hell--as it should be--and if you're going to fight a war, it shoud be done quickly and efficiently with the least damages to your side. What gives women and children a free pass any more so than men?

nw_hunter · « **Reply #18 on:** February 19, 2011, 04:17:27 AM »

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No, you're right, it's much better that we sent thousands of troops over there to be killed, or maimed.

War is hell--as it should be--and if you're going to fight a war, it shoud be done quickly and efficiently with the least damages to your side. What gives women and children a free pass any more so than men?

How about not lying to the American people, and declaring an unjust war on a country that poses no threat to us. That way our men and women in uniform don't die for big oil, and the women and children of that nation live to see another sunrise. Perhaps you think only our people's lives are important?

Your right! War is HELL, and that is the reason only a just war should be waged, and according to our constitution, that war was not! It was based on lies, and deception to the American people, and you should be enraged about it, instead of proud.........JMO, and I know yours differs.

OK hunter · « **Reply #19 on:** February 19, 2011, 04:24:42 AM »

Has anyone read Rumsfeld's book? He discusses all this in depth.

magooch · « **Reply #20 on:** February 19, 2011, 04:30:05 AM »

One man's "just war" is another man's unjust war and we the people don't get to vote on it. And since we don't get to vote on it, the best we can do is hope our leaders will do the right thing. I still think that taking Saddam and his sons out was going to happen sooner, or later and the sooner the better. When he set them oil wells on fire, he was toast.

gr8ful · « **Reply #21 on:** February 19, 2011, 08:49:44 AM »

hey wait a minute don't we have WMD's too? didn't we use them in a war too? Saddam wanted us to believe he had WMD's. So what?

subdjoe · « **Reply #22 on:** February 19, 2011, 10:57:28 AM »

OK, let's go with him telling the truth now about his telling lies then. And that SH never had any, or was attempting to make any, WMDs. Nope, none, never happened, he was a great guy, generous to a fault, loving and understanding...we get that. The guy never did anything wrong.

Now, lets say that the guy who now says he was lieing then really had been telling the truth, and that no one believed him. And that SH was a murderous thug who had used WMDs on his own people, and was developing his NBC weapons, and actually used them to attack, oh, New York. The people who are outraged now because no one believed the guy who the assume is telling the truth now about telling lies back then would have been outraged then because nothing was done to prevent an attack that we had information about.

That is one of the problems with gathering information - you kind of have to assume a worst case, or almost worst case, scenario. Otherwise you are like Chamberlain, stepping off the plane and proclaiming "Peace for our time."

Gary G · « **Reply #23 on:** February 19, 2011, 12:02:04 PM »

Let's see, Iraq was a safe war, just like Afghanistan. Both had no navy and did not have an airplane that could fly this far.
Good choice, no matter what the lies told the American people. WMD and the butcher Sadam was a good sell. It made the military industrial complex and big bankers a lot of money. Only a few thousand American lives were lost and the millions of innocent foreigners killed and maimed don't matter. Only problem, controlling the world is sure a headache. Why don't those Tunisians and Egyptians just cow down and obey like good little children.

Opps, I think some of my wealth is now in the bankers hands too. Surely my living standard was not squandered as the government pays hundreds of billions in interest payments in my name.

Lost Farmboy · « **Reply #24 on:** February 20, 2011, 12:52:50 AM »

Now, let me get this straight, was Colin Powell Dupniked by a Curveball? Who makes this stuff up? Do you think the Germans were sending a clue when they called him Curveball?

nw_hunter · « **Reply #25 on:** February 20, 2011, 05:41:25 AM »

Quote from: Gary G on February 19, 2011, 12:02:04 PM

Let's see, Iraq was a safe war, just like Afghanistan. Both had no navy and did not have an airplane that could fly this far.
Good choice, no matter what the lies told the American people. WMD and the butcher Sadam was a good sell. It made the military industrial complex and big bankers a lot of money. Only a few thousand American lives were lost and the millions of innocent foreigners killed and maimed don't matter. Only problem, controlling the world is sure a headache. Why don't those Tunisians and Egyptians just cow down and obey like good little children.

Opps, I think some of my wealth is now in the bankers hands too. Surely my living standard was not squandered as the government pays hundreds of billions in interest payments in my name.

And they still play this little.........Democrat vs Republican game! Why? Because it works to keep the Sheeple in line! Remember? Elect me, and I'll bring the troops home! (Obama) "Yea" When the proverbial cow's come home.

Some of us know why we are in Iraq and Afghanistan, and it has nothing to do with WMD's or Evil dictators.

magooch · « **Reply #26 on:** February 20, 2011, 05:47:21 AM »

It was the Dumycrats and the Clinton administration that said that Saddam had to be taken down, but what they really meant was Algore should take him out. George Bush and the American electorate threw a monkey wrench into their cries for war, so as usual the Dumycrats got cold feet and turned against the very war effort that they touted when Clinton was running the show.

Casull · « **Reply #27 on:** February 20, 2011, 08:52:34 AM »

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"If Tyranny and Oppression come to this Land it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign Enemy"..James Madison

Wasn't it a Founding Father (Jefferson) who sent the first troops to fight a foreign enemy on foreign soil (Tripoli)?

Gary G · « **Reply #28 on:** February 20, 2011, 10:15:14 AM »

Quote from: Casull on February 20, 2011, 08:52:34 AM

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"If Tyranny and Oppression come to this Land it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign Enemy"..James Madison

Wasn't it a Founding Father (Jefferson) who sent the first troops to fight a foreign enemy on foreign soil (Tripoli)?

Yep, they were playing the Somali pirates with our ships. Jefferson took care of it cheaply while actually lowering the national debt.

charles p · « **Reply #29 on:** February 20, 2011, 12:22:56 PM »

Recently read a book that said tortured political prisoners will often confess to anything to stop the torture.

The moderator said that one or more Arabic prisoners and Guantanamo prisoners confessed that Sadam had WMD, and our state department ran with the confessions on the assumption that they were true.

Seems reasonable that information gathered this way could lead to bad decisions at the highest levels.