Author Topic: Beginner Questions. (Read 852 times)

New Hampshire · « **on:** December 20, 2003, 11:45:00 AM »

Hello folks! I am planning on buying a CVA Kentucky rifle in kit form real soon (I just love the look of the long barreled beauty.) I want to put a cherry finish on it as dark walnut never really impressed me much. Im thinking of using a gel stain and a Birchwood Casey Tru Oil finish. This seems to be the easiest method which still offers good protection from the elements. Are there any tips here you can give me on finishing stocks that might make things easier?
Second, the real reason Im posting here is to get some tips on seating patched balls. I bought Mr Fadalas Blackpowder Handbook, which offered a lot of good info. But I dont know if I want to pick up that Kadooty thing he talks about so much. What can I do to consistently seat balls the same way (without short starting of course,) for the utmost in accuracy? Also, is there a big difference in accuracy between the traditional Black powders and the replicas like pyrodex and 777?
Im sure Ill have a few more to ask, but this will get me started.
Thanks,
Brian M.

Grump · « **Reply #1 on:** December 20, 2003, 03:23:07 PM »

Get your self a short starter. If you can start a PRB with out it your patch and ball combo is probably to small for accurate shooting. But get your hands on what ever you can and have fun shooting your new smoke pole and worry about accuracy later. GOOD LUCK!

KING · « **Reply #2 on:** December 20, 2003, 04:44:03 PM »

Yes.there is a differance in powders,and you have to remember each rifle is a critter unto itself. I would start with Elephant..then goex.......and finally Swiss to name three off of the top of my head. The powders are listed in the order of the least to the most in the power department with all loads being equal in volume. I have had good luck with all three,and like Elephant in several of my larger bore mzl. Swiss makes my 58 purr like the critter in my lap. I would get a can of each,and try them,see what suits you the best. I have shot 777 a little,and really cant give it a report that carries any weight. I prefer the black powders and have not had a gun yet that would not shoot them the best.......from .32 to the .75............not counting a couple of the " bore" rifles that I have had............stay safe......King

Ramrod · « **Reply #3 on:** December 20, 2003, 07:09:09 PM »

Hey New Hampshire,
The CVA Kentucky was my intro to the wild world of black powder back in the 70's. Mine has a reddish tint to it and looks great even after all these years. I don't shoot it much on account of a slight ring in the barrel about 6 inches down ( don't ask how it got there! ).
To answer your first question, I would say yes, the Tru Oil will work well for you, I would seal ALL the exposed wood (Barrel channel, lock mortise, ect.) Then use lots of light coats on the stock till you get the finish you want.
For the second, I would say this, there is no historical record of anything close to a Kadooty, there isn't even any antique short starters, they are a modern invention. what the old timers did was thumb-start their loads, alot of surviving muzzleloaders have coned barrels, which would support this, and they just thumped the ramrod down on the load the same way each time after they seated it.

Ramrod

New Hampshire · « **Reply #4 on:** December 21, 2003, 02:25:08 AM »

Thanks guys, this is helping. I am starting simple with the CVA kit in a cap front stuffer. Ive been dreaming, though, of a cap shotgun (like available from Dixie Gun works,) complimentary Kentucky pistol, one of those REALLY neat looking squirrel guns I saw in Cabelas, and of course, eventually, a flintlock. My Uncle is thinking of doing a flintlock kit himself! It origionaly started as an idea to just have some fun plinking at the range. But now Im seriously thinking of getting out early for deer season. My state is even thinking about a TRADITIONAL muzzel loader season, which would allow me to be out there even earlier! Ive already started gathering my accoutrements. Ive got a simple shoulder bag and ball bag from Crazy Crow trading post, and for Christmas Im getting some of the more important things like a ball starter, powder horn, measure......those kind of things. This is really gonna be fun, Im sure of it! Next month cant come quick enough :grin: .
Thanks again,
Brian M.

crow_feather · « **Reply #5 on:** December 21, 2003, 06:06:02 AM »

New Hampshire,

Like Ramrod said, after seating your ball on the powder charge, you sort of throw your ramrod (which is in the barrel) about 12 inches down on top of the ball until the ramrod begins to bounce. If it bounces the same height, then it should be approx. the same seating pressure. Some shooters do it, some don't - but it seems to work for me.

The kentucky was my first rifle and I used 3f in it which did pretty well. I remember that rifle as a very accurate shooter.

Best of luck with it.

C F

Super Rat · « **Reply #6 on:** December 21, 2003, 07:00:49 PM »

Wasn't the Baker Rifle issued with a short starter, and even a wooden hammer to whack on the short starter with?

I think so, but could/might/very well be wrong. I seem to remember that in some dusty place in my brain.

Ramrod · « **Reply #7 on:** December 22, 2003, 02:46:27 AM »

Super Rat,
I don't know if the Baker was or wasn't issued with a starter or hammer, but it came in a rifle and a carbine version. Loading with a hammer and starter on horseback would seem to be a bit problematic. There were some European guns loaded this way too, I believe the English and Europeans mostly loaded a bare ball. The patched roundball was an American invention to allow for easier loading, and greater variation in ball size on the frontier.
My :money:
Ramrod

Super Rat · « **Reply #8 on:** December 22, 2003, 12:00:21 PM »

Ha ha yes, LOL, I can just imagine trying to do that on a running horse.

Using that dusty part of my brain again, I don't think the Baker was issued to mounted troops but rather to some small sharp shooting squads or something. Now that you mention it, I think is was used with a bare ball, that would make sense and I think I do remember that.

I'm suprised there was a carbine version, as the rifle was designed for sharp-shooting and not general issue or cavalry use. Maybe artillery units liked them, perhaps the longer range and accuracy appealed to them, hence a carbine....

It's possible the minnie could have come into use (or have been known) when the Baker was still being used, which would make the rifle appropriate for general issue, but I'm just guessing here.

I think the Baker was the last British flintlock small arm, was it not? If so, the minnie and the Baker would have both been around at the same time. I know that some smooth bore muskets were converted to fire the minnie just before the percussion musket and rifle were adopted.

Winter Hawk · « **Reply #9 on:** December 22, 2003, 12:10:08 PM »

For a finish, try LinSpeed (http://www.huntamerica.com/linspeed/). I used that on the wood of my little underhammer back in the early '70s and it is still in fairly good shape, despite the dings.

I have coned the barrel on my .54 GPR flintlock and find that really helps with the loading. On the .45 underhammer I use the butt of my sheath knife to press the patched ball even with the muzzle, the cut the patching and use the ramrod to run the patch all the way down. I have tried the "bouncing" method but the ramrod started to splinter at the brass end doing this. I now run the ball down onto the powder, then holding the barrel with my fingers curled around it, I push down with my thumb to put some extra pressure on it.

What really helps is to run a cleaning patch down the barrel after each shot. Some folks use a moist patch followed by a dry one, I just use a chunk of an old shirt I push down and pull back out dry. Otherwise you will get so much fouling in the bore that loading becomes a chore.

Have fun. The kits are fun to put together. Just don't get in too big of a hurry. It's easy to "turn $300 worth of parts into $75 worth of gun." But remember that we have resources that the old time gun makers didn't have, and most of the work is already done for you with a kit.

-Kees-

Winter Hawk · « **Reply #10 on:** December 22, 2003, 12:27:06 PM »

Super Rat and Ramrod,

I did a quick Google search for "Baker Rifle" and came up with a number of sites, including the following: http://home.vicnet.net.au/~rifles95/rifle.htm. Nothing I read in any of the articles mentioned a short starter or hammer. However, it WAS made in a carbine version for cavalry units.

Thanks for the discussion. I would never have looked that up otherwise, and so you have once again added to my knowledge.

Merry Christmas!

-Kees-

Ramrod · « **Reply #11 on:** December 22, 2003, 02:03:13 PM »

keesvw2002, Super Rat
Don't want to hijack this thread, but I couldn't get the link to work.Found the sight from Google, very good read! Something about the ~ thing I think, or maybe my computer doesn't understand Australian.
New Hampshire,
To get back on topic, there is a huge differance between hunting accuracy and target accuracy, ( a concept lost on the "300 yard " inline shooters), as long as you can come up with some kind of feel, or way to judge your seating pressure so you know the ball is FIRMLY on the powder, you'll have good hunting accuracy, later you can monkey around with trying to come within a couple of ounces of some magic pressure for the target accuracy, if thats what floats your boat.

Ramrod

The Shrink · « **Reply #12 on:** December 23, 2003, 01:16:20 AM »

Manchester

I would imagine that the Guild of New Hamphsire Woodworkers is still around. They can answer all of your questions concerning coloring and finishing that stock, while looking at the wood. Coloring will be strongly influenced by the existing color in the wood.

If you are planning on an oil finish Tru-oil is the modern tradition, boiled linseed is the traditional, and Tung oil is the better penetrating oil than linseed. If you go with Tung, get the Polmerized Tung oil. The guys at the Guild will point you in the right direction.

Wayne the Shrink - ex New Hampshire Woodworker

mamaflinter · « **Reply #13 on:** December 23, 2003, 01:54:34 AM »

First of all congrats at joining the longrifle fold. If your rifle is a flintlock you don't want to use any of the subs as they take a higher ignition temperature to set off the main charge and you'll get poor ignition.

King gave wonderful recommendations on powder so I won't repeat them.

Here is a link to a site that might help you with some information before you head out. http://mamaflinter.tripod.com

Super Rat · « **Reply #14 on:** December 23, 2003, 10:59:05 AM »

I agree with RamRod, for hunting, seating pressure does not matter, just ram it home and give it a firm push to make sure it's seated on the powder. Your adrenalin is going to open up your group more on the side of an Elk or Deer more than any variation in seating pressure.

On bouncing the ramrod, with wooden rods be careful, or be warned that this can eventually crack or fracture/break them. No biggie at the range, but if you have a wounded animal and the rod breaks when your second/follow up ball is only halfway down the barrel....!!

I think that at the shooting range, when you are trying to shoot your best groups just for fun and bragging rights, use a good range-rod with a ball or flat handle at the end, that you can consistantly push down on, with the same pressure, each time.