Democratic senators bail ship

[Skookum]

By the way, I noticed that you have a total of 8 posts on this forum 6 of which are in this topic and already you have jumped to the farthest left of all that have posted here.   Congrats!  You don't happen to be related to Scooter do you???

Thanks! I take pride in that. I've noticed that most of your posts are completely devoid of any logic whatsoever...You just seem to continually pound the astroturf talking points. You're not Scott Walker are you? Glenn Beck should be on anytime now. You might want to get your instructions up dated.

[dukkillr]

Please discuss the topic and not each other.

[Cabin4]

The country is falling apart because of Walker and Koch. It has nothing to do with 30 years of horrific tax policy, over regulation and over spending by all levels of government. Business and corporation are just out for themselves. Trying to adjust tax & regulatory policy to incent business and productive business output is not going to work. We are much better off having all business leave the country.We are dommed unless we raise taxes, spend more on social programs and any other programs and especially pay the state union workers more in Wisconsin. We can worry about who to collect tax from later after all business is snuffed out . Just keep spending and complaining. Things will get better then.

[Skookum]

The country is falling apart because of Walker and Koch. It has nothing to do with 30 years of horrific tax policy, over regulation and over spending by all levels of government. Business and corporation are just out for themselves. Trying to adjust tax & regulatory policy to incent business and productive business output is not going to work. We are much better off having all business leave the country.We are dommed unless we raise taxes, spend more on social programs and any other programs and especially pay the state union workers more in Wisconsin. We can worry about who to collect tax from later after all business is snuffed out . Just keep spending and complaining. Things will get better then.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Except the part about the Wisconsin Public Unions. You may have missed the part where they agreed right away to the proposed cuts in wages and benefits?

Why is it that for some reason the "Right" can't seem get the facts?

The businesses started leaving the country to duck paying taxes, or a living wage. Nothing but greed. The same reason behind everything being discussed in this thread.

It's rather simple. Give a man a good job, treat him fairly and you make money from his labor. He then in turn buys your products with that money. You get some of the money back that you paid him along with a profit. Take that good job away, or cut his wages, he won't buy your products because he can't afford them.

[Buckskin]

Couldn't have said it better myself. Except the part about the Wisconsin Public Unions. You may have missed the part where they agreed right away to the proposed cuts in wages and benefits?

Why is it that for some reason the "Right" can't seem get the facts?

The businesses started leaving the country to duck paying taxes, or a living wage. Nothing but greed. The same reason behind everything being discussed in this thread.

It's rather simple. Give a man a good job, treat him fairly and you make money from his labor. He then in turn buys your products with that money. You get some of the money back that you paid him along with a profit. Take that good job away, or cut his wages, he won't buy your products because he can't afford them.

There are 40 pages of this already discussed.  The unions didn't offer up any consessions until they realized that they were going to loose their union dues... As stated countless time on this topic, the unions never give up anything in good faith which is why they are in this possition now.  If they cared just a little bit about the hand that feeds them we would be discussing the final four instead of union greed and corruption.

Your example is of a private sector job not public.
Should say give a man a good job with excessive pay and benefits, with no oversight or accountablitly and tell him he is irreplacable.  He in turn will become a public employee, and input nothing to very little into society.  Take away that job or cut his wages and you will not notice a difference...

[Dixie Dude]

Have you checked Alabama's poverty rate say 30-40 years ago?  Probably not.  I didn't say it was perfect.  There is a vast sw section of Alabama south of Montgomery to Mobile (about 1/3 of the state) that has virtually no industry, except the Dothan area and Mobile areas.  This area is a very poor farming and logging area.  It however has some of the best deer hunting areas.  All the new industry is located north of the Montgomery line.  Sure there is so called poverty.  Money alone isn't the true value of a persons happiness.  If you have a small farm, small income, but you produce all your food, you don't need much income.  Most poverty is in the black communities.  This translates into their lack of getting an education.  25% of blacks in Alabama drop out of school.  The ones who do get an education move to areas where jobs are.  I make $50,000 a year, my wife doesn't work.  We have a 2,800 sq ft home with an in ground swimming pool and two car garage.   I have a fish and ski boat paid for with inboard engine that is 5 years old.  We almost have enough in our 401-K's and IRA's to for me to retire in two years and take out what I am making now until I get 62 or 65.  I am 57 now.  I raised 7 kids, so income isn't always a true measure of what a person has or what he has accomplished.  Oh and I only have a mortgage, two vehicles paid for.  No credit card debt.  3 big screen TV's, 3 computers, a 4' wide gunsafe with plenty of guns, reloading equipment.  My yearly income and the value of my home in Alabama is probably lower than the national average.  My wife is from Wisconsin.  There are a lot of northerners who have moved down here.  There is a vast middle class in which income isn't the only factor.  Our cost of living is much lower than up north or out west.  I've seen the prices up there.  My stepson lives in Illinois.  Rent is extremely high.  Heating bills in winter is high.  Fruits and veggies are higher (except corn) up there.  Gun laws are rediculous.  Castle laws are rediculous.   

How a person lives, how he manages his money, can determine a lot of his accumulated wealth.  A person on minimum wage who saves 10% of his income for 30-35 years will have a million dollars with compounded interest.  I do not drink, nor smoke so that saves a ton of money that some people spend.  I take care of my things the Lord has blessed me with.  I'm not the healthist person in the world, but I am blessed.  I still have some good fishing equipment that is over 30 years old I still use.  A lot of my guns are old but well taken care of.  I keep maintenance on my vehicles and don't speed.  I keep my air condition on78 in summer and my heat on 60 in winter to cut costs.  We don't eat out much.  We do take vacations, but we mostly camp except in Florida (too hot).  I am not union nor have ever been a union member. 

[Cabin4]

The country is falling apart because of Walker and Koch. It has nothing to do with 30 years of horrific tax policy, over regulation and over spending by all levels of government. Business and corporation are just out for themselves. Trying to adjust tax & regulatory policy to incent business and productive business output is not going to work. We are much better off having all business leave the country.We are dommed unless we raise taxes, spend more on social programs and any other programs and especially pay the state union workers more in Wisconsin. We can worry about who to collect tax from later after all business is snuffed out . Just keep spending and complaining. Things will get better then.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Except the part about the Wisconsin Public Unions. You may have missed the part where they agreed right away to the proposed cuts in wages and benefits?

Why is it that for some reason the "Right" can't seem get the facts?

The businesses started leaving the country to duck paying taxes, or a living wage. Nothing but greed. The same reason behind everything being discussed in this thread.

It's rather simple. Give a man a good job, treat him fairly and you make money from his labor. He then in turn buys your products with that money. You get some of the money back that you paid him along with a profit. Take that good job away, or cut his wages, he won't buy your products because he can't afford them.

I got the facts right. Look at history of state worker pay. It has been going up for years and has far out paced the private sector. I understand they gave in on the wages and benefits and that the real issue is the collective barganing. Collective barganing must go. Its the cause of the history of rising wages of these workers. NO More Collective Barganing. We'll be looking at the same thing in a year if we don;t get rid of it now. The reason why they are fighting so hard for cellective barganing is becasue they will use it next year to get a RAISE! You get your facts straight!

SO how do you stop out corp and business greed? Pass a law that says No Greed? You have to reshape the tax and regulatory environment to incent business to come here. Its that simple. Otherwise I guess they will keep on being greedy and people in China, Germany, Ireland, etc will get the jobs we should have. What a plan. More of what TM and Scoot have in store for us.

[ironglow]

Skookum says;

   "Couldn't have said it better myself. Except the part about the Wisconsin Public Unions. You may have missed the part where they agreed right away to the proposed cuts in wages and benefits?"


   Iroinglow says;
     
      Skookum; we didn't miss the part where the unions offered concessions, but that's an old,old story.. Which goes like this;.
 
 " We concede a tiny bit right now, but as soon as we get a chance..we come back making more outrageous demands than ever ! Surely enough to keep the taxpayers scratching to keep up,..... far into the future"
         
  Those of us who have lived long enough have seen this same drama played out over and over.  It was done with the steel companies, construction equipment companies and many other once very productive American manufacturers. Had it not been for a govt bailout, much of the auto industry would also have moved.
   The problem with this picture is, that unlike the steel companies, the equipment companies & car companies; the education industry doesn't have the option of moving !
  What you union apologists seem to forget that in this instance your demands, your fighting and rioting is not against corporations or stockholders; it's not even against the officials of the state of Wisconsin, Ohio and so forth !  Yoiur rioting, cursing and accusations are against the taxpayers of those states.  Your neighbors who are in most cases, already making far less for far more work than what you do.  Nearly all of them are ready to shake off the slavish yoke you "public servants" have placed about their collective necks !  Be ready for a jolt...the gravy train is coming to an abrupt stop !!
     
     Note:  I will never forget how the current administration robbed the taxpayers to buy out the auto companies. The auto companies will never pay all back with interest, but still the Chicago mob politicians gave part of each company to the unions !
  I will NEVER buy any of those products, and as patriarch of a large family, and influential with many in my community...will caution all I can about what was done and who to buy from..
   

[carbineman]

skookum wrote<<<You own "A GUN" ? I own a whole bunch of them. And whats more I shoot them on a weekly basis. Not off of a bench poking holes in paper, but I actually shoot them, off-hand at long ranges standing on my hind legs. And I hit what I'm aiming at a vast majority of the time>>>> End of quoted text.

Looks like I might have hit a little too close to home on that analogy snookums. Glad to hear that you at least own a gun and do some shooting weekly. I shoot every week also, and hope to get concealed carry or Vermont style carry soon here in Taxconsin. The last time we tried to get it the democrats and the democrat union loving/freedom hating goobenor vetoed it twice. Our new governor would sign it. Once he busts up the unionized government workers privileged union we can get down to serious matters like enumerating our 2nd Amendment birthright, abolishing the DNR, reigning in out of control state government spending, isolating certain government monies from those who would relocate them to other parts of the government that only benefit government employees, like when Doyle robbed the transportation fund and gave the money to the teachers, while the bridge over the Zoo interchange in Beertown was falling apart. Hopefully the state power/heat/steam plants can be gotten rid off so we don't have to stick a single dime back into them. A real help would be to defund public radio and tv a real cesspool of liberals and liberalism that we ALL have to pay for. So I'm hoping we get those pesky unions busted up so we can advance on to real serious matters.

[ironglow]

  Skookum whines about Alabama and it's "backward" ways.    Yes, Skookum..backward enough to be attracting whole sections of an Industry Detroit once dominated...until the unions drove it out !
   Alabama may hve a slightly lower living standard by your estimation..but places like Detroit, Buffalo and other "blue state" cities aren't exactly duplicates of Paradise  (BTW; I'm in the north) !  If most cities of the north where unemployment is endemic have a higher standard of living than Alabama, you can rest assured it is being done on borrowed money..and soon the piper must be paid.
  Those auto plants which DD mentioned are a sight to behold !  They are spread throughout the south, concentrated where the states have been intelligent enough to preserve civil rights...such as the "right to work".  I have driven route 55 between Memphis and New Orleans many times.  About midway, at Canton, MS there is a modern auto mfg facility.  It is a Nissan plant and it is a full mile long, running beside the highway.. Undoubtedly, most of the others are as impressive.  I would like to see the new Hyundai facility...believe it's in ..shhhh..Alabama..
   Talk to the people who work there !  They are for the most part, happy with their work, pay and benefits.  They aren't continnually arguing with their employer..bellyaching about wages and being general nuisances.  They are probably well aware that the only way the union 'Boss hoggs' can retain control is for them to keep up an " us vs them" atmosphere, which does not well serve the management or the workers..slight-of-hand trick, southern workers seem to grasp much more quickly than their northern counterparts...
     ...And to think..Detroit may well have had these many plants, had the unions not destroyed all attempts to attract them !

    I know it's going to be rough as the unions die, one-by-one...but the union bosses and their lackeys will just have to find honest work !

[billy_56081]

For being backwards those folks from Alabama sure know how to put up on heck of a good website.

[scootrd]

Yes, why are they setting up shop someplace else? That "some other place" is more freindly to set up shop. Simple as that.

No. They are setting up shop somewhere else to exploit Cheap labor.to increase their bottom line. You cannot argue more tax friendly as an example when most don't pay taxes now anyways.

[scootrd]

When liberals start the sky is falling, doomsday, scare tactics you know they have lost the arguement,

Have you been living in a vacuum the last 9 years ?
We have been nothing but governed by fear through all of the last administration. WMD ..NOPE NOT THERE! Today we are at level orange ..What the heck was level orange? , Heathcare if this passes the world will come to an immediate end.  Death Panels ...and on and on and on ....

Guess what ? everyone is still here. -  give it a rest , You don't even have a leg to stand on. Fear is the national strategy  of the new wingnut Far right republicans.

Here was March 4th's 2010 News  -- OOPS !!!! - Leaked documents reveal GOP plan to use scare tactics to raise money

National GOP leaders are doing damage control today after a Politico scoop lifted the curtain on the party's plan to tap voters' "fear" in the coming campaign season. The PR problem started when an absent-minded attendee at the Republican National Committee (RNC) confab on February 18 in Boca Grande, Florida, left a 72-page document from its 2010 strategizing session in a hotel room.

[scootrd]

Alabama lowered their corporate income tax and I think actually do not tax any corporation who locates here.

Alabama is 6.5%

Corporate State Tax Rates for 2010, 2011

Alabama: 6.5%,
Alaska:1%>$0, 2%>$10K, 3%>20K, 4%>30K, 5%>40K, 6%>50K, 7%>60K, 8%>70K, 9%>80K, 9.4%>90K,
Arizona: 6.98%,
Arkansas: 1%>$0, 2%>3K, 3%>6K, 5%>11K, 6%>25K, 6.5%>100%,
California: 8.84%,
Colorado: 4.63%,
Connecticut: 7.5%,
Delaware:8.7%,
Florida: 5.5%,
Georgia: 6%,
Hawaii: 4.4%>$0, 5.4%>25K,
Idaho: 7.6%,
Illinois: 7.3%,
Indiana: 8.5%,
Iowa: 6%>$0, 8%>25K, 10%>100K, 12%>250K,
Kansas: 4%>$0, 7.05>50K,
Kentucky: 4.0%>$0, 5%>50K, 6%>100K,
Louisiana:4%>$0, 5%>25K, 6%>50K, 7>100K, 8%>200K,
Maine: 3.5%>$0, 7.93%>25K, 8.33%>75K, 8.93%>250K,
Maryland:8.2%
Massachusetts: 9.5%,
Michigan: 4.95%,
Minnesota:9.8%,
Mississippi: 3%>$0, 4%>5K, 5%>10K,
Missouri: 6.2%, Montana:6.75%,
Nebraska: 5.58%>$0, 7.81>100K,
New Hampshire:8.5%,
New Jersey: 6.5%>$0, 7.5%>50K, 9%>100K,
New Mexico:4.8%-$0, 6.4%>500K, 7.6%>$1,000,000,
New York: 7.1%, North Carolina: 6.9%,
North Dakota:2.6%>$0, 4.1%>3K, 5.6%>8K, 6.4%>20K, 6.5%>30K,
Ohio: .26%>$0,
Oklahoma: 6%, Oregon: 6.6%, 7.9%>250K,
Pennsylvania: 9.99%,
Rhode Island: 9%,
South Carolina: 5%,
Tennessee:6.5%,
Utah: 5%,
Vermont: 6%>$0, 7>10K, 8.5%>25K,
Virginia: 6%,
West Virginia: 8.5%,
Wisconsin: 7.9%,
District of Columbia: 9.975%

[Dixie Dude]

Corporations don't pay tax for the first 5 years I think they locate here.  Income tax is low in Alabama.  Property tax is low.  If you are over 65 you don't pay property tax to the state.  A city or county might levy some.  I live here so I know what I read in the papers for these new industries.  Alabama also pays to train their employees.  Pay for these new auto factories is higher than the old textile mills who left and went overseas.  They also provide health care etc.  The main reason they locate here is it is a right to work state.  A factory can be union if the majority of workers vote to have a union, but you don't have to join.  I work with several contractors and only one is union.  The non-union companies installing pipelines are far more flexible in changes.  The unionised company has everyone specialised that we have to wait for certain things to get done.  It is a pain to work with them. 

[scootrd]

Latest Wisconsin Recall News

A coordinator of the effort against Sen. Randy Hopper (R-Fond du Lac) announced this week that that campaign was close to being finished collecting signatures and could file as early as next week. Scott Dillman, who's working to recall Senator Hopper, says he will turn them in when he's double-checked them all.

Hey Billy hope your keeping count - That's 2 .  - with over a month left

In other recall news, even though Sen. Alberta Darling said during a luncheon at the Madison Club on Thursday that she doesn't think she'll be recalled, she appears to have confidence there will at the least be enough signatures to trigger a recall election. Shorewood Patch reported on Saturday that Darling has opened a brand new campaign headquarters.

Kristopher Rowe, the leader of the effort to recall Darling, said his group is moving from borrowed space in Shorewood to rented offices in Glendale. Since March 3, hundreds of volunteers have fanned out through the district collecting signatures on recall petitions, mostly on weekends. Rowe declined to say how many signatures have been obtained, but said he was confident that his group would exceed the required 20,343 needed by April 29 by 5,000 to 8,000.

[billy_56081]

What about Governor Walker?

[Cabin4]

Corporations don't pay tax for the first 5 years I think they locate here.  Income tax is low in Alabama.  Property tax is low.  If you are over 65 you don't pay property tax to the state.  A city or county might levy some.  I live here so I know what I read in the papers for these new industries.  Alabama also pays to train their employees.  Pay for these new auto factories is higher than the old textile mills who left and went overseas.  They also provide health care etc.  The main reason they locate here is it is a right to work state.  A factory can be union if the majority of workers vote to have a union, but you don't have to join.  I work with several contractors and only one is union.  The non-union companies installing pipelines are far more flexible in changes.  The unionised company has everyone specialised that we have to wait for certain things to get done.  It is a pain to work with them.

Some will consider you a liar here. Its not true. Companies are not moving there. As long as TM and Scoot can find one company with a factory over seas, no companies should exsist. We are going to march down there and force the close of those factories. Raise there tax and force those companies out of business. Get on the welfare line. You dont; deserve to work at a company that contributes to GDP. Go get a job with the state and you can go home every night knowing your screwing your fellow Americans over.

[Cabin4]

Many are setting up shop overseas for to avoid paying tax in the USA. If you lower the tax rates, lower than the tax rate they pay in the overseas country; some of the business will come back. Then you can tax them. Close the loop holes as well. But some people are too stupid understand the math. Tax rates have to be competitive just like everything else. It’s a cost of doing business. Just like you search for competitive high quality suppliers when you’re building a product, you also search for a competitive tax and regulatory environment as well. No, it will not bring back every job but it will bring back jobs and it will increase tax revenues higher than they are today. Everybody wins.
This country in going down the crapper and from some of the people posting around here it’s no wonder why. The whining, crying, demanding and complaining for tax increases on everyone else while demanding for pay raises for themselves is proof of just how greedy this labor movement is. Its no wonder factories are moving over seas. The labor movement is a greedy bunch of thugs.

[DDZ]

The US debt is at around 14 trillion, the debt per us citizen is around 46 thousand, and the debt per US tax payer is 128 thousand. What cracks me up is that the pro union crowd mentality is, make the corporations pay more taxes. This is even when the US has about the highest corporate tax rate in the world. How do they think this will help anything, when government has shown over and over again that they can not spend money sensibly, nor can they fix any of our problems with more money. The more money government takes in the more waste and corruption there is.
 The thinking behind “tax the evil corporations”, is that government can spend the money better than corporations and tax payers can, and tax on corporations does end up costing everyone. Money kept by companies and individuals is what makes the economy strong, and growing. Not giving more of it to government.

I often hear people calling conservatives uncompassionate. I have even read it on one of these 40 pages. I hear union members at work talking about their union brothers, and “we have to stick together” slogans. When they could care less about anyone else, or any company that is struggling. Every union I have seen, its all about the union and what they can get. Not what is good for the company or the tax payer, or the country. It’s a, “I’ve got mine” mentality. Yet they want everyone to believe differently.
The facts prove that conservatives give way more of their time and money to charities, then liberals, and liberal union members. The only time there is compassion involved with them, is when its someone else’s money, but that is another topic.

Taxing corporations will not even put a dent in this. Taxing people won’t either.
http://www.usdebtclock.org/

[Skookum]

Skookum whines about Alabama and it's "backward" ways.    Yes, Skookum..backward enough to be attracting whole sections of an Industry Detroit once dominated...until the unions drove it out !

ironglow,

  Show me the quote where I said Alabama is "backwards". I don't recall that part. Oh, I know ...you decided to make that up. Well, well, well staying true to the cause eh??

"Whine"? I'll leave that to you. Since you seemed to have mastered it so well. What with those mean old Unions taking your money for protecting your family , and maybe dragging you out of a burning building sometime. Keeping your streets paved, etc. I guess once they're gone you'll just do those things in your free time. 

If you don't have an intelligent argument, just make it up as you go. Facts be damned, I'll just fabricate something and get the paranoia rolling. Tea Party Doctrine is alive and well here. 

Too bad it won't be around much longer, but then neither will Scott Walker and his 8 Senate cronies.

Enjoy your misery. I know I'm enjoying it.

 

 

[Dixie Dude]

This country started being divided by "class" warfare back in the Clinton administration.  Obama is making it worse.  Wall street is were the industries buy and sell stock.  If they don't sell stock, they don't have the capital to grow and expand.  Simple.  They want their companies to have a profit.  The argument here is not about unions, it is about government union workers.  Government doesn't make a product, doesn't sell a product.  It must rely on private business and industry for taxes to support itself.  I am in private industry.  I am tired of paying taxes to government union workers who make more than me.  Fair is fair, but government workers have cradle to grave benefits.  Their pay and benefits should be an average of what the general public gets.  Unions were probably needed in their heyday, but no longer with laws that have been passed.  We have OSHA to protect the workers, we have minimum wage laws, child labor laws, overtime laws, sexual harrisment laws, etc, etc.  Unions are just plain not needed anymore. 

[ironglow]

Skookum says;
   " ironglow,

  Show me the quote where I said Alabama is "backwards". I don't recall that part. Oh, I know ...you decided to make that up. Well, well, well staying true to the cause eh?? "


  Hey Skookum;
       Pretty good device you have there...  Ask me a question...and then answer it for me ! How clever !    
  Please note; in your post # 1164 you quote some random 'poverty pimps' organization who accuses Alabama of being especially stricken with poverty.   Just because some 'poverty pouters' pursuing funds and grants says something is so...that doesn't make it graven in stone!.a  Your argument is basically that Alabama woiuld be much better off, were it to cave to spoiled-brat unions...
  Let's look at  a city which for many years has been a union citadel..a bulwark against "scabs".  I speak of none other than Detroit, the motor city ! 
   Let's have a look at what unions have done for Detroit:
 
 http://www.themotorlesscity.com/category/poverty/

  http://www.flickr.com/photos/detroitderek/sets/72157601861458499/

   
         
  In his last post, Skookums tries to say I "make things up"..that's interesting..just read what Skookums said in his post # 1161;

  "
  "That's Rich! Scare Tactics?! The TP was founded on fear, the Right-Wing sustains itself by using fear. "Obama is creating death panels", "Obama's a Muslim who was smuggled in as an infant to destroy the U.S.", " If Obama is elected, black gangs will be raping your daughters". "Obama's a Nazi, no wait, he's a Marxist, or is it a Communist , he's a Facist , he hates White People." And the same old, same old... "He was born in Kenya and was trained as a Mau Mau." Only a paranoid fool would believe any of this crap"

     ...Now I ask you fellows..really; ...who is it that "makes things up" ??   
 

[Dixie Dude]

I lived in Michigan as a kid in the late 50's early 60's.  My stepfather worked at Ford.  My parents were from Alabama.  Detroit in 1960 had the highest standard of living of any city it's size in the US, and we lived in Dearborn.  Today, it is rock bottom.  My parents moved back to Alabama in 1962.  Partially homesick, partially industry moving south, like the tire manufacturing companies in the 1960's, Uniroyal, Goodyear, Goodrich.  Michelin came later.  Taxes better, climate warmer.  One reason industry doesn't like to locate in South Alabama is hurricanes.  The fastest growing area of the US is the I-85 corridor from Montgomery to Virginia.  It is far enough south to avoid blizzards, far enough inland to avoid hurricanes, good transportation rail and the Interstate system.  An the largest international airport at it's hub.  Also, all the states in this area are "right to work" states.  As far as teachers salaries vs cost of living, Alabama ranks 16th or 17th in the nation.  Not the highest paid, but cost of living is lower than other areas.  Again, money isn't everything. 

[Buckskin]

President Obama is expected to officially launch his 2012 presidential reelection campaign this week. The organization is forming up in Chicago, and it could spend as much as $1 billion.


Oh dear, the Donkey's won't have any money for campaining anymore. Whatever will they do???

[Cabin4]

Corporations don't pay tax for the first 5 years I think they locate here.  Income tax is low in Alabama.  Property tax is low.  If you are over 65 you don't pay property tax to the state.  A city or county might levy some.  I live here so I know what I read in the papers for these new industries.  Alabama also pays to train their employees.  Pay for these new auto factories is higher than the old textile mills who left and went overseas.  They also provide health care etc.  The main reason they locate here is it is a right to work state.  A factory can be union if the majority of workers vote to have a union, but you don't have to join.  I work with several contractors and only one is union.  The non-union companies installing pipelines are far more flexible in changes.  The unionised company has everyone specialised that we have to wait for certain things to get done.  It is a pain to work with them.

Some will consider you a liar here. Its not true. Companies are not moving there. As long as TM and Scoot can find one company with a factory over seas, no companies should exsist. We are going to march down there and force the close of those factories. Raise there tax and force those companies out of business. Get on the welfare line. You dont; deserve to work at a company that contributes to GDP. Go get a job with the state and you can go home every night knowing your screwing your fellow Americans over.

C4....enough with the vitriolic astroturfing already.....Business' have been moving to the  Sun Belt  for 40 years now--way before the tax and union cry-a-thon...Alabama's 6.5% corp rate is not zero nor all that great...the 5 year tax exemption is to attrack corps no doubt....state's do that. States are corporations legally....they see income from a rising tax base from corps and /or employeed citizens. States love rising income from tax revenues, whether they are Democrat or Repub run.

When corps move the first thing they look at in their business plan is compliant cheaper Labor, energy costs, location to ports and shipping and markets (road system in Alabama has been subsidized by tax payers across the nation...mostly by NE tax exporting states)...then they look at tax...and of course depreciation. Alabama's corp tax of 6.5% is not all that perfect...I wouldn't know what their loopholes/exemptions are.


The US and State tax codes already incentivize rellocations....new equipment and plants are depreciated. The tax codes for corps and small business are already pretty good in this country...the problem is they're too good for allowing corps to offshore and hide incomes offshore. Next business I set up will be at a PO box in the Caymans...that will be my home office...all revenue/profit will be sourced to that PO Box...I will have meetings there twice a year for two weeks on my sail boat...

I say if these corps have it so bad here...let them leave and take their management with them....don't let them back in....ever. Move over and let somebody else take over here....like somebody who actually wants to be here for example.!!

...TM7

Enough with the Big Government tax and spend policies and evil corporation garbage TM. Get out of your house and see whats going on in the real world. Its good to get a job in the private sector and find out what it takes for a business to work in the real world. We do live in a real world. Its not like the government out here. You have to produce and sell something. Out here you can;t just demand that people buy from you like in the government monopoly. They have a choice unlike what you find in your government jobs. The government just robs from the people because they can and gives it to the state workers. I don't know how you can stand working for a corrupt evil thief employer like the government. Your always talking about how evil the corporations are yet who brings us real jobs and the things people need to live? And who steals our money and sends our kids off to fight and die in senceless wars? Your employer, the good government.  So whos the real evil employer? Whos the real astorturfer?

[ironglow]

President Obama is expected to officially launch his 2012 presidential reelection campaign this week. The organization is forming up in Chicago, and it could spend as much as $1 billion.


Oh dear, the Donkey's won't have any money for campaining anymore. Whatever will they do???

  Buckskin;
           Jimmy Carter II  is quite confident of a billion dollars to work with.  Wonder how much of that ..one way or another, will come from Soros ?  Perhaps for this kind of money there may be a collusion between a few of the super-wealthy to provide the funds.
 
        Hmmmm..anything there TM ?

[Skookum]

 

In his last post, Skookums tries to say I "make things up"..that's interesting..just read what Skookums said in his post # 1161;

  "
  "That's Rich! Scare Tactics?! The TP was founded on fear, the Right-Wing sustains itself by using fear. "Obama is creating death panels", "Obama's a Muslim who was smuggled in as an infant to destroy the U.S.", " If Obama is elected, black gangs will be raping your daughters". "Obama's a Nazi, no wait, he's a Marxist, or is it a Communist , he's a Facist , he hates White People." And the same old, same old... "He was born in Kenya and was trained as a Mau Mau." Only a paranoid fool would believe any of this crap"

     ...Now I ask you fellows..really; ...who is it that "makes things up" ??

I can substantiate the quotes that I posted. All of them made by Tea Baggers, Palin, Beck, Grassley, Huckabee and other assorted lame-brains. I don't see your quote of me saying the Alabama was "backward". Where it is it??? I didn't "quote" anyone from the 13.com site, I copied and pasted it verbatum and hi-lited an excerpt.

So now you profess to be an expert on poverty in Alabama? You can't produce facts, so you make up drivel to divert the discussion away from any valid argument that may expose you. You're not as sharp as you fancy yourself to be. You sit at a computer where you can safely stir the pot with fabrications, throw out cutsie little insults to show everyone how clever you are.  And your little smiley faces    

" ...Now I ask you fellows..really; ...who is it that "makes things up" ?? Why are you asking them? You made the statement. Now you're asking them to impune their credibility to back-up your fabrication...really?

  Yeah, "FELLOWS" who is it??

"Skookums"? Okay ironglob...where's the quote? "Man-Up!!!" (Another TP favorite.)       

       
 

[Dixie Dude]

Have any of you union/liberal guys had any college economics?  I have, and the government doesn't produce anything, it only takes, redistributes and spends.  The only necessary function of government for over 150 year in America was to take care of roads, national defence, and to "regulate" commerce, not take over commerce.  Whenever a government grows too big, it eventually fails.  Soviet Union, eastern Europe, Nazi Germany, Rome, etc.  Our government especially the Feds is way too big.  Someone eventually has to pay.  When you drain too much from business, individuals, etc, things start falling apart.  The government has allowed too many banking and oil mergers in the last 30 or so years, therefore no competition, no checks and balances.  There are only a handful of big banks, and a handful of big oil companies.  Our government started getting too big in the 60's with Johnson's Great Society program.  Too much welfare, social security was solvent but the extra cash was used to start Medicare and Medicaid which eventually drained that.  In 2008 the Feds took in $400 billion + in highway taxes, but only gave back about $200 billion, so the highway money was raided to pay for social programs, and you wonder why the infrastructure is falling apart.  The Feds mismanage a lot.  We need a ballanced budget amendment, except for time of war or national emergencies.  Government doesn't need to get involved in every aspect of our lives.  Leave us alone.  Nor should government employees get paid more than the national average for their compatable job skills.  Fair is fair.  Union or no union. 

[Skookum]

Nor should government employees get paid more than the national average for their compatable job skills.  Fair is fair.  Union or no union.

 


Back in March, in response to a similar USA Today analysis, then-White House OMB director Peter Orszag explained why accounting for these differences in skill level and education between the federal and private workforces is crucial in comparing compensation. Orszag stated that "when education and age are held constant, the entire difference in average pay between the federal and private sectors disappears":

f, as some media reports claim, federal workers were earning roughly $8,000 more than private-sector workers in occupations that exist both in the government and private sector for no reason at all, that would be troubling. But the truth is that a comparison of federal and private-sector pay, even by occupation, is misleading because the employees hired by the federal government often have higher levels of education than their counterparts in the private sector - even within the same occupations.  When you factor in the education and experience of the federal workforce, there is no statistically significant difference in average pay levels.

Take registered nurses working at the Veterans Administration. They care for the complex injuries and illnesses of our wounded warriors and veterans.  Partly reflecting the complexity of the care they deliver, nurses working for the federal government are more than twice as likely to have a college degree as those employed by the private sector (24 percent relative to 11 percent).  As another example, database administrators are twice as likely to have a post-collegiate degree in the federal government as those working in the private sector (31 percent versus 16 percent).

Overall, roughly half the federal workforce has a college degree, compared to about a third in the private sector. Most of the difference (82 percent) in average pay between the federal government and the private sector is explained by these differences in education. Holding education constant, federal workers earn $1,604 more than their private-sector counterparts on average. That is where the experience of the federal workforce comes into play.  More experienced workers tend to earn more, and the federal workforce, by and large, is older on average than the private workforce. If you hold education and age constant - and thus have an apples to apples comparison - federal employees earn slightly less than those in the private sector on average, although the difference is not statistically significant.