Democratic senators bail ship

[XD40SC]

For those of you who want to reduce teacher salaries and benefits. You need to think ahead. We are behind in science and math. Why would a very qualified person with a degree in science and math take a low paying teaching job when they could make much more and have better benefits in the private sector. You get what you pay for and if you want us to succeed we are going to have to pay for it. It is an investment in our future as a country. I want the best doctors to work on me and I want the best teachers to teach my children. It ain't gonna happen if the funds aren't there.

[Pat/Rick]

http://www.edweek.org/media/2010/04/05/28tenure-c1.jpg  Well I had to search around a bit. It looks like they all do according to this, just different amount of time for them to reach it.Don't know exactly when this was drawn up. Also found a number of articles that some states are reviewing the tenure structure. Teachers can of course be fired but it seems like it takes more than what it does in the private sector. Teachers like everybody else in the private sector, along with gov't employees should get paid on expertise and merit. Do a good job you'll get top pay. There are alot of teachers who earn every bit of pay they get and in cases deserve more. There are also alot of teachers who have their jobs because of their tenured status. WA state has tenured teachers.
  XD we definently deserve to have the best teachers and naturally want that for our descendents, but there are a few that would have been better off using their college funds to persue another career. Sometimes its awful hard to justify voting, or having the districts ask for a levy to be passed.

[Cabin4]

For those of you who want to reduce teacher salaries and benefits. You need to think ahead. We are behind in science and math. Why would a very qualified person with a degree in science and math take a low paying teaching job when they could make much more and have better benefits in the private sector. You get what you pay for and if you want us to succeed we are going to have to pay for it. It is an investment in our future as a country. I want the best doctors to work on me and I want the best teachers to teach my children. It ain't gonna happen if the funds aren't there.

Salaries have nothing to do with it. They are already overpaid and to your point, our kids are behind. So its not about money when it comes to the kids education levels. The issue at hand is about what is competitive in the market and what can the tax payers afford. Teachers unions and the rest of the unions are greedy pigs. They could care less about the kids. Parents care more about thier own kids than any over paid teacher.

[eye shot]

Now days most teachers don't pay there way in college, there parents do. It's very good pay for nine months work of six hours a day. A college degree in education is the lowest you can get, it's called kitty lit. There sick days should not carry over from year to year or even get so many in the fist place, talk about a golden parachute. TM you want the state to tax the rich more, well the teachers are the rich. I worked union forty two years and had to pay into my health ins. and pention. We got no sick days and no vacation. So I guess my taxes are supposed pay for public employes to have it all? I think all that left there jobs should be fired plus the senitors. Theres alot of americans out there that would work for a little less. The greed of it all. Parden my spelling I had a bad spelling teacher. I hope they do the same in Ohio to help balance the states books.

[XD40SC]

For those of you that think teachers are overpaid. You should get a degree and teach. If not you than have your children and grandchildren. After all { pay for only 9 months work, an easy job, sick days = of course not found in any of the private sector-,no student loans to repay= your children would get out of a 4 year college debt free because you the parent would pay for it. ,you, they can make America greater by being an excellent teacher and educating and motivating students, and getting rich to boot}.What an opportunity for you and your children. It's certainly worth looking into.

[Dee]

THE STATE OF WISCONSIN IS BROKE! THEY CAN NO LONGER PAY THE TEACHER'S UNIONS, OR ANY OTHER UNIONS FOR THAT MATTER, 100% FREE INSURANCE ECT. WHICH IS WHAT BROKE THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE. WHAT PART OF BROKE DO SOME OF YOU NOT UNDERSTAND? YOU MAY NOT LIKE THE CHANGE THAT'S COMING, BUT YOUR WHINNING WILL NOT STOP THE CHANGE. THE FEED TROUGH IS EMPTY. SAAVY?

[turk762]

For those of you that think teachers are overpaid. You should get a degree and teach. If not you than have your children and grandchildren. After all { pay for only 9 months work, an easy job, sick days = of course not found in any of the private sector-,no student loans to repay= your children would get out of a 4 year college debt free because you the parent would pay for it. ,you, they can make America greater by being an excellent teacher and educating and motivating students, and getting rich to boot}.What an opportunity for you and your children. It's certainly worth looking into.

It is good that they have such a valuable degree, let them go try and get a compairable job else where!!! They will not find one even close, even if they lose their bargaining right.

Go get a teaching degree??
I know a quite a few people that do have teaching degrees and are very well qualified too teach, the two that I know the best, one is a mechanic, the other is a clerk at a store.

So to get a teaching degree in WI doesnt promise you anything, but chances are good you will not get to use it!!!!

I have a associate criminal justice degree from a very good local tech. college and was certified for Law Enforcement in WI. For every ONE job you get 100-200 applicants in LE, even before the economy took a dump. These are very good jobs in WI, and if these people dont want to do them their a lots of qualified people that will take their place.

TM7, $75000 a year salary in WI puts you toward the top of the foodchain. Working in construction I know many small business owners that dont make much more and have much more risk.

[Pat/Rick]

The teachers I know here in WA state do pretty well. I have never asked their salary rates. I do know that they have the option, at least in our district, to get their pay over nine months or over twelve months.
  Its the choice of the student how they pay for college. Student loans? Their choice, nobody forced them to sign the papers.My son is going to college now for a history degree. he gets his monthly check and his books and tuition PAID.  The GI Bill is a good thing. If a student is revolted by the idea of joining the military,(most kids nowdays think those that do are loosers). Then their choice is theirs. My wife is currently paying for her masters. She is the nurse manager for the county's health dept here. She could stand to make more in a larger county, but shouldn't make the same as "everybody else" in that same profession.

"and getting rich to boot}".  Not many people get rich from "a job" Teachers generally have MORE paid holidays than the private sector as well, with other benefits matching or exceeding the private sector.  Maybe if some folks don't think that teaching is "right for them" after starting out that way, maybe they should just change jobs change jobs. I did that, and I used my GI Bill to pay for the training.
                         
  Alot of it sounds to me like those involved in the current round of protests are just crying about getting more for less, and forcing the union on others.                                                                       

[Dee]

It's kinda like a farmer raising wheat and the whining about the price it brings. Quit raising the damn stuff, and plant somethin else. These folks want up there in Wisconsin what the State does not have. They will not be satisfied, until they don't have a job, and then they'll cry about that.

[Pat/Rick]

Well, I had to go look it up, the average salary for teachers in WA state is $54,033. Now that comes out to about 28 dollars and change, were that converted to a forty hour a week job. What are they whining about!? I for one do not think that the job is worth more than that, when I would have to deprogram the liberal bravo sierra that my kids would come home with. Or drive through a school parking lot and see the bumper stickers on teachers cars that say "It'll be a great day when the Air Force has to have a bake sale to buy a bomber". It must suck to hate this nation but still get paid to have veterans day off. (not all teachers are like that. (disclaimer).
  If a "teacher" doesn't like their job, they can go onward to another profession. Boo Hoo.

[lakota]

America lags behind other nations in education because here in so many core curriculums we stress humanities and social studies while other nations are learning SCIENCES that is to say things that may actually be useful in the real world. I am in nursing school right now and I had to take 12 credit hours in humanities. an entire semester wasted. An entire semester that could have been spent on actual NURSING classes or life sciences.

And as for these public employee unions-it is time for them to join the rest of us in the real world. I am sick and tired of paying exorbitant taxes to fund someone else's american dream at the expense of mine.

[Mohawk]

They need to count their blessings that they at least have a job. Many folks don't. They closed schools because teachers were protesting for personal reasons on the taxpayer dime. They should be docked pay and probably fired! And with cuts to education coming a teacher will be a dime a dozen. If I was a parent in Wisconsin I would be up in arms. It reminds me of the person that gets a free meal and has the audacity to complain on the flavor of the sauce. Austin alone is about to layoff hundreds of teachers. Maybe they can find work in Madison?

[Dee]

Yep! And now doctors are giving written absent excuses so they can continue to protest. Some doctors are at the protests giving the written excuses on site. When the news films this, and folks still defend them, it is very telling.

[Mohawk]

Sad, Sad, Sad.

[carbineman]

TM7 wrote,<<<and he wouldn't have further indemnified those class of taxpayers that can well afford to help out with Wisconsin's problems at this point, >>> End of quoted text

Why is it that you constantly suggest that you be able to reach into somebody elses pocket to fund your dream?

Those who think like you, for the most part, always seem to think that there is this pot of gold at the end of the rainbow that you can, by government decree, secure for you and yours as a public employee.

The whole situation as I see it in Wisconsin like many other states; WE ARE OUT OF MONEY TO GIVE AND WE ARE GOING TO CHANGE THINGS-GET OVER IT -YOUR SIDE FOR THE MOMENT HAS LOST[/color-

If you think this is a bad deal then next time get your McGovernink elected and you can then make the rules. Right now their is a new sheriff in town, and he is enacting his vision and not kicking the can down the road for a future politico to deal with.

[gypsyman]

One thing to remember to is, what these teachers are doing, really sets a fine example to the kids they are teaching. And also what the senators are doing. Lets teach the kids by example. Job gets tough, lets just get up and leave. I don't think that the Dem's have come back yet. gypsyman

[magooch]

It seems to me that the malfeasance of the Dumycrats in Wisonsin has pointed the way for all politicians to attempt to win when they've lost.  It should also show the problem with an inadequate quorum rule. 

The rule should be that if legislators are informed and given a chance to attend and they choose not to, a quorum should be declared and get on with it.

[Mohawk]

If a 20 yr career teacher is making 75 K a year than they are rich in my eyes. My 6th grade teacher who I have kept in contact with is stuck at 47 K and has 28 years. And she is head of the department. These teachers are just venting because they will have to "work for food" like the everybody else and the gravy train is ending. And yes, that means attending class everyday, maintain performance standards, and accept the fact that you run the risk, everyday, of getting fired, just like everyone else. Because everyone knows, there are thousands of folks that will do your job without all the drama and hassle. And yes, tenure for teachers exists in Florida. A teacher there, reportedly likes to make fun of special needs children. She still has a job. I think the mother has been petitioning the state leg. to end teacher tenure.

[gypsyman]

TM, Walker just got elected. Hasn't been in office for more than 2 months. If there is any smokescreening, it belongs to the Democrats that were in charge for the last couple terms. That's like blaming Bush for the housing scandal. It was Frank and the Dem's that caused that fiasco, and Bush warned about it several years ago.
Now your blaming Walker. If he had been in office 2 years like Obama, I could see your point. Better try harder. It's plain and simple, unions have nagotiated way to many days off with pay,health insurance,retirement and the like. NO MONEY LEFT. It's time to pay the piper. And their all squeeling like a bunch of over feed pigs. gypsyman

[guzzijohn]

I find it quite humorous and frustrating how many like to pick on teachers and how cushy the job is. This is my 22nd year in education and I have a masters degree. I no longer work as a classroom teacher but I am required to keep my license and I am paid on a teacher's scale. I make about 48K and that is with working 10 more days than the average teacher. My share of the health care costs come out to about $500 a month with $2,000 deductible. Six percent of my pay is a mandatory withdraw toward the state retirement system which may not even be there when I retire. Many teachers have to buy the majority of the classroom supplies (in my district a teacher receives $300 a year for ALL classroom supplies except textbooks). I have to renew my license every five years and in many of those five year cycles I have had to take more college classes which I have to pay 100% for. Most good teachers work an average of 60+ hours a week and more if they coach or are a club sponsor. As far as passing students on that have not mastered grade level work, please refer that to the local school board and parents since they are the ones that usually force promotion, not the teachers or administrators. I have seen school boards force teachers to change grades to pass a student that was flunking. In comparison my previous wife had a four year degree in computer science and she always made about twice what I made in any given year plus 100% paid health care with no deductibles. She would have liked to teach but did not want to take a 50% pay cut to do it.
GuzziJohn

[carbineman]

TM7 wrote in black text, I responded in red

I think that's an illusion of yours, some kind of talking point that doesn't pass muster. Scapegoating one group of employees and unions because the State of Wisconsin mismanaged funds, principlely pension funds which were ripped off by Wall ST, is just plain dishonest. To complicate matters this scapegoating is preventing going after the real culprits of this swindle. Here is your chance to name namesWalker is running cover for these guys and the T-Party, a corporate media invention, has convinced a certain type of person to accept bringing 'all workers' down to their level...i.e. 'race to the bottom'. (Even though I believe most T-Partyers have a large share of gov and mil pensioners to begin with )Again to help us understand who you mean, this your chance to name names
...go figure. I believe the average Wisconsin worker retires on 19,000/yr just above the poverty line for a family of three. Many, perhaps, 1/4, do not have Social Security benefits as well...so this is a very very important cause for them.You believe or you know?

Walker is further smokescreening for these swindlers,Again tell us who these swindlers are not going about retrieving the funds, and his ultimate goal is to  'privatize' many state jobs as he canI do believe this and agree with it. What is wrong with private sector jobs. That is how I earn my living on my own as Hank Hill would say it is my own personal private personal business......at that point kiss the middle class good-bye, kiss worker's bargaining good-bye, 'free-riders' can kiss good pay and beneifts good-bye, and Wisconsin's taxpayers can say hello to vastly higher taxes once privatization takes control. I've been saying hello to higher taxes for along time now.Last year alone my property taxes here in Cheeseville rose 19.8% and school taxes alone 23.8% . These are facts I know not what I believe. Walker, and his elite monied supporters, have the primary goal of crushing these unions and THEN PRIVATIZING AS MANY JOBS AS POSSIBLE.
that would be good in my estimation  I like the plan. The more people out of the government the more freedom we enjoy. We don't have to pay for the assistant to the assistant....this is his agenda. This means handing off the job market to the same people that set Wisconsin on the road to insolvency in the first place, and it means bringing all workers down to a very menial level by privatization....and privatization rarely, if ever, saves money. Of course you have data to back this up. I'm sure this just isn't hyperbole. This is the kind of change I voted for. Change in my pocket not in someone elses

There is plenty of log-jammed up money in Wisconsin to help solve this problem at this time. Show me the money!Blaming  many workers for the the sins and crimes of the few corpo rip-offs,  name the names and give us proofseems to be the battle cry of the T-Partyers, but doesn't make much sense, when they should be more closely looking at what really happened and where the money went. Given the T-Party's elite corpo supporters Tell us who they areand steering committees it doesn't look like that is about to happen. I.E....the Gadphens Flag should say "Don't Tread On Us" NDefine us? Surely you are not suggesting that the rights of a certain group do not trump my individual right. Are you saying the union workers as a group should have "rights" that I don't have or are these just privileges?

[jimster]

I think all the debate and arguments are great, but none of it makes a bit of difference either way...the money is gone. There is no more money to wrecklessly spend, there is no more money to increase year after year, and if it's not increased, it's somehow a cut.  There simply is no more money.  A couple of people on here say pick the pockets of those who have it...good, go ahead, they will be gone in a blink of an eye, and while the state unions are counting on that money they will increase spending two fold on what they think is coming in. 

There is no more money...period, tax payers are not only tapped out, they are dwindling and leaving.  You can debate all day about lots of things, but there is no money.  We now see what is left after the money is gone, grown up people acting like butt heads, unions milking it for all it's worth until it all crashes, and people pointing at others people money.  You pretty much are looking at the truth of it all, and many people have pulled their pants down and shown what they really are.  Pretty sad...but it has to happen, and I say good.  Let it all crash and show them what state unions being attached to politics and other people's money is all about...you have a first row seat on the truth of it all right now.

I also found it interesting how teachers got fake doctor excuses to protest....they should be fired on the spot, only thing keeping that from happening is the union I guess.  Not all teachers did this, maybe not all teachers protested...but a lot of them sure showed what they are about and gave a few a bad name. 

Well there you have it..public sector vs the private sector...private sector runs out of money, public sector goes away.  You can't stop it, you can only prolong it long enough to look like Detroit if you drag it out long enough. 

[ironglow]

  Here are the figures for the costliest school districts..starting figures, not retirement figures.  It is more than a coincidence that the costliest teachers are all "blue" states...Liberal politicians are continually brewarding their lapdog unions with more and more money.  The problem with these politicians is that they aren't giving their lapdogs their own money..they are giving them the taxpayer's money !
  Anyway, here's the figures:
  http://www.employmentspot.com/employment-articles/highest-teacher-salary/

   Now, add to that a healthy sum paid each month toward a pension...no cost, top of the line health care plan..( they don't have to use Obamacare)....and they keep the top flight healthcare plan for free or very little..the rest of their lives.
   Not a bad deal for somebody who only works 35-40 weeks per year !
     Most of the people don't make what the teachers do, don't get near the medical or retirement plan teachers do.. b ut still THEY have to foot the bill for these gravy sippers !

[XD40SC]

Are you sick of high paid teachers? Teachers’ hefty salaries are driving up taxes, and they only work 9 or 10 months a year! It’s time we put things in perspective and pay them for what they do - baby sit! We can get that for less than minimum wage.

That’s right. Let’s give them $3.00 an hour and only the hours they worked; not any of that silly planning time, or any time they spend before or after school. That would be $19.50 a day (7:45 to 3:00 PM

with 45 min. off for lunch and plan — that equals 6 1/2 hours).

 

Each parent should pay $19.50 a day for these teachers to baby-sit their children.

Now how many do they teach in day…maybe 30? So that’s $19.50 x 30 = $585.00 a day. However, remember they only work 180 days a year!!! I am not going to pay them for any vacations.

 

LET’S SEE…. That’s $585 X 180= $105,300 peryear. (Hold on! My calculator needs new batteries).

 

What about those special education teachers and the ones with Master’s degrees? Well, we could pay them minimum wage ($7.75), and just to be fair, round it off to $8.00 an hour. That would be $8 X 6 1/2 hours X 30 children

X 180 days = $280,800 per year.

 

Wait a minute — there’s something wrong here! There sure is!

 

The average teacher’s salary (nation wide) is $50,000. $50,000/180 days = $277.77/per day/30 students=$9.25/6.5 hours = $1.42 per hour per student–a very inexpensive baby-sitter and they even EDUCATE your kids!)

 

WHAT A DEAL!!!!

[guzzijohn]

I guess I need to move to a different region of the country. Average teaching salaries:
KS- 42,696
NE- 43,943
OK- 41,653
MO- 42,750

And that great health care benefit that Ironglow mentioned, 
GuzziJohn

[ironglow]

  XCD40;
   So much whining..  I attended a one room country school for part of my primary education. Mrs Bennett (the teacher) had about 35 students covering 8 grades.  All the children learned the three "Rs" much better than many do today...

  My Grandaughter attends Christian school for about $200 per month, That is of course, about $1800 per school year.  She gets a proven, better education than the public school about half a mile down the road.  Each student at that public school costs us over $16, 000..   'Nuff said !

  Guzzi;
  Still, those are not bad for STARTING wages..especially if they have the virtually free health care and pension payments !

[guzzijohn]

Since when was $500 a month healthcare and 6% of my salary for a pension virtually free? The reason I am "whining" is the posts saying what a cushy job teaching is. If it is so great why are not more people on this board teachers? A teacher in a Christian school generally has smaller class sizes, little or no special education students and bad behaved students are kicked out unlike in a public school. It costs much less per student without those.
GuzziJohn

[Pat/Rick]

So whats the point teachers are trying to make? Base line? They're worth more? They want more? Lets see when I was welding I made 22 and change an hour. Before that I worked construction for a number of years. Even the average teacher salary matches or exceeds what my wages were and I HAD to work and sweat twelve months out of the year to keep my job.AND pay for most of my families health care, AND my own 401retirement. NOT rely on TENURE to carry me.
 Teachers think they're worth more why? Because they think they should get rich? Because they went to college? Seems that most learned nothing but how to whine at their chosen institute of liberal learning. Its a job, you're supposed to work for the pay you get. Don't like your job? Do something else besides go on a nation wide whine fest. Maybe learning how America works instead of socialist utopian ideas would have been money better spent. All you whiney teachers are bringing down the others in your profession who really care about teaching children. Maybe some teachers just need need to see their counselor,a time out or a bit of ritalyn themselves. (Disclaimer;  Not all teachers fall under this description).

[jimster]

Since when was $500 a month healthcare and 6% of my salary for a pension virtually free? The reason I am "whining" is the posts saying what a cushy job teaching is.

Teaching is not a cushy job, it's probably one of the high responsibility jobs, since teachers leave an impression on young minds, forever in some cases.  But, there is no more money regardless.  Teachers that have been on the job as long as I have been on mine (32 years) do much better than me, and that's fine with me.  Until there is no more money.  I lost 12K of pay through the hard times, pay a whole bunch for my health care too (20 percent more this year), that's just tough and the way it goes, but my money does not come from tax payers, I generate it myself.  When mine runs out, the teachers run out.  That's called simple math.  We can debate the "reasons" all day...but there still won't be any money.

So how about some of the good teachers actually teach where their money comes from, where ALL money comes from,  instead of teaching them how to protest, shut down schools, and whine like crazy if they don't get enough of "other people's money".  Now look at all the young kids out there that might grow up and protest to get more money, just like their teachers do.  Like somebody owes them or something.

Those teachers just gave a class on the behavior of people who are held up by tax money, government run, and unionized socialists, most of which are democrats (for some strange reason)....and are teaching our children to pretty much beg, scream, and do anything they can to get money that people just don't have anymore.  After this class maybe they can teach them how to spend our money too.   

It's all backwards if you ask me.....we have created several large groups of people in this country that either can't make it on their own, and  can't make it without lot's of other people's money, and don't know how to budget money.  Or worse, refuse to budget.
Only one way to fix that...it's called extreme.  Cut off the money and make em all struggle like hell to they figure out where money comes from and make hard choices. 

[ironglow]

Since when was $500 a month healthcare and 6% of my salary for a pension virtually free? The reason I am "whining" is the posts saying what a cushy job teaching is. If it is so great why are not more people on this board teachers? A teacher in a Christian school generally has smaller class sizes, little or no special education students and bad behaved students are kicked out unlike in a public school. It costs much less per student without those.
GuzziJohn

  Guzzi;
    Don't tell me...you learned to read in public school !    Read again, I said VIRTUALLY free.  If your teachers in your area are paying $500 a month for insurance, they are working in the wrong district..most pay zip, or very little. In my latter working years, I worked for a generous corporation compared to most..but I still had to pay 50% of my pension investment monthly.  Prior to that..I had no company sponsored pension plan.
     Christian schools do not have smaller classes, in fact they are often larger !  True, the discipline is better in Christian schools, but if union prodded teachers spent more time protesting for better discipline in schools instead of more pay & bennies, they may have better class conditions also.
   In Christian schools..the male teachers dress, act like, and set examples of decent maleness.  The women dress and conduct themselves like ladies, and present a good role model for girls.
   There is no "gender confusion" and children are instilled with proper manners, decent conduct and a solid sense of what is right and what is wrong in everyday conduct of one's life...thus the student of a Christian school has the extra benefit of learning morals, values, proper gender identity and  the dignity of patriotism: things the public school student most often is either misled about or misses out on entirely.

   However; all this discussion is a moot point; fact is there is NO MORE money..public employees have made too lucrative and too many, trips to the feeding trough !  A belt tightening is far overdue.