Author Topic: Democratic senators bail ship  (Read 62152 times)

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Offline ironglow

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #90 on: February 23, 2011, 12:10:56 AM »
Guzzijohn;
   First off, I must saysince I have no further info on your actual job than what you posted here, I cannot offer opinioins on it.
     That being said, I was led somehow, to believe that you were a farmer.  If so are you a part time farmer or a part time handicapped facilitator ?
  In any case, being as we are both residents of New York (the vampire state), I think we should be entirely candid with our fellow posters.
   New York is a very "blue" state...almost as blue as the taxpayers who live there ! ;) :D (note the double-entendre with "blue").  Blue states are of course, notorious with their "feel good" and "make a spot for constituents", jobs.  Thus, New York has sundry "programs" for the handicapped, often with nearly as many paid administrators as there are people being "served".  I know some of the people who 'work' at these institutions and am very surprised that they pull down the same inflated wages that our NY State teachers do.
  These programs overlap and are rife with the same concerns teachers have.. when is my next raise ?... how can I suck up more bennies ? and .. How can I arrange for all this 'make work' to sound noble ?
  This is the primary reason blue states are the deepest in debt..and why the more sensible, frugal states should not "bail them out" !

  Rush has said years ago, and the truth cannot be disputed.." Whatever you subsidize, you will get more of".
  Unfortunately, most of our elected politicians are not that smart...

  BLUE STATES;
     Cater to the lazy, the indigent, the habitual welfare families, the parasitic 'gubmint worker', the shiftless, human breeding cows who, along with welfare, thrive on WIC and food stamps, and also cater to the useless slugs who breed these cows, and spend the rest of their lives either in jail or in some kind of rehab...
              .....So more and more, that's what the blue states are getting as residents.

  RED STATES;
   Cater to working, decent families... hard working, private entrepreneurs ... independent, inventive people...venture capitalists...those with Judeo-Christian values ... and productive corporations...
                    ...So more and more, that's what the red states are getting  as residents ...

  Just makes common sense..

  Now, the newly elected governor and representatives of the people of Wisconsin are trying to correct some of this stupidity..and they catch a ration of crap for it !  We should not be surprised..the left likes to keep citizens DEPENDENT upon the left...and the left's "useful idiots" are running riot in the streets for them.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline XD40SC

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #91 on: February 23, 2011, 12:51:30 AM »
my final thoughts on Wizconsum - CHEEZE

Offline guzzijohn

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #92 on: February 23, 2011, 02:41:34 AM »
I work full time at the occupation I described. I own 560 acres of farm land but I rent part of it and share crop the rest. I do not actively farm myself although I have quite a bit of upkeep work, especially around my watershed and we garden every year.
What I am trying to say is that there actually are some tax funded programs that do produce more than they take in and my program is one of those. There are also many, no most,  people in education that just want to teach has effectively as possible and do what is best for the kids. At the same time teachers work hard, most have racked up education debt to be paid off and just want fair compensation for what they do. Could education be improved, of course. Could it effectively be taught with less money, maybe. A good first step would be to repeal "No Child Left Behind" so a teacher can teach their content, not teach to the testing that has little if any relevancy.
Maybe some states do or have offered great benefits to teachers but not here in the midwest. What I say I pay for health insurance and toward retirement is very typical in the midwest. Once I retire I will not get one penny toward health care. My pension will be helpful but will only be about a forth to a third of what I get paid now. I do not have a problem with that except I would like to see less health care cost. What I get compensated is about what I expected when I went into the field. I am just defending the profession a bit, especially to those that imply that teaching is a cushy over paid job. As I pointed out earlier my first wife made twice what I do with better benefits working in industry. That is one reason it is so difficult to find computer, science and math teachers because they will always be compensated better in industry. 
GuzziJohn

Offline carbineman

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #93 on: February 23, 2011, 03:46:24 AM »
Carbine man;
  I agree with most everything you have said, but consider this; the unrest in the mid east is only CALLED a movement towards democracy.  Remember, liberals make a life study of parsing words and/or ideas.
   Unfortunately, many of us when faced with the word "democracy", equate it with "freedom".  Such an assumption can be dangerous, especially when dealing with the radical left.  Their idea of freedom is..freedom for the 'elites' which they each consider themselves, and freedom for the "masses" as long as they do what the elites tell them to do. Plus of course, real democracy is one of the worst forms of government !
  Many do not yet know that our radical left, represented by international labor unions (AFL-CIO, SIEU etc) are behind the rioting in both the world's MIDEAST and America's MIDWEST !  They seem to think this is the time to make their long planned for "grab for power"..
  http://www.redstate.com/laborunionreport/2011/01/30/the-american-lefts-role-in-leading-mid-east-regime-change/

    It is recently reported that the pres has not even consulted with much of his cabinet for the two years he has held office, but has consulted regularly with Trumba..boss of AFL-CIO and Stern, boss of SIEU !  They both have boasted of regular visits with the messiah/king.
    This flurry of unrest is simply a grab for power by the socialists, who may find they "have a tiger by the tail" much to their,  and more importantly..OUR regret !

ironglow, I agree with you. Well stated!

Offline carbineman

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #94 on: February 23, 2011, 04:10:48 AM »
TM7, I completely disagree with your entire post. Personally I don't give two hoots and a holler for the state employee unions. We couldn't be further apart on this subject.

Your assertion that there is plenty of money in Wisconsin that needs to be confiscated and then given as some kind of reward for being a certain class of citizen ie, teacher/government worker is absurd.

If I stated that money should be extracted from the teachers and given to me because I belong to the NRA, Lions Club, Moose Lodge, AARP, DNC, GOP, or Mickey Mouse Club, would be equally absurd.

Where you state that Wisconsinites should hold onto their wallets is amusing. What makes you think their is much if any to hold onto? Remember my school taxes rose 24% last year and my total taxes 19% Money talks and mine said "good-bye."

Sadly the teachers and non union taxpayers are the pawns in this game and the clout of the unions and the union bosses is what is under attack here. They have held me as a hostage for too long. If you are a union member I don't think this is going to end well for you considering the tactics you have employed have not endeared most to your cause. Give it up TM7 you have failed to convince anyone here that your take on this matter is relavent in todays real world. Scott Walker is only the face of what others have thought for a long time. I'm glad it is your cause taking it in the shorts this time rather than my cause. So knock yourself out going for your dream, but remember, you pay for your dream and I'll pay for mine.

Offline billy_56081

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #95 on: February 23, 2011, 05:09:15 AM »
What you all fail to see is that government employees do not in reality pay into the tax pool. They only return part of the tax dollars that were confiscated from producers.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline lakota

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #96 on: February 23, 2011, 05:32:38 AM »
You Wisconsin tax payers need to quit your whining and just consent to pay higher taxes to support these public employee union members and their retirement accounts and healthcare and salaries. After all YOU OWE THEM!

If you have to cancel a vacation,  put off buying a car, go broke,  lose your home, not send your child to college in order to pay these taxes to support them THEN SO BE IT! YOU OWE THEM! THE MONEY YOU WORK YOUR TAIL OFF TO  MAKE DOESNT BELONG TO YOU IT BELONGS TO THEM!!!!!!!!
Hi NSA! Can you see how many fingers I am holding up?

Offline Cabin4

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #97 on: February 23, 2011, 05:38:15 AM »
Those greedy Wisconsin tax payers. They actually think the money they make is thier own. How stupid, its the governments!!
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Offline carbineman

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #98 on: February 23, 2011, 06:31:47 AM »
TM7, I completely disagree with your entire post. Personally I don't give two hoots and a holler for the state employee unions. We couldn't be further apart on this subject.for right now..it looks that way.

Your assertion that there is plenty of money in Wisconsin that needs to be confiscated and then given as some kind of reward for being a certain class of citizen ie, teacher/government worker is absurd.Your wording..I said Walker giving tax cuts when the budget is in a tizzy is irrational and extreme and blaming all of Wisconsin's problems on the middle class and labor..actually nonsensical. There is plenty of wealth consolidated in Wisconsin and they get to share in solving Wis problems; not just the middle class and labor, while they escape Walker's crusade.  Time for them to chip alittle more into the pot.....its not about ripping them off at all, which is just polemics and extreme rhetoric...nice sound bites but little more. Stop feeling sorry for yourself Feeling sorry for my self is a trick I learned from the left. I'm portraying myself as the unfortunate taxpayer so the media understands my plight and takes to the press and airwaves telling everyone how the government employee unions are screwing me.just because one group of middle class is doing better than you while exempting TPTB elite... ::)

If I stated that money should be extracted from the teachers and given to me because I belong to the NRA, Lions Club, Moose Lodge, AARP, DNC, GOP, or Mickey Mouse Club, would be equally absurd.They already said  they are going to contribute more and take less....you want to cut their heads off or something.?Completely irrational on your part. Like I said back off my pocketbook and I'll back off, til then I'll lobby against you in any way I can.

Where you state that Wisconsinites should hold onto their wallets is amusing. What makes you think their is much if any to hold onto? Remember my school taxes rose 24% last year and my total taxes 19% Money talks and mine said "good-bye."Of course your taxes rose because you are targeted middle class. Look at real estate tax tables, look at where the tax cuts go the mosts....You should be marching with these protestors if you knew what side your bread is buttered on.23rd on my list after dying of thirst. I was marching to protect my family and my pocketbook same as them, and you darn right I feel targeted, same as you now are starting to feel. Not a very good feeling is it?

Sadly the teachers and non union taxpayers are the pawns in this game and the clout of the unions and the union bosses is what is under attack here. They have held me as a hostage for too long. If you are a union member I don't think this is going to end well for you considering the tactics you have employed have not endeared most to your cause. Give it up TM7 you have failed to convince anyone here that your take on this matter is relavent in todays real world. Scott Walker is only the face of what others have thought for a long time. I'm glad it is your cause taking it in the shorts this time rather than my cause. So knock yourself out going for your dream, but remember, you pay for your dream and I'll pay for mine. Hold on to your wallet, when privatization hits costs alwaysthe words always and never seem to crop up in your text without a lot of proof being posted go up with no-bid contracts, cost over runs, corruption, etc. and no oversight...BOL.....and good luck running cover for the Oligarchy that caused your problems in the first place..!Spoken like a true union backer feeding at the government trough. Your rhetoric seems to improve with each post. Keep it up the entertainment value is enlightning for all that read this thread[

TM7
 


Offline ironglow

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #99 on: February 23, 2011, 07:16:54 AM »
Guzzijohn;
  Somewhere I got the idea that you too lived in NY state. Evidently I was wrong..my bad, sorry.
  If you were truly greedy, perhaps you should move here..for as long as the gravy train can keep chugging on..but that may slow remarkably, very soon..the "vampire state" is running out of money too !
  A few things which has been caused taxpayers here to realize that their public employees are no longer "public servants" but rather masters of the taxpayers are as follows;

 1) Not only are the teachers & other public employees given cushy retirements, but if their retirement investments fail..the public simply has to dig deeper and pay more taxes to make up the shortfall.  Nobody does that for the rest of us  !

 2)  State troopers retire here with about $80,000..

 3)  Some states have no personal income taxes, but  NY State has high income taxes.  Our high state income taxes pay for police, schools, teachers etc.   Our public service employees don't pay state income tax, not even on their sumptious retirement.  Of course, many of them spend their money in southern states and vacation places half the year.  My younger brother and his wife spend much of their retirement in places such as France, Tuscany, Netherlands and Spain.

 4)  Nationally, unions have traditionally been giving great sums of their member's dues money to the Democrat political machine.  Meanwhile many of these same unions have now gone to the Obama administration, looking to get a bailout from them to make up for the member's dues money they DIDN'T put into the retirement coffers.  Obama has been willing to do it...take our tax money and put it into the union's retirements..so they can continue contributing to the Democrat machine.
  A cozy arrangement..... but remember, every working person is paying taxes and some don't have any retirement plan or pension..they can't afford it !

 5) The national & international unions have been right behind the Obamacare plan for everybody..contributing funds to Obama and endorsing this faulty scheme.  They get it passed...and just as quickly get a waiver for the unions..so they don't have to participate in the plan they helped to push on the rest of us.  I guess they really do figure that the "masses" are stupid !


   Well, the the independent voters aren't stupid...in fact they are the ones which count most; and now that the crooked tactics of the public service unions and the Obamanites has been laid bare...the independents will continue to make a huge difference.

BTW:  Inquiring minds want to know...  why did the Muslims also get a waiver from the Obamacare plan ?
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline XD40SC

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #100 on: February 23, 2011, 09:49:20 AM »
I grew up in the late 60's and early 70's. "The Hippie generation." Some of you conservative right wingers remind me of the liberal Hippies of that time.Blaming everything on "THE MAN." Funny how some things don't change over time.

Offline beerbelly

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #101 on: February 23, 2011, 10:06:02 AM »
Funny how some things don't change over time.

Yep a hippy with a government education that knows what we need and intends to force us to do what you think we need!

Offline gypsyman

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #102 on: February 23, 2011, 10:06:54 AM »
To many days off with pay, to good of a retirement package,health benifits way beyond what the job should pay. And a lowering tax base. There out of money, kinda like, what part of infringed, don't you understand. Ya can't get blood out of a turnip. I got an idea, lets take the money that the Democrat senators should have got for doing their job, and give it to the teachers. Wonder how they'ld vote if that possibility exsisted. gypsyman
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Offline scootrd

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #103 on: February 23, 2011, 11:07:34 AM »
To many days off with pay, to good of a retirement package,health benifits way beyond what the job should pay. And a lowering tax base. There out of money, kinda like, what part of infringed, don't you understand. Ya can't get blood out of a turnip. I got an idea, lets take the money that the Democrat senators should have got for doing their job, and give it to the teachers. Wonder how they'ld vote if that possibility exsisted. gypsyman

Same hold true for the same elected officials in Office .. Did you know Senators and House of Reps make more money in retirement than they do on the Job. They have voted for their own increases year after year even during times of recession when they have told John Q public "now is the time to tighten your belt" , Perhaps they should look at themselves as well.
Just an additional thought!!!
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Offline jimster

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #104 on: February 23, 2011, 11:43:33 AM »
Quote
I grew up in the late 60's and early 70's. "The Hippie generation." Some of you conservative right wingers remind me of the liberal Hippies of that time.Blaming everything on "THE MAN." Funny how some things don't change over time.

Well I'm one of those conservative right wingers, but I don't blame "the man"...maybe cause I was never a hippy, who knows. I blame the American people, they voted for what they got over many years, a large portion of the population lost some moral fiber, became greedy, some lazy, some feel the government owes them somehow, and unions turned into nothing more than corrupt organizations no better than Capone.

So there seems to be a problem between the private sector and public union thing...that goes a bit deeper than someone saying we don't like teachers or police or fireman...none of that is true at all.  Here is an example of what the private sector sees going on:

STIM package...rammed through congress...all the money goes to unions.  Fed money coming into the state, all the money going to unions, I mean ALL of it, nobody in the private sector gets squat...all unions.  Unions send lots of money to what political party to elect them over and over? (Just say it, you know)  Now I don't know who on here can look at this money trail and this money laundering deal with private sector taxes that's been going on and say that this is fair for the private sector, but if anyone would like to challenge what I just said and say it didn't happen...go right ahead. Or if anyone wants to say that's fair...step up and say it.  None of that is right.  Our state got GOBS of tax money sent here and it ALL went to the unions...private sector had to pack up and leave.  We blew every cent of it, on NOTHING but keeping union employees working for one more year, union road crews sticking ugly steel poles in the middle of the highway, and we even made up signs signs telling everyone how we got fed money...a few million wasted there.  NO BUDGETING,  just spending it as fast as we could through the unions. Worry about next year next year.  That is the mentallity of those who get private sector money.

So the states get sick of this corruption, and elect someone else, maybe no better, but at least different and some governors who vow to slow this down some and stop it.  Now what do we see from the "far left winger democrats" (trying to use XD40SC talk here)...who always cry DEMOCRACY...they split and won't vote, cause DEMOCRACY is not going to go their way, they really don't want that after all.  Challenge it in court, whatver they have to do to stay in power even though the vast majority wants them out.  Well I guess they showed us what they really believe eh?

There is the veiw from a right wing conservative....who sits back and watches the left wing act like communists, steel our money, so they can stay in power and spend without any budget at all.   

Say it ain't so. And I never was a hippy, and I never once blamed "the man"...the man is an inexperienced puppet that knows no better than those who elected him.  Now the country is trying to fight back though elections as best they can and reel it in.  Listen to the left wing union people talk about the constitution now would ya.  No ya can't have a gun in our city, won't protect the borders, but we are looking into the constituion which is our pride and joy, about getting more money from the private sector given to unions.... :o  In the mean time, instead of teaching our kids where money comes from and how to budget, we teach them how to protest to get more of that...from other people.  :-[

Makes me sick to watch it all all these years. And then have someone act like I don't like cops or teachers because nobody can budget and the unions became corrupt.  If anyone hurt the cops, teachers, and firefighters...the unions and the left wingers did that, all by themselves, over time by out spending themselves.  Easy to do when it's not your money to play with I guess.

Offline carbineman

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #105 on: February 23, 2011, 12:16:52 PM »
PROVIDENCE RI— The school district plans to send out dismissal notices to every one of its 1,926 teachers, an unprecedented move that has union leaders up in arms.

In a letter sent to all teachers Tuesday, Supt. Tom Brady wrote that the Providence School Board on Thursday will vote on a resolution to dismiss every teacher, effective the last day of school.

In an e-mail sent to all teachers and School Department staff, Brady said, “We are forced to take this precautionary action by the March 1 deadline given the dire budget outline for the 2011-2012 school year in which we are projecting a near $40 million deficit for the district,” Brady wrote. “Since the full extent of the potential cuts to the school budget have yet to be determined, issuing a dismissal letter to all teachers was necessary to give the mayor, the School Board and the district maximum flexibility to consider every cost savings option, including reductions in staff.” State law requires that teachers be notified about potential changes to their employment status by March 1.

“To be clear about what this means,” Brady wrote, “this action gives the School Board the right to dismiss teachers as necessary, but not all teachers will actually be dismissed at the end of the school year.”

“This is beyond insane,” Providence Teachers Union President Steve Smith said Tuesday night. “Let’s create the most chaos and the highest level of anxiety in a district where teachers are already under unbelievable stress. Now I know how the United States State Department felt on Dec. 7 , 1941.” That was the day the Japanese government bombed Pearl Harbor. We know what happened that day. What an insult to the people that lost their lives, typical though

Smith, who has forged a groundbreaking collaboration with Brady that has received national recognition, said he believes this move comes directly from Mayor Angel Taveras, not the School Department. In a conversation with Taveras earlier Tuesday, Smith said the mayor also hinted at school closings but didn’t elaborate.

Taveras, in a statement issued Tuesday night, said the uncertainty around the city’s finances, combined with the March 1 deadline, led to this decision. Because it is too early to be certain of all possible changes to the school budget, Taveras said, issuing dismissal notices to all teachers “provides maximum flexibility” going forward.

“As a Providence public school graduate, I understand how great teachers can change lives,” he wrote. “I am sensitive to the uncertainty and anxiety that many teachers felt when they received this notice. My administration will do all it can to support our committed, hardworking teachers during this difficult time.”

Providence is facing a daunting budget crisis. The city had a $57-million deficit last year and expects a higher figure for the year ending June 30. In addition, the city, under then-Mayor David N. Cicilline, nearly depleted its reserves to cover day-to-day expenses. Taveras is currently awaiting completion of a report by an independent panel, which he commissioned to get a better handle on the city’s financial situation.

Meanwhile, Smith said he was caught completely off-guard by the planned dismissals, adding that Brady didn’t inform him of the decision until 5:30 p.m. Tuesday although he had heard rumors over the weekend.

He said it makes no sense to send out dismissal notices to every teacher because the district has a legal obligation to educate all of its students, regardless of budget considerations. “You have so many students,” he said. “You need so many teachers. You have a student-teacher ratio of 26 to 1. Do the math.”

Last year, only about 100 teachers received layoff notices, but in years past, as many as 500 have.

Smith said the dismissals couldn’t come at a worse time. The union is getting close to resolving a lawsuit over seniority-based hiring. The teachers’ contract expires June 30. And both Smith and Brady have staked their careers on a first-ever partnership in which both sides have agreed to make deep reforms in four of the district’s lowest-performing schools.

“We’re at the table with our best ideas,” Smith said. “To take this approach is unconscionable.”

http://www.projo.com/news/content/pr...7.1a1cc6d.html


Offline XD40SC

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #106 on: February 23, 2011, 12:27:18 PM »
I would like some serious answers to the following questions. Let me preface them by adding; Teachers get a 4 year college degree. They spend $40,000 plus for their education and earn nothing while attending college. So let's say they could be making $25,000 a year if they were working for those 4 years while they were in college. That totals up to a cost of about $140,000.
After that investment-1. How much do you think a starting teacher should make a year earn a year?   2. What about a teacher with 20 years experience? 3. What about a teacher with a Masters degree?

Offline billy_56081

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #107 on: February 23, 2011, 12:32:25 PM »
Oh good golly do you mean I shoulda got paid to go to college? Oh wait I did, but get this, I EARNED it.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline scootrd

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #108 on: February 23, 2011, 12:33:37 PM »
absolute Power corrupts absolutely , Unions are only as good as their leaders .

But in our haste lets not forget

Unions gave us  - 

A 40 hour work week , Equal pay, sick leave , vacation time, Paid public holidays , a livable wage, Compensation for injury on the Job, grievance processes , Periodic wage increases,  Oversight to ensure employers observe minimum wages and working conditions are observed,  Protective clothing and equipment provided by the employer,  Occupational health and safety laws are followed.
 

I would be the first to admit unions can be as bad as they are good , but if it was not for the early fights of the UMWA We would have lost a lot more Coal miners lives over the years, and without the UMWA our miners would not be receiving a livable wage , health benefits etc.. (Just one example).

So we can all union bash if we want , but I do believe there needs to be balance and someone to represent organized Labor, what the parameters of the representation should be are open for debate. 
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Offline jimster

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #109 on: February 23, 2011, 12:37:44 PM »
Quote
the district has a legal obligation to educate all of its students, regardless of budget considerations. “You have so many students,” he said. “You need so many teachers.

Well there you have it...A union president saying it out right...that's what I'm talkin about. 

Get ready for another Detriot....no budget considerations gave Michigan a real fine city with nobody living in 1/3 of it, and live at your own risk in the other 2/3.  They are trying to give cops a super deal if they live in the city...nope, they ain't buyin it, no thanks, we'll drive 30 miles to work. Ain't livin there. 

"Regarldless of budget considerations"....if that don't beat all...what a surprise.  Good thing the unions paid lawmakers to put things into law over the years, they were looking ahead for sure...make it real legal like.  New law coming, Article XX section 3.5,  Unions do not have to worry about budget considerations.  Print more if ya have to.   ;)

Ya..lots of people know what the teachers feel when money runs out, our private company lost 6000 employees over the past several years, 400 more out the door coming this spring.  Teachers won't be alone.  About all I could say to them is their votes have consequences, try voting for people like Dave Ramsey for a few years, or someone who cares about budgets. 

Offline bigMikeA

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #110 on: February 23, 2011, 01:27:39 PM »
Guzzijohn;
  Somewhere I got the idea that you too lived in NY state. Evidently I was wrong..my bad, sorry.
  If you were truly greedy, perhaps you should move here..for as long as the gravy train can keep chugging on..but that may slow remarkably, very soon..the "vampire state" is running out of money too !
  A few things which has been caused taxpayers here to realize that their public employees are no longer "public servants" but rather masters of the taxpayers are as follows;

 1) Not only are the teachers & other public employees given cushy retirements, but if their retirement investments fail..the public simply has to dig deeper and pay more taxes to make up the shortfall.  Nobody does that for the rest of us  !

 2)  State troopers retire here with about $80,000..

 3)  Some states have no personal income taxes, but  NY State has high income taxes.  Our high state income taxes pay for police, schools, teachers etc.   Our public service employees don't pay state income tax, not even on their sumptious retirement.  Of course, many of them spend their money in southern states and vacation places half the year.  My younger brother and his wife spend much of their retirement in places such as France, Tuscany, Netherlands and Spain.

 4)  Nationally, unions have traditionally been giving great sums of their member's dues money to the Democrat political machine.  Meanwhile many of these same unions have now gone to the Obama administration, looking to get a bailout from them to make up for the member's dues money they DIDN'T put into the retirement coffers.  Obama has been willing to do it...take our tax money and put it into the union's retirements..so they can continue contributing to the Democrat machine.
  A cozy arrangement..... but remember, every working person is paying taxes and some don't have any retirement plan or pension..they can't afford it !

 5) The national & international unions have been right behind the Obamacare plan for everybody..contributing funds to Obama and endorsing this faulty scheme.  They get it passed...and just as quickly get a waiver for the unions..so they don't have to participate in the plan they helped to push on the rest of us.  I guess they really do figure that the "masses" are stupid !


   Well, the the independent voters aren't stupid...in fact they are the ones which count most; and now that the crooked tactics of the public service unions and the Obamanites has been laid bare...the independents will continue to make a huge difference.

BTW:  Inquiring minds want to know...  why did the Muslims also get a waiver from the Obamacare plan ?

ironglow... absolutely awesome post(s).  thank you.

did you see my reply about the LCP?  get one.  no regrets.  :)

Offline bigMikeA

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #111 on: February 23, 2011, 01:40:57 PM »
I would like some serious answers to the following questions. Let me preface them by adding; Teachers get a 4 year college degree. They spend $40,000 plus for their education and earn nothing while attending college. So let's say they could be making $25,000 a year if they were working for those 4 years while they were in college. That totals up to a cost of about $140,000.
After that investment-1. How much do you think a starting teacher should make a year earn a year?   2. What about a teacher with 20 years experience? 3. What about a teacher with a Masters degree?

 ::) :-\ ::) ??? ::) ???   my serious answer is every single public school teacher I know or know of or have seen recently on the interweb  is so full of themselves and their importance to society and hung up on their investment in education and expecting a free ride from here on out on MY dime just because they have made some sort mysterious sacfrifice (as you have described above) is total BS!!!!   ::) ;) 8)

They, somewhere along the line, made a conscious choice to pursue a career (gravytrain??) in teaching.  Ain't workin' out...  too bad.  welcome to the real world.

Find Somethin Else To Do!!  oh,  difficult!!  no other opportunities!

Welcome to everybody's else's world TEACHERS!!   :o ;D ;)

Offline ironglow

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #112 on: February 23, 2011, 02:26:09 PM »
  Wow ! Teachers WHINE so much !

  I haven't heard so much whining since Albert Scissorhands came down with jock itch !!

  I used to work with electronic engineers regularly. These engineers didn't get quite as good wages as teachers in my state get and certainly didn't get an equivalent "golden parachute" upon retiring .  they didn't get a"guaranteed job" after a short 3 years...they had to prove their worth every day.
   
   Still, the engineers weren't whining, like the teachers.  If they whined as much as teachers do, we would have told them the same thing Gov Christie tells the teachers..  "If teaching doesn't pay you enough...get another job"..
     
   It's a free country...at least for a while yet.
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline XD40SC

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #113 on: February 23, 2011, 02:28:45 PM »
With all the opinions here, surely someone has amounts they can plug into my questions above.

Offline bigMikeA

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #114 on: February 23, 2011, 02:34:41 PM »
SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!!!!


YEP......!!!  SHOW US THE MONEY!    nothing else matters.  Dude...... seriously.  you might want to rethink your posts here.    ;) ;) ::)

Offline bigMikeA

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #115 on: February 23, 2011, 02:52:55 PM »
With all the opinions here, surely someone has amounts they can plug into my questions above.

Please get a clue!

THERE IS NO MONEY!!!!

Offline XD40SC

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #116 on: February 23, 2011, 03:36:51 PM »
With all the opinions here, surely someone has amounts they can plug into my questions above.

Please get a clue!
THERE IS NO MONEY!!!!
You must have a problem with reading comprehension. I asked a fair question as to what individuals thought a fair salary would be .. dude - sounds like you were one of the children left behind.

Offline bigMikeA

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #117 on: February 23, 2011, 04:02:37 PM »
nope.  quite proud of my reading comprehension.   :)  your fair question is so, so , so,....
misguided and ...??  unreal?.   8)  There is no money for these people to negotiate for!

Offline Pat/Rick

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #118 on: February 23, 2011, 07:11:56 PM »
"Waiting for Superman" a documentary available at wally world. It comes with a 25$ voucher to give to your school of choice. You get paid back more or less. i posted my views on it over at the pot belly. I strongly suggest watching it, then make up your own mind about the education system.I learned quite a bit and confirmed some of my thoughts.

Offline XD40SC

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #119 on: February 23, 2011, 11:03:52 PM »
nope.  quite proud of my reading comprehension.   :)  your fair question is so, so , so,....
misguided and ...??  unreal?.   8)  There is no money for these people to negotiate for!
I'm not talking about Wisconsin. I'm talking about salaries for teachers in general .-.What do you think would be a fair salary for them?????If you think a starting for teachers is 20 grand than say so, if you think it should be 40 grand than say so - I'm asking for opinions- WHAT IS SO SO SO SO SO MISGUIDED ABOUT THAT. If asking for your opinion is unreal- than maybe you need to not be so focused on something ;that it prevents you from seeing what is really being asked.