Author Topic: Democratic senators bail ship (Read 62160 times)

scootrd · « **Reply #240 on:** February 27, 2011, 01:51:48 PM »

There are those who enjoy the exchange of ideas , and trying to solve complex issues with reasonable solutions ---- Then there are those that spew the same partisan rhetoric over and over and over and over again and contribute nothing to the discussions that are either productive nor intelligent in nature.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #241 on:** February 27, 2011, 01:56:45 PM »

Its supply side economics. Cut taxes on those that make the most (they also pay the most in tax to begin with) it the hopes many of them will reinvest in business in some form or another. Maybe they buy a second home, maybe they buy another car, maybe they buy a camper, those industries then grow & hire....you get the point. Most of your small businesses file under the personal income side as well, so the benefits of business to business transactions should improve. One thing we know for sure, without any question, government cannot create real jobs. It can only tax and spend what it takes away from business to begin with. So there really are only 2 options. 1. tax and spend government or 2:low tax, low spend government with the private sector left to its own devices. I say, leave it in the private sector. At least let the People decide how the bulk of the money should be spent. Not a bunch of politicians. On collective barganing. I have no issue with it in the private sector. I do have an issue with it in the public sector. The People should never have that level of leverage removed from thier control. Pay our state workers a salary that is competitive with the private sector and offer them good benefits that are also competitive.

XD40SC · « **Reply #242 on:** February 27, 2011, 02:11:58 PM »

Quote from: scootrd on February 27, 2011, 01:51:48 PM

There are those who enjoy the exchange of ideas , and trying to solve complex issues with reasonable solutions ---- Then there are those that spew the same partisan rhetoric over and over and over and over again and contribute nothing to the discussions that are either productive nor intelligent in nature.

+1 on that

bigMikeA · « **Reply #243 on:** February 27, 2011, 02:23:03 PM »

Quote from: scootrd on February 27, 2011, 01:51:48 PM

There are those who enjoy the exchange of ideas , and trying to solve complex issues with reasonable solutions ---- Then there are those that spew the same partisan rhetoric over and over and over and over again and contribute nothing to the discussions that are either productive nor intelligent in nature.

I invite you sir to reread your post #255, then reread the above and give it all some serious thought.

I mean, come'on....

It looks to me like you are so wrapped up in your cause that you have lost track of what you are saying.

ironglow · « **Reply #244 on:** February 27, 2011, 02:24:35 PM »

Taxing corporations is pure silliness..any increase in production costs must be passed on to the consumer; therefore it is the consumer who pays the tax. In fact, if one wants to help an ailing economy, reducing taxes is the way to go, since it stimulates the economy and provides honest jobs.. which produce a real product.
Undoubtedly, the very best way to save an ailing economy is to REDUCE GOVERNMENT ! While private sector jobs take in money, they produce a product which is worth even more money..government on the other hand, takes in great sums of money and produces no salable product. All government can do is take from the producers and spend what they take...and they are incredibly inefficient at that
Drtastically reduce government and dump half or two thirds of the parasites..no more problem..

BTW:
I think we have all seen the clenched fist thing for decades and it usually means the same thing wherever it is used...hate, division, arrogance..and a distain for others.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #245 on:** February 27, 2011, 02:29:11 PM »

I guess saying the truth of the matter over and over is stating a fact. No need to change when what is said is the truth. Now if you ask a cop a thief's story will change over and over.

scootrd · « **Reply #246 on:** February 27, 2011, 06:29:57 PM »

Quote from: bigMikeA on February 27, 2011, 02:23:03 PM

Quote from: scootrd on February 27, 2011, 01:51:48 PM
There are those who enjoy the exchange of ideas , and trying to solve complex issues with reasonable solutions ---- Then there are those that spew the same partisan rhetoric over and over and over and over again and contribute nothing to the discussions that are either productive nor intelligent in nature.
I invite you sir to reread your post #255, then reread the above and give it all some serious thought.
I mean, come'on....
It looks to me like you are so wrapped up in your cause that you have lost track of what you are saying.

I disagree, There is nothing wrong with my post 255... I stated my position , and have not said anything derogatory towards any other contributor except I think some are smoking way too much wacky stuff. You have every right to disagree or debate or offer an alternative viewpoint. and I certainly don't go on parasite ti raids every other post.

scootrd · « **Reply #247 on:** February 27, 2011, 06:44:25 PM »

Quote from: ironglow on February 27, 2011, 02:24:35 PM

Drtastically reduce government and dump half or two thirds of the parasites..no more problem..

Yes this will certainly help our unemployment numbers, and home foreclosures !!! Great plan ...

scootrd · « **Reply #248 on:** February 27, 2011, 06:47:07 PM »

Quote from: billy_56081 on February 27, 2011, 02:29:11 PM

I guess saying the truth of the matter over and over is stating a fact. No need to change when what is said is the truth. Now if you ask a cop a thief's story will change over and over.

Interesting you mention the word Cop. It appears the police are also now standing with the people of Wisconsin against Walkers proposal to eliminate collective bargaining. By the way the latest polls are now showing

54-41% against Walker.

and
56-32% against Walker

ironglow · « **Reply #249 on:** February 28, 2011, 01:25:37 AM »

Quote from: scootrd on February 27, 2011, 06:44:25 PM

Quote from: ironglow on February 27, 2011, 02:24:35 PM
Drtastically reduce government and dump half or two thirds of the parasites..no more problem..

Yes this will certainly help our unemployment numbers, and home foreclosures !!! Great plan ...

Scoot;
Our current fiscal problems multiplied exponentially since the 1990. The very root of the problem was the housing bubble.
the housing bubble was caused by the government, specifically govt programs such as Fannie & Freddie. Allowing people to buy a house with practically 0% down is a bad mistake. People who cannot control their spending to where they save up 20% should not be considered a good credit risk. if a person gets into a house without any real equity, they will usually not take their obligation as seriously as they should, since they barely have a dime invested in it ? No risk, no worry !

Govt is way too spendy.. there is no way anyone should collect a tax "rebate" if they never put any "bate" in... in the first place !

billy_56081 · « **Reply #250 on:** February 28, 2011, 01:49:21 AM »

Scoot, whered ya get your poll? http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/peter-roff/2011/02/25/poll-wisconsin-gov-scott-walker-winning-labor-budget-fight

Here's an even better one. http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/02/mysterious-conservative-poll-of-walkers-budget-plan-hits-wisconsin.php

Of course yours were taken by the parasitic unions. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/22/wiscon-polls-oppose-walker_n_826359.html

Again, theives will lie and twist facts to support their theft.

gypsyman · « **Reply #251 on:** February 28, 2011, 02:12:42 AM »

Raising property tax's, sales tax's, state tax's,corporate tax's, to cover over govt. spending, is not the way to cure the problem. That would be like giving more drugs to an addict, in the hope that eventually they'll quit. Sorry, the only thing that would do, is kill the patient. gypsyman

scootrd · « **Reply #252 on:** February 28, 2011, 02:49:50 AM »

Quote from: ironglow on February 28, 2011, 01:25:37 AM

Quote from: scootrd on February 27, 2011, 06:44:25 PM
Quote from: ironglow on February 27, 2011, 02:24:35 PM
Drtastically reduce government and dump half or two thirds of the parasites..no more problem..

Yes this will certainly help our unemployment numbers, and home foreclosures !!! Great plan ...

Scoot;
Our current fiscal problems multiplied exponentially since the 1990. The very root of the problem was the housing bubble.
the housing bubble was caused by the government, specifically govt programs such as Fannie & Freddie. Allowing people to buy a house with practically 0% down is a bad mistake. People who cannot control their spending to where they save up 20% should not be considered a good credit risk. if a person gets into a house without any real equity, they will usually not take their obligation as seriously as they should, since they barely have a dime invested in it ? No risk, no worry !

Govt is way too spendy.. there is no way anyone should collect a tax "rebate" if they never put any "bate" in... in the first place !

Adding thousands more to the unemployment and foreclosure ranks s not a step in the right direction. It;s a step backwards.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #253 on:** February 28, 2011, 02:57:34 AM »

Scoot what is the difference if they are paid by stolen tax dollars whether working or on unemployment? Either way they are not adding to the economy. At least on unemployment they would have to search for a job and many of those would be private sector employment where they would actually pay into the tax rolls.

magooch · « **Reply #254 on:** February 28, 2011, 03:13:44 AM »

As I understand it, Walker is trying to get consessions from the unions in order to prevent having to lay off, or eliminate a lot of state employees.

It is foolishness to believe that government workers can continue to have pay and benefits that far exceed what the average private sector employees receive. Any system that allows employees (through their union) to finance the selection of their boss is bound for failure. It has already begun in Wisconsin; the unions failed to win the election and now it's time to pay the price.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #255 on:** February 28, 2011, 04:45:35 AM »

Quote from: TM7 on February 28, 2011, 01:11:47 AM

Quote from: Cabin4 on February 27, 2011, 01:06:33 PM
A budget deficit cannot be created by a reduction of income. It can only be created by an inability to reduce spending. You can't fire the gov, he was elected by the People.

I still have not heard a proposal on how to fix the budget.
.
Post#256...last paragraph.

..TM7

First of all the $117million, is a tax cut, not a spending increase. Second, Wisconsin has a $2.7BILLION to $3.1BILLION annual budget deficit. Cut the workers pay, benefits or lay them off. That addresses spending and help reduce the budget deficit. Reduce spending in other areas. That will help fix the problem. Raising pay for state workers and or hiring more state workers only adds to the spending and further harms the horrific budget deficit. Cut more taxes on the private sector areas, property tax, income tax, sales tax, business tax. This will help the economy and create jobs and help close the budget deficit.

Nov. 19, 2010 |(101) Comments

Madison — Democratic Gov. Jim Doyle's administration on Friday told Republican Governor-elect Scott Walker that he would have to cope with a $2.2 billion deficit in the state's upcoming two-year budget, but this brighter-than-expected forecast contained more than $1 billion in hidden pain.

To arrive at the favorable estimate, the Doyle administration's estimate assumed that Walker and lawmakers would make spending cuts that have yet to actually happen - two more years of state employee furloughs, no pay raises, a virtual hiring freeze and belt tightening in state health programs. Without that $1.1 billion in savings, the state's projected shortfall rises to $3.3 billion - a significant increase over previous estimates that put the gap at between $2.7 billion and $3.1 billion.

ironglow · « **Reply #256 on:** February 28, 2011, 04:49:00 AM »

Quote from: billy_56081 on February 28, 2011, 01:49:21 AM

Scoot, whered ya get your poll? http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/peter-roff/2011/02/25/poll-wisconsin-gov-scott-walker-winning-labor-budget-fight

Here's an even better one. http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/02/mysterious-conservative-poll-of-walkers-budget-plan-hits-wisconsin.php

Of course yours were taken by the parasitic unions. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/22/wiscon-polls-oppose-walker_n_826359.html

Again, theives will lie and twist facts to support their theft.

Now Billy;
You know you should not pay any attention to biased people like Rasmussen..you should accept the AFL-CIO "poll" without question..
Does it REALLY matter..that the poll was conducted only among personnel in the AFL-CIO head offices ?

billy_56081 · « **Reply #257 on:** February 28, 2011, 05:04:58 AM »

When public sector unions go to the bargaining table who are they bargaining with? Who is there to bargain for the taxpayer? This is why collective bargaining cannot work in the public sector.

gypsyman · « **Reply #258 on:** February 28, 2011, 05:13:20 AM »

Billy, you hit the nail on the head. The public union's deal with politicians, who are nothing more than a mouthpiece, and usually a pretty dumb one at that. It's not their money that their dealing with. It's the tax payers money. And, low and behold, the well has gone dry.
Too many here think that a CEO or corporation needs to be tax'd more, but, they don't realize, that the increase will be passed on down to the consumer. So the public will pay more no matter what. The fat cow needs to go on a diet,period. gypsyman

ironglow · « **Reply #259 on:** February 28, 2011, 05:25:01 AM »

For over 70 years now, liberal/socialists have held Franklin Delano Roosevelt as a liberal icon..a demigod. Roosevelt was probably the most union promoting president we ever had..until B Hussein.
Why are these raucous unions not referring back to their mentor and demigod ? Here's why..here's what FDR said about unionizing the public service sector;

Roosevelt's reign certainly was the bright dawn of modern unionism. The legal and administrative paths that led to 35% of the nation's workforce eventually unionizing by a mid-1950s peak were laid by Roosevelt.

But only for the private sector. Roosevelt openly opposed bargaining rights for government unions.

"The process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service," Roosevelt wrote in 1937 to the National Federation of Federal Employees. Yes, public workers may demand fair treatment, wrote Roosevelt. But, he wrote, "I want to emphasize my conviction that militant tactics have no place" in the public sector. "A strike of public employees manifests nothing less than an intent on their part to prevent or obstruct the operations of Government.

Instead, we see on the news today that on the floor of the rotunda of the capitol building in Wisconsin, a motly, ragged looking mob of bongo drummers...doing their best to disrupt orderly government. All this mess is supposedly in support of the unions. We see mobs shouting obscene things, trying to drown out reporters from doing their job. Do we really want this ugly, "mob rule" crap to become part of our landscape ?
Whether we want it or not, I believe we are headed for such rioty to become commonplace...simply because the liberal/progressives want it. As was shown in Greece, Portugal and now in the mideast, the Fabian Progressives figure it is their time to strike.

Cabin4 · « **Reply #260 on:** February 28, 2011, 05:56:04 AM »

Quote from: billy_56081 on February 28, 2011, 05:04:58 AM

When public sector unions go to the bargaining table who are they bargaining with? Who is there to bargain for the taxpayer? This is why collective bargaining cannot work in the public sector.

Agree 100%. Unions with Collective Barganing Rights at the table negotiating with Politicians. NOT! In the privat esector we call this a "Coflict of Interest". Its 100% UNETHICAL.

guzzijohn · « **Reply #261 on:** February 28, 2011, 06:03:12 AM »

Although I feel that teacher's unions have gone over the top in the last 30+ years and I only belonged one year in 1977, my first year of teaching, without unions at some point a teaching job description would probably still look something like this:

“To Teachers” 1870

Each day teachers will fill lamps, clean chimneys and trim wicks.

Each teacher will bring a bucket of water and a scuttle of coal for the day
session.

Make pens carefully. You may whittle nibs to the individual taste of the pupil.

Men teachers may take one night each week for courting purposes, or two
evenings a week if they go to church regularly.

After school the teacher must spend the time until supper reading the Bible and
other good books.

Women teachers who marry or engage in unseemly conduct will be discharged.

Every teacher should lay aside from each month’s pay a goodly sum for his
benefit during his declining years so that he will not become a burden on
society.

Any teacher who smokes, uses liquor in any form, frequents pool halls or
public hall, or gets shaved in a barber shop, shall give good reason to suspect
his worth, integrity and honesty.

The teacher who performs his duties regularly and faithfully and without fault
for five years, wil be given an increase of 25 cents a week in his pay,
providing the Board of education approves.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #262 on:** February 28, 2011, 06:08:22 AM »

Yep Guzzi, and ya know what freedom means? If they don't like it they can go work somewhere else.

powderman · « **Reply #263 on:** February 28, 2011, 06:44:57 AM »

Quote

After school the teacher must spend the time until supper reading the Bible and
other good books.

HEH. If that were true today there would be no dem teachers. Imagine having to have morals and values. Wouldn't fly today. POWDERMAN.

guzzijohn · « **Reply #264 on:** February 28, 2011, 06:53:42 AM »

Quote from Powderman:

Quote

HEH. If that were true today there would be no dem teachers. Imagine having to have morals and values. Wouldn't fly today. POWDERMAN.

Guess you are saying that many Mennonite ministers do not have any morals and values? At least in central Kanas where Mennonites were first established in this country, the ministers I have known over my lifetime are democrat.
GuzziJohn

ironglow · « **Reply #265 on:** February 28, 2011, 09:26:00 AM »

Guzzijohn, on Mennonite ministers;

"Guess you are saying that many Mennonite ministers do not have any morals and values? At least in central Kanas where Mennonites were first established in this country, the ministers I have known over my lifetime are democrat."
GuzziJohn

Guizzi;
I know some Mennonites also, and I am surprised to see the ones in your area are Democrats ! Knowing the Democrat positions on things, I am puzzled they would agree with "gay" marriage, abortion, starving the helpless to death, queers in the pulpit, Planned Parenthood giving cover for incest & child molesters, legalizing "recreational" drugs and the government taking half their farm which they intended for their children...

If they do, they are a different breed of Mennonite than we have around here...

powderman · « **Reply #266 on:** February 28, 2011, 02:10:59 PM »

IRONGLOW. You are right on all counts, pretty clear that the Mennonites you and I know have a different God than we do. If guzzis are real Mennonites they cannot be dems as no Christian can be a dem. Christians have a sense of right and wrong, high morals, and strong family values, that pretty well eliminates dems and other libs. I sincerely doubt that guzzi really knows ANY REAL Mennonites. POWDERMAN.

ironglow · « **Reply #267 on:** March 01, 2011, 03:28:19 AM »

Quote from: TM7 on March 01, 2011, 02:09:32 AM

Apparently, there has been some mis-reporting on mass corpo news; "In Wisconsin, for example, research conducted by Jeffrey Keefe, an economist at Rutgers affiliated with E.P.I., found that public employees make 5 percent less than private sector workers -- even after adjusting for the fact that they work fewer hours and have better benefits. The annual pay gap is even bigger: Wisconsin public sector workers with bachelors’ degrees make $47,000, compared with $65,000 for their private-sector counterparts."

It’s unclear how the Koch governmnet and Walker think they can slash pension benefits, up employee contributions, and still retain and recruit good teachers and other state employees; while shifting blame to public workers for budget problems after giving Wis corps a $135 million tax cut. No wonder cops are joining with The People.

..TM7
.

TM;
USA Today and Mort Zuckerman are hardly bastions of conservatism...in fact most recognize them as LIBERAL; but there's an article from both. The headline tells it all, details in the text if you want:

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/mzuckerman/articles/2010/09/10/public-sector-workers-are-the-new-privileged-elite-class

guzzijohn · « **Reply #268 on:** March 01, 2011, 03:40:05 AM »

Ironglow and Powderman have taken it upon themselves to be experts in Christian religions with the claims that Mennonites could not be a democrat or for that matter that any Christian could be democrat. Both parties have ideals that some believe in a support and others that are not. It is quite insulting to be told that I do not know any real Mennonites

Quote

I sincerely doubt that guzzi really knows ANY REAL Mennonites. POWDERMAN.

when I have been a life long Mennonite. Below is a long post concerning some of the beliefs of the Mennonite Church (at least General Conference Mennonites) but I think it all needs posted. I feel the below more aligns with the democratic party than the republican party:

Quote

We can have no part in carnal warfare or conflict between nations, nor in strife between classes, groups, or individuals. We believe that this means that we cannot bear arms personally nor aid in any way those who do so, and that as a consequence we cannot accept service under the military arm of the government, whether direct or indirect, combatant or noncombatant, which ultimately involves participation in any operation aiding or abetting war and thus causes us to be responsible for the destruction of the life, health, and property of our fellow men.

Jesus showed compassion for all and helped them: the poor, the despised the outcasts, and wants us to do the same (Matt. 4:24-25; 9:9-13).

Jesus preaches, "Love your enemies; do not hate, be reconciled" (Matt. 5:38-48; 5:21-24).

In 2003, the Mennonite World Conference convened in Zimbabwe and adopted seven “Core Convictions” of the Mennonite faith:
By the grace of God we seek to live and proclaim the good news of reconciliation in Jesus Christ. As part of the one body of Christ at all times and places, the following are central to our belief and practice:
1. God is known to us as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, the Creator who seeks to restore fallen humanity by calling a people to be faithful in fellowship, worship, service, and witness.
2. Jesus is the son of God who showed in his life and teaching how to be faithful, and through his cross and resurrection redeemed the world.
3. The church is a community of those whom God’s Spirit calls to turn from sin, acknowledge Jesus Christ as Lord, receive baptism upon confession of faith and follow Christ in life.
4. The faith community, under Holy Spirit guidance, interprets the Bible in the light of Jesus Christ to discern God’s will for our obedience.
5. The Spirit of Jesus empowers us to trust God in all areas of life so we become peacemakers who renounce violence, love our enemies, seek justice and share our possessions with those in need.
6. The faith community gathers regularly to worship, to celebrate the Lord’s Supper and to hear the Word of God in a spirit of mutual accountability.
7. We seek to live in the world without conforming to the powers of evil, witnessing to God’s grace by serving others, caring for creation and inviting all people to know Jesus as Savior and Lord.
Mennonite Church USA Churchwide Statement on Immigration
Introduction
Mennonite Church USA has roots in seventeenth-century churches planted by immigrants from Europe. Our church
continues to grow and be enlivened by immigrants who join us from many countries. As Christians, we believe we are called to welcome these sojourners in our congregations and communities, especially as our government creates increasingly harsh immigration laws in the name of fighting terrorism. Assumptions about identity make some people more vulnerable to political biases and discrimination than others. Our concerns about the status of immigrants in this country relate to how people are treated based on race, nationality, ethnicity, and religious identity.
We reject our country’s mistreatment of immigrants, repent of our silence, and commit ourselves to act with and on behalf of our immigrant brothers and sisters, regardless of their legal status.
Biblical Background
The Bible offers us some valuable insights about welcoming strangers, and in our context immigrants are viewed as strangers. “When a stranger sojourns with you in your land, you shall not do [the stranger] wrong. The stranger who sojourns with you shall be to you as the native among you, and you shall love [the stranger] as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt…” (Leviticus 19:33, 34). We affirm that God has called us to welcome immigrants, because all of us are sojourners (Exodus 23:9, Deuteronomy 24:17, 18). We believe that when we welcome strangers, we welcome Jesus (Matthew 25:35).
Immigrants in the United States
We may not realize it, but our nation depends economically and culturally on the contributions of immigrants. Immigrant entrepreneurs, professionals, and artists contribute to the United States’ wealth and diverse culture. Immigrant laborers often work the least desirable jobs.
For many immigrants, however, the opportunities of living in the United States are offset by hardship and discrimination.
They work the most difficult and dangerous jobs for the lowest pay, and immigrants without documents are frequently cheated out of wages and denied compensation for work- related injuries. Unfair immigration policies make it difficult to travel across borders, unjust quota systems discriminate against citizens from some countries, and families are divided by long delays in document processing. Immigrants in poverty are denied most welfare and healthcare benefits. Because our society tells us to fear some immigrants more than others, an increasingly militarized U.S./Mexico border has led to reports of abuse by border guards and hundreds of deaths in the desert. 1
Since September 11, 2001, the Bush Administration, with the support of others in the government, has issued new policies and enforced old laws that strike fear in the hearts of immigrant communities, creating the perception that any contact with government officials or social service agencies might result in arrest or deportation. Middle Eastern males across the United States are being forced to register and are deported if their papers are not in order. Haitians and other Caribbean peoples arriving by boat are being detained without regard for their civil rights and deported even when they have credible fear of persecution at home. The new Department of Homeland
Security, whose stated mission is to guard the nation against terrorists, now handles immigration and refugee enforcement and services. Our government’s policies lead us to view these strangers as a threat to our safety and economic security.
Immigrants in our congregations
Immigrants—documented and undocumented—are members of many Mennonite Church USA congregations. Immigrant
churches face a society whose policies and practices discriminate against immigrants and people of color. Immigrant churches with undocumented members are deeply affected by the poverty and fear experienced by many members of their communities; often churches share the costs of food, shelter, and clothing, assist in job searches, and support families when members are deported. Undocumented church leaders are often unable or afraid to travel to larger church gatherings without identification. Congregations without immigrant members are finding their communities changed by immigration and are struggling with how to respond.
Our commitment
We affirm individuals and churches that are already working against poverty and fear in immigrant communities. We affirm those who are speaking to the government about our nation’s unjust immigration policies. We affirm the church’s work with anti-racism, while we acknowledge that much more work remains. We also affirm the church’s support of agencies that are addressing the roots of international inequality, which cause people to emigrate. However, we understand that because the United States controls more material resources than any other country, people will continue to immigrate here in search of economic and political stability. Because of our nation’s abundance, because God has called us to welcome the sojourner, and because of the richness that immigrants bring to the Mennonite Church USA, we commit ourselves to action with and on behalf of our immigrant brothers and sisters.
We invite Mennonite Church USA congregations to consider the following actions (resources listed below):
1.   Build relationships with newcomers in our communities. Facilitate the mutual sharing of immigrants’ stories and contributions in our churches and neighborhoods.
2.   Plan congregational learning tours in our communities, including immigrant neighborhoods, churches, and workplaces, as well as government offices that serve immigrants.
3.   Partner with immigrant congregations to plan church services or community events.
4.   Offer church facilities and volunteers for documentation services, English classes, ethnic celebrations, or other outreach programs.
5.   Engage in mutual aid to offer food, shelter, clothing, and other resources to undocumented and documented immigrants.
6.   Learn about issues affecting immigrants by reading newspapers or magazines, joining national immigration rights organizations, or contacting church agencies that work with immigration issues.
7.   Join study tours to the U.S./Mexico border, refugee camps, or detention centers to learn more about U.S. immigration and refugee policies.
8.   Advocate for just and humane policies for immigrants and refugees by contacting local, state, and national elected officials.

The national Mennonite Convention for 2013 to be held in Phoenix was almost withdrawn due to the passing of the anti-immigration law.

ironglow · « **Reply #269 on:** March 01, 2011, 05:17:44 AM »

Guzzi says;
"Ironglow and Powderman have taken it upon themselves to be experts in Christian religions with the claims that Mennonites could not be a democrat or for that matter that any Christian could be democrat. Both parties have ideals that some believe in a support and others that are not. It is quite insulting to be told that I do not know any real Mennonites"
Quote

Ironglow says;

In all due respect, I must repeat a paraphrase on early driving instructions..." put brain in gear..before engaging mouth"..

I never said a Mennonite or a Christian could not be a Democrat..

Each person can do as they wish; an American can be a communist, facist or KKK member if they wish; not that it does America any special good..but they can do so.

You posted the mission statement of the Mennonites..I still didn't see where they endorse gay marriage, abortion, queers in the pulpit or killing the helpless..

You printed a statement of the "Mennonite Church USA"...they don't sound like the Mennonites I know, since they advocate breaking the law. Mennonites here tend to be law obeying, orderly people. I doubt the Mennonites I know would be advocation breaking the law (concerning immigration & naturalization). They try not to approach the Bible "cafeteria style" ...'obey some parts and disobey the other parts' ..and they try to approach the laws of the land the same way..
In all due respect again; Is this "Mennonite Church USA" a breakaway , apostate branch of the original Mennonites ? I have heard there are such groups .