Author Topic: Democratic senators bail ship (Read 60691 times)

guzzijohn · « **Reply #270 on:** March 01, 2011, 05:37:11 AM »

Quote from Ironglow:

Quote

In all due respect again; Is this "Mennonite Church USA" a breakaway , apostate branch of the original Mennonites ? I have heard there are such groups .

There are a number of different Mennonite groups in total. Mennonite USA consists of 109,000 members in 44 states and some in Canada. Here is there website:
http://www.mennoniteusa.org/Home/About/tabid/55/Default.aspx

GuzziJohn

powderman · « **Reply #271 on:** March 01, 2011, 05:39:52 AM »

Quote

You posted the mission statement of the Mennonites..I still didn't see where they endorse gay marriage, abortion, queers in the pulpit or killing the helpless..

IG. I reckon I missed that part too and also believe that his church must be a splinter from the Mennonites I know here. Why would they make such a long speil about helping criminals??? I don't understand that at all.
guzzi. I was the one who said that a real Christian could not be a democrat since real Christians do NOT support killing babies or endorse homosexuality, or vote for and support people that do. I stand by that. POWDERMAN.

guzzijohn · « **Reply #272 on:** March 01, 2011, 05:56:03 AM »

Quote from Powderman:

Quote

IG. I reckon I missed that part too and also believe that his church must be a splinter from the Mennonites I know here. Why would they make such a long speil about helping criminals??? I don't understand that at all.
guzzi. I was the one who said that a real Christian could not be a democrat since real Christians do NOT support killing babies or endorse homosexuality, or vote for and support people that do. I stand by that. POWDERMAN.

Both parties stand for many things, not just one or two things. overall the democratic party better represents many of the Mennonite positions, discounting abortion rights. As I have said many times in the past the church does not endorse homosexual behavior as describe in the bible, but understands that for whatever reasons people were born with these tendencies just as most others were born with heterosexual tendencies and we as Christians must show compassion and support for that person. A homosexual person cannot help how they feel only how they act upon it. Think about never being able to act upon your heterosexual desires because it is a sin. That is what a homosexual person have to deal with. What about people that are born with both sex organs? How are they to determine their sexual orientation?
GuzziJohn

powderman · « **Reply #273 on:** March 01, 2011, 07:00:18 AM »

guzzi. I stated the truth, deal with it. NO real Christian or Church of God would ever condone murdering the unborn, or vote for anybody that does. If you really believe that God condones murdering babies, and your church supports those who do, I feel sorry for ALL of you on judgement day. POWDERMAN.

guzzijohn · « **Reply #274 on:** March 01, 2011, 07:04:52 AM »

Quote by Powderman:

Quote

guzzi. I stated the truth, deal with it. NO real Christian or Church of God would ever condone murdering the unborn, or vote for anybody that does. If you really believe that God condones murdering babies, and your church supports those who do, I feel sorry for ALL of you on judgement day. POWDERMAN.

Your interpretation of the truth. I guess we will all find out on judgement day.
GuzziJohn

teamnelson · « **Reply #275 on:** March 01, 2011, 12:29:56 PM »

guzzijohn, from the link you provided:

http://www.mennoniteusa.org/Default.aspx?tabid=114

Quote

“We believe that God has created human beings in the divine image. God formed them from the dust of the earth and gave them a special dignity among all the works of creation. Human beings have been made for relationship with God, to live in peace with each other, and to take care of the rest of creation.”1

(Article VI, Confession of Faith in a Mennonite Perspective)

II. We believe

■Human life is a gift from God to be valued and protected. We oppose abortion because it runs counter to biblical principles.
■The fetus in its earliest stages (and even if imperfect by human standards) shares humanity with those who conceived it.
■There are times when deeply held values, such as saving the life of the mother and saving the life of the fetus, come in conflict with each other.
■The faith community should be a place for discernment about difficult issues like abortion.
■Abortion should not be used to interrupt unwanted pregnancies.
■Christians must provide viable alternatives to abortion that provide care and support for mothers and infants.
■The church should witness to society regarding the value of all human life.
■Professionals whose ministry involves dealing with the moral dilemmas of abortion and reproductive technologies need our support.

And a breakout on #3.

Quote

There are times when deeply held values come in conflict with each other.

We stress the importance of respect for the life of the fetus. We condone abortion only under the most exceptional of circumstances. When abortion appears to be the least bad choice among several undesirable options, we stress the need for discernment in the faith community.

Because of the diversity of moral conviction in our society, we realize that what the law permits is not necessarily moral behavior for the Christian. We believe, however, that the church should witness to society in favor of the “general presumption against any human decision to terminate life.”8 We will offer counsel about alternatives to abortion.

While many could support legislation which seeks to curtail some types of abortion, we recognize that legislation banning all abortions will not stop abortions from happening. Instead, it places sanctions on those women who choose abortion, without regard for the fathers involved or the fact that the women are already suffering the consequences of their choice. It also disproportionately affects the poor, as those with means will be able to find ways to obtain safe abortions. Further, legislation is using the government to force others to comply with our Christian standards, something our forebears clearly rejected. We believe that the demands of discipleship are to be accepted voluntarily, not imposed legally upon everyone regardless of conviction.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #276 on:** March 01, 2011, 12:54:59 PM »

TeamNelson once again you hit it right out of the park.

powderman · « **Reply #277 on:** March 01, 2011, 01:29:43 PM »

Quote

■Human life is a gift from God to be valued and protected. We oppose abortion because it runs counter to biblical principles.

TEAMNELSON. With statements like that it doesn't seem that the church would support and vote for those who believe otherwise. I believe guzzis church is definitely different from any Mennonites I've ever known, must be a splinter group of some sort. POWDERMAN.

scootrd · « **Reply #278 on:** March 01, 2011, 04:45:51 PM »

well this thread has gotten totally off Track .

ironglow · « **Reply #279 on:** March 01, 2011, 05:17:22 PM »

Right you are, Scootrd;

The thread started out calling attention to the fact that the Demoncrat senators of Wisconsin had bailed. jumped ship, absconded, gone AWOL, flew the coop, betrayed their pledge, ran scared or however you wish to word it !
Fact is, they are not back on the job yet ! Still a bunch of truants.... I shouldn't expect they plan on getting paid from the tax coffers for the time they have wasted, playing games in a neighboring state !

Cabin4 · « **Reply #280 on:** March 01, 2011, 06:12:39 PM »

Quote from: ironglow on March 01, 2011, 05:17:22 PM

Right you are, Scootrd;

The thread started out calling attention to the fact that the Demoncrat senators of Wisconsin had bailed. jumped ship, absconded, gone AWOL, flew the coop, betrayed their pledge, ran scared or however you wish to word it !
Fact is, they are not back on the job yet ! Still a bunch of truants.... I shouldn't expect they plan on getting paid from the tax coffers for the time they have wasted, playing games in a neighboring state !

At minimum its great theater. But what it reveals is just what a weak group these loser liberals are. They lost the election and instead of doing the best they can for the People they represent, they ran away. It is a historical moment for Wisconsin and a defining moment for Walker. When this aspect of the budget battle is done, he should crucify them politically at every opportunity for running away. No Mercy.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #281 on:** March 01, 2011, 07:10:47 PM »

Exactly scoot. It appears the this thread has wandered away from the reason we are here. A bunch of thieves who are using their union dues to buy politicians who in turn buy themselves votes with more and more of the taxpayers money. Again I say who is there to collectively bargain for the taxpayer? The public service unions are bargaining for higher pay and incentives with the politicians they have put into government with their contributions. The taxpayer is not being represented in this so called collective bargaining. It has to be first understood that folks in public sector jobs are not taxpayers. They are only returning a portion of tax money that was given to them as pay.

ironglow · « **Reply #282 on:** March 01, 2011, 11:46:45 PM »

The big unions fail to put the dues money collected from members into the pension plans as they promised they would. So what did they do with those millions of dollars ? ...They gave them to the DNC to finance Democrats' election campaigns.
Now, since the unions have vastly underfunded the pension funds, Democrat politicians want to extort more tax money from the honest citizens who work hard and don't have the cushy pension that unions have promised to their sheeple.
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=37491
..Looks like the union crowd doesn't mind such theivery attached to their names. ...But how many here fail to recognize a cozy, crooked, Chicago politics style shakedown when they see it ?

powderman · « **Reply #283 on:** March 02, 2011, 07:06:31 AM »

Quote

Fact is, they are not back on the job yet ! Still a bunch of truants.... I shouldn't expect they plan on getting paid from the tax coffers for the time they have wasted, playing games in a neighboring state !

And what would you bet that the hotels, food, transportation, gratuities, etc are being put on their congressional expense accouts that the taxpayers are paying for?? POWDERMAN.

gypsyman · « **Reply #284 on:** March 02, 2011, 07:26:54 AM »

Thanks for getting this back on topic. I know how easy it is to bring other opinions in on a topic, that have bearing, but somehow have a tendency to vier off course.
Now that it's been over 2 weeks, has anybody like the tea party folks starting to rally against the Dem's that left??
I would think that after this long, somebody would be out calling for a dismissal of these so-called public servants, and demanding a new election. Nobody, but nobody could get away with this anywhere. We've got politicians running scared and resigning because of rumurs and inuendo's. These guys/gals are blatantly breaking the law, refusing to come back. Governor Walker ought to give them 24 hours to get back to work, or demand all their resignations. gypsyman

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #285 on:** March 02, 2011, 07:34:17 AM »

They are not doing their job. They are grandstanding pure and simple. They could have been present and not voted as it is they look like idoits. Best let them act stupid and replace them ! But then look at Ted K. and the support he had.

Buckskin · « **Reply #286 on:** March 02, 2011, 07:38:11 AM »

Quote from: gypsyman on March 02, 2011, 07:26:54 AM

Thanks for getting this back on topic. I know how easy it is to bring other opinions in on a topic, that have bearing, but somehow have a tendency to vier off course.
Now that it's been over 2 weeks, has anybody like the tea party folks starting to rally against the Dem's that left??
I would think that after this long, somebody would be out calling for a dismissal of these so-called public servants, and demanding a new election. Nobody, but nobody could get away with this anywhere. We've got politicians running scared and resigning because of rumurs and inuendo's. These guys/gals are blatantly breaking the law, refusing to come back. Governor Walker ought to give them 24 hours to get back to work, or demand all their resignations. gypsyman

There are about 6 recall petitions being conducted to get these bums out of office, my guess is that about half will succeed.

ironglow · « **Reply #287 on:** March 02, 2011, 12:12:51 PM »

Quote from: gypsyman on March 02, 2011, 07:26:54 AM

Thanks for getting this back on topic. I know how easy it is to bring other opinions in on a topic, that have bearing, but somehow have a tendency to vier off course.
Now that it's been over 2 weeks, has anybody like the tea party folks starting to rally against the Dem's that left??
I would think that after this long, somebody would be out calling for a dismissal of these so-called public servants, and demanding a new election. Nobody, but nobody could get away with this anywhere. We've got politicians running scared and resigning because of rumurs and inuendo's. These guys/gals are blatantly breaking the law, refusing to come back. Governor Walker ought to give them 24 hours to get back to work, or demand all their resignations. gypsyman

Gypsyman;
There have bben some demonstrations by TP members, but of course many of them WORK for a living. I do however, understand that the TP is heading an effort to get signatures for a recall of the AWOL..sick, lame & lazy politicians. Hope it works..

scootrd · « **Reply #288 on:** March 02, 2011, 01:27:33 PM »

You all do realize Pension and Benefits are part of Wisconsin Public employees compensation package. They earned them . The tax payer actually pays nothing .

Gov. Scott Walker says he wants state workers covered by collective bargaining agreements to “contribute more” to their pension and health insurance plans. Accepting Gov. Walker’ s assertions as fact, and failing to check, creates the impression that somehow the workers are getting something extra, a gift from taxpayers. They are not. Out of every dollar that funds Wisconsin’ s pension and health insurance plans for state workers, 100 cents comes from the state workers.

The pension plan is the direct result of deferred compensation- money that employees would have been paid as cash salary but choose, instead, to have placed in the state operated pension fund where the money can be professionally invested (at a lower cost of management) for the future.

Governor Walker has gotten away with this false narrative because journalists have failed to look closely at how employee pension plans work and have simply accepted the Governor’s word for it. Because of this, those who wish the unions ill have been able to seize on that narrative to score points by running ads and spreading the word that state employees pay next to nothing for their pensions and that it is all a big taxpayer give-away.

If the Wisconsin governor and state legislature were to be honest, they would correctly frame this issue. They are not, in fact, asking state employees to make a larger contribution to their pension and benefits programs as that would not be possible- the employees are already paying 100% of the contributions.

What they are actually asking is that the employees take a pay cut.

That may or may not be an appropriate request depending on your point of view – but the argument that the taxpayers are providing state workers with some gift is a false argument.

Maybe state workers need to take pay cuts But let’s, at the least be honest for what it is rather than pretending they’ve been getting away with some sweet deal that now must be brought to an end.

I do not understand why the media and others continue to perpetuate this misleading myth.

______________________________________

Here is the link to the actual collective Bargaining Agreements.

http://oser.state.wi.us/subcategory.asp?linksubcatid=1246&linkcatid=389&linkid=2

billy_56081 · « **Reply #289 on:** March 02, 2011, 01:48:33 PM »

"You all do realize Pension and Benefits are part of their compensation package. They earned them . The tax payer actually pays nothing ."

Scoot if this is not tax dollars being used where did it come from?

"What they are actually asking is that the employees take a pay cut."

Yep the state is broke, to many years and too many folks who do not pay REAL tax dollars into the state coffers.

scootrd · « **Reply #290 on:** March 02, 2011, 01:52:10 PM »

Quote from: billy_56081 on March 02, 2011, 01:48:33 PM

Scoot if this is not tax dollars being used where did it come from?

Where it came from is I payed you 10.00 to do a Job (this is your salary) , and you elected to defer a portion of your salary lets say 2 of the 10 dollars towards employee pension and benefits to be managed by a fund professional.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #291 on:** March 02, 2011, 01:58:15 PM »

Scoot, the taxes paid by public employees ad NOTHING to the state coffers. They are paid with dollars TAXED from the private sector job. They only return a portion of the tax dollars given to them as wages. GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES ADD NOTHING TO THE GDP OF THE STATE. Get it?

scootrd · « **Reply #292 on:** March 02, 2011, 02:05:14 PM »

Quote from: billy_56081 on March 02, 2011, 01:58:15 PM

Scoot, the taxes paid by public employees ad NOTHING to the state coffers. They are paid with dollars TAXED from the private sector job. They only return a portion of the tax dollars given to them as wages. GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES ADD NOTHING TO THE GDP OF THE STATE. Get it?

And Taxpayers are paying nothing for Public employees pension and benefits. So why does everyone keep repeating the Myth?

billy_56081 · « **Reply #293 on:** March 02, 2011, 02:11:54 PM »

Quote from: scootrd on March 02, 2011, 02:05:14 PM

Quote from: billy_56081 on March 02, 2011, 01:58:15 PM
Scoot, the taxes paid by public employees ad NOTHING to the state coffers. They are paid with dollars TAXED from the private sector job. They only return a portion of the tax dollars given to them as wages. GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES ADD NOTHING TO THE GDP OF THE STATE. Get it?

And Taxpayers are paying nothing for Public employees pension and benefits. So why does everyone keep repeating the Myth?

If taxpayers pay nothing for public employees pension and benefits as you claim, please tell me where this magic money to pay these things comes from?

white eagle · « **Reply #294 on:** March 02, 2011, 02:25:19 PM »

Government is full of crooks and liars
Wisconsin has the highest paid state workers,teachers,snow plow drivers,firemen,police yada yada yada
people who say unions are busing protesters don't have a clue and have lost touch with reality
Trouble is people want to have a division in financial status
why would anyone be against the average Joe getting ahead ?
everyone knows how good the Republicans do after all look at what Nixon did for the country
I have about had it

ironglow · « **Reply #295 on:** March 02, 2011, 02:35:29 PM »

"And taxpayers are paying nothing for public employees pensions and benefits"

Scoot.. Tell me you didn't really say that.. naw! couldn't be... I doubt they even grow "wacky tabacky" that strong...

Every penny public employees get..comes from taxpayers. Every crust that enters their mouth comes from taxpayers.. so where, pray tell, did the money for the public employees pensions and bennies come from ? Govt doesn't produce a single product for resale.
Yes, the govt owns part of GM & Chrysler..but those who build those cars which I won't buy..are not "public sector" employees...
But if Obama gets his way, we will be paying for the union auto workers pensions, while the union bosses take the member's dues and give them to the DNC..

billy_56081 · « **Reply #296 on:** March 02, 2011, 02:35:50 PM »

I'm still wondering where this magic money to pay these things is coming from?

ironglow · « **Reply #297 on:** March 02, 2011, 02:40:39 PM »

Quote from: billy_56081 on March 02, 2011, 02:35:50 PM

I'm still wondering where this magic money to pay these things is coming from?

Billy;
Probably where the magic money to pay off Obama's $15, 000,000,000,000 debt is coming from..your kids& grandkids and everybody else's descendants for the next 100 years or so.. ...And the Democrats & unions want to keep on SPENDING..

.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #298 on:** March 02, 2011, 02:41:26 PM »

Oh wait IG I found out where this magic money comes from.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOZ-Etb0k0Q

It's coming from Obama's stash!!!

With our fine public education system can you believe people can be this stupid? WOW!

Buckskin · « **Reply #299 on:** March 02, 2011, 03:11:08 PM »

Quote from: scootrd on March 02, 2011, 01:27:33 PM

You all do realize Pension and Benefits are part of Wisconsin Public employees compensation package. They earned them . The tax payer actually pays nothing .

I do not understand why the media and others continue to perpetuate this misleading myth.

______________________________________

That may be the most rediculous thing I have ever heard in my entire life.

You really need to stop swallowing all that junk that your union is puking down your throat...