Democratic senators bail ship

[Buckskin]

The only reason collective bargaining is an issue is because of the supreme court decision on political campaign contributions period . Bust the union , bust the donations, Big corps can then contribute at will in next election cycle
and not worry about other side matching dollar for dollar . Has nothing to do with balancing a budget - has everything to do with Big business wanting to influence and exert and impose their will on our political system and our politicians .

All that money will still be there, just in individuals hands. Those used to be union members can donate the same or more to the party, ohhhh but I guess now it will be the party of their choice.  I guess that might make a difference.....

[Buckskin]

Wwalker update

And here's the latest  -  Tide is turning for the one term big business puppet

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/03/rasmussen-poll-almost-six-in-ten-wisconsin-voters-disapprove-of-gov-walker.php

Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker's efforts to strip public employee unions of most of their collective bargaining rights appears to be so unpopular, that a Rasmussen poll now finds that almost 60% of likely Wisconsin voters disapprove of his job performance.

That finding shows just how quickly Walker -- who was elected to his first term last November with 52% of the vote -- has sunk just in his first two months in office. And it comes one day after Rasmussen released results from the same poll, all of which showed public opinion firmly on the side of the unions in the labor rights battle that has deadlocked the state capitol for the past few weeks.

The Rasmussen poll is notable because, while PPP and GQR are Democratic pollsters, Rasmussen tends to tilt Republican, suggesting the results spell even more trouble for Walker.

Heres the Poll

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/general_state_surveys/wisconsin/wisconsin_governor_walker_43_approval_rating

Again, I don't want a gov that floats with the wind based on polls.  I want one with conviction, and Walker will hold on his.  And the unions have their k9's pulled and be nothing more than an old dog that sleeps all day and barks at ghosts...

[Cabin4]

Scoot,
How about the public opinion poll of the last election? How about the disaster of a $3trillion dollar deficit and massive over spending?  Do these count for anything, or is it all about the 500,000 or so state union workers? And the other 5.5million residents just have to shut up and open thier wallets?

[scootrd]

Look Guys , it isn't like walker hasn't tried this before , now he is just trying again on a larger stage. It worked out terrible for him the first time , and now Wisconsin is having to pay double for security Guards.

How did walker try and do it the first time "He manufactured a budget emergency" which the courts ruled to be false...... Sound familiar ??

Mar. 3, 2011 - Milwaukee County has doubled up on its courthouse and other building security, as 21 of 27 guards laid off a year ago in an abortive privatization move are back on the job  But 21 private guards the county hired in an emergency budget move in March 2009 by then-County Executive Scott Walker also remain on the job at a cost to the county of about $95,000 a month, county Public Works Director Jack Takerian said Wednesday. Walker was elected governor in November.

"We are basically paying for the service twice now," said John Ruggini, the county's assistant budget administrator...........

read the rest here ........
http://onevoicetulsa.com/index.php?ht=display/ContentDetails/i/4437631

[Cabin4]

Its a drop in the bucket compared to the horrific damage the state union workers have done to the budget and the deficit. The 6 million residents are paying and will continue to pay for the union damage for generations to come unless there is change now.

You seem to be coming around Scoot. At least your conserned about spending now. Now lets go after the big spending areas. One of those are state worker salaries, benies and leverage. Is this important

[billy_56081]

The liberal parasitic union thugs are a dangerous lot. Too bad they can't be civilized.

[Cabin4]

The union thugs, their own admitted affinity with Egypt and their union co conspirators in so called "law enforcement".

All blood suckers, slowly killing the tax payers and running our country into the ground.

[scootrd]

Its a drop in the bucket compared to the horrific damage the state union workers have done to the budget and the deficit. The 6 million residents are paying and will continue to pay for the union damage for generations to come unless there is change now.

You seem to be coming around Scoot. At least your conserned about spending now. Now lets go after the big spending areas. One of those are state worker salaries, benies and leverage. Is this important

Not coming around at all .. we will have to agree to disagree agreeable.

Peace

[Cabin4]

The unenforcement law officers supporting the lazy union thugs. I guess, what differance does it make. Sleeping on the job or sleeping in the protest line.

[billy_56081]

Looks like the norm for a union worker. Unions, driving up inflation through slow shoddy work.

[Buckskin]

Look Guys , it isn't like walker hasn't tried this before , now he is just trying again on a larger stage. It worked out terrible for him the first time , and now Wisconsin is having to pay double for security Guards.

Scoot....history repeats itself..!  Walker history repeats itself balantly.  He has a grudge against unions for some reason that goes beyond any reasonable budgetary concerns. Privatization rarely works and rarely saves taxpayers money if ever......IT IS THE SAME HOODWINK....SOCIALIZATION OF COSTS--PRIVATIZATION OF PROFITS ....this is the Koch and Walker program in essence. Of course, unions stand in the way of this scenario and they also want to guard and oversee their pension and other funds; i.e. not loose control of these funds. This is what many so-called conservatives call 'capitalism'...

There is tremendous wealth in Wisconsin...and the State already controls most of it....they have no budget problems in reality.

..TM7
.

Your right, history does repeat itself.  And that is why we elected Walker to clean up Wisconsin government like he did with Milwaukee's.  When Walker became County Executive he inherited the pension scandal and a budget problem similar to what we have in the state now.  And he saved the county from becoming a mini- Chicago, kept it above water and made Mayor Tom Barrett look good without Tom doing anything (which he is best at anyway).  If Walker would have done politics as usual Milwaukee would be in big trouble...  We'll see who replaces him and which direction the idiots in Milwaukee want to go, back to the spend into oblivion or fiscal restraint...  Yep some cuts were made to programs, county work force and some sacrifice was needed by everyone, just like the state is faced with now.  And the unions were fighting him at every step, but guess what, Walker never backed down.... No matter the polls...

[Cabin4]

Look Guys , it isn't like walker hasn't tried this before , now he is just trying again on a larger stage. It worked out terrible for him the first time , and now Wisconsin is having to pay double for security Guards.

How did walker try and do it the first time "He manufactured a budget emergency" which the courts ruled to be false...... Sound familiar ??

Mar. 3, 2011 - Milwaukee County has doubled up on its courthouse and other building security, as 21 of 27 guards laid off a year ago in an abortive privatization move are back on the job  But 21 private guards the county hired in an emergency budget move in March 2009 by then-County Executive Scott Walker also remain on the job at a cost to the county of about $95,000 a month, county Public Works Director Jack Takerian said Wednesday. Walker was elected governor in November.

"We are basically paying for the service twice now," said John Ruggini, the county's assistant budget administrator...........

read the rest here ........
http://onevoicetulsa.com/index.php?ht=display/ContentDetails/i/4437631

Scoot....history repeats itself..!  Walker history repeats itself balantly.  He has a grudge against unions for some reason that goes beyond any reasonable budgetary concerns. .

Yes, Walker and the 6million residents have a grudge. Its called a $3trillion dollar budget problem in large parts caused bu the union workers. Previous admistrations have not fixed it. The unions have made demands over history that cause great stress on the budget. Life in WIsconsion is not all about the 6 million residents working more and harder for less of a wage so state union workers can continue to recieve unreasonable salaries, benefits and negotition leverage. The union workers greedy and they are unwilling to sacrifice like the rest of the residents.

You, Scoot and few others continue to ignore the larger set of facts. All your focus is on the Union fighting Walker. Theres more to this. Open your eyes.

[billy_56081]

Nothing wrong with having a grudge with organinsed criminal parasite labor.

[scootrd]

You, Scoot and few others continue to ignore the larger set of facts. All your focus is on the Union fighting Walker. Theres more to this. Open your eyes.

My eyes are wide open,   -  lets re-visit on a smaller scale the proposed "Emergency Budget repair "  line Walker is trying to feed the state. Since we have a test case from his earlier position  as Milwaukee County Executive. 

1st the courts ruled his Chicken little the sky is falling rhetoric was fictitious in nature and proven untrue when he tried the earlier stunt as Milwaukee County Executive. 2nd his Wackenhut buddy in charge of the team had to removed, since he had five misdemeanor convictions in 2004. Remember this is the same privatized outfit that disgraced us by holding drunken nude  dances and drinking out of each others backsides in Afghanistan on the State Department’s dime.

So walker tries to sell this line of bull stating they would save taxpayers more than $750,000 a year. But when the county’s audit department crunched the numbers The savings just wasn't there.  But even when they showed Walker the proof he tried to override the county board. So the county was forced to over-ride his veto.

And the so-called Jobs this whole privatization fiasco he promised was going to create Wisconsin Jobs?.  Well lets see he sent 27 Milwaukee security guards to the unemployment line, awarded a contract to foreign-owned Wackenhut, and they in turn replaced those jobs  staffed by folks from Florida, Ohio, and Illinois.

Well that worked out well !!!

Now lets access the damage:
Now the taxpayers were stuck with footing the bill for three security teams: county-employed security staff, sheriff’s deputies (overtime costs ran have run over $29,000) and Wackenhut employees (an estimated $41,679). The county was also responsible for paying unemployment compensation for the displaced workers. 

Walker is just a belligerent Donkey who's not actually interested in fixing any supposed emergency budget repair.
If he was he could do so today since all have agreed with the fiscal concessions already.

All this one term governor is interested in is paying off his buddies that got him elected. Make no mistake Walker is bought and paid for and does not have Wisconsinits best interests at heart. I may oppose most of Chris Christie's positions and the way he governs, But at least he is not afraid to come to table and bargain, and for that he earns my respect.

Well we do agree on one thing I do think it's time some folks open their eyes. and yes , don't get me wrong I do see this level of croysim is on both sides of the isle. But in this case paid for walker is dead wrong.

BTW  -  JUST IN PASSING

In the latest Gallup poll , 61% of adults nationwide said that they would oppose any law that would take away collective bargaining rights for state employees, including teachers. Only one third, 33%, said that they would support that measure if it were proposed in their state.

YES ..The Numbers keep climbing daily.. The tide is definitely turning, as people understand whats really going on is cronyism and paid for politician big business puppets trying to quid pro quo under the guise of Budget balancing when in reality they just want to bash unions to pave the way for unabated 2012 campaign contributions into Rep coffers.

[billy_56081]

The poll is still 80% in favor of Walker.

[Cabin4]

Sorry, thats $3billion not trillion. As I said in post 61 the state is reporting a deficit of $2.7b to $3.1b. BTW: As reported by the previous out going Democrat Gov.

[scootrd]

The poll is still 80% in favor of Walker.

I'm assuming your referring to the Billy Poll ..cause no national polling statistics are supporting your last statement

[scootrd]

Nothing wrong with having a grudge with organinsed criminal parasite labor.

.
Yeah...there is something wrong with grudges after all the tough talk....when it manipulates facts and figures dishonestly, when it feigns representation of citizens but only represents a special interest, when creates its own budget problems to advance a private agenda, when it upsets the workings of governmnet and trifles with people's lives but for a special interest agenda, when it mis-characterizes and makes enemies unnecessarily, when it breakes contracts, and when it shifts expenditures to those least able to afford it under a false cover......it may even be considered criminal.

..TM7
.

+1 - well said

[billy_56081]

The poll is still 80% in favor of Walker.

I'm assuming your referring to the Billy Poll ..cause no national polling statistics are supporting your last statement

No more biased than your AFL/CIO poll you refer to.

Hey do ya have anything you want me to pass on to my bro in law before he votes on the Ohio anti parasitic union bill?

[scootrd]

The poll is still 80% in favor of Walker.

I'm assuming your referring to the Billy Poll ..cause no national polling statistics are supporting your last statement

No more biased than your AFL/CIO poll you refer to.

Hey do ya have anything you want me to pass on to my bro in law before he votes on the Ohio anti parasitic union bill?

Billy I have reported continuously numerous polls , those with Dem slants and those with Rep slants to try and remain fair and balanced. The problem for you is ALL the polls state the people do not want Walker to continue down the path of stripping away collective bargaining . You just refuse to acknowledge you are vastly in the minority with your stated position. it's ok , it's your right and your position. But don't BS knowing it's not what the majority of people within the state or on a national level want.

And yes please pass onto your brother in law, I wish him well and stay safe , and I respect him for his service laying it on the line everyday. I Just wish his governor had the same amount of respect as I do and not call them all idiots for doing their job and putting themselves n harms way everyday to protect us.

[Cabin4]

Nothing wrong with having a grudge with organinsed criminal parasite labor.

.
Yeah...there is something wrong with grudges after all the tough talk....when it manipulates facts and figures dishonestly, when it feigns representation of citizens but only represents a special interest, when creates its own budget problems to advance a private agenda, when it upsets the workings of governmnet and trifles with people's lives but for a special interest agenda, when it mis-characterizes and makes enemies unnecessarily, when it breakes contracts, and when it shifts expenditures to those least able to afford it under a false cover......it may even be considered criminal.

..TM7
.

+1 - well said

You guys can fantasize all you want about the financial facts of the state of Wisconsin. Your beloved former democrat Gov said it himself, how grave the situation is for the state. All of a sudden, when the overpaid union worker salaries, benefits and ridiculous pensions are on the line, magically the state has no more financial problems. As if all the financial disasters this country has are all just a farce. This lying and stealing from the tax payers has no end in sight for the liberals, socialists and union thugs. They will rape this country to the point is destroys their own lives in the end. What’s even more ridiculous, is if you mention a tax cut for the people and business that fund the corruption of payments to the union thugs, all of a sudden the state does have a financial problem….. interesting. Have their cake and eat it too….  Yet of course the tax payers who have to keep paying and hurting so the union thugs can take more money from the real producers of GDP, just have to, well, keep doing it. Because the union thugs are just that, thugs, liars and stealing, selfish cheaters to the system. These people are living on the dole now with inflated incomes. Literally akin to what the mobs do the big cities. They force small business owners to buy their products at inflated prices. The state of Wisconsin Union thugs are doing the same thing with the help of the politicians for years. If the DOJ wanted to take on the next dimension of organized crime in this country, all they have to do is start with the State Union workers in and their Union leadership in Wisconsin.

I challenge you TM and Scoot to find one single, even remotely credible source that will go on the record, that Wisconsin budget challenges are minimal in size & scope. $3billion is no small issue for a state of 6 million people.

[scootrd]

You guys can fantasize all you want about the financial facts of the state of Wisconsin. Your beloved former democrat Gov said it himself, how grave the situation is for the state. (hes not my beloved GOV) All of a sudden, when the overpaid union worker salaries, benefits and ridiculous pensions are on the line, magically the state has no more financial problems. (I never said they dont have financial problems all states do , and I agree with the concessions but you cannot balance the states budgets on the backs of the workers) As if all the financial disasters this country has are all just a farce. This lying and stealing from the tax payers has no end in sight for the liberals, socialists and union thugs.(We disagree , unions have their problems , but not negotiations is not the solution) They will rape this country to the point is destroys their own lives in the end. (who's raping the country is the corps they take all the tax breaks the states provide and continue to outsource American jobs oversees) What’s even more ridiculous, is if you mention a tax cut for the people and business that fund the corruption of payments to the union thugs, all of a sudden the state does have a financial problem….. interesting. Have their cake and eat it too….  (it's the corps that want  their cake and eat it too , Ohio I believe has zero corp tax ...where are the jobs?) Yet of course the tax payers who have to keep paying and hurting so the union thugs can take more money from the real producers of GDP, just have to, well, keep doing it. Because the union thugs are just that, thugs, liars and stealing, selfish cheaters to the system. These people are living on the dole now with inflated incomes.  (Inflated income , Please , whats the average salary for a teacher in public sector vs Private sector? Me thinks you better investigate a bit further before making this statement!! if you would like me to share with you the national independent study I will be happy to track it down)Literally akin to what the mobs do the big cities. They force small business owners to buy their products at inflated prices. The state of Wisconsin Union thugs are doing the same thing with the help of the politicians for years. If the DOJ wanted to take on the next dimension of organized crime in this country, all they have to do is start with the State Union workers in and their Union leadership in Wisconsin.

I challenge you TM and Scoot to find one single, even remotely credible source that will go on the record, that Wisconsin budget challenges are minimal in size & scope. $3billion is no small issue for a state of 6 million people. (I agree but again you need a balanced approach to budgets and what walker is doing amounts to rape for the wisconsinite middle class , and cronyism for his large corp buddies)

Been 59 days since republicans took office in DC, not one jobs bill has passed -  didn't they campaign on the promise of they learned the error of their ways and passing jobs bills and jobs creation would be number one priority , Heres the problem they have - 223,000 new jobs created this month , employment just dipped below 9%, and this was accomplished based on the policies previously enacted that they all voted against. Instead the only thing they have concentrated on is dismantling everything that was previously put in place that has proven to be working and concentrating on social issues the majority of Americans want big govt to stay out of their private lives with. 

Just look towards Wyoming the most republican state we have -  conservatives in that state have just voted down passage of bills regarding abortions and gay marraige ..why because Conservatives in Wyoming get it. It's not Govt's role to dictate morality. it's their role to help create a vibrant ecomomy.

The new majority in DC has done nothing to continue to fuel the started growth.
They told us they learned their lesson ... we believed ..we voted them back in .. and nothing , i repeat nothing has been done so far. duped again.

yes I definitely agree with your previous statement folks need to open their eyes. and fortunately most are beginning too.
http://whenarethejobs.com/

[Cabin4]

Scoot,

The US has the highest corp tax rates in the world. States are being forced to compete in the process for attracting employers to their state. The states do not have control over the federal tax rates. So while you can find isolated examples or corporation that are not paying their fair share do to loop holes, the significant majority are being hurt by the combination of the state and federal over taxing. Business/corporations bring real jobs that produce a product and or service. That must be the focus to bring incremental new employers to Wisconsin. Those employers hire people who pay tax and the employer pays tax. State workers NEED a strong business base so the tax dollars flow in to keep the workers employed. You cannot focus on a tax revenue issue and ignore the spending side when the budget situation is so lop-sided as it is. Now is not the time for unions to demand anything. They should concede on the bargaining as well. The state needs the flexibility to secure stability go forward in the budget process. I'll remind you that federal union employees do not have collective bargaining. Its shifts the balance of negotiations from the employer to the worker. Wisconsin is a "Show Case" of what goes wrong when the workers have collective bargaining. The tax payer gets held hostage while the politicians figure out how to negotiate based on campaign contributions! Its morally corrupt.

[scootrd]

Scoot,

The US has the highest corp tax rates in the world. States are being forced to compete in the process for attracting employers to their state. The states do not have control over the federal tax rates. So while you can find isolated examples or corporation that are not paying their fair share do to loop holes. Isolated examples ? your kidding right ? 2/3 of American corporation paid nothing in federal taxes. Whats lower than zero. you paid more in taxes than Bank of America and GE as an example. so if the states want them to pay nothing and they pay nothing to fed , who is paying ? you and I that's who . and for what gain?  None .. they certainly are investing overseas but not here in USA.
and the fight is being directed towards teachers and unions.. com'on lets get real. I feel like I'm watching a magic show where they want to keep you focused on the right hand so you dont see what the left hand is doing.  Corps are raping the US and laughing all the way to the bank with their profits that certainly not being reinvested here at home.

[billy_56081]

Well the bill is going to pass in Wisconsin and Ohio. What will the parasites say when it works and others start to follow. I work around both union and non union shops. The difference in the quality of the work and the productivity in a non union shop verses a union shop is huge. I can tell which places are union when I walk in the door. Nothing but a bunch of lazy slobs who work harder at getting out of work, than they do working. The more seniority they have, the more they make and less they do.

[Cabin4]

Scoot,
The devil is in the detail on that. First, forget the 2/3 becasue thats bogus. So lets just focus on the problem regardless of % of who pays or does not. The ones that are not paying, is they most likly have been forced to off-shore jobs, manufacturing and the sale of thier goods in foriegn markets. So why should they pay?? They are pay tax in those countries and markets they are operating in. The US tax code system forced them to off shore and then guys like you wonder why they pay no tax!!! Besides, if they are buying and selling in the US, they are paying tax at the state and local level and in thier trading with other US firms in the price they pay for the goods & services. You want to bring an environment of on-shoring jobs, lower the tax so companies can come back here and compete in foriegn markets. You cannot produce a TV in the states for 2 times what it cost to produce it in China and then expect the consumer to buy it when they can buy the one sitting onm the shelf next to it for 1/2 the price. It don;t work.

[billy_56081]

Exactly cabin, the unions have driven up the labor costs of American produced goods while they drove down productivity by protecting and promoting the slackers. At the same time the liberal parasite politicians levied taxes upon the producers to make it a double whammy. The lazy parasite class in America has burdened the economy to such an extent that we are no longer able to compete. What is happening in Wisconsin and Ohio is the new administrations are trying to save what is left and start repairing the damage that has been done. The parasite class cannot comprehend that they have killed the goose that laid the golden eggs.

[Buckskin]

Wisconsin is already a tax hell, and Walker ran on not raising taxes and getting this budget deficit under control.  Fact is that is why he got elected. He has the votes to break collective bargaining so there is no reason to deal with the left on this, and he WILL get it passed.  And fact is that most of the people that voted for him still feel that way.  Why don't you do a poll on that, what the people that voted for him want.  In reality that is all that matters.  Nothing he does will ever make you lefty loons happy, so who cares what they think and what which side of a poll they are on they are irrelivant until their next vote, and even then their vote always goes to they donkeys.

[mirage1988]

Scoot and TM-
Do not the INDIVIDUALS that make up a corporation already pay taxes on their income? Why is it that you feel they should be taxed twice? Maybe that is why they are moving the jobs offshore......

[billy_56081]

Well said mirage, I think the parasite class is under the impression is that these taxes levied upon a corporation do not effect the end price of the product they produce.