Democratic senators bail ship

[Cabin4]

Its 3 billion. And yes those assets are not material in the equation because they are not cash. Yes, why should state employee pensions and other type of savings be guaranteed unlike us in the private sector? (by the tax payers). Yes, 8 years of Doyle and his cronies financial mismanagement of state funds meant something. Yes, massive over spending does impact the finances. So what’s your point TM? the tax payers just have to keep paying and paying and paying more, while the union workers just continue to get more. How is that fair? You want to fix this for state union workers in the future in other states, demand for a balanced budget at both state and federal level. Get the feds off the backs of the states with their state level mandates. It’s the only way to fix it. Lower corp tax at the federal level which IS chasing real jobs off shore. In the meantime, the guy that drives truck for small local outfit who makes $15 an hour, with no pension and minimal HC can't afford to pay more taxes so some state level union snow plow driver can make double what he makes, great pension and HC... When is it time in your mind that these state union employees start feeling the same level of pain?

[Buckskin]

This post started with the donkeys leaving the state and abandoning their duty as elected officials.  And they are still gone, and 6 of them are being recalled.  Wait until they are recalled and the Republicans have full control, and the Donkeys can leave for good...

[Buckskin]

TM7,

AGAIN. How come you won't address the question about the debt in this country??? And tell me how YOUR president is doing for you since he is in the hip pocket of unions and willing to spend trillions more than we can handle, IMO.  But I'm sure you think that we're flush with assets and nothing to worry about....

[Cabin4]

Buckskin, Whats wrong with you! Don;t you understand that you and the rest of us non-union non federal employees exsists for what the state worker unions and federal employees want? Its not about free markets and capitolisam anymore. Its all about the elite politicians and thier union and federal workers.

[scootrd]

All, I understand this is a bit off topic and at the fed level , But I post here to support the position what we are experiencing now is a shift in this country at all levels of Govt , and whats going on in Wisconsin is a reflection of this shift Its nothing but a big business power grab and has nothing to do with seriously balancing budgets either at state or Fed levels. Corporate wants unbridled controls , no oversight , all the perks , none of the costs , taxes etc.. and shift the burden to the working class .  - JMHO

What Wisconsin is experiencing is this shift similar on a smaller scale.
If Wisconsin wanted to balance their budget they could do so today since unions already agreed to the fiscal demands. This is nothing but a hold out to bash unions and pave the way at all levels of Govt for similar quid pro qou's  like the vote that just took place last week in DC with regards to this vote below. 
-------------------------------------------------------------->
House Republicans voted yesterday to protect corporate welfare for big oil companies while cutting to the bone programs average Americans depend on. While the U.S. House of Representatives was working on a stopgap funding bill to avert a government shutdown, House Democrats offered a motion that would have taken away tax subsidies from the five largest oil companies, saving tens of billions of taxpayer dollars. The motion was defeated with every Republican voting against it. (no one is serious about balancing any budgets)

Two weeks ago a similar vote that would have saved $53 billion in taxpayer funds, taking it away from the biggest oil companies, was also defeated basically along party lines.

The former CEO of Shell Oil, John Hoffmeister, recently said, "Big Oil doesn't need subsidies in the face of sustained high oil prices." (so why the vote to keep them alive) The largest oil companies, between 2005 and 2009, have made a combined 485 billion dollars in profits. That's almost half a Trillion dollars.

Who wants to reduce the deficit? Who wants to save taxpayer dollars? Think about that the next time you fill up your car. You're paying a lot more than just the price at the pump.

AND BUCKSKIN IT WASNT OBAMA ADMIN THAT VOTED LAST WEEK AND ALLOWED THIS TO HAPPEN (NOT THAT THEY ARE ANY BETTER) . BUT HERE'S ONE OF YOUR NATIONAL DEBT ITEMS. REPUBLICANS ALLOWING YOUR TAX DOLLARS TO BE SPENT ON CORPORATE GIVEAWAYS.
CRONYISM AT IT'S WORST!!
 
I stand with the Labor and the unions in Wisconsin.

[Buckskin]

I stand with the Labor and the unions in Wisconsin.

Well then I guess you will fall with them also... Because their days are finally numbered.  Maybe you should go over and preach this stuff in Michigan...  Where labor unions destroyed Detriot and the surrounding areas.  They finally get it over there, but to late...

What do you do for a living Scooter?? 

[Buckskin]

TM7,

AGAIN. How come you won't address the question about the debt in this country??? And tell me how YOUR president is doing for you since he is in the hip pocket of unions and willing to spend trillions more than we can handle, IMO.  But I'm sure you think that we're flush with assets and nothing to worry about....

Huh.?.we're talking about Wisconsin here. But  Start a thread. I'll be happy to help you understand our national debt problem. It stems from corruption and theft, one party rule with two wings, improper taxation, The Fed, extreme defense spending and no oversight, deregulation, and treason.....


~~~~~


Nahh, I've pretty much had my fill of your liberal idealology.  The demonstrations are running a little thin lately in Madion, maybe you could venture up there and show your support.  Bang on a drum for a while with the college kids, smoke a little weed in the bathroom of the capital. It'll be just like the 60's.  Chanting down with corporate greed, on with free love or whatever you guys were into back then...
Scootrd...it was also Hitler and Mussolini that embraced unbridled corporatism..aka 'Fascism', too.

TM7

[Buckskin]

Hopefully science will one day find a cure for the DRD4 defect found in you guys.  I understand that you can't help yourself from being liberal, but you must understand that you cannot implant these beliefs in rational, normal people.  It's kind of like trying to talk someone into their hair changing colors...

Don't worry science is on it and help is on the way, so hang in their guys.  And in the meantime, it would help a lot if you would stay away from the voting booths.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/10/101027161452.htm

[scootrd]

Hopefully science will one day find a cure for the DRD4 defect found in you guys.  I understand that you can't help yourself from being liberal, but you must understand that you cannot implant these beliefs in rational, normal people.  It's kind of like trying to talk someone into their hair changing colors...

Don't worry science is on it and help is on the way, so hang in their guys.  And in the meantime, it would help a lot if you would stay away from the voting booths.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/10/101027161452.htm

You mean the science where they are rewriting American history and evolution in Texas Textbooks ie:
The Board removed Thomas Jefferson from the Texas curriculum's world history standards on Enlightenment thinking, “replacing him with religious right icon John Calvin.” ..

Great cant wait to read the fictional account of our American history and sciences in Texas paperback.   

Interesting enough most mainstream folks who claim Republican , independent ,  democrat , progressive or whatever when polled most all find themselves smack dab in the middle. Yes there are far left and far right but most folks are right smack dab in the middle.

Hopefully post 494 Helped clear some things up for ya. Govt is controlled by Big corps and special interests , it's not an obama , or bush , and any other presidential admin thing. They all talk a good game and none of them have the working stiffs interests at heart and none of them are serious about balancing a budget at any level of Govt. Last weeks vote is typical proof , I expect no less from DC or the Wisconsins of the world as long as big corporate bought and paid for puppets are running the show.

So feel free to blindly tow a party line. I myself will continue to question all.

I stand with the Labor and the unions in Wisconsin.

[Buckskin]

Ohhh Lord,  a liberal preaching about changing our history... Ha what a joke.

Coming from the lefties who want to outlaw the pledge of allegiance from schools, the national anthem from sporting events, and the words In God We Trust on our currency...

Next you are going to sell me the line about your buddies not wanting to take our guns away... 

You stand with then unions, I will stand with the rest of the people who create products, jobs, GDP, etc, who keep the morals, integrity and values that our country was based on.

Scoot, you never did say what union you belong to.

[scootrd]

Ohhh Lord,  a liberal preaching about changing our history... Ha what a joke.
Coming from the lefties who want to outlaw the pledge of allegiance (dont want pledge outlawed) from schools( I Disagree with outlawing national anthem ), the national anthem from sporting events, and the words In God We Trust on our currency (dont ever want to see in God we trust stricken...
Next you are going to sell me the line about your buddies not wanting to take our guns away...  dont want our guns taken away

You stand with then unions, I will stand with the rest of the people who create products, jobs, GDP, etc, who keep the morals, integrity and values that our country was based on. What a bogus statement  - you make the inference because I don't stand on your side of the debate and disagree with the direction this Nation is heading in with regards to corporate rule and influence , the outsourcing of American jobs overseas etc.. I am somehow  immoral , have no integrity, and do not care for the values our nation holds dearly.
Guess all my years, my fathers years , and my grandfathers years of military service defending this great Nation was for naught.  My family has bled for this country and love it dearly . We have defended this Nation for generations so you and I both would have the right to believe and voice our differing opinions. Perhaps my family and I should also stop living a moral christian life.

Of course I have seen this all before , attack the character of someone,  take a philosophical debate of issues and turn it into a character assassination, rather than debate the issues on their merit.  You should be ashamed of yourself.
Haec protegimus "This we defend"

You stand with then unions, I will stand with the rest of the people who create products, jobs, GDP, etc, who keep the morals, integrity and values that our country was based on. yeah hows that going for ya ? Better yet , lets ask Boehner ? http://whenarethejobs.com/ 60 days in office and still not one jobs bill put forth by republicans. Duped again
Scoot, you never did say what union you belong to. Don't belong to a union .

[mirage1988]

Maybe its because the republicans realize it is not their job to "create jobs"! Private sector growth is what creates jobs, not gov'ts ponzi scheme! Jobs bill- get real.

[Buckskin]

You stand with then unions, I will stand with the rest of the people who create products, jobs, GDP, etc, who keep the morals, integrity and values that our country was based on. What a bogus statement  - you make the inference because I don't stand on your side of the debate and disagree with the direction this Nation is heading in with regards to corporate rule and influence , the outsourcing of American jobs overseas etc.. I am somehow  immoral , have no integrity, and do not care for the values our nation holds dearly.
Guess all my years, my fathers years , and my grandfathers years of military service defending this great Nation was for naught.  My family has bled for this country and love it dearly . We have defended this Nation for generations so you and I both would have the right to believe and voice our differing opinions. Perhaps my family and I should also stop living a moral christian life.

Of course I have seen this all before , attack the character of someone,  take a philosophical debate of issues and turn it into a character assassination, rather than debate the issues on their merit.  You should be ashamed of yourself.
Haec protegimus "This we defend"

Don't put words in my mouth! I didn't say anything about you, especially if you don't actually belong in a union... Unions are an embarrassment to this country and tearing it apart from the inside out.  They were created long ago to prevent child labor and unfair working conditions, etc, obsolete... I put this blurb in another post but it's relates here.

I just found out last night that 27 of the teachers in our school district are applying for retirement since the Walker proposal. Usually 5-7 per year.  These "its just about the kids" losers want to stick it to the district and taxpayers.  One math teacher walked off his job saying put all my built up sick leave toward the rest of the year, I'm done...  Good riddance to him and all of the rest of the losers who are just there to take advantage of they system.  We will have better teachers with new ideas, and who will make less money to boot...  There is usually 200 apps for teaching positions around here, I think we will make due....

[Cabin4]

I'm tired of hearing these public school teachers say "its about the kids". The majority could care less about the kids. Most of them are adults that act like kids themselves. They are just out for themselves.

[billy_56081]

Well it won't be long and the Union parasites dominoes will start to topple. Nothing is going to stop these votes and they are going to be against the union parasites. We will see who and what is right.

[Cabin4]

Well it won't be long and the Union parasites dominoes will start to topple. Nothing is going to stop these votes and they are going to be against the union parasites. We will see who and what is right.

The state worker unions on the tax payer.

[Lost Farmboy]

The unions cut their own throats when they supported NFTA and GAT.  They supported Bill Clinton all the way.  With all the jobs that went overseas, they don't have enough of us left to feed off of.

[ironglow]

  ...And they supported Bill Clinton..even when he awarded China a "Most Favored Nation" trading status.!  One may rightly ask of Clinton;  "What did he do that for" ?
   Answer is simple, he did it for a few million dollars donated to the Clinton library ..

[nw_hunter]

 Not sure how true this is............."But"

I hear one of the Big gun makers is coming out with a new pistol in honor of Obama. It will be named the “Union Worker”.

It won't work, and you can't fire it

[powderman]

Not sure how true this is............."But"

I hear one of the Big gun makers is coming out with a new pistol in honor of Obama. It will be named the “Union Worker”.

It won't work, and you can't fire it

HEH. Good one, bet it'll be made in china too. POWDERMAN. 

[Cabin4]

Not sure how true this is............."But"

I hear one of the Big gun makers is coming out with a new pistol in honor of Obama. It will be named the “Union Worker”.

It won't work, and you can't fire it

 HUh..Likely a Cerebus Capital Management holding...now controlling much of USA ammo and gun manufacturering....Dan Qyale a principle exec and other rightys,,,but huge Soros


HEH. Good one, bet it'll be made in china too. POWDERMAN. 

.
 HUh.. ..Likely a Cerebus Capital Management holding...now controlling much of USA ammo and gun manufacturering....Dan Qyale a principle exec and other rightys,,,but huge quietly Soros is a big owner of Cerebus....mmm.    Anyway, Isn't gun manufacture in the USA primarily done by union shops...?

..TM7
.

So what do you have against Union shops in the private sector TM?

[ironglow]

Not sure how true this is............."But"

I hear one of the Big gun makers is coming out with a new pistol in honor of Obama. It will be named the “Union Worker”.

It won't work, and you can't fire it

HEH. Good one, bet it'll be made in china too. POWDERMAN. 

  Right Powderman;
  And not only that..it trashes and damages out any firing range or hunting field where it shows up !   

[Cabin4]

NO. As I wrote earlier, the concept of collective barganing in the public sector is corrupt, unethical and immoral. I could care less what unions have in the private sector. If they want run thier employer into the ground, no skin off the tax payer. They can kill each other for all I care. Another product will be available at a competitive cost to the consumer.

[guzzijohn]

Quote from Cabin4:

NO. As I wrote earlier, the concept of collective barganing in the public sector is corrupt, unethical and immoral. I could care less what unions have in the private sector. If they want run thier employer into the ground, no skin off the tax payer.

This starts into a lot of grey areas quickly. Many private business, especially aircraft, arms, vehicles , etc. have mega government contracts (Boeing's new tanker deal for example), all taxpayer money. What about the union's in those places?
GuzzIJohn

[XD40SC]

You can just imagine what Hitler, Mussolini, Mao, Stalin, etc.
I just thought of another reason why these men are despicable. Without them Fox news would have no references. lol

[SHOOTALL]

Hum , the difference in govt. workers in a union and private sector workers in a union is in the private sec. they bargin with owners who protect their wealth and profit. In the govt sec. they bargin with people who can say TAX more because they THINK they have an endless supply of funds . Add a closed shop law and it burdens the private sec more also.
Second when private business bargin they don't do so with govt. Also when govt. contracts with a company they don't do so with a union . If the contract can be met its the owners that pay not the union. To call it gray is silly really as they have little to do with each other .

[SHOOTALL]

You can just imagine what Hitler, Mussolini, Mao, Stalin, etc.
I just thought of another reason why these men are despicable. Without them Fox news would have no references. lol

with out the progressives Fox News wouldn't need qoutes 

[teamnelson]

[Buckskin]

Here is another reason why collective bargaining must be stopped.  If this isn't robbing the taxpayer I don't know what is:

GREEN BAY - The Green Bay School Board has approved a large number of retirement requests from teachers and administrators.

With the future of the state budget uncertain, 140 teachers and 15 administrators asked to join the emeritus program. That works out to about 1 out of every 12 teachers in the district.

The emeritus program gives one full year's salary paid over three years. That is in addition to pension benefits. In return, the retiree provides 10 days of service to the district each year during that time. The emeritus program is something that has been negotiated into the teachers' contract through collective bargaining.

Last year 26 teachers and staff members applied for the program.

Several other area school districts (many who do not have the emeritus program) have reported rises in retirement filings as well.

Hogs at the the feeder....

[Cabin4]

A real operating profit & loss business (real revenue from product and or service with costs to run the business)can never be in a subsody mode from the government. The money they make is their money, not the governments. The government is subsodized by the tax paying entities.

Now, if we (tax payers) bail them out, then that is differant.