Democratic senators bail ship

[scootrd]

Highways are built by private contractors who are paid by fuel taxes. So again the PRIVATE sector is the ones providing the jobs. The government is only the parasitic regulator.

what a ridiculous statement.

The Federal-Aid Highway Act of 1954 authorized $175 million a year for the Interstate System, with a Federal-State matching ratio of 60-40.  The increased Federal share reflected the common understanding that the Interstate System is vitally important to national goals.   

When the program took shape in the Federal-Aid Highway Act of 1956, it differed in some ways from the President's proposal, particularly with regard to the source of funding for the program, but Congress retained the Federal-State matching share of 90-10 as a reflection of the Interstate Construction Program's importance to national goals. (In the western States with large amounts of untaxed public land, the Federal share could be increased to 95 percent.)

Your policies of Govt at work stimulating the economy HIRING private sector and creating Jobs.  Bubble of denial

[billy_56081]

So private contractors are not the ones building the highways? Wow I never knew those guys were government workers.

[Cabin4]

Scoot,
Billy is right. Tax dollars (state or federal) are used to directly or indirectly pay private contractors to build our road infrastructure. The federal tax dollars that are allocated to the states, originates from the states to begin with. The Feds just take it and work thier black majic and convert $1.00 into 30 cents and decide who gets how much and when they get it.

[jimster]

Ya, that's the key, it's our tax money that rebuilds the roads, and there is of course lots of Union road crews out this way.
Pretty poor excuse for what we call "job creation"...always seems anything the government creates is from our tax dollars.

A private job is not held up by tax dollars, it holds it's ownself up and pays taxes in to the system at all levels of government.  It does not exist because of government, or because it's gets my tax money to operate. Period. Any job that is created by our tax dollars is nothing but a ponzy scheme. The left wings idea of government creating jobs is paying taxes, so someone else gets paid, so someone else (unions) can get paid, so someone in politics can get paid.  Nice little circle.  My taxes for roads go to union road crews in this area, union takes their money, gets people elected (sometimes, this last time no) and then they get a stimulus package, paid for by me.  And I get someone telling me this is job creation.    Well...I guess we best get busy and see if my taxes can employ a few million people here on the road crews because there are no jobs here anymore, except road crews I guess.  So using the left wing job creation equation...everyone in Michigan needs to get a job held up by tax payers made by the government...gee, somehow my money flow map tells me there is no real money, except from that private guy that paints houses...who seems to be holding up every level of government plus the unions...and they all wonder why they all ran out of HIS money.  Go figure....

There is no such thing as government creating a job...in the private sector. They can however make it very difficult. The trick is to get people to  realize when the government runs the painter out of the state because of regulations and taxes...that there never was any other money to be had.  Doesn't do much good to hire a road worker to fix the economy, the painter paid that bill too. 

 



 
 
 

[carbineman]

Scoot still waiting to hear what labor you are standing with, the public unionized laborers or the private unionized laborers, that the public unionized laborers are trying to run out of their jobs?

It's a bogus argument , your trying to draw an artificial line to separate Labor. and pit labor against labor. The facts are The Walkers of the world are in the back pockets of the corps. He tried this before earlier in his career. We saw how well that worked out saved $0 ... wait let me repeat that ZERO dollars. This is nothing more than a power grab for Big business against All organized Labor !!!

I stand with Labor

First off, I'm not trying to do any such thing, and you can't show me where "I" have done such. Only reporting on what is happening. I simply can't understand what you are thinking to issue such a statement.

The fact is the public unionized labor is pitting themselves against the private unionized labor by trying to boycott/run them out of business. I had nothing to do with it. I'm only reporting the fact. It is there to see, all you have to do is read it.

I have several friends in the Milwaukee Metro area that really credit Walker with doing many good things to save the county and  liberals just hated Walker when he was there, as he rained on their gravy train parade and got rid of Tom Ament to boot. From the purch you sit on you can't even be sure what is actually happening in Wisconsin. I have been a resident of Wisconsin for my life and your misguided view of what is happening here is just that, misguided.

And as far as all organized labor goes, the public sector should have none period. Hopefully Walker and the legislature will get us there.

And again like the Halfrican said, elections mean something...............and your side lost!

[scootrd]

I disagree -
Government policies support the creation of private sector jobs. In many instances, GOVERNMENT is the catalyst.
In many cases, it’s government that HIRES the private sector!!

All you heard from Republican is please vote us back in, we learned our lesson , We will create Jobs Bills and help stimulate the ecomomy. BS . All they have done is give tax breaks to their cronies , who if you think are going to invest in American Job creation your living in lala land. Thanks for the tax breaks Mr. Walker, now lets continue to outsource.

Truth is The government is the biggest employer in the United States — staffing the military, the postal service, fire stations, schools, museums, the regulatory agencies, the FBI, the National Institutes of Health, parks and numerous other institutions. The government creates jobs both directly, by hiring people into the federal and state workforces, and indirectly, by creating aggregate demand and letting private businesses cater to those additional dollars.

To say, “it is private business — not government — that creates jobs.”is ridiculous a job is created when a person is hired and paid for his/her work. It does not matter in the grand scheme of things if this person works for the private or public sector.”

The Manhattan project created the nuclear industries.


again I ask

http://www.whenarethejobs.com/

[scootrd]

And again like the Halfrican said, elections mean something...............and your side lost!

Apparently they don't when the governor of Michigan can gain the power to remove "Elected" city and Town officials from office and put in place a private sector CZAR of his own choosing who is allowed to take control of everything.
Apparently the Gov. of Michigan didn't get the message. 

[DDZ]

An extreme case of socialism would be where all jobs are government created. Also an economy that has a majority of government created jobs is a poor economy. 
 
Government can not inject money into the economy without first taking it out of the economy. Government created jobs sound great, but only half of the equation is looked at. Its the half where government puts money into the economy's right pocket. Where does government get this money from? It borrows it and takes it from the economy's left pocket. No worth is added to the economy. The pie is sliced different, but its still the same sized pie.

What is ridiculous, is that so many people think that government created jobs are a good thing for the economy. They add no value what so ever.   

[billy_56081]

I disagree -
Government policies support the creation of private sector jobs. In many instances, GOVERNMENT is the catalyst.
In many cases, it’s government that HIRES the private sector!!

All you heard from Republican is please vote us back in, we learned our lesson , We will create Jobs Bills and help stimulate the ecomomy. BS . All they have done is give tax breaks to their cronies , who if you think are going to invest in American Job creation your living in lala land. Thanks for the tax breaks Mr. Walker, now lets continue to outsource.

Truth is The government is the biggest employer in the United States — staffing the military, the postal service, fire stations, schools, museums, the regulatory agencies, the FBI, the National Institutes of Health, parks and numerous other institutions. The government creates jobs both directly, by hiring people into the federal and state workforces, and indirectly, by creating aggregate demand and letting private businesses cater to those additional dollars.

To say, “it is private business — not government — that creates jobs.”is ridiculous a job is created when a person is hired and paid for his/her work. It does not matter in the grand scheme of things if this person works for the private or public sector.”

The Manhattan project created the nuclear industries.


again I ask

http://www.whenarethejobs.com/

And not ONE of those jobs pays real taxes into the economy of the United States of America. Now yes there are some public jobs that are NEEDS, problem is, most of the parasites do not know what a NEED is compared to a WANT.

[scootrd]

What is ridiculous, is that so many people think that government created jobs are a good thing for the economy. They add no value what so ever.   

Hmm ..ok I'll bite how does one assess value?

Does a private sector admin person bring more value than a public sector social worker who attends to the needs of abused children?

Does investment in NASA R&D which propels spinoffs of many many private sector companies bring value to America ?

Does providing 40 billion dollars of our tax money to Mobil bring value to us at the Pump ? wait I'll answer this one  - nope

Does states providing additional tax breaks to companies that already pay 0 dollars in U.S taxes and invest in overseas economies and hire outsourced cheap labor  to enhance only their profit margins bring additional value to america?  - wait I'll answer this one , yep to the top 2% for sure
 
The fact is (at least in my opinion which differs from other on this thread) Both private and public sector jobs can bring value. Jobs are Jobs. does their need to be balance ? sure . I'm not arguing their shouldn't. Should public sector contribute to their own HC and persons ... sure ..no argument here. But to say public sector jobs bring now value is not a truth.

But I guess it all how you decide to define value I guess.

[Cabin4]

I disagree -
Government policies support the creation of private sector jobs. In many instances, GOVERNMENT is the catalyst.
In many cases, it’s government that HIRES the private sector!!

All you heard from Republican is please vote us back in, we learned our lesson , We will create Jobs Bills and help stimulate the ecomomy. BS . All they have done is give tax breaks to their cronies , who if you think are going to invest in American Job creation your living in lala land. Thanks for the tax breaks Mr. Walker, now lets continue to outsource.

Truth is The government is the biggest employer in the United States — staffing the military, the postal service, fire stations, schools, museums, the regulatory agencies, the FBI, the National Institutes of Health, parks and numerous other institutions. The government creates jobs both directly, by hiring people into the federal and state workforces, and indirectly, by creating aggregate demand and letting private businesses cater to those additional dollars.

To say, “it is private business — not government — that creates jobs.”is ridiculous a job is created when a person is hired and paid for his/her work. It does not matter in the grand scheme of things if this person works for the private or public sector.”

The Manhattan project created the nuclear industries.


again I ask

http://www.whenarethejobs.com/

Government cannot create a real job it can only make a fake one by taking money from real GDP producers and redirecting it to fake jobs. Government cannot exists without real GDP and pull in from goods production and exports/trade done in the private sector. Government can have a huge impact because it is a giant spender, of tax collected from real GDP. In order to have growth in the real GDP sector, you must have private investment from real wealth. Over taxing robs the private sector of investment capitol and thus eventually will impact real GDP job sectors. That is what we have going today. Over government spending, over taxing and thus under investment in the private sector and thus a loss of real jobs. Eventually all the over spending and over taxing rolls-up in a suppression of private sector investment which results in a loss of real jobs and of course a reduction in tax collection. The cycles continues.

You needed an economics 101 lesson. But I feel it will go in one ear and out the other. Big government proponants who are collecting from the government will never agree with the basics of economics and real job creation. To many people who think like you have ben running the country and messing it up. Most are also collecting from the over taxing and over spending in some way. So they never want to see it change.

[scootrd]

Government cannot create a real job it can only make a fake one.... You need an economics 101 lesson.

A fake job ? silly.

Perhaps You need an understanding of how to define a Job.
are you unemployed ?
are your working ?
Are you being paid?
Aare you providing for your family?
Then you have a JOB. Public or private.

Lets see the dictionary definition of a Job  -
occupation: the principal activity in your life that you do to earn money.
interesting it doesn't make a distinction of a public fake job where I assume one earns fake money to buy fake food to feed ones family , and a private real one where I assume you earn real money to  to buy real food to feed your family. 

JOBS ARE JOBS.

[billy_56081]

Government cannot create a real job it can only make a fake one.... You need an economics 101 lesson.

A fake job ? silly.

Perhaps You need an understanding of how to define a Job.
are you unemployed ?
are your working ?
Are you being paid?
Aare you providing for your family?
Then you have a JOB. Public or private.

JOBS ARE JOBS.

No scoot, jobs are not jobs. I know it is very hard to understand, but government jobs are parasitic upon the jobs that actually produce a durable good. The government has NO money of its own, only what it TAKES from others that produce something. Public sector jobs pay no REAL taxes, they only return a portion of the tax dollars that were taken from the producers. So that being said, public sector employees pay NO taxes.

[Cabin4]

Yes FAKE Scoot in the context of this discussion thread. It is a fake job for those jobs you have defined. There is nothing silly here Scoot. This is real. You cannot tax the hell out of people and create a bunch of jobs from tax collection and make jobs for people working for the state and expect any down stream economic net gain. IT DONT HAPPEN. It is a net loss to the economy.

Are there government services being performed by these workers? yes. Are they producing a product? NO. Is the service they perform being exported? NO. Is the service they perform adding value to a product that was produced? NO. Is the service they perform bring profit in to the private sector? NO.

NO on these=NO real real GDP job.

Dream all you want.

[Gary G]

I disagree -
Government policies support the creation of private sector jobs. In many instances, GOVERNMENT is the catalyst.
In many cases, it’s government that HIRES the private sector!!
And where does the money come from? It can only come from the private sector. So that is money that cannot be used as capital for business to expand and hire people.

All you heard from Republican is please vote us back in, we learned our lesson , We will create Jobs Bills and help stimulate the ecomomy. BS . All they have done is give tax breaks to their cronies , who if you think are going to invest in American Job creation your living in lala land. Thanks for the tax breaks Mr. Walker, now lets continue to outsource.
Taxes are a drag on the economy. It is money that cannot be spent on other things, therefore the economy suffers. To cut taxes without cutting spending is not prudent. A huge deficit is also a drag on the economy as government borrowing crowds out private borrowing.

Truth is The government is the biggest employer in the United States — staffing the military, the postal service, fire stations, schools, museums, the regulatory agencies, the FBI, the National Institutes of Health, parks and numerous other institutions. The government creates jobs both directly, by hiring people into the federal and state workforces, and indirectly, by creating aggregate demand and letting private businesses cater to those additional dollars.
The government could not hire anyone without confiscating the wealth of many private sector workers. That money might has been used for more beneficial things. We will never know.

To say, “it is private business — not government — that creates jobs.”is ridiculous a job is created when a person is hired and paid for his/her work. It does not matter in the grand scheme of things if this person works for the private or public sector.”
Private sector workers are paid because they produce something of value for their employer that is wanted by other people.  Government jobs are non-producers and only parasitic as they take capital away from the producers.

The Manhattan project created the nuclear industries.


again I ask

http://www.whenarethejobs.com/
They are in free-market countries where the government and federal reserve are not destroying the wealth generators with debt and over regulation.

A good example would be Singapore and Haiti. Singapore had no natural resources, but was free to pursue business without government encumberment. Haiti was the opposite. While they both started in about the same shape after WWII, look at them today.

Economics lesson over for today scootrd.

[scootrd]

you guys crack me up.

Jobs are Jobs ,
If your being paid and earning your way and not on the unemployment ranks , You have a Job. Public or Private.
One of the best ways to stimulate this economy is for GOVT to invest in our infrastructure and shovel ready projects. 
I need to tell all the GS friends I know who work in partnership  with Raytheon they really don't have Job and so we are going to start paying them with monopoly money.

But hey no worries Republicans in Missouri will make up for any Public sector monies layouts by lowering the minimum wage , this should help those private sector companies. Of course it will probably displace a majority of folks who were just scraping by as it was. But hey who cares think of the monies Business will save , they will be able to create more call centers in India.  How better to balance a budget , give a tax break to a corp and go after a waitress.

Spin this whole thread anyway you want , this is all a power grab under the guise and balancing budgets, and it's being done on the backs of the middle class once again.

[billy_56081]

Scoot, answer this simple question. Where does the money paid to public sector employees come from?

[Gary G]

The minimum wage causes unemployment, mainly with young people. Employers sometimes would hire another worker if the cost was a little less, when it may not profitable at the current wage. A young unemployed person might be more happy with that than not working at all and they would be getting work experience that would help them later. Minimum wage laws take that choice away from them.

Lesson over for sure this time scootrd.

[Cabin4]

you guys crack me up.

Jobs are Jobs ,
If your being paid and earning your way and not on the unemployment ranks , You have a Job. Public or Private.
One of the best ways to stimulate this economy is for GOVT to invest in our infrastructure and shovel ready projects. 

But hey no worries Republicans in Missouri are now trying to lower the minimum wage , this should help those private sector companies. Of course it will probably displace a majority of folks who were just scraping by as it was. But hey who cares think of the monies Business will save , they will be able to create more call centers in India.

If all jobs are created equal Scoot, then why not raise taxes more and continue making jobs working for the state? You know why this has never happened, because even the big government liberals know that in the end, you have to have GDP. Why do you think Obamas $1trillion spending bill was called a "Stimulus"? Becasue its all fake jobs to put people to work and bridge the gap to a later period of real recovery.

Keep laughing. Its getting sad to see someone go to the wall and double down on anti-econ 101 as the solution to our economic woes.

[scootrd]

The minimum wage causes unemployment, mainly with young people. Employers sometimes would hire another worker if the cost was a little less, when it may not profitable at the current wage. A young unemployed person might be more happy with that than not working at all and they would be getting work experience that would help them later. Minimum wage laws take that choice away from them.

Lesson over for sure this time scootrd.

You go for it ..try to live of minimum wage in this country. Lets face it the country has become I got mine Jack , to heck with the rest of ya. (the problem is they are quickly learning the rest of us are the majority and were tired of taking it.

And I fully expect if you guys ever get laid off , stick to your morals and don't accept a fake public sector Job. Remember it will be Far better to feed your family through soup kitchens and rely on charity to house you. of course you could always take that lowered minimum wage job in Missouri. 

Fake jobs - how ridiculously silly

The far right Republican nut jobs are going to pay a very high political price for their over reach very soon.

[billy_56081]

Avoiding the question scoot?

Oh and BTW the recall petition has run out of steam with only a piddling 22% of the signatures needed. Hey only 78% more needed.

[Cabin4]

Avoiding the question scoot?

Avoiding generally accepted principals of economics and reality in general is more like it.

[DDZ]

You needed an economics 101 lesson. But I feel it will go in one ear and out the other.
[/quote]

That is what I was thinking.
 
Keynesian economics do not work, but people continue to insist they do. I guess its part of the reason we are in the mess we are in, and swimming in debt. When we look to government to provide jobs. The nations debt will do nothing but rise.   

[Dixie Dude]

Private industry makes things.  Middle men take it to the retailers.  Retailers sell things.  Consumer buys things.  Money pays retailer for things created and jobs in the stores.  Money goes back from retailer to middle man (wholesaler or distributor).  He pays his labor.  Money goes from middle man back to producer, who pays his labor and materials to make things.  So far government hasn't done anything.  Government taxes producers, wholesalers and distributors, retailers and consumers.  Government uses money to provide military, police, build and maintain roads, bridges, and canals.  No where should government provide welfare, social security, food stamps, bureaucratic jobs.  All are parasites.  Nasa and the military with r & d spending did and will spawn jobs.  Transfer payments do not provide jobs except bloated burearcracy.  I am against foreign aid except in earthquakes and natural disasters.  We didn't have federal welfare in the 1950's and did fine.   Government is a leach the private economic circle and should only provide that which private industry doesn't such as roads.   

[jimster]

Governmnet, directly or indirectly, is the biggest employer around.

Obviously since the government is bankrupt and so are most all the states, the above does not work? Or do you need another decade to see this method pan out?     

I do believe you just made everyones point....for them. 

Now let's try it another way...let's shrink government, get them out of the "job creation" business, and let the private sector come back.  It's only fair for us to try something else after a few decades of "your" way.

The private sector holds up all levels of government, and the unions.  It does me no good to pay taxes for job creation.  Obviously, the methods of government creating jobs has failed miserably and grown our government into a fat beast. 

Our last governor was real big on state government creating jobs...Michigan is in the crapper now from that, cause there was nobody in the private sector left to pay for those..."government jobs"

I guess we don't need anymore advice in this state from people who think like that. They must go now.

[Gary G]

Keynesian economics do not work, but people continue to insist they do. I guess its part of the reason we are in the mess we are in, and swimming in debt. When we look to government to provide jobs. The nations debt will do nothing but rise.   

And at some point foreigners will quit buying that debt. It is already happening. Then the Federal Reserve will print money to buy our own debt. That too is already happening. That cannot continue without having a currency crisis. Therefore the debt must cease growing which means austerity and folks crying because they are not getting their government bread, or else the end comes with total dollar destruction.

The government is a parasite. It only can live at the expense of the people. When the parasite outgrows the host and sucks all the blood out, they both die.

[Buckskin]

Well I'm glad to see this topic still rolling along since my fishing trip!  Unfortunately some here still think that government controlling our lives is the answer to prosperity.

A job may be a job to the person holding it, but some jobs are not needed.  In the private sector this waste is eliminated, in the public sector these people sit in cubes, hold a shovel, or what ever and ride it out to retirement.  There are thousands of people retiring early in the public sector this year (yeah!!), we will see how many are replaced. Probably won't even notice they are gone.  Just like the furlough days that everyone was up in arms about, not even a hiccup...

You liberals really need to stop preaching this class envy thing, it's not helping anything.  There is so much opportunity in this country for anyone who as the initiative to try and make something for themselves.  And instead of allowing the ones who actually did enjoy their success, all I hear from you libs is "have and have nots".... Embarrassing.  Instead the libs encourage people to be dependant upon government for everything, whether it's a job, food stamps, bailing out a mortgage that they couldn't afford in the first place, healthcare,  tax rebates (even though the never paid any taxes!!!), etc, etc... A generation ago it was common for a person who was having a tough period in their life to pay back the government payments that they received after they got back on their feet.  When is the last time you heard about someone doing that... Instead they just want more so they don't have to find a job.  2 years of unemployment payments? Come on...

[Cabin4]

TM,
It also deepens the debt and our interest payment to service the debt. How does this HELP the economy in the long term? Jobs are continuing to go overseas, unemployment has increased from 6ish% to near 10%ish and our debt to $14 trillion from $7trillion since Obama started this "economic recovery program".


You big government liberals think you can steal money from the tax payers endlessly and create these fake jobs that return nothing to economy and provide no down-stream favorable impacts. Increased government spending in time of a down-turn can only be a “bridge” accross the canyon . At some point it either works or does not work as that bridge. It’s had its time in the limelight and now it is time to slash spending and reduce taxes and give the private sector an opportunity to work us out. And too damn bad if a bunch of worthless government jobs are lost. We’ll get pick-up in the private sector.

[scootrd]

Governmnet, directly or indirectly, is the biggest employer around.  1 out of 7 employed persons derive a paycheck from a government contract or direct employment by the gov in the USA, be it highway system, or lucrative defense contracts (about 53% of the US economy) That's why drastic government cutbacks in programms and gov employment in times of depression or high unemployment only deepens the depression and further wrecks the community and economy.

...TM7

+1
The U.S. Government is the largest employer in the United States, hiring about 2.0 percent of the nation's work force.
For those that claim the Govt doesn't create Jobs .. They are living in a fantasy world and not In touch with reality.
Since some believe the Govt doesnt create Jobs lets just cancel all the defense contracts so the fake jobs will go away. and we can let go 700,000 federal postal workers while were at it.

Aand then of course there are our service men and women themselves  - yep Govt Paychecks FAKE jOBS, gotta go.

Oh wait we can't Cancel the non job creating contracts , if do that , Boehner would lose the additional extra engine contract in Ohio , you know,  the one the military doesn't want.  but hey since they are just fake jobs anyways??

in 2006 ,
NASA Langley, in Hampton, generated $2.3 billion in economic output and 21,000 FAKE jobs in the United States. In Virginia, the economic output of Langley was $1 billion with a FAKE 10,500 jobs created.

 
If you are working and draw a paycheck  , you have a Job irregardless of the sector.
Jobs are Jobs. there is no such thing as a Fake Job.. (unless you are being paid with monopoly money)


I could go on , but why bother , as we all know apparently the GOVT doesn't create Jobs. so silly

[scootrd]

AS PREDICTED , THE FIRST STEPS OF COURT CHALLENGES HAVE BEGUN.

A Wisconsin judge issued an order Friday temporarily blocking implementation of a law that would severely restrict collective bargaining rights for most public employees in the state.

Dane County Circuit Judge Maryann Sumi issued a restraining order that stops publication of the law signed last week by Wisconsin Gov. Scott Governor Walker (R). Halting that procedural step has the effect of blocking the law, which would go into effect once it is formally published.

The judge’s order came after Dane County’s Democratic District Attorney Ismael Ozanne filed suit alleging that a joint committee of the legislature violated the state’s open meeting law when it abruptly called a session to facilitate the law’s passage last week.

The judge’s ruling does not speak to the legal merits of the law but says that the lawsuit over the session has to be completed before the law is allowed to move forward.