Author Topic: Democratic senators bail ship  (Read 60561 times)

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Offline Cabin4

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #870 on: March 26, 2011, 05:46:20 PM »
Scoot, I know you don;t like to answer questions, but when you say you stand with labor, what do you mean? What do you consider "labor"? I know guys that work with their hands in construction, factories, slughter houses and other but its non-union. Do you consider them part of "Labor"?
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Offline scootrd

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #871 on: March 26, 2011, 06:18:45 PM »
Scoot, I know you don;t like to answer questions, but when you say you stand with labor, what do you mean? What do you consider "labor"? I know guys that work with their hands in construction, factories, slughter houses and other but its non-union. Do you consider them part of "Labor"?

C4,
The majority of my family comes from a long line of Blue collar laborers, Construction, heavy Equip operators , truck drivers , electricians, masonry, coal , manufacturing, and the like. Some have union ties , some don't . The majority of the boys through all generations have served our country in one branch of service or the other including myself. 3 made a career of it. 
We have been very fortunate to have 2 teachers in the family (and yes I disagree with them on their benefits and pensions) and yes it gets heated around the dinner tables,  But I would never think of taking away their collective bargaining or their right to unionize. Any Gov Worth their salt should be able to sit down with labor unions and negotiate. Chris Christie is one. I may disagree with some of his politics, but at least he is not a coward and wus.  Walker is both, and a liar to boot , and a corp owned politician.

And Billy and the like can call me what they wish. But I am in total disagreement with taking away anyone's collective bargaining and if that makes me liberal regarding this one issue ...so be it but I have sat back and have watched the outsourcing of American jobs for a number of years now. The jobs are not coming back no matter how many tax breaks we give these corps. This is nothing more than a 2012 power grab , and the selling off of America, The corps do not want an inhibitors in their way to push their agenda,  ie: unions , and the corps don't have the American workers best interests.
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Offline Buckskin

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #872 on: March 27, 2011, 03:15:02 AM »
Buckskin and everyone I know that voted for him in Milwaukee, now wants him gone.
THE HELL I DO. Can you do a post without lying and twisting ones words around.

In the 18th (Oshkosh, Fond du Lac and surroundings), Republican incumbent Randy Hopper faces a 44-49 deficit against a generic Democrat. Polling by SurveyUSA last week paints an even direr picture for Hopper — trailing 43-54.
Dan Kapanke faces a 55-41 deficit against a Democratic challenger. President Obama won the district 61-38.
In the 14th (central Wisconsin, Marquette), Republican Luther Olsen will be fighting for his political life, trailing a generic Democrat 49-47. Obama won the district 52-47.
In two more districts, Republicans lead narrowly, but are under 50 percent: In the 10th (St. Croix, northwestern Wisconsin), Sheila Harsdorf holds a 48-44 lead, while in the 2nd (northeastern Wisconsin, outside Green Bay), Rob Cowles holds a mere 45-43 lead. Obama won both districts narrowly.

Finally, Democrats are within striking range in the 8th (Milwaukee’s northern suburbs), where incumbent Republican Alberta Darling holds a single-digit lead — 52-44.

Will be interesting to see if Alberta Darling holds on since she only won her last race by only 1,007 votes.

They only need three seats ... as I said it's heating up. Great fun to watch.  Ahhh you forget about the donkeys being recalled also, you will get a push at best and you also forget that there will be voter ID before this election so your side won't be able to cheat as easily as in the past....
Buckskin

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Offline Buckskin

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #873 on: March 27, 2011, 03:31:03 AM »
And Billy and the like can call me what they wish. But I am in total disagreement with taking away anyone's collective bargaining and if that makes me liberal regarding this one issue ...so be it but I have sat back and have watched the outsourcing of American jobs for a number of years now.

Sorry, but politcal colors run deeper than one issue, you are what you are through and through and you seem very proud of that liberal badge.  That's great, just hope you realize what else your voting for with these donkeys... And when they come for your guns, well, I won't have to tell you I told you so... Maybe one of those European countries would suit you better, they have already gotten where you want to go....

And please explain how the outsourcing of jobs is because of corporate welfare?  If corps had it sooo good here, why move elsewhere? Hmmmm, maybe its because of the insane union demands, environmental whacko's, and restrictive laws that your side so proudly pukes down our throats...

Collective bargaining doesn't work, for the single fact that all of the so called workers in the collection do not deserve the rewards that have been bargained...
Buckskin

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Offline Cabin4

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #874 on: March 27, 2011, 04:59:24 AM »
The government can look to private industry as a solution for labor. That would bring a competitive principal to the process. Just like private industry looks to out source non-core value process to firms that specilize in a process. Brings lower cost and competition to ensure the company is getting the best deal. Happens all the time in the private sector it should happen in government. Just because you outsource does not mean you are off-shoring the out source.
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Offline Buckskin

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #875 on: March 27, 2011, 05:58:26 AM »
Buckskin...currently only about 12% of American labor is unionized...way down from the Golden Age of American middle class.  That may be true, but how about manufacturing? What is the percentage there?  And unions back in the day were concerned about workers well-being, now they are concerned about the union as an entity, not the workers.  They are more than willing to lose a plant to a right to work state than to give in to reasonable demands.

So your idea about offshoring because of unions doesn't ring true as you're told.  So why have so many Wisconsin companies moved to right to work states, just for different scenery??? Only about 35% of governmnet labor is unionized...is governmnet going to outsource-offshore their operations next..? No, because for the most part, government doesn't mind wasting taxpayer money...

Walker, Synder,Kasich, LePage,,,,are politicians re-engineering  society...downward.  They and their agendi are far worst then any libber's in part. You can't really think your taxes are going down any more then a couple hundred dollars with these guys, if at all...?  Typical liberal response... Unfortunately it never ends with you guys. Few dollars here few hundred here, you won't even notice... Tax, tax, tax.  Oh yeah I forgot, retired so who cares anymore...
These guys are always screaming sky is falling deficits and giving tax cuts to the influential.....are you in the Influence Class...? Those influential are the ones creating the jobs that produce a product, benefit, GDP, and yes taxes... Guess what, they are in it to make money, if they don't make money - no jobs, no raises, no economy.   Unless you are shooting for everything being run by the government...  Which you and Scoot seem so for... You already have your nest egg set away, so to hell with the economy.
...TM7
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Buckskin

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Offline ironglow

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #876 on: March 27, 2011, 07:53:26 AM »
Seems like I read in the paper yesterday that some conservative prosecutor from Indiana had to resign after his email to Walker was made public where he suggested that Walker fake an attack by a "liberal" to hurt their credibility.

Like I always say about ideologues...

Can't be- that's sometning only a liberal would think of.  ::)

  XD40SC;
     You're quite correct, that does sound more like a liberal tactic; something they probably learned from their communist brethren...the old "end justifies the means" idea...   Here's a couple Democrats who recently hit their deceptive stride;

    http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news/two-charged-in-tea-party-election-fraud-20110316-mr

     ..It could end up costing them 14 years though !  It was reported that Harry Reid was once considering such trickery, but they didn't push it so hard there.    Of  course in case such was tried and exposed, "dirty Harry" wouldn't  end up in jail...some 'useful idiots' would pay the price for him..
If you don't want the truth, don't ask me.  If you want something sugar coated...go eat a donut !  (anon)

Offline Buckskin

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #877 on: March 27, 2011, 08:38:41 AM »
Buckskin;;;

From 1998 to 2008, unionized jobs in manufacturing disappeared twice as quickly as non-unionized ones. Thats because the union wasn't needed. Consequently, the rate of unionization decreased from 32.2% to 26.4% in the manufacturing sector, while the number of unionized manufacturing jobs fell from 5.3 million in 1983 to 1.5 million in 2009. That's a 72% loss... Hmmm, well that's a good start! Hopefully Walker will start the trend to get rid of the rest of them...

Its is true that unions take about 10-15% off the gross of corps and give to workers in benefits and wages....they're about getting living wages, job security, work place fairness, HC and retirement and a fair shake since they believe they help build these various businesses. Bunk[color=red]! they're about taking advantage of every opportunity to benefit the union (that is the fat cats on the top tier of the union, which you and scooter totally ignore), workers and company be damned. [/color] I'm not opposed to that, I suppose you are though. Manufacturing elite are opposed to that...they want it all for themselves and love 3rd world countries and despots like Walker... So, they move to other states where labor is cheaper, or offshore..... I don't hear the nonunion shops down south clamoring to be unionized even with massive union pressure.  Wonder why that is?  Maybe they prefer to be paid based on their talents instead of the pool... a form of corporate welfare at the expense of middle class again. This is double downed welfare when they get tax breaks at the same time...more welfare--even subsidizing to offshore. It is illogical to think that tax breaks for the influential will not SHIFT taxes to other groups who are not so influential and vocal, and who just happen to be the groups benefitting less from the State's services and operations. Stimulating the economy with tax breaks to whomever helps, now if you liberals could get your spending in check.... Tax cuts are always Tax SHIFTS.  This corpo welfare system is arse backweirds....only so-called conservatives could buy into it given their mindthink, which ultimately results in the slow destruction of the American system and society.

Someday, maybe we can discuss the real reasons industry was offshored to China and who was responsible and why....wouldn't that be nice to discuss..?

Cheap labor, lax environmental laws and incentives from China among other things I'm sure.  Like it or not it's a global economy and unions and donkeys are a big factor in keeping the American work force noncompetitive...

..TM7
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Buckskin

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Offline billy_56081

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #878 on: March 27, 2011, 09:06:05 AM »
And if you see the whole story, it was a liberal lawyer who was sugesting that to gov Walker and gov Walker exposed it. Sop for liberal parasites once again.
Haven't seen it reported like this anywhere.  Can you hit me with a reputable link?  Both that Walker exposed it, and that Lam was a liberal?

I have a brother in law on well let's say very very much onthe inside of this.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline carbineman

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #879 on: March 27, 2011, 09:46:53 AM »
Scoot wrote,<<<<But I would never think of taking away their collective bargaining or their right to unionize. Any Gov Worth their salt should be able to sit down with labor unions and negotiate. Chris Christie is one. I may disagree with some of his politics, but at least he is not a coward and wus.  Walker is both, and a liar to boot , and a corp owned politician.

And Billy and the like can call me what they wish. But I am in total disagreement with taking away anyone's collective bargaining and if that makes me liberal regarding this one issue>>>>End of quoted text

Scoot you mention collective bargaining several times here and the lack of it by Governor Walker. Well I hired/voted for Governor Walker to be my representative at the collective bargaining table and he is doing exactly what I wanted him to do as my representative. I don't really care about Chris Christie, name calling, liberals, conservatives, or any other ism you can name. Governor Walker is doing "my collective bargaining"exactly what I hired him to do. And I don't give as rats rearend if it is coming from unionized government employees their agents or their dog for that matter, as long as it is not coming from me. I know lots of people(the silent majority) who think the same way. What do you find so difficult to understand about that? You may not like it, but for now that is the way it is.

Offline scootrd

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #880 on: March 27, 2011, 11:53:50 AM »
Ahhh you forget about the donkeys being recalled also, you will get a push at best and you also forget that there will be voter ID before this election so your side won't be able to cheat as easily as in the past....

No Push at all , the Dems won all eight of these Democratic-held districts easily, seven of them by double digits.I doubt seriously if they could gather enough to recall a single Dem.
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Offline scootrd

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #881 on: March 27, 2011, 12:09:24 PM »
That's great, just hope you realize what else your voting for with these donkeys... And when they come for your guns, well, I won't have to tell you I told you so...

Now why on Gods green earth would you draw a correlation that just because I believe labor has the right to organize and negotiate collectively , has anything to do with how I stand regarding Gun ownership and Gun rights. Two totally separate subjects. I am a proud member of Gun owners of America. and no I am not a card carrying NRA member. 

Unlike some , I don't tow the proverbial party lines blindly just cause others think they should.  I think for myself , study read , and draw my own conclusions.  I am more liberal on some social issues, more conservative on others , more conservative on some financial issues, less on others.
"if your old flathead doesn't leak you are out of oil"
"I have strong feelings about gun control. If there is a gun around I want to be controlling it." - Clint Eastwood
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjaman Franklin
"It's better to be hated for who you are , then loved for who your not." - Van Zant

Offline scootrd

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #882 on: March 27, 2011, 12:14:26 PM »
Buckskin;;;
It is illogical to think that tax breaks for the influential will not SHIFT taxes to other groups who are not so influential and vocal, and who just happen to be the groups benefiting less from the State's services and operations. Tax cuts are always Tax SHIFTS. 

..TM7


+1

And Tax cuts create Deficits and Budget shortfalls.  "Emergency Budget Crisis's" Or in our case for the purpose of this thread let's just call it the Walker syndrome.

Tax breaks for corporations do not create Jobs  - they increase the Deficit
Tax breaks for the rich does not create Jobs  - 25 plus years of Trickle-down economics hasn't worked.
Deregulation does not create Jobs -  Deregulation is what got us into this deep recession to begin with.
Cutting Govt Spending does not create jobs  - Less government spending reduces overall demand. GOVT spending is one of the largest catalysts for private sector growth.
Cuts in public or private sector wages and benefits do not create jobs.  -  less wages, less to spend to boost ecomomy.
"if your old flathead doesn't leak you are out of oil"
"I have strong feelings about gun control. If there is a gun around I want to be controlling it." - Clint Eastwood
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Offline scootrd

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #883 on: March 27, 2011, 12:27:14 PM »
I know lots of people(the silent majority) who think the same way. What do you find so difficult to understand about that? You may not like it, but for now that is the way it is.[/b]

Actually , they would be the silent minority, as all polls clearly show (pick anyone you want) clearly show the Majority did not want Walker and legislature to strip collective bargaining.
"if your old flathead doesn't leak you are out of oil"
"I have strong feelings about gun control. If there is a gun around I want to be controlling it." - Clint Eastwood
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjaman Franklin
"It's better to be hated for who you are , then loved for who your not." - Van Zant

Offline Cabin4

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #884 on: March 27, 2011, 01:16:37 PM »
Tax cuts can only be a tax shift if someone else’s tax goes up in direct relation. Again, tax cuts cannot create a deficit, only over spending can. Taxes for everyone if the private sector should be cut If you currently pay tax as a private sector employee, business or corp. If you do not pay tax as some claim, then you cannot get a further tax cut, right?! Spending needs to be cut by a higher margin than the private sector tax cut. No government employee, state or federal should get any tax cut. Their salaries and benefits and pension should be reduced.

So, while we can all most likely agree that in the example case of GE paying no federal tax, they clearly paid state tax in the states they operate and they indirectly pay tax on the goods and services they procure through their suppliers of goods and services. GE earns revenue and pays it employees and those employees pay income, SS, FICA, State income tax. Where as in the case of a government worker, they are paid from tax levied against the private sector (i.e., the tax that GE employees paid and their suppliers). Those government employees pay income tax back to the same entity (government) that robbed it from the private sector employee to begin with.

I stand with the private sector employee and business that actually contributes to our nations budget needs.

Avery Hayden Wallace
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Offline DDZ

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #885 on: March 27, 2011, 01:44:59 PM »
Tax breaks for corporations do not create Jobs  - they increase the Deficit 
Gee, we should tax them more, maybe they all would leave the country.

Tax breaks for the rich does not create Jobs.
If this were true, why not tax the wealthy at 80%. At least we wouldn't have to worry about losing jobs.

GOVT spending is one of the largest catalysts for private sector growth.
And if this were true we would not be trillions in debt.

Unlike some , I don't tow the proverbial party lines blindly just cause others think they should.  I think for myself , study read , and draw my own conclusions.  I am more liberal on some social issues, more conservative on others , more conservative on some financial issues, less on others.
Scootrd, you have been posting here for some time, and I can't recall many times, if any, that you portrayed a conservative mindset.
All of your pro union politicians generally have socialist tendencies, with disarmament of America in mind. I know people that are members of NRA, Gun owners of America, and such, but vote for those who say things like "I'm not out to take you hunting rifle, or your goose gun away." 
 
Those people who will not be governed by God will be ruled by tyrants.    Wm. Penn

Offline scootrd

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #886 on: March 27, 2011, 02:16:10 PM »
Quote
Scootrd, you have been posting here for some time, and I can't recall many times, if any, that you portrayed a conservative mindset.
What you and others Like have a hard time understanding is there is such a thing as a Moderate Republican (at least there use to be) I know , blasphemous in your world. 

The new Republican party has been hijacked by a bunch of Faaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrr Right wing republican nut jobs,  and  any politician that wants to survive must now morph to the extreme right to appease.  The Dems have moved Far left on the other end of the spectrum . So where does that leave Moderate Republicans and Moderate Dems?  -  Nowhere.

Contrary to popular belief , there are middle of the road conservati­ves who believe in compromise on both sides of the isle. (I know,  again not in your world).

The Republicans are eating their own. If you tout yourself as moderate this new group has made it clear They don't want you in the Party. Jim Jeffords and Lincoln Chafee broke with the republican party for exactly the same reasons , a growing disagreement with President Bush and the party leadership over the Increase of corporate welfare which has contributed to the national debt. I didn't leave the republican party ...they left me with their ridiculous far right wing agenda's. 

But hey , if you want to hang with the Bachmann's  and Angle's of the world ... go for it. They don't speak for me.
"if your old flathead doesn't leak you are out of oil"
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Offline Cabin4

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #887 on: March 27, 2011, 02:42:19 PM »
Compromise is what we have today. One party takes power and drives it off to the left. The next party takes power and drives it off to the right. Both driving it off the road. Its not about compromise anymore. Compromise has us in one ditch or the other. Its about whats right and wrong as defined & confined to in our constitution.
Avery Hayden Wallace
Obama Administration: A corrupt criminal enterprise of bold face liars.
The States formed the Union. The Union did not form the States. States Rights!
GET US OUT OF THE UN. NO ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT!
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Offline billy_56081

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #888 on: March 27, 2011, 02:44:54 PM »
It just goes to show us all, a thief will do or say anything to justify their actions. Parasites is the perfect description for these lazy thieves. These parasites are in the same class as the louse and tapeworm.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline carbineman

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #889 on: March 27, 2011, 02:55:12 PM »
From CBS's 60 minutes, Corporations escape the highest Corporate Tax in the world by moving off shore. There you have it.

(CBS News)  Just when the U.S. Treasury needs the money most, American companies are finding new ways to shift profits to overseas tax havens and legally avoid paying the U.S. tax rate of 35 percent - among the highest in the world.

Those companies say they are doing what they must to compete in the global economy and please their shareholders. But others feel the companies are getting an unfair break by moving business to places like Switzerland and Ireland.


Lesley Stahl reports on the debate for a "60 Minutes" story to be broadcast Sunday, March 27 at 7 p.m. ET/PT.


Weatherford International is a Texas-based oilfield services company that used to be incorporated in the Caribbean, and recently moved to the small town of Zug, Switzerland. About 26,000 people live in this town, but some 30,000 companies are registered in the area.


Weatherford's Zug address is little more than that: an address. The company still has 2,800 workers in Houston, and an upper management that rarely goes to Zug. But incorporating here allows them to significantly lower their tax bill. The average tax rate in Zug is between 15 and 16 percent.


These maneuvers irk Rep. Lloyd Doggett (D.-Texas), even though they're perfectly legal. He's sponsored a bill that will force companies to pay taxes based on where their top executives spend the most time and make the most decisions. "Let them pay the same way that other Houston-based companies pay," says Doggett, who blames lobbying and strong-arm politics for allowing the practice to be legal. "I think it was a shenanigan when some of these companies felt so strongly about America that they renounced their American citizenship and began saluting a foreign flag," he tells Stahl.


Faced with the threat of legislation from Doggett, several companies, including Weatherford, are moving top executives to Switzerland, sending top-level jobs overseas. But there's a far larger migration going on: American companies remaining incorporated and headquartered in the U.S. are shifting a lot of their assets, products and jobs in manufacturing and research to low-tax countries, like Ireland and Switzerland.


Profits accumulating there, stay there, however, because companies cannot bring back the money into the U.S. without paying the full 35 percent tax. So, not only is the U.S. Treasury not getting tax money it badly needs, this system actually seems to encourage companies to further develop and expand abroad.


"We leave the money over there," explains John Chambers, CEO of high-tech giant Cisco. "I create jobs overseas; I acquire companies overseas; I build plants overseas and I badly want to bring that money back," he tells Stahl.


Chambers says his company has almost $40 billion trapped overseas, that he can't bring back because of the high U.S. tax rate. Chambers is advocating for an overhaul of the entire tax code, but he's also advocating for a one-time tax break to allow U.S. companies to bring back their earnings kept overseas - over a trillion dollars - at a reduced tax rate.


Even at a reduced rate, it would translate to billions of dollars for the U.S. Treasury. "What is your downside for money that isn't going to come back anyhow? I'd say your downside is zero," says Chambers.

© 2011 CBS Interactive Inc.. All Rights Reserved.

Offline billy_56081

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #890 on: March 27, 2011, 03:17:45 PM »
It sure makes the thieves whine when their victims move out of reach.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline XD40SC

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #891 on: March 27, 2011, 03:24:13 PM »
What you and others Like have a hard time understanding is there is such a thing as a Moderate Republican (at least there use to be) I know , blasphemous in your world. 

The new Republican party has been hijacked by a bunch of Faaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrr Right wing republican nut jobs,  and  any politician that wants to survive must now morph to the extreme right to appease.  The Dems have moved Far left on the other end of the spectrum . So where does that leave Moderate Republicans and Moderate Dems?  -  Nowhere.

Contrary to popular belief , there are middle of the road conservati­ves who believe in compromise on both sides of the isle. (I know,  again not in your world).
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It's rather easy to explain. Narrow minded people only see things one way- their way. If you don't agree with them , the name calling begins. ie. rino, parasite, lib's , dumbcrats, liberal parasites [ wish I had a dollar for every time that has been written].  etc. These people sound like a bunch of grade school kids calling out derogatory names because they don't have the ability to understand it's OK if someone else has an opinion other than theirs.

Offline Buckskin

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #892 on: March 27, 2011, 03:28:36 PM »
Your donkey politicians don't sort out issues based on "your" beliefs.  If you think they wouldn't take away your guns at the first oportunity, you are much more lost than I possibly could have imagined, which is saying something!

A moderate is nothing more than a confused person who isn't sure where his moral beliefs stand.  Either that or they just plainly won't admit to being a liberal...  Kind of like sleeping with an ugly woman, many do it - but most don't want to admit it... 

Hopefully TM and Scoot will re-read carbineman's post and let it sink in...
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Offline billy_56081

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #893 on: March 27, 2011, 03:28:50 PM »
I only use the term parasite as it is what we are dealing with in this thread. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/parasite
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline Cabin4

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #894 on: March 27, 2011, 03:35:16 PM »
From CBS's 60 minutes, Corporations escape the highest Corporate Tax in the world by moving off shore. There you have it.

(CBS News)  Just when the U.S. Treasury needs the money most, American companies are finding new ways to shift profits to overseas tax havens and legally avoid paying the U.S. tax rate of 35 percent - among the highest in the world.

Those companies say they are doing what they must to compete in the global economy and please their shareholders. But others feel the companies are getting an unfair break by moving business to places like Switzerland and Ireland.


Lesley Stahl reports on the debate for a "60 Minutes" story to be broadcast Sunday, March 27 at 7 p.m. ET/PT.


Weatherford International is a Texas-based oilfield services company that used to be incorporated in the Caribbean, and recently moved to the small town of Zug, Switzerland. About 26,000 people live in this town, but some 30,000 companies are registered in the area.


Weatherford's Zug address is little more than that: an address. The company still has 2,800 workers in Houston, and an upper management that rarely goes to Zug. But incorporating here allows them to significantly lower their tax bill. The average tax rate in Zug is between 15 and 16 percent.


These maneuvers irk Rep. Lloyd Doggett (D.-Texas), even though they're perfectly legal. He's sponsored a bill that will force companies to pay taxes based on where their top executives spend the most time and make the most decisions. "Let them pay the same way that other Houston-based companies pay," says Doggett, who blames lobbying and strong-arm politics for allowing the practice to be legal. "I think it was a shenanigan when some of these companies felt so strongly about America that they renounced their American citizenship and began saluting a foreign flag," he tells Stahl.


Faced with the threat of legislation from Doggett, several companies, including Weatherford, are moving top executives to Switzerland, sending top-level jobs overseas. But there's a far larger migration going on: American companies remaining incorporated and headquartered in the U.S. are shifting a lot of their assets, products and jobs in manufacturing and research to low-tax countries, like Ireland and Switzerland.


Profits accumulating there, stay there, however, because companies cannot bring back the money into the U.S. without paying the full 35 percent tax. So, not only is the U.S. Treasury not getting tax money it badly needs, this system actually seems to encourage companies to further develop and expand abroad.


"We leave the money over there," explains John Chambers, CEO of high-tech giant Cisco. "I create jobs overseas; I acquire companies overseas; I build plants overseas and I badly want to bring that money back," he tells Stahl.


Chambers says his company has almost $40 billion trapped overseas, that he can't bring back because of the high U.S. tax rate. Chambers is advocating for an overhaul of the entire tax code, but he's also advocating for a one-time tax break to allow U.S. companies to bring back their earnings kept overseas - over a trillion dollars - at a reduced tax rate.


Even at a reduced rate, it would translate to billions of dollars for the U.S. Treasury. "What is your downside for money that isn't going to come back anyhow? I'd say your downside is zero," says Chambers.

© 2011 CBS Interactive Inc.. All Rights Reserved.

Overwhelmingly, by an enormous margin, companies are off shoring because they must or go out of business. Yes, you can find the GE out there and a few more that have exploited the tax gaps as a very specific strategy. But thanks to our US Corp. Tax rate for that!

I've said this a million times on this forum, we have the highest corp. tax rate in the world and that creates an environment that corporation MUST find a away to avoid that tax rate. If they don’t, their competitors in Germany, Japan and elsewhere will out bid them for business. It’s that simple. Look at Germany. They do not suffer from this problem. They have a low corporate tax rate which is an incentive for domestic production. They are the second largest exporter in the world of manufactured goods. The rest of German social policy is terrible but from a corporate tax standpoint, they are on the mark. I’ve been in the manufacturing sector for 30 years now and have been on the inside of this at very large global companies. I have and still have global P&L & Budget responsibility and I’m telling you I live this issue every damn day.

Listening to some here talk about raising corp. taxes…it ridiculous. They have no idea what they are mumbling about. Close some of the loop-holes. That is not the issue nor is it going to make a dent in a $14trillion dollar deficit. This country just spends too damn much. It’s as simple as that. Lower the corp. tax rate and jobs will return because corporations will make money off it. If they make money, tax revenues will go up. Cut spending by X and reduce taxes by Y. In addition, we need Trade policy change. Those that will not play fair with the US (Brazil included) we need to implement an import duty/tax process. Brazil places anywhere from a 40% to 200% import tax on our products. Yet in return, we place almost nothing in their import to the US. And to boot, Obama just gave Brazil $2billion of our tax dollars. Other similar countries are India and Russia. 20% to 300% import duty/tax assessed on our imported goods and excessive import restrictions that further increase a company’s operating costs.
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Offline Buckskin

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #895 on: March 27, 2011, 03:36:42 PM »
What you and others Like have a hard time understanding is there is such a thing as a Moderate Republican (at least there use to be) I know , blasphemous in your world. 

The new Republican party has been hijacked by a bunch of Faaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrr Right wing republican nut jobs,  and  any politician that wants to survive must now morph to the extreme right to appease.  The Dems have moved Far left on the other end of the spectrum . So where does that leave Moderate Republicans and Moderate Dems?  -  Nowhere.

Contrary to popular belief , there are middle of the road conservati­ves who believe in compromise on both sides of the isle. (I know,  again not in your world).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's rather easy to explain. Narrow minded people only see things one way- their way. If you don't agree with them , the name calling begins. ie. rino, parasite, lib's dumbcrats, liberal parasites [ which I had a dollar for every time that has been written].  etc. These people sound like a bunch of grade school kids calling out derogatory names because they don't have the ability to understand it's OK if someone else has an opinion other than theirs.

Oh for heaven's sake, a liberal is giving an etiquette lecture.  Now that's a laugh... Maybe you should go back and look at the signs your liberal counterparts were towing around the capital when their voted in electorate didn't see things their way...  Liberals are the most intollerant group next to radical muslims...
Buckskin

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Offline carbineman

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #896 on: March 27, 2011, 03:37:32 PM »
xd40sc wrote<<<<Narrow minded people only see things one way- their way.>>>End of quoted text.

So What, I'm just looking out for me and mine, ones "individual non collective God given right" I don't care if you call me narrow minded, I find it complimentary and BTW is being called narrow minded less derogatory than the other examples you have stated? Which grade school kid are you in this discussion?

Scoot, again you left out that 16 different Senators are facing possible recall. Just thought I'd bring the math up to date.

Offline XD40SC

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #897 on: March 27, 2011, 03:39:53 PM »
Carbinemans post is a good one in that he states facts. Notice no name calling. Even if his opinion is different than those of others, he has done it in a respectful way. Again; notice no name calling of any kind. I wonder how many here can follow his example?

Offline Cabin4

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #898 on: March 27, 2011, 05:00:42 PM »
This country cannot survive without business and corporations. Attacking them with all the populist anti business/anti corporation stuff is just plain ridiculous. These are the very tax revenue generating entities the government must have to survive. The only way the government can solve the deficit issues is to ensure business/corporations thrive and want to do business in the US. Claiming that state or federal departments, employees and agencies are the catylist in our economy is so off base it’s impossible to reasonably respond to it.
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Offline powderman

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Re: Democratic senators bail ship
« Reply #899 on: March 27, 2011, 05:31:16 PM »
Quote
Liberals are the most intollerant group next to radical muslims...



YEP. POWDERMAN.  :o :o
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