Democratic senators bail ship

[scootrd]

Arrogance update  -  collective bargaining

So I guess the Walker Administration finally figured out that there was an additional branch of government in Wisconsin and He and his administration was not above the law.

After initially defying a second court order to stop implementation of a Wisconsin law stripping most collective bargaining rights from public employees, I guess Scott Walker felt that the third order from Dane County Judge Maryann Sumi did the trick.

The Walker Administration will actually stop implementation of the law.   Wisconsin governor Scott Walker’s administration will comply with a judge’s order to put on hold temporarily a controversial law curbing the collective bargaining rights of state public employee unions, two state officials tell the Associated Press.

On Friday, Judge Maryann Sumi delayed for at least two months the implementation of the anti-union law in Wisconsin that would strip most collective bargaining rights from public employees.

   

[Cabin4]

END COLLECTIVE BARGANING NOW! COMMON SENCE FOR THE TAX PAYERS NOW! NO MORE RUN AWAY UNION DEMANDS AND HOLDING THE TAX PAYERS HOSTAGE WHILE UNION COMPENSATION TREND CONTINUES TO INCREASE AND EVERYONE ELSES COMPENSATION GOES DOWN. STOP STATE UNION WORKER GREED AND UNREASONABLE LEVERAGE AT THE NEGOTITATION TABLE. JUSTICE FOR TAX PAYERS.

[Buckskin]

Arrogance update  -  collective bargaining

So I guess the Walker Administration finally figured out that there was an additional branch of government in Wisconsin and He and his administration was not above the law.

After initially defying a second court order to stop implementation of a Wisconsin law stripping most collective bargaining rights from public employees, I guess Scott Walker felt that the third order from Dane County Judge Maryann Sumi did the trick.

The Walker Administration will actually stop implementation of the law.   Wisconsin governor Scott Walker’s administration will comply with a judge’s order to put on hold temporarily a controversial law curbing the collective bargaining rights of state public employee unions, two state officials tell the Associated Press.

On Friday, Judge Maryann Sumi delayed for at least two months the implementation of the anti-union law in Wisconsin that would strip most collective bargaining rights from public employees.

 

Interesting how you support a liberal judge overstepping her authority and spitting on our Constitution but are sooo concerned about the fabricated "rights" of union workers.  This will get overturned at the Supreme Court in short order and you know it...  Then what will your left wing cronies come up with???  Oh yeah, recalls...... Threatening letters to businesses.... Senators leaving state.....

What an embarrassment to the fabric of our great Country these liberals are...  And it will be very interesting to see how this turns out.  My guess is that the liberals will end up losing a couple seats in the senate when this is said and done...

Scooter, don't forget to vote for your counterpart for Supreme Court tomorrow...  You know, the anti-business, anti-gun lawyer who has never been a judge before but thinks she's qualified to be a Supreme Court Justice....
I'm sure you will cast that vote with union pride...

[Buckskin]

So now you profess to be an expert on poverty in Alabama? You can't produce facts, so you make up drivel to divert the discussion away from any valid argument that may expose you. You're not as sharp as you fancy yourself to be. You sit at a computer where you can safely stir the pot with fabrications, throw out cutsie little insults to show everyone how clever you are.  And your little smiley faces    

" ...Now I ask you fellows..really; ...who is it that "makes things up" ?? Why are you asking them? You made the statement. Now you're asking them to impune their credibility to back-up your fabrication...really?

  Yeah, "FELLOWS" who is it??

"Skookums"? Okay ironglob...where's the quote? "Man-Up!!!" (Another TP favorite.)       

     

Ironglob ehhh....

[Skookum]

Arrogance update  -  collective bargaining

So I guess the Walker Administration finally figured out that there was an additional branch of government in Wisconsin and He and his administration was not above the law.

After initially defying a second court order to stop implementation of a Wisconsin law stripping most collective bargaining rights from public employees, I guess Scott Walker felt that the third order from Dane County Judge Maryann Sumi did the trick.

The Walker Administration will actually stop implementation of the law.   Wisconsin governor Scott Walker’s administration will comply with a judge’s order to put on hold temporarily a controversial law curbing the collective bargaining rights of state public employee unions, two state officials tell the Associated Press.

On Friday, Judge Maryann Sumi delayed for at least two months the implementation of the anti-union law in Wisconsin that would strip most collective bargaining rights from public employees.

 

Interesting how you support a liberal judge overstepping her authority and spitting on our Constitution but are sooo concerned about the fabricated "rights" of union workers.  This will get overturned at the Supreme Court in short order and you know it...  Then what will your left wing cronies come up with???  Oh yeah, recalls...... Threatening letters to businesses.... Senators leaving state.....

What an embarrassment to the fabric of our great Country these liberals are...  And it will be very interesting to see how this turns out.  My guess is that the liberals will end up losing a couple seats in the senate when this is said and done...

Scooter, don't forget to vote for your counterpart for Supreme Court tomorrow...  You know, the anti-business, anti-gun lawyer who has never been a judge before but thinks she's qualified to be a Supreme Court Justice....
I'm sure you will cast that vote with union pride...

"As for the argument that the judge over-stepped her authority regarding the three branches of government, perhaps the Wisconsin Republicans need to pay attention to themselves, because the judicial branch has the authority to check the legislative and executive branches; that is exactly how the three branches were intended to operate, in fact. The entire purpose of the judiciary is to make sure the other two branches do not over step their bounds."
 

[ironglow]

Skook.

   The people voted in representatives to handle lawmaking for them.  The lawmakers did their job.  Now, simply because they didn't like the laws which were enacted, the riotous mob want the judicial branch to step in and interfere with the legislative decisions.... and they found a lap dog judge willing to do their bidding.
  Historically, the judicial branch is to INTERPRET and APPLY the laws which are already enacted...and NOT attempt to REWRITE the laws, trashing the legislators' work.
   In this instance, a pitiful judge, with a vested interest in unions, has usurped the lawmaking process.  Whether this encroachment by the judicial upon the legislative goes anywhere is anybody's guess, and you may gloat at the process..but if it does, our juris-prudence system has suffered; along with every citizen,
     
  Should every piece of legiuslation enacted be REWRITTEN by a panel of several judges, or should the peoples' choice in lawmakers be honored ?  This move could set a prescedent for that..
   This stupid move by a stupid judge if allowed to stand, will destroy 1/3 of our govt...the part which truly represents the will of the people.
   Hard to understand someone who gloats over another constitutional safeguard lost !

[Cabin4]

A corrupt judge who ignored Wisconsin senate rules/law. Who's son is a key member in the union.

Spitting on our laws is just fine with the union thugs. This is why they need to be brought down to size. END COLLECTIVE BARGANING.

[XD40SC]

END COLLECTIVE BARGANING NOW! COMMON SENCE FOR THE TAX PAYERS NOW! NO MORE RUN AWAY UNION DEMANDS AND HOLDING THE TAX PAYERS HOSTAGE WHILE UNION COMPENSATION TREND CONTINUES TO INCREASE AND EVERYONE ELSES COMPENSATION GOES DOWN. STOP STATE UNION WORKER GREED AND UNREASONABLE LEVERAGE AT THE NEGOTITATION TABLE. JUSTICE FOR TAX PAYERS.

my poor ears are hurting from all this shouting.

[scootrd]

Interesting how you support a liberal judge overstepping her authority and spitting on our Constitution but are sooo concerned about the fabricated "rights" of union workers.

If Wisconsin does not want her on the bench then remove her. But as of right now her word is Law. If Wisconsin feels she over-reached then again ..remove her , but as of right now Her word is the only one that counts . The Judge is ruling on Wisconsin procedural law, which she has been sworn in to uphold. She is determining if the original passing of the bill was unconstitutional (not the merits of the bill itself) because it may have violated opens meeting law in the state during passage, so how pray tell has this Judge spit on the constitution? You can disagree with her , as I disagree with the Supreme court 5-4 decision on campaign contributions,  but again if you don't like ruling remove her.

The only people overstepping their authority here is Walker and his administration. first in passing it, then ignoring her ruling of injunctions  3 times.

fabricated "rights"

Buckskin Where do you come up with this stuff ? Go study up on History. (Just don't use a Texas history book because then no one could  vouch for what misinformation you might learn by what was recently admitted of skewed)

In 1959, Wisconsin became the first state to enact public employee collective bargaining laws. President John F. Kennedy then followed with an executive order granting federal employees the right to bargain collectively.


...where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost.
Ronald Reagan, Labor Day Speech at Liberty State Park, 1980

American workers will once again be heeded.  Their needs and values will be acted upon in Washington. 
I will consult with representatives of organized labor on those matters concerning the welfare of the working
people of this nation. I happen to be the only president of a union ever to be a candidate for President of the
United States. As president of my union -- the Screen Actors Guild -- I spent many hours with the late George Meany, whose love of this country and whose belief in a strong defense against all totalitarians is one of labor’s greatest legacies.

Ronald Reagan


Here so you can here it in his own words

You all have been so misled by the extreme right wing winguts of the republican party you truly have forgotten what it means to be a Republican

[SHOOTALL]

Collective bargining by govt. workers is bad. If the people of a state by voting in leadership wish to set pay and benifits then that should be it. The idea of a union over ruling the votes is absurd. The union members can in effect lose at the polls by supporting a canidate that supports their cause and after the fact defeat what the majority supported.

[Buckskin]

fabricated "rights"

Buckskin Where do you come up with this stuff ? Go study up on History. (Just don't use a Texas history book because then no one could  vouch for what misinformation you might learn by what was recently admitted of skewed)

Show me where in the constitution or bill of rights where it states that it is a right to unionize...

In 1959, Wisconsin became the first state to enact public employee collective bargaining laws. President John F. Kennedy then followed with an executive order granting federal employees the right to bargain collectively.


And Carter got rid of federal collective bargaining, so what's your point???

...where free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost.
Ronald Reagan, Labor Day Speech at Liberty State Park, 1980

American workers will once again be heeded.  Their needs and values will be acted upon in Washington. 
I will consult with representatives of organized labor on those matters concerning the welfare of the working
people of this nation. I happen to be the only president of a union ever to be a candidate for President of the
United States. As president of my union -- the Screen Actors Guild -- I spent many hours with the late George Meany, whose love of this country and whose belief in a strong defense against all totalitarians is one of labor’s greatest legacies.

Ronald Reagan (Wow a politician rubbing up against organized labor... I never would have guessed...)
Wasn't this the same guy who replaced the air traffic controllers when they went on strike?

You all have been so misled by the extreme right wing winguts of the republican party you truly have forgotten what it means to be a Republican.

I'm not a Republican. And you should talk about being misled,  look at who you are sleeping with and tell me it doesn't make you feel dirty... Especially if you are the moderate that you claim.[/quote]

[Cabin4]

Yes, even if it means lying, cheating, corruption, political court room theater, corrupt judges, ignoring of current state legislative law and rigging the system against the tax payers. All perfectly within the confines of the constitution.

[Cabin4]

Arrogance update  -  collective bargaining

So I guess the Walker Administration finally figured out that there was an additional branch of government in Wisconsin and He and his administration was not above the law.

After initially defying a second court order to stop implementation of a Wisconsin law stripping most collective bargaining rights from public employees, I guess Scott Walker felt that the third order from Dane County Judge Maryann Sumi did the trick.

The Walker Administration will actually stop implementation of the law.   Wisconsin governor Scott Walker’s administration will comply with a judge’s order to put on hold temporarily a controversial law curbing the collective bargaining rights of state public employee unions, two state officials tell the Associated Press.

On Friday, Judge Maryann Sumi delayed for at least two months the implementation of the anti-union law in Wisconsin that would strip most collective bargaining rights from public employees.

 

Interesting how you support a liberal judge overstepping her authority and spitting on our Constitution but are sooo concerned about the fabricated "rights" of union workers.  This will get overturned at the Supreme Court in short order and you know it...  Then what will your left wing cronies come up with???  Oh yeah, recalls...... Threatening letters to businesses.... Senators leaving state.....

What an embarrassment to the fabric of our great Country these liberals are...  And it will be very interesting to see how this turns out.  My guess is that the liberals will end up losing a couple seats in the senate when this is said and done...

Scooter, don't forget to vote for your counterpart for Supreme Court tomorrow...  You know, the anti-business, anti-gun lawyer who has never been a judge before but thinks she's qualified to be a Supreme Court Justice....
I'm sure you will cast that vote with union pride...

"As for the argument that the judge over-stepped her authority regarding the three branches of government, perhaps the Wisconsin Republicans need to pay attention to themselves, because the judicial branch has the authority to check the legislative and executive branches; that is exactly how the three branches were intended to operate, in fact. The entire purpose of the judiciary is to make sure the other two branches do not over step their bounds."

I though the state legislature was in "Special Session" when the law was voted on??

[jimster]

Buckskin must know the Constitution doesn't specifically prevent collective bargaining.

Constitution doesn't specifically prevent much of anything these days, depends who's writing it. 

Judges don't have the power they once had either, probably due to the fact that over the years they make things up as they go, it's not surprising nobody pays them much mind lately.  Doesn't seem to be anything they can do about it either.  Long as both sides ignore the constitution on a regular basis like they have been, and use judges to legislate, and nobody follows the judges rulings after that anyways, Why should anyone else? I figure that lets me off the hook with any judges as well...presidents and governors and congress pays them no mind, I guess I don't either really.  The only thing that matters is money, and there is none...that in itself will fix things the way they ought to be in the end, the people that want the tax money will not get it because it's not there, not because of legislation one way or the other. 

Legislation for more tax money for the city and state, and there was a lot of it over the years, did not help Detroit or Flint or other places,  it lead to their ruin. The money was gone and they kept on taking what wasn't there.  You will stop spending in the end, the question is will you do it before it's all totally crashed.  Some do, some don't. 

[ironglow]

Scootrd..... re: post#1207

BINGO.....

Buckskin must know the Constitution doesn't specifcally prevent collective bargaining. People can ban together and do what they have to do for a fair shake. Its only natural.


..TM7
.

  C'mon TM;
   I know you are much smarter than that !     
     
    The Constitution doesn't specifically prevent anyone from growing roses, stamp collecting,  eating grapes or paring their nails too short either...but that doesn't mean it ENCOURAGES any of those practices either..

[carbineman]

jimster wrote<<<The only thing that matters is money, and there is none...that in itself will fix things the way they ought to be in the end, the people that want the tax money will not get it because it's not there, not because of legislation one way or the other. >>> End of quoted text.

jimster, you just reiterated what I've been thinking on how this will end all along. The beast is being starved simply because of our economic slowdown, and all the magical pixie dust to make anymore funds appear has run out. As TM7 has stated, the rich will run if asked for more and the rest of us are tapped out here in Cheeseville. When asking a public unionized employee where will the funding come from to increase any wage and benefit they now receive, they just have this puzzled somewhat fearful look on their faces as they know the golden goose has done dried up.

[Buckskin]

Scootrd..... re: post#1207

BINGO.....

Buckskin must know the Constitution doesn't specifcally prevent collective bargaining. People can ban together and do what they have to do for a fair shake. Its only natural.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Carbineman....so you're going to starve them out....uhhh?


..TM7
.

  C'mon TM;
   I know you are much smarter than that !     
     
    The Constitution doesn't specifically prevent anyone from growing roses, stamp collecting,  eating grapes or paring their nails too short either...but that doesn't mean it ENCOURAGES any of those practices either..

C'mon...that's exactly the point, and Buskskin and you should know that. The Constitution discourages or prohibits some pratices, and divides up power. Being in a rock band, a rock hound club, a rocking chair porch society, a Rocky Mtn hiking club, or a Union is not prohibited, nor is collective bargaining...have at it all you workers...if you like...its a free country...

...TM7
.

You can be in all the unions you want, but the state is not obligated by the constitution to recognise you or bargain with you...  Walker isn't taking away anything that is guaranteed by the constitution, and you know it.

[Forestclimber]

I still don't understand why they don't go after all the unions.

[gypsyman]

It's real easy Forestclimber. In the private sector, unions deal with private company's. When it comes to public sector, we're dealing with public money,tax's paid by you and me.
If a company can afford raises and benifits, it's a deal worked out between a private company and that union. The money is coming from retail sales,usually, not tax's. gypsyman

[Buckskin]

Buckskin:

You can be in all the unions you want, but the state is not obligated by the constitution to recognise you or bargain with you...  Walker isn't taking away anything that is guaranteed by the constitution, and you know it

The State, or its representatives--puppet govenors or others, are obligated to follow Law...in this case labor Law. Technically and legally, the State is a corporation.

..TM7
.

Yes, so what's your point?  The State follows labor Law in every facet.  Bargaining with unions is not guaranteed in Law or Constitution, corporations or not.

[magooch]

I was a strong union person for more than 37 years and I still believe that unions are at least a necessary entity in much of what transpires between labor and management, but there has to be a clear line between the two.  When the unions have too much influence, or if the management side of things is beholding to the union, the balance is lost and it all goes sideways.

Regular union dues should never be allowed to be used for political purposes, because it often does not reflect the vues of the entire membership.  Voluntary contributions to a political fund is fine, but even with that, the union name should not be used to support any candidate, or position.  I know that is a tough line to draw, but nonetheless that is how it should be.

Ronald Reagan respected unionism, but he also knew that there are limits to everything.  He drew the line and enforced it with the air traffic controllers.

[mirage1988]

Buckskin:

You can be in all the unions you want, but the state is not obligated by the constitution to recognise you or bargain with you...  Walker isn't taking away anything that is guaranteed by the constitution, and you know it

The State, or its representatives--puppet govenors or others, are obligated to follow Law...in this case labor Law. Technically and legally, the State is a corporation.

..TM7
.

There you go- if a state is a corporation then it has a duty to its shareholders to balance its budget- which is what walker is attempting to do!

[ironglow]

  Let's not lose perspective; this is not the unions vs Walker !  This is the unions vs the people..and Walker is looking after the people's interests ...as he was elected to do.  Good job Scott Walker ..

[Forestclimber]

It's real easy Forestclimber. In the private sector, unions deal with private company's. When it comes to public sector, we're dealing with public money,tax's paid by you and me.
If a company can afford raises and benifits, it's a deal worked out between a private company and that union. The money is coming from retail sales,usually, not tax's. gypsyman

What about firemen and policemen?  They are paid with public funds.

[scootrd]

  Let's not lose perspective; this is not the unions vs Walker !  This is the unions vs the people..and Walker is looking after the people's interests ...as he was elected to do.  Good job Scott Walker ..

If it was truly the peoples interest , look at any poll you want .....The MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE don't want it ...your statement doesn't hold water... Bad Job Walker

[ironglow]

  Let's not lose perspective; this is not the unions vs Walker !  This is the unions vs the people..and Walker is looking after the people's interests ...as he was elected to do.  Good job Scott Walker ..

If it was truly the peoples interest , look at any poll you want .....The MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE don't want it ...your statement doesn't hold water... Bad Job Walker

    Scoot;
  Read again..."Walker is looking after the people's interests....as he was ELECTED to do"...
   Polls don't run for elections and polls can say whatever the poll taker wants them to say...so, no cigar there...

[mirage1988]

  Let's not lose perspective; this is not the unions vs Walker !  This is the unions vs the people..and Walker is looking after the people's interests ...as he was elected to do.  Good job Scott Walker ..

If it was truly the peoples interest , look at any poll you want .....The MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE don't want it ...your statement doesn't hold water... Bad Job Walker

    Scoot;
  Read again..."Walker is looking after the people's interests....as he was ELECTED to do"...
   Polls don't run for elections and polls can say whatever the poll taker wants them to say...so, no cigar there...

And now the shoe is on the other foot- the dems jammed thru socialized medicine under the guise of "reform" even though the majority of americans were opposed to it, so your poll statement doesn't hold water scoot.

[gypsyman]

The city that I live in, still has a volunteer fire dept. And, the police dept. only hires as it can afford. Unfortunately, I believe that city's,townships and county's are going to have to go back to what made this country in the first place. Alittle more effort from the citizens, because there isn't the money to sit back and pay somebody else to do the job. gypsyman

[Cabin4]

Notice how with these state union workers and government workers in general, a complete and total disregard of the impacts to the tax payers and the financial situation of the state/government. They could care less. They talk as if they are "united" with "labor". While the increased taxes and financial burden are mostly taken on the backs of people that make less than them who are non-union labor.

I stand with Labor! (With my boot on the throats of everyone else).

[scootrd]

Koch Brothers plan on spending 88 million dollars in 2012 elections. (hey and if they get their way no Union competative $$$) Even Ron Paul today stated Politics, political influence,  and the Tea party has become "corpratized "( his word not mine ).  When the man who is credited with the inception of the Tea Party, as a grassroots movement, says it’s now corporately owned, it’s worth Listening.

Welcome to the buying of democracy unabated.

There are none so blind...