Scope vs ultra dot????

[jake]

I just purchased a TC Pro Hunter 15" 243 pistol.I have been shooting it with open sights and it shoot real good. I am trying to figure out which scope would work the best for me.

I have no experance with the ultrs dot scopes.They dont have any magnification do they?How would they work on 100-150 yard shots.


I'm also looking at the bushnell elite 3200 2x6-32.It looks like it might be what i would be better suited with.

I would love to hear what you handgun hunters recommend.This will be my first year hunting with a handgun.

Thanks

[shot1]

The non-magnifying dot scopes just cover too much of your target up at over 50 yards. It is like setting a basket ball up on the front of your pistol and trying to place a shot.

The Bushnell scope you mentioned will do you well. Last I looked Midway had them on sale. The Bushnell has 20" of constant eye relief on all powers and that is good. For the longer shots I like a little more power.  I have been using 2.5-8X28 Weavers for the past few years and they are really good scopes also. On 7 and 8 power the eye relief does shorten just a bit but I have never had any problems with it being too short. They run right around $200.

Here is some advice that I picked up through the school of been there and done that. Always keep your scope set on the lowest power setting. You will always have time to turn up the power but you never have time to turn the power down. This past year I was hunting with my 30-30AI Contender on an old logging road with thick cut overs on both sides of the road. A nice big 7 point buck pops out of the cut over 45 yards from me and keeps walking across the road. As always I had my scope set on 2.5 power and just had enough time to grab the pistol cock it and get on it's front shoulder and fire before it got all the way into the cut over on the other side of the road. If I would have had the scope set on a higher power I would not have been able to get on target that quick and I would not have gotten that buck.

[Catfish]

I scoped my first handgun in 1968 and have been shooting them ever since. I cannot stand the dots as they float arond and that drives me nuts. That said I have friends that love them and hate scopes. Handgun scope do not have near the field of view that rifle scope do so it takes alot more practice be able to find and get on your target, for that reason I would recomand you get a fixed 2X Leupold scope. They are lite weight and give you a point of aim that is good enough to out range your 243 on deer. I have 3, 2 1/2 x 8 handgun scope and have had 2, 3 x 9 handgun scopes but am moving back to the low powered fixed scopes on my hunting handguns.

[Redhawk1]

I have been shooing handguns for more years than I care to say.. but I have shot a lot of handguns with scopes and red-dot sights. If you have a good rest, and have time to acquire your target at long range, a scope will work just fine. If you want something for a quick shot and fast target acquisition, the red-dot is the way to go.. Ultra dot makes a red-dot called the Match-dot, you can adjust your dot size from 2 moa to 8 moa, at the 2 moa setting you cover 2 inch's at 100 yard and on 8 moa you cover 8 inches at 100 yards. Not quit a basket ball as the above poster posted.

I personally like the match-dots for hunting. I use the 2 moa for pin point shooting.

[jake]

I like the looks of the ultra-dot scope,but i feel a scope with magnification would be better for longer shots.I have no experiance with the dot scopes.I;m just afraid that if i order one that i might not like it.

[Redhawk1]

Jake, I have used the ultra-dot now for about 8 or 9 years, I have taken game out to 100 yards with my red-dot. Sure you don't have the magnification, but they work.. But use what you feel you think will work the best for you. I love my handgun hunting, I do more up close hunting with my handguns, as it just seems more fun for me. But I know I can make the 100 yard shot if needed.

[irold]

Jake ,

I don't have near the experience as the others , but I've been using various optics on handguns for about 8-10 years.  I started out with variables then went to a reddot ( Bushnell Trophy) on my hunting revolver.  It worked good.  But in my opinion , it was harder to make a precision shot.  I went back to a scope , now I use fixed 2X on my deer handguns.  My longest shot was just this year , 70 yds. Don't see the need for a lot of power on a handgun.  I set up for my hunt where my shots won't exceed my scope , or my ability.  Kinda like an archer hunter. This being said.....I have to agree with Redhawk1 , the reddot is must faster to acquire than a scope .  Go to your shop and look through them , the decision is ultimately yours , good luck......there's nothing like handgun hunting.

regards , irold

[jake]

Thanks guys, I will go to a few shops and check out the dot scopes.I like the sound of being able to find the target quicker.Like you said most of my shot should be under 100 yards.I would prefer 75 or less.Thats why i'm going to the pistol.I have lost intrest in long range rifle hunting its just not as big of a thrill as it us to be.Trying to put a little more challange back into it.

Thanks again

[Redhawk1]

Jake, check out the ultra dot match dot with the smaller 2 moa dot, you can shoot very small groups with it. At 25 yards I can usually cover my 5 shot group with a silver dollar. At 50 yards I can get very good groups as well with the 2 moa dot.

[Broom Rider]

It depends on how far you plan on shooting and how much magnification you feel you need.
It's easier to get a sight picture with a red dot than a scope but each have their benefits.
I'd suggest you try both if possible before making your decision.
Another choice would be to use a Weaver style base and set yourself up with both kinds of optics using quick release rings.

If that was my gun I'd use a Leupold 2.5x8 scope on it and be happy.

[shot1]

From the OP first post you ask about 100 to 150 yard shots. Now you are talking 75 yards and under shots. First off the Encore pistol with a 15" barrel is not a pistol to shoot off hand very accurately. You need to rest it on something. When rested you can easy shoot 1/2" groups at 100 yards with a scope set on 6 to 8  power.  With a variable 2 or 2.5 up to 6 or 8 power you have the best of both worlds. Lower power wider field of view. High power pinpoint accuracy at long range.

The general size of most dot sights is 4 to 5 MOA. That is 4 to 5 inches at 100 yards and 6 to 7 1/2 inches at 150 yards which covers up about the whole vital area on a deer.

If you want to hunt close range and shoot off hand I would suggest you get a 44 mag revolver with a 6 to 7.5 inch barrel and get one of those dot sights that is adjustable down to 2 MOA or just some hi-vis open sights. I started handgun hunting for deer 30 years ago with a stock WWII 1911A1 Colt 45 ACP. Only thing I did was paint the front sight with BRIGHT ORANGE paint. I limited all my shots to no more than 50 yards. I used a 200 gr cast SWC pushed by 7 grs Unique. I took only shots that I could place the bullet going in tight behind the front shoulder. Broad side the bullet would exit and most deer fell within 50 yards. I was poor and had a family to feed and lived in east NC were the limit was liberal and the pistol with my cast loads were cheep and it worked.

[S.B.]

My Ultra works great in semi dark conditions but, for such a long distance gun as you have, I would think a convensional scope would be better suited?
My $.02, Steve

[ole 5 hole group]

In my view you have a “specialty” handgun and a scope might serve you better at long range.  I just purchased my 1st red dot last year and it’s a “heads-up” display or reflex sight.  As you know the advantage of the scope/red dot is you no longer have to concentrate on sight alignment and that’s a huge advantage. 

The red dot I purchased is the Leupold DeltaPoint – the delta is 7.5 MOA and is fast on moving targets.  It does not have an on-off switch, which I like and it weighs half an ounce, which I really like.  I use the tip as my aiming point and I feel it’s as good as a 2X scope relative to accuracy.  I would think you would use the 6 o’clock hold using the red dot and when shooting with both eyes open, I see no downside to it.

When I shoot for group at long range (100 yards min) I use the Leupold 2.5X8, as cranking that puppy up to 8X you can see your barrel movement and time your shots fairly well.  Using the delta tip, my sight picture looks to be solid as a rock but the groups usually are larger but well within minute of deer/antelope.

I think you would be happier with a scope of at least 4X.     

[S.B.]

 

  I use the tip as my aiming point and I feel it’s as good as a 2X scope relative to accuracy.  I would think you would use the 6 o’clock hold using the red dot and when shooting with both eyes open, I see no downside to it.
   

Tip of what for your  aiming point? Why would you use a 6 oclock hold if scope is sighted dead on? I'm confused.
Steve

[ole 5 hole group]

 

I use the tip as my aiming point and I feel it’s as good as a 2X scope relative to accuracy.  I would think you would use the 6 o’clock hold using the red dot and when shooting with both eyes open, I see no downside to it.

Tip of what for your  aiming point? Why would you use a 6 oclock hold if scope is sighted dead on? I'm confused.
Steve

If you can recall back to your geometry days the delta shape resembles the triangle.  The very top of the delta/triangle is what I call the tip.  It’s extremely fine and is excellent as an aiming point for my purposes.

If you’ve ever attended/shot a bullseye match, most if not all competitors would take a 6 o’clock sight picture = regulate your iron sights, so that when the black ball (9, 10 and X rings for 25 yd target) are on top of your sights, squeeze and the bullet should strike the X-ring if everything goes as it should.
 
No different with the red-dot regardless of the dot size.  If you hold dead on and cover up X-amount of your target you’ll probably hit it but you’ll be more consistent if you can see your intended target and hold at 6 o’clock.  An example would be a beer can at 75 yards with a 4moa dot.  Put the dot on the beer can and hopefully you’ll hit it the majority of times – regulate the red dot to strike the middle of the can with a 6 o’clock hold and you should hit it every time and have a decent group doing it.

Nothing wrong with holding “right on” but I think you may find you’re more consistent with a 6 o’clock hold.  Kinda like shooting with one eye open as opposed to both eyes open.
 
Still confused? 

[S.B.]

I suggest you get away from cheap red dot sights and move up to an Ultra? Then you'll have a choice of dot sizes to match distances your shooting at. I have been a bullseye competitor for several decades and find for hunting a dead on hold work fine for me? With an Ultra I can dialup a smaller dot to compensate for coverup.
Was a grademan on construction jobs locally and am familiar with both algebra and geometry but, thought you were refering to some dadum on your sight plane?
Sorry for not being able to read your mind and any misunderstanding.
Steve

[Redhawk1]

I suggest you get away from cheap red dot sights and move up to an Ultra? Then you'll have a choice of dot sizes to match distances your shooting at. I have been a bullseye competitor for several decades and find for hunting a dead on hold work fine for me? With an Ultra I can dialup a smaller dot to compensate for coverup.
Was a grademan on construction jobs locally and am familiar with both algebra and geometry but, thought you were refering to some dadum on your sight plane?
Sorry for not being able to read your mind and any misunderstanding.
Steve

Plus 1.. well said.

[ole 5 hole group]

Naw, I’ll stay with my cheap DeltaPoint, as it’s currently working for me and I would probably only get confused dialing up all those different size dots for yardages.

As long as you know where the bullet is suppose to go with your sight picture all is well. 

Ever break 2600 with open sights?

Redhawk 1 - you too were thinking about "dadum" on the sight plane?  Now I know I have to be more precise in my posts.

[S.B.]

Alas, no. The closest I've come is expert and that wasn't yesterday. But, have had the pleasure of meeting such notables as Gil Hebard and  both Jim Clark Sr.(years ago at Perry) and Jr.(at the USPSA championships at Berry). No showoffs here, all were down to earth people, who would communicate with me on my level of ignorance.
Steve

[ms]

I have been shooing handguns for more years than I care to say.. but I have shot a lot of handguns with scopes and red-dot sights. If you have a good rest, and have time to acquire your target at long range, a scope will work just fine. If you want something for a quick shot and fast target acquisition, the red-dot is the way to go.. Ultra dot makes a red-dot called the Match-dot, you can adjust your dot size from 2 moa to 8 moa, at the 2 moa setting you cover 2 inch's at 100 yard and on 8 moa you cover 8 inches at 100 yards. Not quit a basket ball as the above poster posted.

I personally like the match-dots for hunting. I use the 2 moa for pin point shooting.

+ 1

[rybo]

I prefer scopes over red dots. Especially if your shots may be more than 50 yds. Scopes allow for more precise aiming.
I am also a fan of having a variable over a 2x.
But I've grown up shooting almost nothing but scopes on my rifles so I am VERY used to them, there was very little adjustment swapping over & using pistol scopes.