SOME OF THE MAJOR REASONS WHY TEACHERS CAN'T TEACH.

[XD40SC]

First you assume all students are in school to learn . That they all are sponges willing to absorb knowledge. Sorry that just ain't the case. In a perfect world that would be the case, but this is far from a perfect world. They are distracted by video games, the cycle of working to get a car than working to pay for the car. You assume that the students are like parts, molded perfectly to be assembled into a well tuned piece of machinery. But what  if the parts are damaged, How will the final product turn out- the more damaged, the worse the outcome. What damages children and further prevents them from learning. Let me list a few- drugs, alcohol, teen pregnancy, witness to abuse in the home, the one being abused in the home, no parents to guide them into doing the right behavior. I know children that say things such as 1. go ahead and hit me, my father can hits harder than you can. 2. I saw my mom get raped and beat by her boyfriend last night and many other such things. Don't kid yourself that these are isolated cases. A very good friend of mine is a pediatric nurse. I was literally  shocked by the number of child abuse cases she deals with on a monthly bases. Both physical, mental and sexual abuse. Yes, some teachers aren't worth their pay and should be gotten rid of, but many school are dealing with broken children. They[ the children] have greater problems than if they pass a test. They are in survival mode. And yes in many schools that is the major problem with education.

[torpedoman]

 I went to college in Az to get a degree in teaching because i wanted one to further my career, at the time i was teaching in private education (Trade school). Nothing they offered actually taught you to teach. I was a certified naval instructor and went through navy instructor training and they actually teach you how to teach a class, write and develop curriculum. In the navy you were dealing with the same damaged goods and they were further handicapped by an education system that had failed them
miserably while telling them they were doing great. I had to teach reading, math and study habits as well as weapons systems to
get a decent graduation level.   

[Old Syko]

Don't lie to yourself about any increase in percentages of lost or damaged kids over years past.  They were always there.  Times have changed and nowadays rather than keeping such things hidden, as in the past, they are brought to the forefront by people looking for someone to blame.  There does seem to be a higher number of teachers who have taken on the job for all the wrong reasons.  They're more worried about being supported by their unions and filling their own pockets than doing a job they have been entrusted to do.

It would appear torpedoman zeroed in on a major part of the problem and took it on himself to go above and beyond in order to achieve a proper goal.  Very few are willing to do that anymore.   

[gypsyman]

XD, I can see your point. Too many kids now days, don't know who there father is, or who there brothers father is, their mother is out selling herself for a crack/cocane habit. There's more empasis on a pair of Chicago Bulls tennis shoe's than learning. Thats the inner city kids. While out in the 'burb's, ma and dad are working 2 jobs each,(if there working), so they can afford the flat screen tv,new suv, or eat out every Friday night at a fancy restuarant. Not enough parents are spending time with their kids, and going to school functions,(and I don't just mean football games) to get involved with their kids education. gypsyman

[Old Fart]

I sat through a discussion recently that described the learning style of this "Millennium Generation".
It defined thier learning style and thier personality as a whole.
Quite different than the Baby Boomer Generation.

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

  I taught school for years..when I WAS in school I was one of less than 10 percent of my class that the parents had divorced..my last years in the class room more than half of my kids were from broken homes..as XD pointed out the problems children have today far surpass those of the past generations..look at the information they get from TV alone..Drugs,sex,booze, immoral behavior..this list is endless..I had kids that knew more about sex and booze in 10th grade than I did after I graduated from college..While you do have poor teachers, they are there because of poor leaders..One thing that has always bothered me..we have looked at education and what to do about it for years..the one thing we have NOT changed is school boards..the ones I dealt with were mostly concerned with getting back at a teacher, keeping tabs on their kids in sports, or the power they had in their position..mostly they were people who had little or no background except they when through high school..the problems with race never existed years ago..while teachers are sometimes in the class for the wrong reason, they can be removed IF the leaders have the guts to do it..mostly schools today are more concerned with sports programs than they ever where with education..I have been there I know..

[Shu]

I believe that a major problem today is the lack of a positive male role model. There should be 2 parents in the house. Not just one.

Also there is the way the thug mentality is glamorized by the main stream media. With daddy nintendo and mommy TV teaching children everthing they need to know at home.

[ironglow]

XD:
  I agree with much of what you say, except for one particular point, and that is where you say we/I assume certain things.
  You can see by the replies that none of us have "assumed" those conditions and problems any different than what they are.
  These are not unique to the public school however, employers, teachers in private & CVhristian schools, summer camp counsellors, in fact anyone who deals with young people have the same challenges.
   I fail to see where higher wages and cushy retirements for teachers will improve the situation for school students a bit;
and that is what the schools are for isn't it..the children ?
   I agree, thgere are situations which demonstrate the utter depravity of certain "families" or "arrangements" ou there and the children have all kinds of sin and temptations in their evertyday world.
   I don't know anybody's personal situation here and don't care to but tragically, I have noticed certain shortcomings by teachers which do not offer constructive support for the children...thing I have been informed of by students and some teachers.  Let's look at some of these dichotomies presented by teachers.

1) Teachers hasve been known to boast about having used marijuana. This in a culture which has a drug problem.

2) Teachers boast about their drunken "frat parties" etc.  Should never have done it, but still no need to brag upon it !

 3) They push the "politically correct" line, even if flying in the face of common sense.

 4) They will not always enforce points of common decency..manners, hats off in school, crude language etc.

 5) They back such things which are unpalateable to most parents..e.g. homosexuality, gay marriage, "gun control" et6c.

 6) I watch the teachers in Madison WI today..asking for and accepting bogus "sick slips" from a bunch of quacks.  Can such blatant lies and dishonesty be a good example for school children ?

 7) I have had occasion to visit schools in recent years and found the discipline and teacher control to be not even close to where it was when the US rated among the very best worldwide.  As discipline decreased, along with morals & values teaching...so our rating among the world's educational systems dropped precipitously.

As I said, I don't know how it is with anybody's case here, but in recent years there has been there has been a trend for  SOME teachers to dress and comport themselves in a slovenly manner. By conducting and dressing with dignity they may help to engender respect from students.
  Too often, teachers are dressed not much different than they may have in their "hippie" years...not good.
     
     Now, I have seen teachers through their unions, cry for higher wages, better retirement, more bennies, smaller classes and more holidays etc...all things to make it easier or more financially rewarding for themselves..
   However; I have never heard them to go on strike for more discipline, more teaching of morals & values, a curb on "political correctness" (actually, liberal censorship) and rarely for a dress code for students and/or teachers.

    All these years it may have helped, had we seen them go for the GOOD...rather than the GREED..   

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

   Ironglow, while I had some things to say about teachers and school boards, I must also agree with you on many points..I do not know about marijuana issue, I have not heard of that, but I don't doubt it is true...I must also agree with about every other item you mention, but the issue of control is sometimes limited by outside forces..I have friends who teach in St. Louis, and they have horror stories about a black girl saying the teacher just raped her, and everyone knows it is a lie, but to keep peace with the race  issue, the teacher is taken from the room..it is crazy..I doubt we ever see a better time..but lets hope so..

[Cabin4]

We can't expect teachers to be the kids parents and we can't expect parents to be class room techers. The public school systems by in large have managed this expectation terribally over the years since I ws in public school.

[Pat/Rick]

Well lets see, I came from a very poor and later on, broken home and didn't have many problems with graduating ( fairly average with a 2.7 GPA). I didn't excel at some classes, but did in others. I agree that its not all the teachers fault. Social problems can and do interfere with students ability to learn. That in itself coupled with some districts policies of turning schools into "mills" where no students are held back, for fear of lowering their self esteem is a recipe for disaster. Smart kids and dumb kids, the no child left behind has kept the smart kids from excelling in the rush to have the numbers of kids graduating increased. The feds need to keep out of states affairs. Proven IMO by the  Charter Schools ability to demonstrate more for less, and where apathy is rewarded by expulsion. If kids don't have self respect or know how to act in public you certainly cannot blame the teacher, but then, I don't want to see the state raising kids either. Alot of single parent homes in inner cities has been brought on by the welfare system. Man in the house? No money, baby in the womb? More money.

[ironglow]

  Ironglow, while I had some things to say about teachers and school boards, I must also agree with you on many points..I do not know about marijuana issue, I have not heard of that, but I don't doubt it is true...I must also agree with about every other item you mention, but the issue of control is sometimes limited by outside forces..I have friends who teach in St. Louis, and they have horror stories about a black girl saying the teacher just raped her, and everyone knows it is a lie, but to keep peace with the race  issue, the teacher is taken from the room..it is crazy..I doubt we ever see a better time..but lets hope so..
[/quote


  Oh for sure;
  Rotten games can be played both ways, and the teacher has a hard tightrope to walk occasionally.  My youngest brother & his wife recently retired from teaching in affluent, neighboring school districts.  Both teach in the health field and my brother has coached for his entire career.  He also coached/taught at Geneseo U. here in NY for 3-4 years.  He actually was called up on the carpet one time because he slammed a student (about250# and 6'4") against a row of lockers while stopping him from beating on a 100# girl.   
    The administration was running scared because the young man's ugly parents threatened to sue..instead of correcting their son.  Fortunately, a group of the students who witnessed the confrontation came forward and threatened all kinds of action if the administration proceded to persecute my brother.
    Still, I watched him go from an eager, young teacher very concerned with each and every student to a man who was first a union member and then someone looking for every bennie he could gather..seems like teaching and the students came only secondarily.  Still, he was rated very high among his contemporaries..
  My problem with most "public servants" is that when they are doing "collective bargaining" for more and more..it is them against their employer.  That employer is US folks, and most with the same skill levels in private employment...only get about half the pay & bennies the civil "servants" get.  Frankly; I think that is unmitigated greed because every extra dollar they get ..is taken from a taxpayer who doesn't get paid nearly as lucratively..   
 The boss gets half the pay civil "servant" gets...this does not compute..

[williamlayton]

You can't teach someone that doesn't want to learn---I am an example of that.
Blessings

[mouse]

While at a basketball game (100 miles from home) I was visiting with an educator from that school. He stated that in my area many kids did not know who their father was while in his area most kids did not know who their mother was. Think about the implications of that.

mouse

[Land_Owner]

Man-o-man.  My family is full of teachers.  Liberal Democrats.  I have my hands full discussing anything with them as a proactive Conservative, pro-gun, Republican. 

Some of the difficulties in teaching:
 - vast cultural differences
 - stratification of financial stability
 - PC administration not supportive of front line teaching
 - classroom warfare
 - pervasive liberal thinking
 - no support from home
 - "adults" at home are not smarter than a Third Grader
 - it is difficult to learn when you are first and foremost hungry
 - one set of clothes to wear, someone else's hand-me-downs, in a world of million dollar athletes and role models

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

  Land owner, you are right..Most teachers are so liberal they can't see anything as it is..THAT IS A SAD STATE OF AFFAIRS...

[guzzijohn]

Quote from Land_Owner:

- vast cultural differences
 - stratification of financial stability
 - PC administration not supportive of front line teaching
 - classroom warfare
 - pervasive liberal thinking
 - no support from home
 - "adults" at home are not smarter than a Third Grader
 - it is difficult to learn when you are first and foremost hungry
 - one set of clothes to wear, someone else's hand-me-downs, in a world of million dollar athletes and role models

You have hit the nail on the head with the above. An example, at a beginning of a school year before school started I needed to speak with a high school aged girl and went to her home. I had never met her or her parents at this point. When I arrived her younger brother answered door and got his sister for me. I could see her parents and another adult watching TV in another room. They never go off the couch to see who I was, what I wanted with their daughter or to introduce themselves. Parental support can make such a big difference.
GuzziJohn

[Cabin4]

Land owner, you are right..Most teachers are so liberal they can't see anything as it is..THAT IS A SAD STATE OF AFFAIRS...

I'm not sure they are all "Liberal" as much as they simply become servants to the cash cow that feeds them an ever growing supply of money & benefits. If you had a job that had over paid you, provided free benefits, locked in your job with almost no way to fire you and gave you 80% of your salary at age 55 retirement for the rest of your life with free medical & dental, you too might just become a Liberal.....Because this is how the Liberals are buying votes.

[guzzijohn]

Quote from Cabin 4:

If you had a job that had over paid you, provided free benefits, locked in your job with almost no way to fire you and gave you 80% of your salary at age 55 retirement for the rest of your life with free medical & dental, you too might just become a Liberal.....Because this is how the Liberals are buying votes.

Not in the midwest. As I posted in another thread here in the midwest a typical teacher pays hundreds a month out of pocket for health care, usually with a fairly high deductible, in my case my premiums are just under $500 a month with a $2,000 deductible. Oh by the way I pay extra for dental and there is no vision.
 As soon as I retire no more health care benefits period. My retirement if the money is there will be about 25-30% of my current salary and 6% is deducted out of my salary toward retirement. 
 Even with tenure I can be fired if I am not performing. Maybe not immediately, I will be given a chance to improve but if I do not met the improvement standards I will be fired or not have my contract renewed the next year.
GuzziJohn

[Cabin4]

Quote from Cabin 4:

If you had a job that had over paid you, provided free benefits, locked in your job with almost no way to fire you and gave you 80% of your salary at age 55 retirement for the rest of your life with free medical & dental, you too might just become a Liberal.....Because this is how the Liberals are buying votes.

Not in the midwest. As I posted in another thread here in the midwest a typical teacher pays hundreds a month out of pocket for health care, usually with a fairly high deductible, in my case my premiums are just under $500 a month with a $2,000 deductible. Oh by the way I pay extra for dental and there is no vision.
 As soon as I retire no more health care benefits period. My retirement if the money is there will be about 25-30% of my current salary and 6% is deducted out of my salary toward retirement. 
 Even with tenure I can be fired if I am not performing. Maybe not immediately, I will be given a chance to improve but if I do not met the improvement standards I will be fired or not have my contract renewed the next year.
GuzziJohn

Then you too are also paying for the those fellow teachers who are tenured in the old pension plan. As I wrote earlier, my sister in laws husband is collecting a $120k a year pension with medical & dental. You should be supporting Scott Walker.

[Pat/Rick]

Good points landowner. From my post before, I seem to have made it through just fine, while making the grade on about 45% of your list. Mom and dad helped a bit but not alot, instead they chose to teach self reliance and responsibility. My older siblings would throw me a bone once in a while, if I was really struggling with an aspect of school work.  My point being is, self reliance,self respect, and personal responsibility, the kids don't have it, and I don't want more gov't intervention to mandate it. That is exactly what the NCLB act has done, more enablement of an already broke system, and now its broken, more. Let the bums fend for themselves and lie down and whine about whatever excuse they can come up with. If litle johnny or suzee is to stupid or disruptive to follow the work send 'em packing. Let 'em sell drugs or turn into 'hos. If they end up dead in a gutter they can blame it on the system instead of themselves for not maning up.Why should my tax dollars go to support kids that want to hold back the one who want to achieve?

[williamlayton]

That is California Cabin--not the real world of teaching.
Blessings

[Cabin4]

That is California Cabin--not the real world of teaching.
Blessings

They have always lived & worked in the public school system in Illinois.

[Wyo. Coyote Hunter]

  Cabin, what you say I do not doubt is quite true, BUT this is true of all strong Unions..Not just teachers unions..for years teachers had no protection, now with the unions in some states it has swung too far the other way..

[Land_Owner]

Mom and dad helped a bit but not alot, instead they chose to teach self reliance and responsibility. My older siblings would throw me a bone once in a while, if I was really struggling with an aspect of school work.  My point being is, self reliance,self respect, and personal responsibility, the kids don't have it, and I don't want more gov't intervention to mandate it.

Noted points toward success Pat/Rick.  You had a Mom and Dad.  They taught self reliance and responsibility.  You had siblings too that helped.  And you are right that a bunch of inner city and kids from the 'burbs don't have most of this.  Fending for themselves is their way to cope with life.  They have no one to guide them, the school is not their "friend", and the mean streets are it for them.  What they see is what is on the street.  The street is their guide.  Should they stumble into something that would enable them to better succeed, the street will attempt to take that away form them.  It is NO WIN on the street.

When the streets in their city get too tough, they will move out into the 'burbs in search of sustenance and sustainability.  One day, they will migrate to your town/my town.  The "Lord of the Flies" mentality will be upon us.

Better to try, make the attempt, stem that tide, as best we are able with free primary and secondary education.  There are an awful lot of kids that CAN NOT READ even though we freely give them access to an education.

What is WRONG with our system?  It is terribly broken and I am NOT an advocate of the bleeding heart mantra: "Do it for the children."

[Pat/Rick]

Yes but in my post before that one I also stated that i came from a broken home (6th grade).

But then again, thats my point for the system being failed with the feds interferance. The inner city, who's yer daddy kids. The welfare system made it profitable for the dad,husband, man of the house to be absent, actually encouraging broken homes if you will. Man at home? no money, baby in the womb? more money. By what design or hidden agenda was this made law in the social services game? Was it to hold the black man down as is preached in the streets? And absolutely it IS detrimentel to society, but whats to be done? Used to be that those who couldn't afford college, or drop outs, for whatever reason, entered the trades or building professions. That is no longer real viable with our jobs being sent offshore. Often military service would give kids a boost, but now that is very unpopular with military often being viewed as 'loosers" by the metrosexual libtards. There is alot that has to be reviewed and addressed, but for now people just keep making excuses and sticking on band-aids. Not every kid is a winner or does a great job, just like before, we still have smart kids,average kids, and dummies. All the PC rhetoric and government "acts" is not going to change that. All in my opinion based on observational experience of course, YMMV. I am going to watch a film tonight titled "Waiting for Superman" It is  supposed to be a pretty good presentation of our broken/depressed educational system. Hopefully it will offer some insight and maybe thought out ideas as to what can help. With so many expounding european ideals, I have to wonder why we haven't mimiced their school system, done at 16YO, either stay in school as a pre college student or go to trade school/work. Anyway, I'll try to get my impressions down about the film tomorrow. Regards

[Pat/Rick]

"Waiting for Superman" I learned alot from this documentary. Some profound and what some would class as radical information. It is available at wally world and comes with a coupon/voucher worth 25 bucks to the school of your choice ( you get more than your money back that way). The areas focused on were WA D.C,L.A. and NY,NY (specifacally Harlem)  A few things that I learned:
 It does NOT matter where you, or what race, or if you come from a broken home. Though it is, I believe still a MINOR handicap.ALL kids have the potential to be college students.

 Teachers unions (two of them), are the LARGEST political contributors in the USA, over the NRA, big business, big oil, etc

 Teachers Unions will NOT allow change to increase the ability of teachers or their salaries to escalate outside of a tenure system. In other words give up tenure and be paid on merits of teachers ability.

 It is VERY hard to fire teachers, their were cases cited that bad teachers were fired only to be made to be re hired  with reward of a years pay.

 Tenure is abused outside of its origional designs/ intents.

 "Bad"  teachers are "shuffled around to other schools within the various districts. Because of schools being  almost powerless to dismiss them with protection of tenure and unions.

 NY,NY pays over 100 million dollars a year to teachers who are waiting "disposition". Paid to wait their cases out, up to three years with full pay and benefits while waiting. Again protection of tenure and unions.

 Most districts have a 28 step process to fire or dismiss "bad" teachers, while offering coaching and assistance. This process must be completed by january or the process must be restarted the next year. ( Maybe not the case in ALL districts, only in example presented.)

 There is alot more information and facts given in this documentary and I urge teachers,parents and grandparents to watch this, as welll as prospective teachers.AND our elected reps. And as mentioned you get a "chit" worth 25 bucks to give to your local school. A win/win situation.

To add, when our gov't creates education review boards to "fix" the problem as they have been doing the last 50 years, why do they not stay pro active and continue to work the equation instead of calling it good at the latest greatest knee jerk band-aid fix?

 Just my observations of the material presented. I would like to hear anymore on this if anybody else watches it. Regards.

[Old Syko]

That is California Cabin--not the real world of teaching.
Blessings

They have always lived & worked in the public school system in Illinois.

What Cabin says IS the real world.  It is in fact what we are fighting locally right now in rural Indiana.  Property taxes that are used to support the local school system have multiplied times 4 in the last 10 years because of these things.  Teachers unions are the biggest blight on the education system as a whole at the present time.  Sure, kids have problems just like they always have.  Many parents are complaisant and self absorbed, but not all.  This has always been true no matter how some choose to perceive the good old days.