Just be patient, the truth will often come out...

[ironglow]

  The NEA  (National Education Association) the largest teacher's union of all, knows already their chief concern is not the chioldren, not the curriculum and not to have the best education system in the world. It has sunk to new levels, and they don't care.
    What the NEA is all about is POWER..Power to contribute enough money to get liberals elected to high office, Power to demand and get lucrative contracts..and power just for power's sake.
     Very recently Robert Chanin, chief counsel for the NEA retired and he outlined these very facts in his farewell speech.
  Please note how enthusiastically the teachers in the attendance applauded when he said that the NEA did not hold any great concern for the children; but were very concerned with POWER and MONEY.
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-piPkgAUo0w&feature=related

[Pat/Rick]

Yep. The two teachers unions are the nations LARGEST political campaign contributers. (It must be for the children).

[ironglow]

...And they all stand in the audience, applauding when their lawyer starts praising their greed and selfishness !  Each wearing his/her little black & white T-shirt...looking (and acting) like pliable little herd of plastic lemmings.
   Take this short video from youtube and place it on as many website forums as you visit, the truth deserves to be exposed.

[guzzijohn]

That is why I only belonged to the NEA my first year of teaching and have never since.
GuzziJohn

[lakota]

OKay,,,I'm convinced... All education is at the parents expense,,,same with HC insurance...problems solved. Pay as you go... a very capital idea.


..TM7
.

That is the most rational thing I have ever seen you write. I dont have kids yet I am forced to pay exorbitant property taxes to support the local schools. I dont have kids and yet at the end of every year I OWE money at tax time no matter what I do.(49,000 COMBINED income for two people in this house) and yet people I know who only have one kid and are already soaking up tax dollars are getting 5K refunds and and buying all kinds of toys(none of which have anything to do with the KID THE ENTIRE REASON THEY GET THESE GIANT REFUNDS) while I struggle to pay for a $200 car repair.  I am sick and tired of this bullcrap.

YOU HAD THE KIDS SO YOU PAY THE WAY FOR THEM!!!

[Pat/Rick]

I'm fortunate enough that our schools here are paid for with the Timber Tax, from logging, not from levies.. But, with the demise of the timber industry that is almost at an end. Another good thing the lefties did for education. Save the owls, they're more important than the kids (teachers?) who will do without while vying for dollars if the levy fails.

[Pat/Rick]

Do teachers union dues rise with teachers salary? Do they pay more in dues when they get a pay raise? If so it could explain alot.

[Awf Hand]

There was a time when public schools were entirely supported by that districts' property taxes.  At some point, something broke.  Maybe it was when school buildings became surrounded by millions of dollars in athletic facilities.  Maybe it was when curriculum's began to require socialization skills for K and requiring 3-4yr old Pre-K.  At some point my local districts cost went over $11k per student to educate, and the same district felt it necessary to hire PHD's to oversee operations.  Like a lumbering dinosaur of a factory with more overhead than production capability, they attempt a referendum every year to cover OPERATING costs.
A number of years ago, the school in my area put forth a referendum on the ballot.  Essential staff will be cut if this doesn't pass.  English teachers will be let go and Math classes will have 40 students.  The community supported the referendum and voted it in.  The next day the phone rang at my office, they were starting a new program at the school and needed bids for install of LCD TV's.  A month later, the football field had a new scoreboard and the main entrance had an LCD scrolling marquee with lunch menus, special events, etc.  They also had hired a consultant to examine how they could word a larger referendum so they didn't have to let teachers go and increase class size.
My children do not/will not go there.  I pay for their education myself.  A school is only as strong as it's parents and I want to associate with parents who have a vested interest in their children's education.  Passive parents who blindly support referendums without regard of where the money is really going don't have enough interest in their own earnings and have earned none of mine.

[lakota]

Its not yours or anyone elses place to tell me I need to change my lifestyle or pick up extra jobs to pay my "fair share" My fair share of your child's education is ZERO

I dont need a second or third job. I need a government who realizes that it is not my responsibility to pay for other peoples' crap and  to consequently cut my taxes because of it.

When I look at my paycheck I see a third or more of it taken by tax after tax after tax. Local tax, city tax, property tax, FICA tax, federal withholding tax medicare tax, sales tax,  gas tax, vehicle tax, tax on phone service, tax on internet service, fishing lisence tax, canoe registration tax, tax on cable tv service tax tax tax tax tax tax tax bla bla bla.

Wher does it end? The money I earn IS MINE I dont owe a debt to you, your kids or anyone else and their kids.

And these miserable public employees and their unions that want a larger and larger portion of my income confiscated and given to them can go straight to hell.

[ironglow]

OKay,,,I'm convinced.....disband public schools immediately. All education is at the parents expense,,,same with HC insurance...problems solved. Pay as you go... a very capital idea.


..TM7
.

  ;
   Sounds just like the little kid who says..  "If we can't play stick ball according to MY rules..we can't play at all" !
     By the same token, you are trying to tell us that if we don't go on in the same old way; piling up  more debts, with our educational standards dropping every year in world standings...then we should have no educational 'ball game' at all !
       We've been playing according to the NEA's rules for years, and what have we gotten for it ?  We get teachers who are apparently in many cases, too lazy to teach children to read properly.  They have left the teaching of phonics, so a child can sound out a new word and gone to the easy-out called "whole language", which is basically GUESS AT IT !  Still, they demand more money and more benefits every time a new contract comes up !
            Surely their chief counsel was simply telling the truth in that video !!!

     So what's the answer ?  Elementary, Watson !   
       ....Any product is improved by competition; be it cars, cheese, education, guns, tents or bicycles !  The taxpayers pay in big money each year toward an ever increasing education bill; let each student be allowed X dollars toward their education. They can use it for the school they wish to attend, while the individual states  can keep an eye on standards with rigorus (and fair) testing.
     The students parents/guardians can take bids for their yearly tuition and seeing as some private schools are much less costly, any residue funds can be held in a seperate account toward the child's advanced education.
   Rates would differ regular students could be at one rate while special needs could be at another, higher rate..
   Competitive teaching and competitive bidding can only improve the situation.
  We KNOW from experience that monopolies are inherently bad. That is why the Sherman Anti-trust Act was adopted !  No business should have an "easy monopoly"...


   BTW...TM:  Back off of Lakota...Lakota is entirely correct !  Taxes are entirely too high already.  Here in the "vampire" state, taking into account all taxes, the average working person works into the first week of July...before his/her taxes are paid.  Then the working person starts to earn his/her own living...

[lakota]

What is the point in even trying to debate yet more delusions from way off in la la leftist land?

Your point appears to be that unions cannot do with less therefore if I want a better standing of living I can either work 100 hours per week or just learn to do with less-just as long as it doesnt affect the union member-sound pretty accurate?

[lakota]

Well look at it this way then-We need to take those unions down and redistribute their wealth that way everyone will be even. Isnt that the liberal way?

[carbineman]

TM7 wrote<There is tremendous wealth consolidated in Wisconsin...> End of quoted text

And it really grinds your beans to not be able to get your hands on it. Yuup the proverbial pot of gold at the end of the rainbow that you want by government decree to confiscate for your political/private cause. Amusing that it is all about the kids.

If your child can read this thank a teacher, if your child can't read this, thank the teachers union.

[carbineman]

So much for tolerance and diversity
http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/article_51759e18-40d3-11e0-bf62-001cc4c002e0.html

[Brewster]

Pretty sorry state of affairs when some folks are incapable of realizing who is really screwing them (and apparently making them like it).

[ironglow]

   Right  TM;
       There MUST be some money left over somewhere in Wisconsin !   Perhaps they can issue $1,000 jaywalking tickets, or take money meant to repair highways or perhaps grab onto some money meant for parks or veterans...anything so the unions can save face and will have enough to fund the Democrats' campaigns in 2012.
         Just look at the video I provided to launch this thread !     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-piPkgAUo0w&feature=related


       Now, I don't know what someone may have slipped into that lawyer's drink to make him speak truthfully, but he did make it very clear that the union was NOT CONCERNED with the children but rather, ...with power....and the teachers in attendance APPLAUDED him for saying it !
    Let's face it liberal, union apologists...,you've been busted !   MAN UP !!!
   

[bigMikeA]

Let's face it liberal, union apologists...,you've been busted !   MAN UP !!!

Yep....!!!   

but they won't!   

[powderman]

Let's face it liberal, union apologists...,you've been busted !   MAN UP !!!

Yep....!!!   

but they won't!   

YEP. B U S T E D. At least 2 principals have been fired in louisville over poor performance ratings. POWDERMAN. 

[Cabin4]

The point is unions already said they were going to take less-give more. You and the other rightys, Walker et al, are totally uncompromising...Walker wants the unions and current Wisconsin labor scene DOA, .TM7
.

I hope he suceeds. The unions are run by marxist and socialist pigs. The People are paying for thier outragious & uncompetitive pay packages while the country and the bank accounts of the tax payer are going broke.They deserve to be destroyed so that it can help bring back jobs to the US in the private sector non-Union run states.

[ironglow]

  TM says;
  "
Got that..? Here's a guy that feels put upon and it's everybody else's problem...so he wants to bring down everybody else who has a better lot in life because he thinks he's a conservative and master has told him to attack unions and other workers.  If they want to bring down state labor to WalMart level, why wouldn't they likewise want to bring down so-called private labor around the same time..?? LOL! Ridiculous..!!"

 

   Ironglow answers;
     TM;
   I think you misread what Lakota said (and I think you know it).  He was speaking with pure irony when he spoke about "spreading the wealth around"..which as we all know is a liberal/progressive idea, and we know who it's leading proponent is !  Lakota was rhetorically ridiculing the  entire liberal movent in general and these teachers' unions in particular.
  They are the ones who resent anybody who does better financially than they do themselves..  They are the ones who scream about corporate "fat cats"...but somehow don't scream about the "fat cats" who run their unions..making up to 1/2 million bucks per year..
   You simply must learn to catch the nuance of what our posters are saying, or you will miss much; most of our posters are pretty sharp !

[carbineman]

TM7 wrote in dark text, my emphasis in red text

Got that..? Here's a guy that feels put upon and it's everybody else's problem...so he wants to bring down everybody else who has a better lot in life because he thinks he's a conservative and master has told him to attack unions and other workers.  If they want to bring down state labor to WalMart level, why wouldn't they likewise want to bring down so-called private labor around the same time..?? LOL! Ridiculous..!!

Then you resort to silly extreme polemics in the same vain. Wisconsin's budgetary woes are apparently quite recently discovered.You have not obviously followed Cheeseville politics especially concerning our budget, the can was kicked down the road for far too long, now it is stuck to the curb..All I said is there is tremendous wealth in WisconsinAgain Show Me The Money, there should not be budgetary problems if they don't want budgetary problems. I did NOT say to put barricades in the streetsThere are barricades in the street I wiitnessed that first hand and cut heads of the elite wealth class consolidated in Wisconsin and seize their property and accounts....YOU ARE IMPUNING THAT I DID.  What I suggest is Wisconsinites look at their tax setup and get those with ability to chip in more help out at this time, which certainly is not too much to ask.Yes it is too much to ask from anyone, that is where we disagree. You should negotiate, which means agree with me ..rather than attack and takedown a middle class, infrastructure, and working people as a cover for protecting this 'tremendous wealth consolidated in Wisconsin'. 

Additionally, I suggested finding out more about these budgetary issues suddenly popping up. WHY? WHY NOW?, The can is stuck to the curb, actually frozen inWhat happened to the money? Where did the money go..? Who is responsible..? What does it really take to repair and get back on track? How long will this take? Is Walker and posse going to 'privatize' state jobs? (I can assure bidding on State contracts is a very funny thing at times). Is he going to sell of People of Wisconsin's assets or rights to assets..?  Specifically for right now, is Walker going to sell of operation of Wisconsin's various utilities to private contractors, is he selling off development and logging rights to state lands...I believe hidden in his Bill, disguized as a labor busting Bill, is numerous factors such as these. Please show us these things in the bill. I did not see them

Walker and krewe are not coming clean...his feet need to be held to the fire. If he said before the election he was going to adopt slash and burn tactics, be uncompoimising, attack labor and unions, only represent haves and have mores, give sweetheart deals to corps, and keep tax structure skewed for the benefit of a few fortunates...then I doubt he would have gotten elected.Walker said he would balance the budget and cut state spending, exactly what is happening. People like you are only objecting where it is coming from.

T-Partyer storm troopers So now I'm a storm trooper, why don't you get really into it and call me SS or KGBand other so-called made for Tee-Vee pressure groups,  only serve to hide and cover the real issues.

There is tremendous consolidated wealth in WisconsinHere we go again...their turn to help out now. People of Wisconsin, so-called conser and so-called liberal alike, are in the midst of a silent coup d'etat orchestrated by a few elites...Act up and dig deep....

..TM7
.

[carbineman]

Irony or not...it reveals some thinking processes....and why the attack on Wisconsin labor....but actually akin to shooting one's self in the foot.  The Unions are voicing an opinion that they are being 'scapegoated', a very very common tactic of the so-called right, A common tactic of the left is to put the wishes of a said group over the right of the individual. Is that what you are suggesting. Or are you suggesting those "with the consolidation of wealth" don't/ shouldn't have the "right" to be heard. Another tactic is to put a face or boogey-man up to ridicule and raise the ire of the mob so as to demonize the person and his vision all at the same time. Scott Walker may be the present face of the so called left's ire, but the problem has existed way longer than he has been on the scene. It will be interesting to see if the left can demonize him enough to turn public persception and sentiment.to perserve an enormous consolidation of  wealth in Wisconsin...which is one of the real reasons Wisconsin has budgetary problems because of a 'tax shift' to working class folks. (i.e. tax cuts always equal Tax Shifts to lessor represented folks). Walker and posse are the cause and speer point of this silent coup d'etat. Hold his feet to the fire...a very hot fire..!.and get some answers to questions as I suggested.


I think Lakota is capable of speaking for himself...so let him.

..TM7
.

[ironglow]

TM says;
   "I think Lakota is capable of speaking for himself...so let him.

..TM7






    Ironglow answers;
  TM;
   It wasn't Lakota's elocution I was questioning, but rather your comprehension !

[carbineman]

Irony or not...it reveals some thinking processes....and why the attack on Wisconsin labor....but actually akin to shooting one's self in the foot.  The Unions are voicing an opinion that they are being 'scapegoated', a very very common tactic of the so-called right, A common tactic of the left is to put the wishes of a said group over the right of the individual. Is that what you are suggesting. Or are you suggesting those "with the consolidation of wealth" don't/ shouldn't have the "right" to be heard. Another tactic is to put a face or boogey-man up to ridicule and raise the ire of the mob so as to demonize the person and his vision all at the same time. Scott Walker may be the present face of the so called left's ire, but the problem has existed way longer than he has been on the scene. It will be interesting to see if the left can demonize him enough to turn public persception and sentiment.to perserve an enormous consolidation of  wealth in Wisconsin...which is one of the real reasons Wisconsin has budgetary problems because of a 'tax shift' to working class folks. (i.e. tax cuts always equal Tax Shifts to lessor represented folks). Walker and posse are the cause and speer point of this silent coup d'etat. Hold his feet to the fire...a very hot fire..!.and get some answers to questions as I suggested.


I think Lakota is capable of speaking for himself...so let him.

..TM7
.

.
Scott Walker destroyed his own image..when the prank call pulled back the curtain for a closer look at his mind and supporters. Good luck and have a good time in WalMartconsin.... .  And start thinking about private school or homeschooling after this debacle...I agree private or homeschooling is the way to go.seven out of our 10 grandchildren will be private schooled or home schooled soon. The public school education just won't cut it in a few years, but has been getting worse right along.

 Likely, Walker never would have gotten elected if he stated his true agenda and tactics ahead of the election.Just like out last goobernor..and if Wisconsinites did their homework.The guy that ran against him was another counter-culture McGovernink like the last goobernor.


..TM7
.

[ironglow]

  Look at the video...you liberals remain ...BUSTED !!!


   Yes; my remaining school age grandchild has been home schooled and is attending Christian school this year.  It is a crime, that we pay so much school taxes...yet have to pay even more..just to get a child a decent education..

[lakota]

All I see here is the same two tired liberal talking points-"The consevative boogie man is going to take your cookie!" and "Either learn to live with less or work more, either way you are going to pay high taxes to support dead burden that happens to be the sweetheart of the democrat party."

Well I dont exist as a socail benefit to someone else.

[carbineman]

TM7 wrote, <<Walker and posse are scapegoating state employees for another agenda less publicized.  Just watch.>> End of quoted text

You may be right. Lets see where this all plays out. If only the public sector takes it in the shorts then I'll admit I'm wrong. If otherwise how about you? And a guy as smart as you knows the rich of both political persuasions aren't going to be affected as they are the ones that have made all these rules and regulations to benefits themselves and also exempt themselves. It is no surprise as to why Doyle wouldn't run again.

I did find the section about selling off state assests in Senate bill 11, but it read quite a bit different than what you posted. Though it did indicate the DOA could sell the power, steam and heat plants and put the proceeds in the general fund. Where did that info come from you posted?

For these government union workers we sadly had our turn, now it's yours. And yes TM I don't care, I'm living for the moment and looking out for myself. As long as the money doesn't come from me, I don't care. How is that for kicking the can somewhere else?

As far as the Wi. Senate Democrats go back and face the music. Take your cod liver oil and get over it, the unions already know you got there back, or is it about the campaign funds they might lose?

No one is going to change their mind about this Wisconsin Senate Bill that I can tell.

Wisconsin Department of Administration web address;
http://www.doa.state.wi.us/category.asp?linkcatid=222&linkid=23&locid=0

[Mohawk]

Just curious, Lakota. You see all the taxes on your paycheck? Sales taxes. Fish and Game taxes on your paycheck? That is odd.

[ironglow]

  We hear the Democrat senators and public sector unions calling upon the Gov of Wisconsin to "negotiate and compromise".
   
     I agree; he should negotiate and compromise...just as much as Obama, Pelosi and Reid did when they rammed through the Obamanation healthcare, the change on "don't ask, don't tell and the appointment of a half hundred "Czars"...
   
    Perhaps he should compromise as much as the Democrats did on stopping "partial birth abortions"..

[lakota]

Just curious, Lakota. You see all the taxes on your paycheck? Sales taxes. Fish and Game taxes on your paycheck? That is odd.

What do you want to get into semantics or was it just not clear enough?

My point being every where I turn there is another tax. Just because it doesnt appear in the deductions section on a pay stub doesnt make it a non tax.