Author Topic: 6.5-06 or 280 (Read 3778 times)

jmayton · « **on:** February 26, 2011, 03:58:50 PM »

Not that I'm going to be buying another rifle anytime soon since my 338-06 isn't even back yet, but if I was, I was thinking one of these for a long range target/antelope rifle. Which would you choose and why?

rugerfan.64 · « **Reply #1 on:** February 26, 2011, 04:08:24 PM »

280 shoots as flat as a 270,hits harder,flatter than an 06. 6.5 -06 would be fun to play with but I dont see a real advantage over the 260 Rem. I have a 260 and a 280. Both are accurate.the 280 really shines with handloads,but then again so does the 260. 6.5-06 would be alot of fun I have to admit I have thought about one before too.

Barstooler · « **Reply #2 on:** February 26, 2011, 05:50:59 PM »

The advantage of 6.5-06 over the 260 Rem is 200 fps with any bullet weight you shoot.

Obviously a "cousin" to the 280, it gets comparable ballistics with 140 gr and 160 gr bullets, which will have better sectional density and ballistic coefficent.

You said you were interested in "long range" target and antelope, this might be the rifle for you.

It is a very easy wildcat to load for, just neck up 25-06. If you don't want to mess with a wildcat just get yourself a 270.

Barstooler

jmayton · « **Reply #3 on:** February 26, 2011, 06:02:57 PM »

barstooler, I'm getting a 338-06 built, so I don't really mind shooting a wildcat. I'm not too interested in a 270, though it is a great round, just seems that bullets on either side of it generally have higher bc's and sectional densities. . . that's what interests me about the two.

roper · « **Reply #4 on:** February 26, 2011, 11:33:30 PM »

Quote from: jmayton on February 26, 2011, 03:58:50 PM

Not that I'm going to be buying another rifle anytime soon since my 338-06 isn't even back yet, but if I was, I was thinking one of these for a long range target/antelope rifle. Which would you choose and why?

Since the 6.5x06 may be a custom don't know of any factory chambering so would you also be building a 280? If not the advantage would go to the 6.5x06 since it maybe build around some of Berger VLD hunting bullets if I was build it and I'd also look at the 6.5x284. If I was build a 280 I'd do the 280AI or 284 using Berger VLD 168/180gr bullets and Berger makes VLD target bullets same weight as the hunting bullets.

I've got the 280AI and 284 and a barrel for the 6.5x284 so I'm pretty well set.

Well good luck

cwlongshot · « **Reply #5 on:** February 27, 2011, 12:12:09 AM »

I built a 6.5/06 some years back and am very glad I did!! First off, its a great shooter the 6.5 bullets are near perfect for long range shooting, superior to all others. On mine, I decided to leave the barrel a little long @ 27". I mean I built this for open spaces and long ranges, so that longer tube, aside form weight shouldn't hurt anything. It gives me a little boost in velocities.

I have a 280, a couple 30/06's and a 25/06. Goodness knows I didn't need the 6.5.

But I like different calibers and the more I read, the more I like the caliber. I looked at the 6.5-284 and the 6.5 mag but because I was building it on a 98 Mauser, a short case in a long action was a waste. I mean if your gonna carry a long action, chamber it for a long case! The BC makes them efficient at long ranges, retaining more velocity and energy than all other diameters of same weight. While the higher SD of these .264 bullets allows them to really penetrate! Its a win-win combination!

Its been some time since I chrono'd my loadings. But IIRC I was getting over 3200 from 120's, 3000 with 140's and 2900 with 160's. Performance on game has been stellar. The first animal I shot was a Corsican ram. I used a 120G Nosler Ballistic Tip impact was just shy of 300 yards. Impact was right on the shoulder, he spun around and dropped on his chin. Entrance was 30-35cal and exit near a nickle. Rams have tough hides but are small. This one was just about 100#.

IMHO the 6.5 flat out is ballistically superior for a long range caliber. As long as its got the HP to get the bullet moving. The 63MM '06 case will do it! IMHO, if your not looking at 250+ yardages, the 270/280 or even '06 you will not really see much difference in performance. I really love my 6.5-06!

CW

jmayton · « **Reply #6 on:** February 27, 2011, 05:30:23 AM »

cwlongshot, i'm confident with my 30-06 out to 400yds and my 338-06 is being built for elk out to that same range. I'm looking for something to reach much further, heck, my .223's are good on targets to 600 and if I ran heavier bullets even further than that so I want something that'll reach to 1000 for target work. I don't really think I'll take shots on game past 400 anyway so that's really a non-issue.

As for a built rifle or factory, for either caliber I'd probably go with an ER Shaw or find a used Savage LA and rebarrel it myself. That way I can keep the cost down, but still get the caliber I want.

Barstooler · « **Reply #7 on:** February 28, 2011, 12:50:24 PM »

Quote from: jmayton on February 27, 2011, 05:30:23 AM

cwlongshot, i'm confident with my 30-06 out to 400yds and my 338-06 is being built for elk out to that same range. I'm looking for something to reach much further, heck, my .223's are good on targets to 600 and if I ran heavier bullets even further than that so I want something that'll reach to 1000 for target work. I don't really think I'll take shots on game past 400 anyway so that's really a non-issue.

As for a built rifle or factory, for either caliber I'd probably go with an ER Shaw or find a used Savage LA and rebarrel it myself. That way I can keep the cost down, but still get the caliber I want.

If you are looking for a 1000 yard rifle you will probably want to build a 6.5-06AI or a 6.5x284. My 6.5-06 is standard and the only reason I did not go AI was to eliminate potential feeding problems. (It is built on a 1903/A4 Springfield with 1903 milled steel bottom metal, that gave me some initial feeding problems which are fixed, but I don't to take the risk of going AI because they can produce some [additional] feeding problems with my particular setup.) I have a friend who is building a 6.5x284 F Class rifle on an action that I gave him, and he is excited about getting it up and shooting -- waiting to get the right scope. Advantage for 6.5-06 (or 6.5-06 AI) is brass availability, however Norma, Lapua, Nosler, and Hornady are now offering 6.5x284 brass so you might want to go that route. If you do, build it on a standard action so you can take advantage of seating 6.5x284 bullets out where they belong instead of "into the case" if you constrain yourself with a short action. Either way, I think you will be pleased.

I like the 6.5-06, and built mine because I wanted to "retire" my 256 Newton. I was going to take mine antelope hunting last year, but got called away on business and had to cancel my antelope hunt. It is a tack driver.
It has a "sister" Springfield in 338-06 and a "brother" Springfield in 35 Whelen.

Barstooler

HogFan · « **Reply #8 on:** March 01, 2011, 04:56:50 AM »

If are not scared of wilcatting, then why not he 6.5x284? As Bootlegger mentioned, a little more speed and range could be possible from it. When I was in TX and MT I threatened to build a 6.5-06 AI.

jmayton · « **Reply #9 on:** March 01, 2011, 05:30:32 AM »

HogFan, I don't argue the merits nor the record of the 6.5-284 and I know it is far superior at long range when compared to the .260. But Hogdon only lists it as 13fps faster than the 6.5-06 in the fastest max load listed with 142gr Sierra MK's. I know that's on paper, but when the pape only gives it a 13fps advantage, the real-world advantage shouldn't be that much greater. I'd love to hear from someone that has two identical rifles in those two calibers and se what type of results they are getting out of both. I guess I just have a love for the '06 variants.

nomosendero · « **Reply #10 on:** March 01, 2011, 06:54:05 AM »

One source will show the 6.5-06 faster & another will show the 6.5x284 faster, that's because the 2 cases are very close in capacity. Optimal powders chosen, seating depth & other factors will favor one over the other slightly in manuals because the cap. is so similar.

So, performance alone won't give much reason to choose one over the other.
The OP said Target/Antelope.

For target, I would lean slightly toward the 6.5x284 because of the readily avail. Lapua brass mainly & alot of known loads to try & some factory Match loads.

For Antelope/long range game it is a toss up really. I would do a twist to the 6.5-06 since it is a wildcat anyway. I would run with a 6.5x280AI, which is easier than a 6.5-06AI because you would not have to fireform, just buy Nosler 280AI brass, neck down & go shoot. It will be faster than either the 6.5-06 or 6.5x284 by 125fps or so with a good deal of cool factor.

One other thing, for resale, going with a fact. round is allways preferred or if you pass the rifle down to someone who doesn't load.

Good shooting

jmayton · « **Reply #11 on:** March 01, 2011, 07:03:56 AM »

Ooooo. . . 6.5x280AI. . . well that muddies the waters. I kinda like it.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #12 on:** March 02, 2011, 12:18:58 AM »

I guess id choose the 280. Only 6.5 i have is the new 264 mag and i havent even shot it yet. The safe is full of guns in 7mm though and my 280 featherweight is one of my favorite rifles. Ive also owned a rem mountain rifle and a #1b in 280 and have killed a truck load of game with them. It may give up an inch at 500 yards to a 6.5-06 but i doubt it would matter much. Much easier to find bullets in the stores to load for the 7s and theres a much bigger varyity to choose from. and theres allways the lame argument that if your away from home hunting and loose or run out of ammo you can allways buy a box of 280 if theres a decent size gun shop near by. The 280 is one of those rounds that doesnt have alot of flash but just gets the job done. The 6.5s just never tripped my trigger. The only one that really interested me was the 264. I allways wanted one because its just one of those classic old western hunting rounds. Truth be told on that too is that the 7mag will do everything it will and more.

charles p · « **Reply #13 on:** March 02, 2011, 02:33:19 PM »

Why not a 280 AI. Mine is not the fastest feeder, but for long range shooting I would not think it would be a problem at all.

nomosendero · « **Reply #14 on:** March 02, 2011, 03:20:14 PM »

Quote from: charles p on March 02, 2011, 02:33:19 PM

Why not a 280 AI. Mine is not the fastest feeder, but for long range shooting I would not think it would be a problem at all.

Another good choice of course.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #15 on:** March 02, 2011, 11:38:31 PM »

then why not just step up to a 7mag? To me the idea of a ack. impr. is if a guy allready has a rifle and wants more steam out of it. But if your going to buy a new gun why not just buy one in a factory chambering that gives you the performance your looking for. Lots easier to resell a 7mag someday then a 280 improved.

Quote from: charles p on March 02, 2011, 02:33:19 PM

Why not a 280 AI. Mine is not the fastest feeder, but for long range shooting I would not think it would be a problem at all.

roper · « **Reply #16 on:** March 03, 2011, 03:21:23 AM »

Quote from: jmayton on March 01, 2011, 05:30:32 AM

HogFan, I don't argue the merits nor the record of the 6.5-284 and I know it is far superior at long range when compared to the .260. But Hogdon only lists it as 13fps faster than the 6.5-06 in the fastest max load listed with 142gr Sierra MK's. I know that's on paper, but when the pape only gives it a 13fps advantage, the real-world advantage shouldn't be that much greater. I'd love to hear from someone that has two identical rifles in those two calibers and se what type of results they are getting out of both. I guess I just have a love for the '06 variants.

What you need to do is get on a site and do some real reading on the 6.5x284 as a LR target rifle. Most LR 6.5x284 which included mine you get single number ES around 2950fps thats what you need for a LR 1000yd match rifle.

Most of those rifle were throated for those type bullets and you have a pretty good barrel and twist/type rifling vary.

Since Berger also makes 6.5 hunting/target bullets in the same weight and style why would someone want to start over with the unknown like the 6.5x06 etc as a LR match rifle and tell you the truth if that case was better since most LR shooter have deep pocket you seen that case instead of the 6.5x284.

I've only shot the 6.5x284 mine was build as a LR varmit/antelope also target rifle and I'm sure the 6.5x06 is a good case but some just don't make it as a match rd. there a given velocity range on most match bullets so faster isn't always the best. there a good article on 6br site about R-17 and the 6.5x284 way over 3000fps and there warning about those loads.

I've shot the VLD 6mm/6.5 on the 284 case and I've got some to try now in my 284 and the 280AI.

I wish you luck

Freezer · « **Reply #17 on:** March 05, 2011, 04:03:09 AM »

Every dedicated hunter needs to fill every nitch in his hunting terrain. I have a light lever action 308 wearing a 2x7 leupold for O to 300 yards, a Rem 700 in 280 Rem wearing a 4x12 leupold for 200 to 400 yards and I'm having a 6.5-06 built for a bean field/varmint/Target rifle. The first two are stock rifles with some touch ups weighing 6lbs and 7 3/4 lbs respectively. The 6.5-06 is on a 1909 Arg. Mauser action and will have a 26"Shilen light varmint barrel. It will wear a 4.5x16 Leupold. Weight should be about 91/2 to 10lbs. The long barrel will ensure all the powder is used and the best ballistics.
All three guns have their nitch and will be used as terrain dictates with the 308 lever getting the lions share. Weight is the biggest reason I carry it over the 280.
As for hand loading the 6.5-06 being a wildcat demands it though fire forming isn't necessary anymore since Norma is making brass for it. The 280 Rem is also a handloaders cartridge in my opinion. In order to get the best performance out of it you need to experiment with it a little. My 280 sings with my hand loads and the groups tightened up.
As for the 280 AI vs the 7 mag, I believe it was Shooting Times that had an article on that subject last month. The jest of it was that of all the AI wildcats, the 280 benefited most. It gives 7 mag performance witout the overbore and recoil. This was due to less powder being burned more efficiently.

charles p · « **Reply #18 on:** March 05, 2011, 04:53:58 AM »

Lloyd makes a valid point if you are buying a new rifle. If however you are building a rifle on a standard bolt face, and don't like belted cartridges, an Ackley improved can be sweet in some chamberings.

Fast chambering should not be an issue for long range use, or bench use.

WSM264 · « **Reply #19 on:** June 16, 2011, 05:49:29 PM »

I shoot antelope with a 260 or a 6.5 Bower (307 Win necked down). Longest shot I ever took was 282 yards. You don't need a laser beam for antelope. Just practice with what you have and know your trajectory. I reckon a guy could hit an antelope at 1000 yds with a 45-70. You would have to aim at the moon, but if you know your trajectory, the rest is elementary.
I also have a 6.5-06 and would like to build a 6.5-06AI. My 6.5-06 doesn't shoot as accurately as the 260 so I use the 260 more. Only 1 deer has fallen to the 6.5-06.
Nothing wrong with using either (6.5-06 or 280) on elk either. Use a heavy premium bullet and again - know your trajectory.
If you go the 6.5 route - get an 8" twist.

nicholst55 · « **Reply #20 on:** June 16, 2011, 07:39:15 PM »

One consideration for some people is that finding either a gunsmith with a chamber reamer or buying a set of dies for something like the 6.5-.280 (or AI) will be difficult and/or expensive. If you go that route, you'll probably have to buy the chamber reamer, and the dies will be a custom proposition. Perhaps not a concern for some, but it was for me. I went with a straight 6.5-'06 (6.5-'06 A-Square); my gunsmith already had the reamer, and dies weren't that expensive or difficult to find. It does everything that I expected and wanted it to; it's easy to feed; brass can be had for free (or very little); brass life is good (unlike most belted magnums) - in short, what's not to like?

Sure, a lot of cartridges will do essentially the same thing - .270, .280 (and AI), 7mm Rem Mag, etc. I personally think that the 6.5mm has both the .27s and .28s beat for sectional density and ballistic coefficient standpoints, so it's really just a matter of Ford, Chevy, or Chrysler.