Author Topic: Custom 45LC Handi Range Report (Read 6948 times)

gcrank1 · « **Reply #30 on:** March 01, 2011, 07:36:56 AM »

You might have an oversize chamber and your size die may be resizing to minimun spec, thus, a lot of gap between the two (and not uncommon). Can you try just 'neck sizing' to the base of the bullet used?
As long as they chamber extract/eject cleanly there is no need to FL size single shot cases.

Blackhawker · « **Reply #31 on:** March 01, 2011, 08:13:15 AM »

Quote from: Dinny on March 01, 2011, 06:29:14 AM

I hope that trying different powders and/or bullets will give different results and do away with the sooting. I'm not sure how much more powder I can get in the case, I think 26grs of Lil Gun is approaching 100%. ?? The Re7 looks promising, but I need to use up some of my current powders (H110 and WW296) before I buy more.

Thanks, Dinny

RL-7 is probably a good choice too. Under my 255 and 325 grain bullets I have plenty of room for more, more, MORE powder using HS-6 and/or 2400. I think RL-7 is a lot like 2400 in density so you'll probably be OK with it too.

To be honest, I tried Lil Gun a long time ago in my 30 carbine and my 45 Colts but went back to my traditional powders.....296 and H-110 for the 30 carb and the earlier mentioned powders for the 45 Colt.
I never was able to get full max literature loads in my 30 carbine without compression of the load. Seems possibly similar to your problem with LilGun in the 45 Colt.

Yak Angler · « **Reply #32 on:** March 01, 2011, 02:10:36 PM »

Hey Dinny,

I think you have solved atleast 50% of your problem by addressing the latch engagment. The only other thing that would account for 6" 50 yard groups from a rifle would be an overbore like someone else mentioned. Any starting load up to max load regardless of bullet type will have much better than 6 inch groups at 50 yards from a rifle. 6inch groups at 50 yards is a major problem with a rifle not a fine tuning issue like load development, forend issues, crown etc. My 870 smothbore slug gun shoots 2" 50 yard groups and to compare it to any H&R rifle ever made would be like comparing ( 870 is a fiat) and ( Handi rifle is a Cadillac) in an accuracy comparison.

Since you have already addressed the latch engagement and are investigating the bore dimension
i think between those two you will solve your problem as the trophy XLT scope you have on it is likely going to tell the truth as do most every bushnell product. and that tells me either the barrel is moving due to poor latch engagement or as someone else pointed out that bullet is playing army golf inside your barrel.

Looking forward to your next range report.

revbc · « **Reply #33 on:** March 01, 2011, 02:42:55 PM »

Dinny,
If it's any consolation, I didn't get my 45lc to shoot very good either. I didn't try to hard, but I did try some Lil Gun and it was so-so. Went ahead and reamed that puppy to 454 and with 36.5 grs of 296 behind a 240xtp-mag she'll put three touching at 100. Lil Gun has not done as well in the Casull, but to my surprise it does real well in the 357maxi behind a cast Ranch Dog bullet.

Bobby

BulletBrain · « **Reply #34 on:** March 02, 2011, 09:29:39 AM »

:)These 45's often have a very long chamber that almost accepts a 454 casull. I think this gap between case mouth and the throat is a problem at least in my 45. I take a starline case and trim it to the 450 extreme dimension listed in the 2009 Hodgden Annual Reloading Manual which I think is 1.340" but you better check me on that one. I use a BR4 primer and 32 grains of WC820 surpus powder (I think) which is pretty close to H110 and or Lilgun underneath a 200 grain FTX and I get 1.5" groups at 100 yards at about 2500fps. (work up very carefully) Recoil is still way way less than 45/70. It shoots pretty flat to 200 but is running out of energy out there because it has amost no BC. I also found a difference in the FTX bullets in accuracy. I tried to use the cheaper 225 designed for 45 colt but it did not shoot as straight as the 200 which must be designed for a higher psi cartridge like 460 S and W or better and can withstand the blast.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #35 on:** March 02, 2011, 11:52:24 AM »

The 200gr FTX is a 460S&W bullet, the Hornady 460 S&W 200gr factory ammo does 2875fps in my 460S&W H&R, accuracy isn't great tho, but like ya said, it has a BC that's not much better than a round ball!!

Tim

Dinny · « **Reply #36 on:** March 08, 2011, 06:29:17 PM »

I took some COAL measurements today using a Hornady OAL guage. It seems that my chamber is much longer now after the rethroating job. All my bullets are out past the crimp grooves when they touch the rifling. The 250gr FTX bullet is almost out of the case when it touches, it is way too short to seat at that length. Does it sound like a 454 Casull will fit in there? The way it is now, my 45LC COAL with a 300gr XTP is longer than the Casull COAL listed by Hornady. 1.8" compared to 1.746"

Anyone care to send me a piece or two to test? I'll load a dummy round to see if it chambers and closes in the action. This should get my bullets closer to the rifling and hopefully increase accuracy.

Thanks, Dinny

quickdtoo · « **Reply #37 on:** March 08, 2011, 08:33:19 PM »

I cut a short section of 357mag case to check the chamber depth of my 357mag barrel to see if 360 DW would chamber, kept trimming the section until it would fully chamber a 357mag round with the section in front of it, you could do the same thing with Colt brass. Keep in mind that with a bullet seated in the brass, it may not seat in the chamber as deep as it would without a bullet since the OD of a loaded cartridge is slightly bigger than empty brass.

Tim

gomerdog · « **Reply #38 on:** March 09, 2011, 03:29:24 AM »

I see you are burning the candle at both ends, eh Quick. Up at 1:30 in the morning, helping folks out.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #39 on:** March 09, 2011, 10:05:40 AM »

Dinny,

What do you need? Couple empty casings, dummies or loaded rounds? I do NOT advise shooting one even if it doies fit!

PM me your address again, I can help a brother out..

CW

rsl · « **Reply #40 on:** March 09, 2011, 11:42:12 AM »

My CC likes Blazer 200 gr. jacketed hollow points... These are the cheapest 45 Colt ammo out there... Shoots 1 1/2" at 50 yards with cheapo scope..

44 Man · « **Reply #41 on:** March 10, 2011, 03:34:16 AM »

Dinny, reading all of this I think you would do well to try a heavy load of pistol powder under those bullets. In Dave Scoville's book, he talks about many instances where the bullet and powder is mis-matched. A harder cast bullet requires a heavier powder charge to 'bump up' and shoot well in an overbore (or even Colt's oversize cylinder throats). It's even more important with a jacketed bullet. And sooty cases tell you that you don't have enough pressure in your load. There's an interesting article in Handloader this month that talks about bumping up swaged component bullets and even hollowpointing them at the same time. 44 Man

Dinny · « **Reply #42 on:** March 10, 2011, 07:57:07 AM »

Quote from: 44 Man on March 10, 2011, 03:34:16 AM

Dinny, reading all of this I think you would do well to try a heavy load of pistol powder under those bullets. In Dave Scoville's book, he talks about many instances where the bullet and powder is mis-matched. A harder cast bullet requires a heavier powder charge to 'bump up' and shoot well in an overbore (or even Colt's oversize cylinder throats). It's even more important with a jacketed bullet. And sooty cases tell you that you don't have enough pressure in your load. There's an interesting article in Handloader this month that talks about bumping up swaged component bullets and even hollowpointing them at the same time. 44 Man

I have never been one to hotrod any of my loads. The way it reads, I may need to in order to get better accuracy results.

Thanks, Dinny

Jimbo47 · « **Reply #43 on:** March 10, 2011, 09:11:31 AM »

I'm kind of the same way with my reloading and a lot of that may be a caution on my part as I haven't been reloading for long and there is a lot for me to learn.

That said I try to err on the side of starting loads and when I hit what I feel is a sweet spot I let it go as good enough, and I'm more interested in hunting loads than trying to put them all into the same bullet hole! I've done it a couple times but that was with my .357 Maxi.

Don't get me wrong by what I stated above as when I read post as those above, it gives me a little more confidence to push on!

44 Man · « **Reply #44 on:** March 10, 2011, 09:38:18 AM »

Dinny, you don't have to hot rod them, just use a faster burning powder. If not Unique, then Blue Dot or so, just something that developes the pressure quicker. Reloader 7 should be a good one, but go toward the higher loads. It still won't be a 'heavy' load or Ruger level, but it will develop the pressure quicker sealing the chamber and bumping up the bullet for you. If nothing else, buy a box of .454 cast bullets to try. I use a lot of the swaged lead 'factory load' bullets from Remington. You know, the ones in the 'standard' 45 lc factory loads. They are .454 with a small depression in the bottom and they bump up beautifully in my Colt SAA with oversize throats. I load them with 8.4 grains of Unique for the colt. They are fun to shoot, the accuracy is good from them, and they are still considered a 'full' load. I might get a little more accuracy from a cast .455/456 bullet, but I'd likely have to load them just a little heavier also. With the Colt, I'd just a soon not and these loads do what I want them too. If I want to shoot a 'hunting' load, I'll use a different gun.
So the idea is to try near max loads (but for the 'standard' 14,000 pressure) for your bullets or try a larger diameter bullet. If they will chamber, you might try some 250 gr bullets for the 45-70. My buddy had a mold for these that threw them at .456 and they shot great in the oversize chambers on an old EMF Dakota. Good luck with it. 44 Man

gcrank1 · « **Reply #45 on:** March 10, 2011, 10:04:23 AM »

Dinny, Im a 'comfy cast bullet load' guy and rarely get into the top end of data.
Ive had good luck with just plain base wheel weight bullets, as long as the dia. is big enough to fit that fire-formed case mouth, and about any powder from 700X, RedDot, Unique in about in the middle or a tad more of the loads listed in the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook. Once I get a decent plinker going I edge up looking for more beans , if I need 'em, and what 44Man says you can bank on.

Dinny · « **Reply #46 on:** May 01, 2011, 09:01:44 AM »

I've never been accused of being too fast....so here's the follow-up range report. Before I even shot, the latch engagement was adjusted allowing much better contact. I took the advice of many of you and combined that with Paco Kelly's writings. I loaded and shot several different loads with 2400 and H110. The 335gr Cast Performance lead bullet with 16.5gr of 2400 shot into a 3/4" 5-shot cloverleaf at 50yds. It should be nearing 1450fps. One fine member here sent me some of his 300gr cast bullets and they shot very well with 20.0gr of 2400, 1" for 5-shots at 50yds. That load should be yielding somewhere in the nieghborhood of 1550fps from a 20" barrel. Overall, the loads with H110 didn't shoot as well as the 2400. I also noticed that the 2400 produced less recoil with similar velocities.

I think that anyway you look at it, the 45LC isn't giving up much to the 44 MAG.
http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/handgun.aspx?id=347

Given today's results, I will load 30-50 of the best shooting loads and chrony some of them later this year for actual velocities. These should be great loads for hogs and deer out to around 125yds or less.

Thanks, Dinny

cwlongshot · « **Reply #47 on:** May 01, 2011, 09:51:54 AM »

Quote from: Dinny on May 01, 2011, 09:01:44 AM

I've never been accused of being too fast....so here's the follow-up range report.

I think that anyway you look at it, the 45LC isn't giving up much to the 44 MAG.
http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/handgun.aspx?id=347

Thanks, Dinny

Dinny,

I glad you have found accuracy in you fine looking rifle!! I KNEW it was only a matter of time!!!

Don't you mean the 44Mag isn't giving up much to these heavy 45 Long Colt loads?

The 45 Colt has been surpassing the 44Mags top loads for velocity, energy and its bullets many, many years...

Not to turn this into a 44 vs 45 post.. But, the 45 IS a 45+ in diameter while the 44 isn't even a 43...

Then there is bullet weights...the 45 leaves the "44" in the dust here too. Its got more and heavier weights and a better history of get them moving at respectable velocities...

There isn't a 45LC shooter that reloads who plays second fiddle to a 44mag...

CW

dpe.ahoy · « **Reply #48 on:** May 01, 2011, 10:23:19 AM »

INCOMING!!!!

DUCK AND COVER!!!!

CW is right ya know.

DP

Dinny · « **Reply #49 on:** May 01, 2011, 10:27:11 AM »

One thing I just read and have seen before, but forgot. CRS again..... This was just taken from Paco Kelly's forum. I forgot about max high density loads and heavy crimps for the H110. I'll try some of them again and see if it makes a difference.

H-110/296 need load density, ie. DO NOT REDUCE recommended starting load. H-110 likes about 10% compression for optimum performance. Remember jacketed projectiles will require a little less powder than cast to achieve your objective. These loads should not be used in a single action army or any single action army clone.

Thanks, Dinny

bikerbeans · « **Reply #50 on:** May 01, 2011, 03:27:18 PM »

Dinny,

Glad your 45LC is treating you nice. This gun legal for IN deer?

BB

Dinny · « **Reply #51 on:** May 01, 2011, 04:08:53 PM »

Quote from: bikerbeans on May 01, 2011, 03:27:18 PM

Dinny,
Glad your 45LC is treating you nice. This gun legal for IN deer?
BB

You betcha! I have already killed two deer with it. One with a 225gr Barnes XPB and one with a 360gr Cast Performance bullet. Both deer ran about 60yds before expiring from their wounds.

Thanks, Dinny

Dinny · « **Reply #52 on:** May 08, 2011, 01:38:00 PM »

Today I shot my best load at 100yds and here's the results. This is the 335gr Cast Performance bullet with 16.5gr of 2400. Velocity was lower than estimated, but still a respectable 1300fps.

Thanks, Dinny

bikerbeans · « **Reply #53 on:** May 09, 2011, 03:32:41 AM »

That would put meat in the freezer!

BB

gcrank1 · « **Reply #54 on:** May 09, 2011, 04:01:40 AM »

Do you have something like 4227 to try?

Jimbo47 · « **Reply #55 on:** May 09, 2011, 08:32:18 AM »

Since I don't have any way of measuring the velocity on my loads, I just use available data and shoot for accuracy, but I used IMR4227 in mine and had nice groups of 1 1/4" @100 yards using 300 grain XTP hollow points and 275 grain cast bullets over 18.3 grains of powder.

The lead cast shot about the same size group but different point of impact.

From what I read, and I'm only a rookie when it comes to reloads, but the train of thought is that it's not so much the powder you use, but the bullet when it comes to accuracy. Now for pressures and velocities, powders do make a difference!

Dinny · « **Reply #56 on:** May 09, 2011, 04:42:45 PM »

Quote from: gcrank1 on May 09, 2011, 04:01:40 AM

Do you have something like 4227 to try?

No, I don't. 4227 and Re7 are on my short list of future powder purchases. I'm moving in 3 weeks, so it may be later this summer before I even get a chance to relook another load. For now, I have 34 of these bullets loaded and they will get me through till I have more time.

Thanks, Dinny

Jimbo47 · « **Reply #57 on:** May 10, 2011, 03:29:19 AM »

Don't worry Dinny, once you find that magic load and the right powder you can then ream it to 454 Casull and start all over.

454 Casull= Heavier bullets

The madness never ends!

Dinny · « **Reply #58 on:** May 10, 2011, 07:00:14 PM »

How much heavier do I need? I have some 360gr and 405gr .452" bullets that shoot good in this rifle too. They are quite a but slower with Trail Boss powder, but that's a whole 'nother topic.

Thanks, Dinny

Dinny · « **Reply #59 on:** March 13, 2013, 10:34:37 AM »

Yesterday I changed my scope to a Nikon Monarch 3-9x40. The sighting target (on right) looks like it was hit with buckshot. I may have scope issues as the windage adjustment knob would stick and require more force to rotate, often giving me 8-10 more clicks than I wanted. The last shot fired was in the center. Since I only had the 9 shells in the ammo carrier with me, I didn't get to confirm a true zero. This is the group at 95 paces.

I need to go back and read through this string of posts if I'm still having problems and the scope has been ruled out.

Thanks, Dinny