Author Topic: Is Wisconsin the place where it will all start? (Read 8164 times)

carbineman · « **Reply #30 on:** March 01, 2011, 12:57:31 PM »

Quote from: TM7 on March 01, 2011, 02:03:09 AM

Something and some info has tweeked these police. We're not getting that info on mass corpo media at this point. What GB said...you may get what you wished for. Are you for citiizens or are you for the governmnet....?? apparently a fair portion of cops are for the people...thinking they might be next in line.

..TM7
.

TM7, I was wondering if you think the union police officers would have afforded Walker Supporters the same courtesy they bestowed on the union supporters when tasked with removing them from the capitol?. I am waiting for your answer.

powderman · « **Reply #31 on:** March 01, 2011, 01:21:09 PM »

Quote

Poor pay, immediate firing and replacement for any reason or injury/illness that hampered their usefulness, little concern for safety

HEH, you just described walmart. POWDERMAN.

Buckskin · « **Reply #32 on:** March 01, 2011, 02:51:04 PM »

Walker put out his budget a couple hours ago. You think the donkey's got worked up about the repair bill? Watch the fallout from this...
All logical cuts in my opinion and if the cowardly democrat senators would come back vote like they were elected to do everyone would better for it...
If they don't come back and pass these bills there's going to be huge layoffs in state/local departments.
Things are going to heat up...

Cabin4 · « **Reply #33 on:** March 01, 2011, 03:01:36 PM »

I hope they don;t go back. I would love to see this explode.

powderman · « **Reply #34 on:** March 01, 2011, 05:39:30 PM »

CABIN4. HEH, me too. Just imagine the impact accross the country if ALL dems refused to vote. HOORAY, we might actually have a chance. POWDERMAN.

Buckskin · « **Reply #35 on:** March 02, 2011, 02:52:48 AM »

Oh come one TMZ, your a Koch conspirator???

Check and see how much Koch donated to Walker or the Republican party, now check and see how much the public unions donated to the Donkeys...
98% of public union donations go to Democrats, who owns who???

I suppose the Donkey's down in Illinois haven't had any contact with the unions... The cops are just like the other unions trying to keep their pensions in place.

carbineman · « **Reply #36 on:** March 02, 2011, 02:54:16 AM »

Quote from: TM7 on March 02, 2011, 01:31:46 AM

Quote from: carbineman on March 01, 2011, 12:57:31 PM
Quote from: TM7 on March 01, 2011, 02:03:09 AM
Something and some info has tweeked these police. We're not getting that info on mass corpo media at this point. What GB said...you may get what you wished for. Are you for citiizens or are you for the governmnet....?? apparently a fair portion of cops are for the people...thinking they might be next in line.

..TM7
.
TM7, I was wondering if you think the union police officers would have afforded Walker Supporters the same courtesy they bestowed on the union supporters when tasked with removing them from the capitol?. I am waiting for your answer.
.
First of all that is a hypothetical that wouldn't happen ...as Koch government loyalist would not have reason to occupy the capital...they're simply protesting the protestors.

Secondly, about the Police that joined the Koch gov protestors...corpo media has not told us the full story. Are these police off-duty, on vacation, leave or whatever.? I'm assuming they are, and excercising their right to free speech on their own time. As for the others on duty, they have certain legalites to consider in spite of what their orders are....carrying out legally verboten orders are not legal. Kicking out citizens engaged in lawful assembley in their own government buildings may not be wise or legal...kicking out those persons up to hyjinks and disturbences is.

So,,,the question has considerations. But the fact that some of the PD and FD, usually considered governmnet loyalist types seeing things as black and white, so breaking ranks and joining the worker protests speaks loudly that something is up!!...there is something wrong in Madison besides self-preservation rights. Don't depend on corpo media telling us the real story unfortunately.

...TM7
.

I didn't figure you would answer the question. You must have been studying the politicians that appear on the Sunday morning talk shows as they run for political office. They don't answer the questions either.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #37 on:** March 02, 2011, 03:09:56 AM »

The problem we have here is that when public sector unions are at the negotiating table there is no one there to negotiate for the taxpayer. These negotiations are going on with the same politicians that they used union dues to put into office.

Buckskin · « **Reply #38 on:** March 02, 2011, 03:34:11 AM »

Quote from: billy_56081 on March 02, 2011, 03:09:56 AM

The problem we have here is that when public sector unions are at the negotiating table there is no one there to negotiate for the taxpayer. These negotiations are going on with the same politicians that they used union dues to put into office.

Not only that but school boards which approve contracts are loaded with retired teachers! In Milwaukee they have a pension which teachers pay a small portion, the school board approved a second pension which is paid entirely by, you guessed it the tax payer!

There are tons of school boards right now negotiating contract to get it done before Walkers plan is approved. That is why we need to end this NOW! The union never bargain in good faith.

guzzijohn · « **Reply #39 on:** March 02, 2011, 03:39:03 AM »

Quote by Buckskin:

Quote

Not only that but school boards which approve contracts are loaded with retired teachers! In Milwaukee they have a pension which teachers pay a small portion, the school board approved a second pension which is paid entirely by, you guessed it the tax payer!

There are tons of school boards right now negotiating contract to get it done before Walkers plan is approved. That is why we need to end this NOW! The union never bargain in good faith.

Can't get much more local power than the local school board. If your school board is loaded with retired teachers maybe the local voters need to change that next time around. Otherwise they voted them in and they deserve what they got.
GuzziJohn

Pass Lake · « **Reply #40 on:** March 02, 2011, 05:34:51 AM »

"school boards....loaded with retired teachers"......."tons of school boards negotiating contract" This is HYPERBOLE if I have ever read it and a total distortion of truth. As a life long Wisconsin resident, I know of NO school boards that currently have ANY retired teachers on them. Not that being a retired teacher would or should disqualify you from being elected by the citizenry.

Most school districts/teachers are trying to negotiate contracts before the Walker's proposals go into effect because they have been working without settled contracts from the past 2 years. When Walker's plan goes into effect it will be very confusing when applied in arrears. Would teachers owe the school district for insurance/retirement money that has already been paid by the school district this past year? What about payments the district has paid for teachers who retired in 2010? How would the school district recover that money? They can't take it out of checks. The best thing is for school districts to have their contracts settled and than go forward under Walker's new rules.

Pass Lake · « **Reply #41 on:** March 02, 2011, 05:38:18 AM »

What is going on in Wisconsin is this. Those making over $500,000 are trying to convince those people making under $30,000 that public employees making $50,000 are paid too much.

Buckskin · « **Reply #42 on:** March 02, 2011, 06:33:55 AM »

Quote from: Pass Lake on March 02, 2011, 05:34:51 AM

"school boards....loaded with retired teachers"......."tons of school boards negotiating contract" This is HYPERBOLE if I have ever read it and a total distortion of truth. As a life long Wisconsin resident, I know of NO school boards that currently have ANY retired teachers on them. Not that being a retired teacher would or should disqualify you from being elected by the citizenry.

Most school districts/teachers are trying to negotiate contracts before the Walker's proposals go into effect because they have been working without settled contracts from the past 2 years. When Walker's plan goes into effect it will be very confusing when applied in arrears. Would teachers owe the school district for insurance/retirement money that has already been paid by the school district this past year? What about payments the district has paid for teachers who retired in 2010? How would the school district recover that money? They can't take it out of checks. The best thing is for school districts to have their contracts settled and than go forward under Walker's new rules.

I don't know what happened to my last post but it never showed up.

Pass Lake,
Here's one for you since you don't know any.
http://www.jailbeta.com/article/retired-teacher-and-school-board-member-william-rehnstrand-pleads-guilty-to-sex-charges-787.html

And I'm sure the contracts are being constructed around Walker's bills aren't they. Under his plan, school districts can deal with the past anyway they like, they don't have to retro anything... The only reason they are doing it is because they are trying to cheat the system, typical union junk that has happened forever. And that is the exact reason they need to be castrated.

My sister-in-law is a middle school spanish teacher, makes over $75,000 not including benefits (which you forgot to include in your last class warfare statement). If I've heard it once I've heard it a hundred times about how she is paid a rediculous amount of money... My brother (her husband) has an engineering degree and is now a stay at home dad, because he can't find a job that pays anywhere near what she get, again not including benefits...

We can't afford these extremes anymore. If you teacher's don't like it your more than welcome to find another job, there are thousands who would gladly take your place for much less. When your looking, make sure to find one with summers off...

And even though your 500,000/30,000/50,000 class warfare propaganda is wrong. That $50,000 you speak of is a little low, now realize that they only work about 8 months (probably a little less) get full medical and in some districts full or even 2 pensions. Pretty sweet deal, and they know it that's why they are fighting so hard to keep their gravy train rolling. Because they now they won't find anything even close.....

billy_56081 · « **Reply #43 on:** March 02, 2011, 07:04:35 AM »

No what is happening in Wisconsin is that unions are negotiating with the politicians THEY paid to put office for higher wages and cheaper benefits at the expense of the taxpayers. Folks that are paid with tax dollars are adding NOTHING to the budget. The TAXPAYER is more and more footing the bill as the private sector jobs are falling further behind the public sector in wages and benefits. Nothing but a bunch of conspiring corrupt thieves. Parasites on America.

gypsyman · « **Reply #44 on:** March 02, 2011, 07:38:55 AM »

I know some of you hear listen to Beck, and he's been screaming the ''perfect storm'' now for a few years. Well, unfortunatley, I think he's right. What your seeing in Wi., the middle east, is only going to make things worse. We're just lucky enough, that violence hasn't gotten any worse here in this country. But, I'm afraid we're only in the begining of some pretty scary times. Hell, even Billy Bob Clinton stated the other day that food riots in this country were a distinct possiblilty. What we're seeing in Wi. is a pushing match between a very small percentage of people. What's going to happen when a couple million welfare folks run out of food assistance money, and they still have 2 weeks to go before the next deposit goes on their welfare card. Wisconsin might be the start, but, I believe that would be like comparing a strike anywhere match to a forest fire. gypsyman

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #45 on:** March 02, 2011, 07:46:35 AM »

In the past here when we had roits the roiters burned their hoods and stores. If they caught a lone person they would beat or kill them. They seemed to understand if they ventured into places that did not agree with their behavor they might not fare so well. I expect they will do the same in future roits and blame govt. I would expect some places people will block roiters out of their areas .

Pass Lake · « **Reply #46 on:** March 02, 2011, 08:24:50 AM »

Buckskin: That is 1 school board member out of over 4,000 in the state of Wisconsin who is a retired teacher. You said, "loaded with retired teacher." 1=loaded? No.

You state your sister in law is paid "a ridiculous amount of money". How much do you think a teacher with masters degree and 20 years experience should be paid? Or a starting teacher? What do you think these jobs are worth?

I don't know why you didn't/don't go to college and get on that "gravy train." Why would you not try to get into this great profession that you talk about. Offer your services to your local school for less money.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #47 on:** March 02, 2011, 08:31:50 AM »

Pass Lake , pay them no more than you have to . Pay them no more than they could make working in private industry . Include benifits and summers off in the deal. As for a starting teacher no more than she could make elsewhere.

Pass Lake · « **Reply #48 on:** March 02, 2011, 08:37:33 AM »

And how much is that? Compared to what private industry job? A check out at Walmart? An accountant with Grant Thorton? What value $$ should be placed on a teacher's job?

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #49 on:** March 02, 2011, 08:43:54 AM »

K-1st about as much as a day care worker . not much more for a gym teacher.

XD40SC · « **Reply #50 on:** March 02, 2011, 08:49:56 AM »

Teachers in the past got pair a buck twenty. Back than you could make more money in digging ditches or in the private sector than teaching. That is why collective bargaining came about. Teachers also had to pay some school board kickbacks to get a job. I know because I was approached to pay the board in my home district $1000 to be hired by them. I refused and wasn't hired by them. If a board member had a relative that was in need of a teaching job, a teachere was let go so the relative or good friend could get the position. Teachers were also let go if they were at the top of the pay scale and replaced by a beginning teacher for less money. These are reasons why tenure came about.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #51 on:** March 02, 2011, 08:59:59 AM »

In 1972 i dug dithhes for $1.25 an hour . No benifits . No vacation , no health care , no retirement etc. If it rained no pay , if a holiday no pay , get sick no pay. To be a union member you could buy a card for one dollar per penny for one hour pay. IE 15 dollars an hour rate to get the card you paid the business agent $1500.00 .

Sorry dude that dog don't hunt. Unions for public workers came about out of greed !

billy_56081 · « **Reply #52 on:** March 02, 2011, 09:17:50 AM »

I would still like to know who is there for the tax payer when they are collectively bargaining with the public service unions?

Pass Lake · « **Reply #53 on:** March 02, 2011, 09:25:06 AM »

SHOOTALL: Are you still digging ditches for $1.25 per hour with no benefits or did you get greedy?

Pass Lake · « **Reply #54 on:** March 02, 2011, 09:28:06 AM »

Billy: The last time I checked all working people were taxpayers.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #55 on:** March 02, 2011, 09:30:15 AM »

No I worked my way up thru the company , When they wanted tp split off part of the company to make it easier to sell I bought part of it . So any benifit I have I pay for

.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #56 on:** March 02, 2011, 09:31:59 AM »

Quote from: Pass Lake on March 02, 2011, 09:28:06 AM

Billy: The last time I checked all working people were taxpayers.

Guess you don't reconize un-documented workers then

XD40SC · « **Reply #57 on:** March 02, 2011, 09:37:52 AM »

My father never finished high school. He worked in factories his entire life. He was a wise man and like all parents, wanted me to better myself. He taught me" look at a job and if there are no old men doing that work; you don't want that job." I took his advise, got an education and a good job. If some of you weren't smart enough to do that- that's your problem. All the complaining here is just plain jealousy. Your sorry lament is -a person with a college degree makes more money than I. Here's some news straight off the press-the more education one has, the more they make. It's the reason children shouldn't drop out of school. It's about standard of living. SO IF YOU WANT TO EARN MORE MONEY- GET AN EDUCATION.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #58 on:** March 02, 2011, 09:44:22 AM »

An education dosen't always mean college !

guzzijohn · « **Reply #59 on:** March 02, 2011, 09:47:35 AM »

Neither is listening to Rush, Glen, and Sean all day.
GuzziJohn