Author Topic: Is Wisconsin the place where it will all start?  (Read 8505 times)

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Offline carbineman

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Is Wisconsin the place where it will all start?
« on: February 28, 2011, 07:13:00 AM »
Many of my aquaintances fear that some major event is near or drawing near. I believe if people have Beer, Nascar and Football,  they will put up with pretty much anything.

This from Madison, the biggest foreign country I've ever visited,

Wisconsin Police Union Members Threaten Insurrection

http://legalinsurrection.blogspot.com/2011/02/wisconsin-police-union-members-threaten.html




 There's a reason this blog is called Legal Insurrection.  An insurrection by definition is illegal, but that is exactly what some police union members in Wisconsin have threatened in support of fellow public sector unions.

The video below show a policeman (presumably off-duty but wearing what looks like a police-issue sweater with insignia) who addressed the crowd of protesters inside the Wisconsin Capitol building on February 24, and threatened disobedience to state government. 

Here is the transcription by a supporter of the police protest of the key passage:

"[...] This is not a budget issue! This is a CIVIL RIGHTS ISSUE! [...] Mr. Walker! [...] We know pretty well now who you work for! [applause] Let me tell you who WE work for! [points to self and police emblem] We work for all of these people! [applause] We are not here, Mr. Walker, to do your bidding! We are here to do their bidding! [...] Mr. Walker, this not your House! This is all of our House! [camera pans 360°]"

It gets worse. 

Although there is no video of it, according to a protester from inside the Capitol, the police union members more generally threatened to disobey any future orders to clear protesters from the building, currently expected to take place at 4 p.m. on Sunday, February 27:

From inside the Wisconsin State Capitol, RAN ally Ryan Harvey reports:

“Hundreds of cops have just marched into the Wisconsin state capitol building to protest the anti-Union bill, to massive applause. They now join up to 600 people who are inside.”
Ryan reported on his Facebook page earlier today [2-25-2011]:


“Police have just announced to the crowds inside the occupied State Capitol of Wisconsin: ‘We have been ordered by the legislature to kick you all out at 4:00 today. But we know what’s right from wrong. We will not be kicking anyone out, in fact, we will be sleeping here with you!’ Unreal.
Here are the protester's tweets (here and here) at the time of the police union announcement:




To the extent the policeman in the video above, while off duty, wished to participate in the political process, that was fine. But the policeman went much further, and suggested to the protesters that he would disobey the Governor.  The announcement by the police union members that they would refuse an order from the legislature to evict the protesters from the building also went far beyond mere political speech.

It's unclear to me what the lines of command are in Wisconsin, and whether the departments in which these policemen work ultimately are under the control of the Governor and/or legislature.  Clearly, the Governor does control the National Guard.  Regardless, the police union members involved have actively advocated and offered to participate in insurrection against the legal authority in Wisconsin. 

More than anything, this shows the dangers of public sector unions.  Those who work for the state occupy a different position than those who work in the private sector because they carry the weight of state authority.  When those state workers are in law enforcement, they carry special obligations not to use their positions for political purposes.

When an off-duty policeman wearing police insignia takes a megaphone and announces that he and his fellow police union members will disobey orders, that policeman -- at a minimum -- has dishonored his pledge to uphold the law.

It appears that by the end of today we will know whether the police union members' talk of insurrection was bluster (which I suspect is the case), or if they really will risk their careers by disobeying lawful orders from legitimate and duly elected state authority.

Update: The Daily Mail identifies the insignia worn by the policeman in the video as a Madison Police Department badge:





Offline beerbelly

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Re: Is Wisconsin the place where it will all start?
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2011, 08:52:59 AM »
Maybe he needs to call out the national guard and remove everyone from the capital, epically the rotten cops! Then fire everyone of them after they get out of jail!

Offline Junior1942

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Re: Is Wisconsin the place where it will all start?
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2011, 09:49:58 AM »
Maybe he needs to call out the national guard and remove everyone from the capital, epically the rotten cops! Then fire everyone of them after they get out of jail!
Wow. I agree with you. I can't believe it.....

Offline beerbelly

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Re: Is Wisconsin the place where it will all start?
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2011, 09:54:47 AM »
Yep, one for the books Junior

Offline Buckskin

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Re: Is Wisconsin the place where it will all start?
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2011, 09:59:26 AM »
Walker has already had the national guard inspect a nearby prison to hold the law breakers if needed.  Any cop who has a sworn duty to uphold the law, who even speaks of the possibility of insurrection has no business wearing a badge anymore.  Fire them all, I know of several recent academy grad's that would gladly live in the real world and pay for insurance and contribute to their retirement fund.
Buckskin

"I have tried to live my life so that my family would love me and my friends respect me. The others can do whatever the hell they please.   --John Wayne

Offline Cabin4

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Re: Is Wisconsin the place where it will all start?
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2011, 10:22:45 AM »
Terminate their jobs. There are people in the unemployment lines waiting for a job. And I agree. Any cop who refuses to carry out this kind of order, should be stripped of his badge. It like they are ordering him to beat or kill people or do anything illegal or anything that could remotely be construed as illegal.
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Offline scratcherky

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Re: Is Wisconsin the place where it will all start?
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2011, 10:38:56 AM »
President Reagan has already laid the ground work for this when the air traffic controllers refused to perform their duties. FIRE ALL OF THEM!
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Offline powderman

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Re: Is Wisconsin the place where it will all start?
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2011, 11:52:55 AM »
Agreed, fire them all. This is serious business when leos refuse to enforce the law, kinda like what the obamination is doing in AZ aiding and abetting the criminals. POWDERMAN.  >:( >:(
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
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Offline Cabin4

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Re: Is Wisconsin the place where it will all start?
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2011, 12:25:34 PM »
kinda like what the obamination is doing in AZ aiding and abetting the criminals. POWDERMAN.  >:( >:(

Agree 100%. You hit the nail on the head with that PM.
+1
Avery Hayden Wallace
Obama Administration: A corrupt criminal enterprise of bold face liars.
The States formed the Union. The Union did not form the States. States Rights!
GET US OUT OF THE UN. NO ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT!
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Offline billy_56081

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Re: Is Wisconsin the place where it will all start?
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2011, 02:44:14 PM »
Parasites. Send in the guard. These people are nothing but lice and tapeworms on America.
99% of all Lawyers give the other 1% a bad name. What I find hilarious about this is they are such an arrogant bunch, that they all think they are in the 1%.

Offline 1marty

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Re: Is Wisconsin the place where it will all start?
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2011, 03:29:44 PM »
I'm probably in the minority but the unions want to preserve collective bargaining-they are not protesting against give backs.

Offline carbineman

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Re: Is Wisconsin the place where it will all start?
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2011, 03:47:57 PM »
1marty, you are indeed in the minority here, but knock yourself out trying to convince us. It's like wetting your pants that are dark blue in color, it gives you a nice warm feeling but nobody notices and for the most part nobody cares. And nobody seems to be changing their mind.

Offline powderman

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Re: Is Wisconsin the place where it will all start?
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2011, 04:44:45 PM »
HEH, on the bright side, the dems have left the state, Kentucky should be so lucky. They finally did something FOR the people. POWDERMAN.  :D :D ;) ;)
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline Graybeard

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Re: Is Wisconsin the place where it will all start?
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2011, 06:14:12 PM »
Be careful (VERY CAREFUL) what you ask for. You might get it.

This are cops refusing to obey an order they think is wrong and you want to fire them. What will you say when that order they know is wrong is to come to YOUR house and take YOUR guns?

Are you then gonna scream foul cuz they do what you think they should be doing here?

I'm not taking sides in the matter as I don't know the facts but blind obedience to orders from the higher ups is what has put this nation in the mess we're in rat now. I think to get it turned around (if that's even possible) is gonna take a whole lotta folks saying "hell no we're not gonna take it any longer".

I dunno if this is one of those times they should or should not do as told but think real hard about wanting more laws passed. We already have way more than we need and more is not an answer.


Bill aka the Graybeard
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I am not a lawyer and do not give legal advice.

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Offline Junior1942

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Re: Is Wisconsin the place where it will all start?
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2011, 02:21:57 AM »
Those cops have the mindset of many union members of my past acquaintance--they work for the unions, not the company.  In the case of the cops, they work for the union, not the people.   Fire them.

Offline powderman

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Re: Is Wisconsin the place where it will all start?
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2011, 03:23:16 AM »
No more laws needed, too many now. If a cop refuses to enforce the law for the right reasons thats one thing, but to refuse to be able to force a political agenda is another. Refusing to obey an order to boost the strength of their union is wrong. POWDERMAN.  :o :o :o :o :o :o
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline carbineman

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Re: Is Wisconsin the place where it will all start?
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2011, 03:49:47 AM »
While it is good to know that certain LEOS could "stand down" like those union backers in this case did, I am 99% certain these same LEOS that are backing the unions here in Madtown would not hesitate to disarm you given any possible chance. Heck many LEOS here in Cheeseville have and would arrest you for open carry on your own property.

The Cheeseville court system is increasingly hearing cases where LEOS arrested a open carry citizen and then had to backtrack bigtime losing the court case and then the government entity they had jurisdiction in ended up paying for their misstep/brainfade. They do not hesitate to overstep legality in these cases.

The attitude of the police force in this state is anti-gun and anti freedom for the most part. Don't even get me started about the state patrol and trucks for commerce.

Here in Wisconsin the "fighting Bob LaFollette spirit" is alive and well if your a liberal, but if you believe in the "whole" Constitution, Wisconsin is a tough place to reside. Most of these same demonstrators now in Madtown would take the parchment the 2nd Amendment is written on and wipe their arse right in front of you. These are the Hoo-Ray for me and Screw You crowd operating at their best. Now though they just can't handle "their" so called rights being messed with.

Don't think for a minute you could get any of these people to attend a Pro 2nd Amendment demonstration. Well, That's the view from the boonies here in Cheeseville.

Offline Cabin4

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Re: Is Wisconsin the place where it will all start?
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2011, 05:25:56 AM »
The cops are not being asked to do anything immoral, unethical, illegal or unconstitutional. They are not being asked to beat or shoot people. They are not being ordered into people homes without warrant. Ect. You ge the point. They are simply being asked to clear people out of the Capitol building. People are sleeping in the place for many nights now. They have dragged in mattresses. the place is a disgusting mess. Demonstrations are fine. But we all have to follow the rules, including unions.
Avery Hayden Wallace
Obama Administration: A corrupt criminal enterprise of bold face liars.
The States formed the Union. The Union did not form the States. States Rights!
GET US OUT OF THE UN. NO ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT!
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Offline guzzijohn

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Re: Is Wisconsin the place where it will all start?
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2011, 05:44:52 AM »
For what it is worth the majority public opinion throughout the USA is siding with the unions, especially on collective bargaining rights and against the governor's position. What is happening is that many liked the campaign rhetoric to cut spending, lower taxes, blah, blah, blah until attempts are made to actually do it, then no one wants it in their back yard.
GuzziJohn

Offline Cabin4

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Re: Is Wisconsin the place where it will all start?
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2011, 06:37:11 AM »
For what it is worth the majority public opinion throughout the USA is siding with the unions, especially on collective bargaining rights and against the governor's position. What is happening is that many liked the campaign rhetoric to cut spending, lower taxes, blah, blah, blah until attempts are made to actually do it, then no one wants it in their back yard.
GuzziJohn

Im not sure I agree with this. The people of wisconsin still have a huge budget problem. In the end, walker wiil be judged on his leadership and ability to fix the problems he was elected to fix. 4 years from now, the only pissed off voters will be the unions which never supported him or voted for him.
Avery Hayden Wallace
Obama Administration: A corrupt criminal enterprise of bold face liars.
The States formed the Union. The Union did not form the States. States Rights!
GET US OUT OF THE UN. NO ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT!
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Offline beerbelly

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Re: Is Wisconsin the place where it will all start?
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2011, 06:40:54 AM »
They had one poll run by the unions , all the other polls say just the opposite!

Offline carbineman

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Re: Is Wisconsin the place where it will all start?
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2011, 06:48:12 AM »
Billy and beerbelly, I agree with your posts on the polling data showing most are against the union employees.

Offline powderman

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Re: Is Wisconsin the place where it will all start?
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2011, 06:48:20 AM »
Guzzi I believe you are forwarding a lie. A majority of polls support the governor.




BILLY. YEP, musta come from dnc hdqtrs. POWDERMAN.  :o :o
Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

Only half the people leave an abortion clinic alive.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAiOEV0v2RM
What part of ILLEGAL is so hard to understand???
I learned everything about islam I need to know on 9-11-01.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDqmy1cSqgo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_u9kieqGppE&feature=related
http://www.illinois.gov/gov/contactthegovernor.cfm

Offline Cabin4

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Re: Is Wisconsin the place where it will all start?
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2011, 06:50:47 AM »
They had one poll run by the unions , all the other polls say just the opposite!
Only the communist unions would be dumb enough to try and pull that off.
Avery Hayden Wallace
Obama Administration: A corrupt criminal enterprise of bold face liars.
The States formed the Union. The Union did not form the States. States Rights!
GET US OUT OF THE UN. NO ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT!
S.A.S.S/NRA Life Member/2nd Amendment Foundation
CCRKBA/Gun Owners of America
California Rifle & Pistol Association
Ron Paul Was Right!
Long Live the King! #3

Offline guzzijohn

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Re: Is Wisconsin the place where it will all start?
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2011, 07:00:50 AM »
Guess we will see. So far polls for the unions are reported:
Washington Post
CBS
USA Today
Huffington Post
Gallup Survey

Poll supporting the governor:
Rasmussen,  and not by much.

GuzziJohn

Offline wncchester

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Re: Is Wisconsin the place where it will all start?
« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2011, 07:09:28 AM »
" Let me tell you who WE work for! [points to self and police emblem"

All the 'public service' people live in a cocoon that feels it's the duty of tax payers work for them, NOT the other way around.

Labor unions started when businesses exploited workers badly.  Poor pay, immediate firing and replacement for any reason or injury/illness that hampered their usefulness, little concern for safety was often the norm so the public tended to support the workers.   NONE of that applied to gobbermunt "workers" and all they wanted was more pay and better benefits, and they have really gotten both.  Politicians at all levels recognised that gov. unions would vote for them, contribute money and do 'volunteer' campaign work IF the pols gave them ever increasing amounts of the tax payers earnings; it's gone on for so long the unions actually do believe it's their "right" to be well compensated AND impervious to changing economic conditions that affect the rest of us. 

The union members may take polls by going home and asking their familes who they support if they wish and the Dem's lock-step "news media" can portray things as poorly as they wish but the suffering public is tired of being taken for fools.  Those politicians who struggle and do everything in their power to keep their fat supporting gov union parasites happy and well fed are going to feel the wrath of the voting public themselves. 

POWER TO THE PEOPLE, not the public union's fat cats and their politicans!
Common sense is an uncommon virtue

Offline jimster

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Re: Is Wisconsin the place where it will all start?
« Reply #26 on: March 01, 2011, 09:41:49 AM »
It's happening here in this state as well (Mi)...Unions dumping massive amounts of money to get people elected is leaving a stench in the air.

They printed an article in the paper tonight...it's pretty much the way it is. 

http://townhall.com/columnists/lindachavez/2011/02/25/union_backlash

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Is Wisconsin the place where it will all start?
« Reply #27 on: March 01, 2011, 10:00:10 AM »
The Va. state police refused to write tickets for not using a turn signal. The law stated citizens of the state would be fined $1000.00 or such out of state drivers would get a lower fine . The law was over turned later.  GB has a good point !
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline SHOOTALL

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Re: Is Wisconsin the place where it will all start?
« Reply #28 on: March 01, 2011, 10:01:38 AM »
I would like also to know if police are required to act ? Or if they have a choice ?
If ya can see it ya can hit it !

Offline Cabin4

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Re: Is Wisconsin the place where it will all start?
« Reply #29 on: March 01, 2011, 11:40:08 AM »
They had one poll run by the unions , all the other polls say just the opposite!
Only the communist unions would be dumb enough to try and pull that off.
Avery Hayden Wallace
Obama Administration: A corrupt criminal enterprise of bold face liars.
The States formed the Union. The Union did not form the States. States Rights!
GET US OUT OF THE UN. NO ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT!
S.A.S.S/NRA Life Member/2nd Amendment Foundation
CCRKBA/Gun Owners of America
California Rifle & Pistol Association
Ron Paul Was Right!
Long Live the King! #3