Is Wisconsin the place where it will all start?

[XD40SC]

An education dosen't always mean college !

You are 100% correct. Trade schools are excellent as is learning on the job from a good teacher. Why do people go to trade schools? To get an education in a trade so they can make more money. EDUCATION= MORE MONEY

[SHOOTALL]

That'd fer sure ! BTW I went to college and learned a trade at the same time . The trade ( an education ) has put way more money in my pocket ! Its not what you can do its what you do that counts . Prove yourself and work up . The idea of paying because everyone else gets that pay is stupid to me. If you get the same pay as the guy with 20 years experince and can't do what he can why even try to learn ?

[Buckskin]

Buckskin:  That is 1 school board member out of over 4,000 in the state of Wisconsin who is a retired teacher.  You said, "loaded with retired teacher."  1=loaded?  No.

You state your sister in law is paid "a ridiculous amount of money".  How much do you think a teacher with masters degree and 20 years experience should be paid? Or a starting teacher?  What do you think these jobs are worth?

I don't know why you didn't/don't go to college and get on that "gravy train."  Why would you not try to get into this great profession that you talk about.  Offer your services to your local school for less money.

So you think that there is only 1???  It was my comment, you disprove it. You said you didn't know of any, I gave you one... I don't know any astronaut's either, must not be any...

My sister-in-law does have her masters, but has been teaching for 7 years. Too much.  When there are hundreds of people applying for 1 teaching job or 1 principal job... Guess what, being paid too much.  If a private company wants to pay that much, fine.  They have a budget they need to obey, or they go broke.  Time for the state to start running like a business.  The new school choice plan from Walker will help push this mess in the right direction.

And I did go to college, but I decided to go on my own and start my own business.  Maybe you should try that when your gravy dries up...

[dukkillr]

An education dosen't always mean college !

You are 100% correct. Trade schools are excellent as is learning on the job from a good teacher.

As is the military.

I don't see how you wrote the above about getting an education and bettering yourself, etc (which I agree with wholeheartedly) and then you undo all of that by supporting unions.  If you have spent your time and energy to better yourself you should have earned a set of skills worth something to society.  You should then have no problem getting paid the fair market value for that skill.

The problem would be that if that skill isn't particularly valuable, or it's really just a formality to earn...  Then I guess you would need to fend others off with methods other than your own natural value...

[billy_56081]

Pass what you fail to understand is that government workers are not truly taxpayers. They receive tax dollars as their pay and benefits and give part of those taxes back. They do not add any dollars to the gdp. 

[SHOOTALL]

duckkiller man you nailed it , here the union guys work non union when they are out of work. They travel 50 or more miles so they won't be seen . Then they call us scabs go figure . I tried working a few but they were useless. The good ones always seemed to have a job  .

[bigMikeA]

Notice how most of the supporters of WI dems, unions, and overpaid public sector employees loudly assume that those of us not supportive are uneducated or untrained?

It's a very interesting phenomenon that surfaces frequently in these disagreements.

I can't decide if it's funny, scary, sad, or what.  Sometimes tho I can't help but feel a little sorry for them, even if it is for only a fleeting second.

[Cabin4]

They do not add any dollars to the gdp.

Bingo!

They are simply a drain on the ability of the private sector to deliver GDP.

[carbineman]

I didn't figure you would answer the question. You must have been studying the politicians that appear on the Sunday morning talk shows as they run for political office. They don't answer the questions either. Logged

.
  ...How do you answer a loaded question about something that wouldn't happen anyway....idea requires clarification.

Why don't you answer the question...and clarify at the same time.??

..TM7

Yes, I believe the unionized LEOS would have removed Walker Supporters from the capitol building if they were tasked to do so. I don't believe they would have had a problem stomping the rights of those that they do not agree with.  That is my answer and my clarification, what is yours?

[carbineman]

Notice how most of the supporters of WI dems, unions, and overpaid public sector employees loudly assume that those of us not supportive are uneducated or untrained?Yes I have noticed that also, but they figure we are usefull as a tax slave.

It's a very interesting phenomenon that surfaces frequently in these disagreements.It is another tactic in debating the liberal. Don't address the message, just attack the messenger.

I can't decide if it's funny, scary, sad, or what.  Sometimes tho I can't help but feel a little sorry for them, even if it is for only a fleeting second.

[XD40SC]

The problem we have here is that when public sector unions are at the negotiating table there is no one there to negotiate for the taxpayer. These negotiations are going on with the same politicians that they used union dues to put into office.

Not only that but school boards which approve contracts are loaded with retired teachers!  In Milwaukee they have a pension which teachers pay a small portion, the school board approved a second pension which is paid entirely by, you guessed it the tax payer!

There are tons of school boards right now negotiating contract to get it done before Walkers plan is approved.  That is why we need to end this NOW!  The union never bargain in good faith.

Who appointed the school board members??

[billy_56081]

When politicians who have been bought and paid for by the unions are at the table, who is there to bargain for the taxpayer?

[beerbelly]

The truth is public service unions are going down! We are tired of being bullied! We will stop the union thugs! We are going to get you parasites out of our pocket!

[billy_56081]

Looks like it's spreading to Ohio, my bro in law is in the state house there. He is very conservative.

[Brewster]

justy like the clap

[Buckskin]

When politicians who have been bought and paid for by the unions are at the table, who is there to bargain for the taxpayer?

Nobody.   And that is exactly why we are in this mess.

[Buckskin]

justy like the clap

More like justice...

[Cabin4]

When politicians who have been bought and paid for by the unions are at the table, who is there to bargain for the taxpayer?

This is exactly why I have said that collective barganing in the public sector should be illegal. It is a complete and total conflict of interest. Pay them a decent wage and benies comparable with the private sector but lower. There should be an incentive for workers to leave the public sector and strive to be in the private sector were real GDP is the goal. Otherwise, we actually create an incentive for workers to leave the GDP/Private sector. Why as a society would we do something so counter productive to our own country? It makes no sense. But then again, we are talking about big government liberals and the Marxist, Socialist and Commu freinds that run these Unions.

[XD40SC]

An education dosen't always mean college !

You are 100% correct. Trade schools are excellent as is learning on the job from a good teacher.

As is the military.

I don't see how you wrote the above about getting an education and bettering yourself, etc (which I agree with wholeheartedly) and then you undo all of that by supporting unions.  If you have spent your time and energy to better yourself you should have earned a set of skills worth something to society.  You should then have no problem getting paid the fair market value for that skill.

The problem would be that if that skill isn't particularly valuable, or it's really just a formality to earn...  Then I guess you would need to fend others off with methods other than your own natural value...

That is exactly why some people leave teaching- they can make more money somewhere else- proving that those teachers are underpaid.

[bigMikeA]

The truth is public service unions are going down! We are tired of being bullied! We will stop the union thugs! We are going to get you parasites out of our pocket!

perhaps a little rough around the edges and definitely not PC but...

Yep!  absolutely right on!

Thank you beerbelly  from not only a college educated but also journeyman ex union supporter of Scott Walker and the Tea Party and the leftist conservatives (few as they are).

 

[bigMikeA]

[/quote]
That is exactly why some people leave teaching- they can make more money somewhere else- proving that those teachers are underpaid.
[/quote]

It proves absolutely nothing of the sort!  All it might tend to prove is that intelligent, financially motivated former teachers showed personal inititive and decided to move on to something more lucrative.  As is the option of every single professional in every single field.

Actually to their credit.  Rather than whine, collectively bargain  , rely on crooked unions to get them something for nothing.  Pay us more.  After all, we are educated.

[billy_56081]

State's broke, sorry your scam of paying off politicians to give you more and more in return for union dues funneled into their campaign coffers is over. The parasites have killed the host.

[XD40SC]

I realize it may be difficult for some of you righties to believe, but there are teachers who teach because they want to better society. Oh no, I used the word society. They must be socialists. Now if we can somehow tie that to Hitler- we would have extreme right wing logic.

[XD40SC]

That is exactly why some people leave teaching- they can make more money somewhere else- proving that those teachers are underpaid.
[/quote]

It proves absolutely nothing of the sort!  All it might tend to prove is that intelligent, financially motivated former teachers showed personal inititive and decided to move on to something more lucrative.  As is the option of every single professional in every single field.

Actually to their credit.  Rather than whine, collectively bargain  , rely on crooked unions to get them something for nothing.  Pay us more.  After all, we are educated.[/quote]
I think he's got it.

[bigMikeA]

I realize it may be difficult for some of you righties to believe, but there are teachers who teach because they want to better society. Oh no, I used the word society. They must be socialists. Now if we can somehow tie that to Hitler- we would have extreme right wing logic.

so you need to make up your mind.  just yesterday or the day before you were all hung up on the notion that teachers decided to make some sorta extraordinary sacrifice to go without while obtaining the education needed to make a "fair" wage and benefit package as opposed to the rest of us who chose to take the easy way out and make a justifiably lesser wage. 

I believe it was I that pointed out to you that there are a whole bunch of dedicated private school, lesser paid but better teachers, working to better our sick society.  Seems to me extreme right wing logic makes a whole bunch more sense than your frantic leftist raving.
 

[billy_56081]

Well big Mike what we see here in this thread is the free market capitalist verses the collective socialist train of thought.

[bigMikeA]

Pay us more.  After all, we are educated.
I think he's got it.

And, for what it's worth..  I'll stack my educational credentials against yours any time you'd like to do so.  You have an education.  Well SO DO I!  I worked my butt off and sacrificed to get where I am today;  you and you ilk ain't the only ones! 

A whole bunch of us did it thru HARD work and sacrifice.  NOT collective bargaining thru a bunch of crooked thugs. 

[Cabin4]

I realize it may be difficult for some of you righties to believe, but there are teachers who teach because they want to better society. Oh no, I used the word society. They must be socialists. Now if we can somehow tie that to Hitler- we would have extreme right wing logic.

Well, you said it, not me. If thier interest and real passion lie with educating childeren for the betterment of society, then low pay means nothing. RIGHT?

While your pomdering that moral question, I'll remind you that teachers in the private sector, make less then the ones in the public sector. So low pay but higher than thier counterparts. So technically, they are higher paid.

[XD40SC]

Did you ever think that the reason they teach in the private sector is because they couldn't get a job anywhere else. Not saying anything bad about them, but teaching in a lower paying job is better than not teaching at all.

[XD40SC]

Pay us more.  After all, we are educated.
I think he's got it.

And, for what it's worth..  I'll stack my educational credentials against yours any time you'd like to do so.  You have an education.  Well SO DO I!  I worked my butt off and sacrificed to get where I am today;  you and you ilk ain't the only ones! 

A whole bunch of us did it thru HARD work and sacrifice.  NOT collective bargaining thru a bunch of crooked thugs.

OK MIKE- LETS DO IT.

I don't want to seem like I'm better than anyone else because of my education. I know many persons who are smarter than I and didn't go to college- my father was one of them. The reason I brought up my education is because it was stated earlier that on a free market certain skills are worth more money.