Author Topic: 223 Maximum range??? (Read 5271 times)

DC · « **on:** February 28, 2011, 10:21:00 AM »

I sold and regret selling my 223 bolt gun. I can pick up a new Browning A Bolt Medallion for a little over $500 and am going to jump on it. My question is about range.
What is the maximum range the cartridge was designed for. I know there are military applications but mine will be of the predator variety. I know that 300 yards is doable but what about 400+?
I can pick up 270 WSM for the same price but yikes ammo and brass are mega bucks. I can buy 200 rounds of decent 223's for what one box of the WSM's cost. Of course the 270 WSM has a looonnng reach but I don't feel I really need it....or do I?

Your opinions please.

Bugflipper · « **Reply #1 on:** February 28, 2011, 11:13:24 AM »

Last I heard the military rated the 5.56 at 550 yards for point target and 800 yards for area target. I am assuming that is with the 62 gr bullets because it used to be 450 yards. Part of the Marine qualification is 10 rounds in 10 minutes prone 500 yards.

It really depends on the target for me 400 yards is max. Wind drift is a major concern for me. I use a bdc and could hit bigger targets farther. But I don't hunt for bigger targets, I hunt for varmints. I usually grab the 22-250 if I'm heading to a big field. The extra velocity helps a bit on wind drift. I know of several guys that prairie dog hunt that can dial in much longer shots with regularity out of a .223. Where I live you usually just get 1 shot so 400 is what I am comfortable with. BTW I use 60gr poly tipped bullets, so a hair less velocity than the norm. Also a hair better wind drift.

Grumulkin · « **Reply #2 on:** February 28, 2011, 01:29:29 PM »

The problem isn't killing at 400+ yards but hitting it. Provided the 223 you get is accurate enough, killing stuff like coyotes at 400+ yards is easily doable. In fact, I would even use my 204 Ruger for stuff like that.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #3 on:** February 28, 2011, 11:24:17 PM »

I can make pretty consistant hits on prarrie dogs at 400 yards but it needs to be a calm day. Add a little wind into the picture and the 22250 really shines. Id say 300 yards is a good max range for small animals but hitting something like a coyote at 400 yards isnt a problem for a good rifleman. Problem is that the 223 is kind of running out of steam at those ranges and doesnt put them down like a 22250 220 swift or one of the 24s.

jmayton · « **Reply #4 on:** March 01, 2011, 05:12:56 AM »

It depends on what bullet you're using. I can hit man-sized targets at 600yds with my 1:7 M4 shooting 55gr Sierras. I could extend that to nearly 1000 with 75grainers. And that's with a 4X scope. I've hit 20oz bottles at just over 500 with my Handi (3-9 Pentax with the precision plex reticle) and bowling pins at 600. . . but the little 55gr doesn't always have enough juice at that range to knock them over. It'll penetrate, but that's about it.

Bottom line: If your shooting 45-55 grain bullets, keep it within 500yds. If your shooting heavies, then it's really about how far out they stay supersonic (usually somewhere between 900-1100yds with 75grs).

nomosendero · « **Reply #5 on:** March 01, 2011, 05:57:16 AM »

Like jmayton said, it depends on the bullet & depends alot. As also stated, 400 yds. is very doable if you have a good shooting 223. After that killing them & seeing them go down can become very different things. I havn't tried them yet, but a good bullet to try would be the new 53V-Max with a BC of .290, it should extend the quick kill range a little further. That BC is better than the 60 V-Max I have been using for years. I sure like it.

jmayton · « **Reply #6 on:** March 01, 2011, 06:41:38 AM »

That's a great bc for a bullet that light. That thing should scream. . . and scream for a long, long way. That things still going 1194fps and has 168ft/lbs of energy at 800yds! That's a lot for a little bullet at that range.

To compare, a Berger 75gr VLD has a BC of .371. fired with a muzzle velocity of 2900fps it will be going 1290fps and have 277ft/lbs of energy at 800yds. The Berger at that MV will drop subsonic just before it gets to 1000yds. If you can up the MV 100fps you should be able to get it to 1000 while still in stable flight. . . but I think 3000fps is pushing it a bit, unless it's being fired out of a tube somewhere around 30".

Edit: the Berger 75gr has a BC of .423. I gave the BC for th 70gr.

Larry Gibson · « **Reply #7 on:** March 03, 2011, 09:03:22 AM »

Quote from: DC on February 28, 2011, 10:21:00 AM

............What is the maximum range the cartridge was designed for. I know there are military applications but mine will be of the predator variety. I know that 300 yards is doable but what about 400+?
I.....

Your opinions please.

I've been hunting varmints (coyote, rock chucks, squirrels and rabbits) with the 5.56/.223 since '68 with different bolt actions. Hunted the 2 legged kind in SEA a few years before with the XM16. Also have used Mini 14s and several ARs along with a couple other gas guns. With the bolt guns I've had good results to 500 yards on rock chucks and coyote's. The rifles have/had 12 or 14" twists and my favorite load was the Hornady SX over 26.5 gr H335 for 320 - 3300 fps depending on barrel length, In the better rifles accuracy is sub 1/2 moa and if you can judge the range and wind effectively and put the bullet in the heart lung area it kills well at that range. I most often used a 10 - 12 X scope with accurate adjustments for elevation/windage changes. it is always much more accurate to make elevation changes for longer range shots than to use hold over (even with one of the newer reticles for holdover). With the gas guns my bullet of choice is the 52 gr Speer HP if the twist is not faster than 9". I load it over the same 36.5 gr H335 load and velocity is 3150 - 3200 fps out of most 20" barrels. It is quite accurate and very deadly but I can recall having shot any coyotes or larger varmints past about 300 yards with it as mostly I was using the issue iron sights while "on call". That load is effective on rabbits at slightly over 400 yards out of my Colt Comp AR with a Leupold tactical 3.5x10 though.

I have used the Sierra 55 gr plastic tipped bullet over 26 gr H335 out of my Savage .223 Competition with a 9" twist 26" barrel at 600 yards on paper and it definately holds minute of coyote but have yet to shoot a crtter with it at any real distance. A range finder solves the ranging problem these days but on smaller varmints with the .223 at such ranges correct wind estimation across the bullets flight is critical.

Larry Gibson

tunered · « **Reply #8 on:** March 03, 2011, 05:59:51 PM »

This will open some eyes,

http://www.longrangehunting.com/articles/shooting-223-mile-1.php

Graybeard · « **Reply #9 on:** March 03, 2011, 06:28:16 PM »

I've shot prairie dogs to a lasered 500 yards with a .223. I reckon if a coyote stood as still as the PDs did ya could hit them but likely wouldn't have a bench to shoot from like I did. From field positions predator hunting require I agree that the range you could hit it would likely be what determines your max range. Too bad ya can't carry a shooting bench for them like ya can for PDs.

jmayton · « **Reply #10 on:** March 04, 2011, 05:59:03 AM »

tunered, wow that was interesting. Kinda proves that we never really push our equipment to it's limit. . . the limit is us.

DC · « **Reply #11 on:** March 04, 2011, 10:11:48 AM »

Wow, I just read that article. Shooting a mile with a 223 is amazing. Of course much that is doubted on many
of the gun forums are reality's. That guy's ability to put together the rifle, the scope the mounts and shims that he speaks about say mountains about his ability as a shooter and rifleman and his knowledge of the shooting sports.

tunered · « **Reply #12 on:** March 04, 2011, 04:51:39 PM »

Quote from: jmayton on March 04, 2011, 05:59:03 AM

tunered, wow that was interesting. Kinda proves that we never really push our equipment to it's limit. . . the limit is us.

That to me just proves that little guns can do big things if done in a half reasonable fashion, Yea a big 7mm would be a better calibur, but cost and barrel life is my thing, I have as much fun with little guns. ed

billy_56081 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 04, 2011, 06:02:51 PM »

I killed a laser confirmed witnessed 596 yard prairie dog kill several years ago. Was out in Pierre SD for the VHA banquet.

DC · « **Reply #14 on:** March 05, 2011, 04:17:56 AM »

As far as I know there aren't any prairie dogs in Idaho but we do have plenty of Rock Chucks, (marmots). Hopefully I will have the new Browning by the end of next week so I can try her out on a few.!

tunered · « **Reply #15 on:** March 05, 2011, 07:50:12 AM »

Heres the thing about the 223 shooting much over 400 yards, you will need at least the 1x9 twist that will handle the heavier bullets. ed

DC · « **Reply #16 on:** March 05, 2011, 11:43:51 AM »

Billy, that is some good shooting!

helotaxi · « **Reply #17 on:** March 09, 2011, 08:16:41 AM »

A 20" AR-15 with iron sights is the standard rifle for High Power Service Rifle competition. That goes out to 600yds shooting prone, unsupported. It specifies the MR1 target which has a 6" x-ring. F T/R also uses .223 and shrinks the x-ring to 3" at 600 yds. Some match shooters use the .223 at 1000 yds.

diggler1833 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 12, 2011, 11:27:17 AM »

I've shot Service rifle matches for the Corps, and competed there at 1000 with iron sights on a 5.56x45. 77gr ammo went subsonic before it reached the target and drifted all over, the 80gr rounds were good.

It is amazing to see how good some are with iron sights and supported positions.

marine · « **Reply #19 on:** March 17, 2011, 03:51:50 AM »

You cant be a US Marine unless you can hit a man sized target at 500 yds. This is done with a M16a2 and iron sights. No benches either just a sling to support the rifle, so i know it can be done. It just takes some practice.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #20 on:** March 17, 2011, 04:52:28 AM »

interesting article but the main issue he had to wait for was a calm day . I would guess those who hunt where wind is common would need to decide if a larger bore would give more hunting days .

DC · « **Reply #21 on:** March 17, 2011, 05:54:27 AM »

I too thought about the wind and the bullet weight. One would have to use the heaviest bullets the rifle would shoot
to be accurate in mild winds. I would think that 70gr+ would have to be used. Having said that I shot ground squirrels here in Idaho on a gusty day with some gusts hitting 20mph and did fairly well. Because the wind wasn't steady, it wasn't an issue of dialing in a scope as much as it was guessing how much to hold off to the left or right at 100-200 yards. Once in a while you could get a shot off when the wind died down, but ground squirrels don't hang around very long.

valvesinmyhead · « **Reply #22 on:** March 19, 2011, 12:56:31 AM »

Quote from: DC on February 28, 2011, 10:21:00 AM

I can pick up 270 WSM for the same price but yikes ammo and brass are mega bucks. I can buy 200 rounds of decent 223's for what one box of the WSM's cost. Of course the 270 WSM has a looonnng reach but I don't feel I really need it....or do I?

I was thinking the same thing till I talked to some guys from Hornady. "We have this new SuperFormance 270 win ammo coming out that will be close to the WSM". So I bought a 270 win. 3200fps 130gr SST. Way cheaper than WSM stuff. All the calibers of Hornady ammo I shoot seems to be accurate.