The Judge Handgun... Good Self Defense Handgun or Not??

[PAHUnter04]

Hi Guys:

Now before you guys go nuts, try taking a logical look at this handgun. I have seen some strong reactions to this handgun on here and the guys don't even own one.

First let me say that I own many, many handguns. Over 5 Colts, over 4 S&W, about 5 Rugers, 1 Savage, and yes one little Judge.

Remember I am saying defence handgun not Hunting handgun. I don't know that to many felons could stand up with a #4 shotload in the face at 5 feet from the little .410.

Not to mention the new Buckshot loads by Federal and Winchester. The federal .410 buckshot are four #00 Buckshot at 1200 FPS. The Winchester are three Cylindrical pellets and 12 BB's.

And last but not least the old .45 LC... mine shoots handloads of 200 grain SWC at 1000 FPS at 10 yards with head shots.

Is the fit and finish the quality of a Colt S&W, maybe not, but neither is the price. I did dispatch a big mountain rattler at the lakehouse with #6 Shot.

So what you do you think?

[SHOOTALL]

At 5 feet what can a swarm of #4 shot or 5 buck shot  do a 250 gr. slug not do when a bad guy attacks ? The fine shot or buck may be defeated if attacker has on leather coat or other heavy clothes. You assume that you will get a face shot at 5 yards , bad guy might not allow that. If so a heavy bullet would be better no matter the angle. That said there are better revolvers made for the job IMHO !

[kid_couteau]

I had the Judge Public Defender

Threw too big a pattern with shot

Little accuracy with slugs

Never tried 45 colt in it

Traded it off and did not look back real hard

Kid

[Bugflipper]

I am not really a fan of one for defense. I do have one that was a gift. My wife carries it for snakes/ coyote. I think that is why she bought it for "me". It would be more formidable if there are rounds out now at 1200 fps for buck shot in the short barrels. The standard buckshot rounds of 900 fps and less through it would put it close to a 22 lr out of a rifle in the muzzle energy department. At 58.3 00 and 70 gr 000 they would need a little boost in velocity to get decent penetration, as the 1200fps you are talking about. Here is a page with some test info. http://mcb-homis.com/judge/

I used to have a contender that I would hunt a little with. Up close it would take a pheasant or rabbit. It was a 14" barrel so I imagine velocity was up a bit more. I just ran shot through it though. Never tried to shoot bigger things with a slug or buckshot.

[PAHUnter04]

Well....

I personally tend to agree with the #4 shot shell not having enough power. Even though I know a LEO with 27 years on the force, and also does forensics that would disagree.

That is why I think two rounds of the #00 buckshot from Federal, or Winchester PDX1, and three rounds of 44 LC fit the bill for defence. When I am in my back woods, I actually carry, (2) rounds #4 shot for snakes, (1) Round of Buck shot for s*its & giggles, and (2) rounds of 45 LC for just in case. If I have the time I can decide what load I want to shoot by just rotating the cylinder. One gun, three different loads. You have to admit, it has some options.

Usually my S&W 329PD 44 Mag is on my hip when on patrol, or I am deeper in the woods and gamelands. We have to many big blackies running around the garbage site not to take seriously.

[Redhawk1]

I did a lot of testing with the Judge when it came out. For an up close defense gun, it will work well. 4 shot, buck shot and 45 Colts will do some damage to someone up close. The gun functions great, but is a bit bulky.

I kept my test under 15 yards, and in my opinion I would fell very comfortable with one. I sold mine when they were hard to find, a good friend wanted one real bad, so I sold him mine.  He loves the gun for his truck gun and home defense.  I have to say I miss the Judge. I had a lot of fun shooting it. I just got a Bond 410/45 Colts Derringer with the driver holster. I took it out to the range and shot it with all kinds of different 410 shells and 45 Colt ammo. Not as accurate as the Judge at 15 yards, but it will still wreck someone's day up close.

It is not my main carry gun, it is one of my many back ups I carry for different occasions. I keep a buck shot for my first shot followed by a 45 Colt hollow point. 

[yooper77]

I consider 410/45 novelty guns. The Judge is bulky and I would choose my Ruger Blackhawk in 45 Colt instead.

yooper77

[NickSS]

I do not own one but a friend does.  We took his out and put something like 400 rounds through it of both 310 and 45 colt ammo.  His has a 3 inch barrel and is as long as a 357 mag with a 4 or 5 inch tube on it.  At close range (I am talking of 10 or 15 feet) it shot sufficiently well with birdshot and buckshot 410 loads to take small game, shoot snakes and perhaps work for self defence.  Beyond that close range the patterns got blown and the further away the less chance of making a hit on small objects like small game.  I would judge that about 10 yards is absolute maximum range.  Then we put like 200 rounds of 45 colt through it.  Again at short range it was more than useful for defense but once you got to 15 yards grouping started to really suffer and at 25 yards I could only reliably keep 4 out of 5 rounds on a 12"X12" target.  To me this is very poor accuracy for a 45 colt hand gun.  My overall assessment is that at really short ranges like inside a house it would be an effective gun with either 319 buckshot loads or 45 colt ammo.  As far as I am concerned the 410 slugs I fired were so anemic compared to a 45 colt that I would not waist my money on them and they shot far worse than the colt round did.  For just about any other use than close in self defense and small game potting there are much better choices.

[Mikey]

PAHunter:  There are some new personal defense loads out for the 410 that contain both a slug and 3 (I think) #4 or 00 buck pellets and that would give you the best of both worlds, shot and ball so to speak.  I would be a bit leery of just basing my defense on #4 shot as #4 buck is a better and heavier load but I'm not sure it is available in 410.  Right now the are a whole bunch of 410 loads available for the Judge, S&B, Golden Bear (3"), and for handguns Federal Premium '410 for Handguns carries 4 000 buck pellets listed at 1200'/sec - that's pretty darn good for the 410.  You might also be able to get slug loads for the 410 that fit the handgun but, you are chambered for the 45 colt as well, so you have many choices. 

If you live, hunt or work in snake country or where you might encounter a venomous snake, violent individuals or politicians, the Judge would be a good choice.  HTH.

[Redhawk1]

What gets me is the guys that want to put down the gun, and make it as if the gun is useless or a novelty.  Do you all understand what self defense is? This gun was not made to be a 25 yards gun, self defense happens within 7 yards and closer.  Once you understand the term self defense, you may have a different out look as to the gun as a viable self defense handgun.

At least the guys that have actually gone out and shot the Judge can give a good assessment on the gun, but those that have not can only speculate as to there effectiveness.

Are there better guns out there for self defense, sure there are, but don't think in a self defense situation that a Judge would not do the job.

[PAHUnter04]

Hi Guys:

Great explanation Redhawk1, I agree whole heartily. I also have my 500 S&W, my 44 Mag Colt Anaconda, my 44 Mag RBH, 357 Mag RHB,  for hunting, my 9MM's and 40 S&W's, 45 ACP's for self defence and alto more.

Thus the self defence in title. This revolver was probably never intended to be more than a 15 yard MAX weapon.  But it could be a whole lot of fun to shoot.

From the FBI stats, most gun fights are at the extreme range of 7 YARDS... that is 21 feet.  Now tell me from a panic situation, grabbing a revolver, and letting loose at 21 feet with four #000 buck shot at 1200 fps gotta be better than a miss. And if you do, keep squeezing the trigger and let loose the 45 LC's.

Thanks for the responces guys. Just food for thought.

PAH.

[SHOOTALL]

What gets me is the guys that want to put down the gun, and make it as if the gun is useless or a novelty.  Do you all understand what self defense is? This gun was not made to be a 25 yards gun, self defense happens within 7 yards and closer.  Once you understand the term self defense, you may have a different out look as to the gun as a viable self defense handgun.

At least the guys that have actually gone out and shot the Judge can give a good assessment on the gun, but those that have not can only speculate as to there effectiveness.

Are there better guns out there for self defense, sure there are, but don't think in a self defense situation that a Judge would not do the job.

Yes I do understand self defense . I have shot snakes and rats with the 410 and find my 38 j frame works better do to the 410's donough pattern. Like I said before I can't think of any situation where a 250 gr bullet would not be better than even the buck shot load in 410 shells that hold 5 buck shot . With out even getting into bullet shape the energy transfer from the bullet trumps the buchshot at the start. As for fine shot , in many places the civil suit will set ya back . If they were so good why don't cops carry them ?

[yooper77]

What gets me is the guys that want to put down the gun, and make it as if the gun is useless or a novelty.  Do you all understand what self defense is? This gun was not made to be a 25 yards gun, self defense happens within 7 yards and closer.  Once you understand the term self defense, you may have a different out look as to the gun as a viable self defense handgun.

At least the guys that have actually gone out and shot the Judge can give a good assessment on the gun, but those that have not can only speculate as to there effectiveness.

Are there better guns out there for self defense, sure there are, but don't think in a self defense situation that a Judge would not do the job.

Yep, the Judge 410 Bore/45 Colt is most defiantly a novelty gun in my eyes. It is better than a sharp stick, but the Judge revolver is just not for me.

Remember PAHUnter04 asked us:

Hi Guys:

So what you do you think?

I conceal carry a S&W 360 Airweight in 38 Special+p for everyday every season.

In the field/ hunting use, I can choose from my Ruger New Model Blackhawk convertible in 45 Colt/45 ACP, or Ruger New Model Blackhawk convertible in 357 Magnum/9mm Luger.

yooper77

[temmi]

For the size and weight of that gun... you could have a Super Redhawk.

[SHOOTALL]

Or a Glock 10 mm with 14 shots 

[no guns here]

I think it would be good as a boat gun for snakes and such.  It should make a nice hiking pistol or something to carry in a tool box for working in the field.  It's purpose would be for snakes and a second gun for PD.  I'd probably load the #4's or 6's for snakes in the first chamber and then load the rest with .45.  Shouldn't need more than one for a snake and if I needed the .45's for a dog, coyote or whatever, it's easy to skip one chamber.  I don't think I would carry it for a PD gun on the street or for daily carry though.  I'd rather have more rounds and easier loading magazines for that.


NGH

[SHOOTALL]

I find a J frame works well for both PD and snakes , packs /carries well as does its ammo .

[chefjeff]

I sure am glad I lusted but didn't leap after one of these .Why? Because the tauras website shows a new 28 guage with a longer barrel. A la Hellboy style. My co-workers have a couple of judges that are filling defense and pure fun rolls.One guy killed a coyote across his back yard with the "buck & ball" load. These are terrific snake and rodent guns. I think they should call the new one"The JURY'. Ha,I gotta try one.

[PAHUnter04]

They also have a new 2.5 in cylinder snubbie, polymer frame revolver out called the Public Defender. It looks like an elongated Colt detective special.

I was playing around with The Judge up at the lake. I left it in my hip holster to check on a disturbance near a pond behind our sewage plant. We have about 40K acres of gamelands behind our development. It was in the summer and warm out. As I sat my butt down on a nice rock, I heard a very alarming  sound of a mountain rattler. As I eased the revolver out of the holster ever so slowly I looked to my left. At almost shoulder level along an out cropping was the viper. I put the revolver across my chest and fired. Lucky shot, maybe, damn near took his head clean off. That was with #6 Shot, 2.5 shell Winchester. I might have missed using the 45 LC loaded last in the cylinder.

Is it the best handgun for self defence, heck no. Is it fun, heck yes. 

Regards PAH..

[PAHUnter04]

Hi Guys:

I like to hear ALL YOUR Opinions.  That's what makes the world go round. 

PAH...

[375supermag]

Hi...

I don't own one and haven't shot one...so I have no hands-on experience, so my opinion is probably worthless, but that never stopped me from expressing myself before.

So...I would rather carry a conventional revolver in .357Mag or larger caliber. Or a 1911 in .45ACP.
I don't think you are going to get the required penetration from .410 shot unless you shoot for the face.
I would prefer to aim for the widest part of an assailant's body. I don't think that  .410 is the answer for that application.

I guess you could carry a Judge with .45Colt cartridges, but that is an awful long cylinder for a carry revolver, IMHO.

[Redhawk1]

Or a Glock 10 mm with 14 shots 

Well I have quit a few carry guns, so adding another one to my collection is all the fun of it.  I have been eyeing a Glock 10 mm.. 

[Bigeasy]

Well, since everyone else is expressing an opinion, here's mine-

I shot one belonging to a friend last year.  Seems like a "fun" gun to play with, and no doubt it would be effective with buck shot loads at close range in a defensive situation.

Problem is, while most defensive shootings take place up close, not all do.  So now you have several issues.  Reduced stopping power and penetration is one.  Another is lack of pin point accuracy - if several buck shot or pellets miss your target, you are responsible for where they end up, and that could be a consideration depending on where you are during a confrontation.

Round capacity, and bulky size are other issues that I think disqualify it from being a good choice for all around self defence.  A modern hi cap auto,  loaded with quality hollow points in a suitable caliber will be smaller, more accurate, and provide more reliable stopping power  with increased cartridge count, an important consideration as not all felons come alone.

That said, sure it can be an effective weapon, I just feel its effectiveness comes in too narrow a window for an all around defensive weapon.

Larry

[Swampman]

I wouldn't have a Judge (nor any other Taraus) as a gift.

just my 2 cents.

[PAHUnter04]

Hey Redhawk1:

I was one of the fools that pooh poohed the Glock until I had a chance to shoot one extensively. My Model 27 Glock .40 cal, with a Crimson Trace on the trigger guard is my go to semi-auto. Deadly accurate and hits hard. The only semi auto that is more accurate is my Colt Combat Elite .45 ACP. It's just to big to carry most of time, unless I am expecting trouble.

At the lake, my normal side arm is my S&W 329PD, lite, powerful and easy to carry on a hip holster.

I have a decent stable in my collection now. But over the years I sold and traded probably over 20 handguns, some I should have never let get away. Like custom tuned Pythons, S&W 19's, S&W 29's, Gold Cup NM's, Diamondbacks and more.

Larry you bring up some pretty good points about distance and the Judge. It is sort of bulky, about the same size as my 4in. 329PD, and heavier.

But deadly on snakes.... 

PAH.

[SHOOTALL]

do they make speed loaders for shotgun shells ?

[Redhawk1]

Hey Redhawk1:

I was one of the fools that pooh poohed the Glock until I had a chance to shoot one extensively. My Model 27 Glock .40 cal, with a Crimson Trace on the trigger guard is my go to semi-auto. Deadly accurate and hits hard. The only semi auto that is more accurate is my Colt Combat Elite .45 ACP. It's just to big to carry most of time, unless I am expecting trouble.

At the lake, my normal side arm is my S&W 329PD, lite, powerful and easy to carry on a hip holster.

I have a decent stable in my collection now. But over the years I sold and traded probably over 20 handguns, some I should have never let get away. Like custom tuned Pythons, S&W 19's, S&W 29's, Gold Cup NM's, Diamondbacks and more.

Larry you bring up some pretty good points about distance and the Judge. It is sort of bulky, about the same size as my 4in. 329PD, and heavier.

But deadly on snakes.... 

PAH.

I have shot a few glock's and owned a model 19 and 21 SF.  I don't know why the 10 mm is catching my eye.

As for the distance thing with the Judge, there comes a point where someone is not a real threat. Hard to justify shooting someone at 25 yards, unless they have a gun, and they are going to shoot at you. But if they have a knife or anything else, you're going to be hard pressed to convince a jury you were in fear of your life.. Just sayin.

[Redhawk1]

do they make speed loaders for shotgun shells ?

 If they do are you going to get a Judge??  lol   

[SHOOTALL]

naw , tried 2-45/410's nothing speical.

[Bugflipper]

do they make speed loaders for shotgun shells ?

http://www.5starfirearms.com/judge.html