Author Topic: The Judge Handgun... Good Self Defense Handgun or Not?? (Read 30704 times)

coyotejoe · « **Reply #30 on:** March 02, 2011, 04:40:13 AM »

Quote from: Mikey on March 01, 2011, 01:36:24 AM

PAHunter: There are some new personal defense loads out for the 410 that contain both a slug and 3 (I think) #4 or 00 buck pellets and that would give you the best of both worlds, shot and ball so to speak. I would be a bit leery of just basing my defense on #4 shot as #4 buck is a better and heavier load but I'm not sure it is available in 410. Right now the are a whole bunch of 410 loads available for the Judge, S&B, Golden Bear (3"), and for handguns Federal Premium '410 for Handguns carries 4 000 buck pellets listed at 1200'/sec - that's pretty darn good for the 410. You might also be able to get slug loads for the 410 that fit the handgun but, you are chambered for the 45 colt as well, so you have many choices.

If you live, hunt or work in snake country or where you might encounter a venomous snake, violent individuals or politicians, the Judge would be a good choice. HTH.

Mickey, where did you find that Federal load at 1200 fps. On the Federal website I found three .410 loads for the Judge as follows.
4 pellets of 000 buck at 850 fps,
5 pellets of 000 at 775 fps
and 9 pellets of #4 buck at 950 fps.
I've clocked regular .410 shotshells from my singleshot with 10" barrel in the lower 900 fps area. I haven't chronoed them from a long gun but I suspect that's where they may do 1200 fps.
If you think about it, 4 pellets of 000 buck will have a total weight of around 260-280 grain and getting that payload up to 1200 fps from a 3" barrel would be a struggle for a .44 mag.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #31 on:** March 02, 2011, 05:09:08 AM »

Remington's new 2 1/2 inch lists there 00 Buck 4 pellets at 1300 fps. I have a few boxes in front of me with that data on it. Called the Remington HD Ultimate Home Defense.

WD45 · « **Reply #32 on:** March 02, 2011, 05:39:14 AM »

To get the higher velocities from the 410 buck loads are they bumping up the pressure ? Are any of them listed as intended for the judge only and may not be safe in a standard long barrel shotgun. Seams like they gotta be doin somthing different to get those kind of velocities out of a 3 inch barrel?

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #33 on:** March 02, 2011, 06:04:54 AM »

bbl length makes the difference , check to see what bbl was used . Standard loads in shotgund hover around 1150-1200 FPS.

PAHUnter04 · « **Reply #34 on:** March 02, 2011, 09:06:55 AM »

WOW Bugflipper:

I don't believe that..... pretty cool looking speed loaders for the 410 & 45 LC..

You have to admit The Judge started a whole 3rd party selling source!

PAH...

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #35 on:** March 02, 2011, 09:09:26 AM »

Quote from: Bugflipper on March 02, 2011, 02:37:45 AM

Quote from: SHOOTALL on March 02, 2011, 01:22:47 AM
do they make speed loaders for shotgun shells ?

http://www.5starfirearms.com/judge.html

interesting !

Swampman · « **Reply #36 on:** March 02, 2011, 11:23:41 AM »

These guns are huge. How will you conceal them? They are a novelty.......

Bugflipper · « **Reply #37 on:** March 02, 2011, 12:16:07 PM »

Like them or not, taurus has put out some very interesting cartridges in their revolvers and have truly found a niche with a lot of shooters. Their 2011 lineup has a convertible 22lr/mag, 28 ga pistol and pistol caliber carbine. Pretty innovative when their rivals seem to be resting on their laurels during the recession.
http://www.taurususa.com/2011newcatalog/?catalog_page=12
http://www.taurususa.com/2011newcatalog/?catalog_page=7
http://www.taurususa.com/2011newcatalog/?catalog_page=6

PAHUnter04 · « **Reply #38 on:** March 02, 2011, 12:21:55 PM »

The new Federal load was MADE for The Judge. It says right on the box, personal defense 1200 FPS from the handgun.

So is the Winchester PDX1.... but I don't have any velocities on the shell. This one is funky with the three discs and BB's. I have yet to shoot it.

Swampy... if I wanted to conceal The Judge, and I really don't, it rides un-noticed in a Bianchi shoulder holster for a regular 4in. Pistol. The shoulder rig I have, it is an older one, it will fit my 4in Python, 4in S&W 329PD, 4in Ruger SBH, and the Judge.

I used to carry some heavy hitters in a shoulder holster, including the Colt Elite, 6in Colt Anaconda, and with the right shoulder holster a TC .357 Herret with 12in barrel.

PAH..

Swampman · « **Reply #39 on:** March 02, 2011, 12:53:31 PM »

Last comment....every single Taraus product I've ever been involved with broke. The factory fixed them promptly but having the cylinder fall off and/or constant failure to fires didn't do anything to make me want one.

Lloyd Smale · « **Reply #40 on:** March 02, 2011, 11:32:51 PM »

first im not a fan of any tarrus gun. I had two run ins with there customer service dept and that was enough for me. Now to the judge. Its not what i would pick for a self defense gun. Im sure at 7 yards loaded properly it would take care of bussiness. My load of choise would be buckshot though. To me there to bulky and heavy for consealed carry. I can much eaiser conseal a 1911 then a judge. At 7 yards i dont see any advantage in hitability. The shot pattern doesnt open that much and if you cant hit something with a 45 at 7 yards you shouldnt be carrying a handgun. Also up here in the winter people wear heavy clothes and i wouldnt want to bet on fine shot penetrating heavy clothing and still putting someone down. Also i see them targeted toward female shooters. In my opinion recoil is a bit stout for most females to handle. A little j frame 38 or something like a ruger lcp is a much better choise for a female. For a trail gun id much rather have a gun i can shoot precisely then one that shoots a shot pattern that is questionable at best. In both cases chances are that your shot will be real close but then again theres always that rare senerio that will demand a 25 yard shot. Sorry buy give me a good semi auto or at least a good 38. Another good argument for the 38 is no gun is any good unless you have it on you and your much more likely to carry a little 38 with you all the time then a big gun like a judge.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #41 on:** March 03, 2011, 01:46:44 AM »

note that in fact they have a legal 28 ga gun now and S&W has joined in with a 45/410 revolver. The fad lives on

WD45 · « **Reply #42 on:** March 03, 2011, 07:19:49 AM »

I understand the relationship between barrel length and velocity. I thought they were advertising these higher velocities out of the short barrel hand gun

Mohawk · « **Reply #43 on:** March 03, 2011, 01:22:39 PM »

For SD stick with the .45 Colt load. Buck/Bird Shot is a weird animal and not predictable. I used 00 Buck from a 12 ga at 6 yds on a deer and eventhough it worked well I was kinda disappointed with the penetration. Ballistic gelatin lies.

cheapshooter · « **Reply #44 on:** March 10, 2011, 05:59:35 PM »

Quote

They also have a new 2.5 in cylinder snubbie, polymer frame revolver out called the Public Defender. It looks like an elongated Colt detective special.

Yep, here's mine. Along side of my Springer XD40 Subcompact. It's a 2"

And I don't think it works too bad @ 10 yds. 5 rnds 45LC off hand S/A

5 rnds Winchester PDX1 D/A rapid fire.

saddlebum · « **Reply #45 on:** March 10, 2011, 06:29:18 PM »

Quote from: Bugflipper on March 02, 2011, 02:37:45 AM

Quote from: SHOOTALL on March 02, 2011, 01:22:47 AM
do they make speed loaders for shotgun shells ?

http://www.5starfirearms.com/judge.html

Hard for me to imagine anyone being serious enough about the Judge, (or any Taurus), to spend 71.50 for 3 speedloaders. Or 500+ for the gun for that matter.
I can't comment on this subject without being condesending and hurting peoples feelings. So that's all I'll say about it, except to say that if I ever get in a gunfight, I hope the other guy is using a Judge.

cheapshooter · « **Reply #46 on:** March 11, 2011, 07:04:38 AM »

Quote

I can't comment on this subject without being condesending and hurting peoples feelings. So that's all I'll say about it, except to say that if I ever get in a gunfight, I hope the other guy is using a Judge.

No feelings hurt here!
I bought the Public Defender Poly just because it is rather unique, and I thought it might just be fun. It was the first Poly Judge I have seen, and the price was very good @ $425.
As shown in the photos in my other post I was very surprised, and pleased with it's performance. Although it won't replace my Springer XD40 Sub for daily carry. it might just find sleeping quarters in my night stand filled up with 3 Winchester PDX1 Defense Disk rounds backed up with 2 PDX1 225 gr. HP 45 LC.
In my house there wouldn't be anywhere more than the 30' distance the targets I shot were placed at. I don't think a BG in my house would necessarily agree with your last statement!

coyotejoe · « **Reply #47 on:** March 12, 2011, 04:24:56 AM »

Sorry but NO, I do not believe 1200 fps from a 3" barrel, you cannot get 1200 fps for 280 grain bullet from a 3" .44 mag which runs 3-4 times the pressure of a .410 shotshell. The Federal website shows velocities of 775-900 fps from the 3" judge, those 1200-1300 fps velocities have to be from longer barrels with no cylinder gap, probably from a pressure gun.
.410 slugs at 1200 maybe, but they only weigh about 90 grains.
Check the Federal Ammo site for these loads specifically for the Judge.
http://www.federalpremium.com/products/handgun.aspx

QuailKiller · « **Reply #48 on:** March 12, 2011, 05:29:07 PM »

Here is a pretty good video on the Judge. Its a little long, but he tests a lot of different ammo and I found it to be very educational and entertaining.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRlry5KH6I0

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #49 on:** March 13, 2011, 05:15:19 AM »

Like the video, all I can say is, I don't want to be the one being shot with the buckshot or any of the shot shell rounds. I was impressed with the accuracy of the 45 Colts though, even though he had to hold low, the 2 shots were real close on the target. I did very similar testing with my Judge, and was impressed with it. Probably one of the only Taurus products I like.

Pulp · « **Reply #50 on:** March 13, 2011, 06:50:00 PM »

I'm kinda new here, I've never owned or fired a Judge, and I've never slept at a Holiday Inn Express.

All that said, here's my opinion on the Judge, from the perpetrator point of view. If I break into your house, or try to carjack you, and you put a load of #4's or #6's into my face, chances are I'm not going to mess with you any longer. I have a hard time seeing when both eyes have birdshot in them. I may flop around on your floor, screaming and slinging blood all over your walls, but I probably won't be advancing an attack. And isn't that the purpose of a sefl defense firearm, to stop the attack?

So my feeling on the Judge is; if the perp is within bedroom distance, and if you hit the perp in the face with birdshot, then yes, the Judge would be a good choice.

Curtis · « **Reply #51 on:** March 14, 2011, 08:06:09 AM »

Pulp a face is a small target under stress, especially if it is moving. Now lets suppose I can only make a "center of mass" shot, it is winter and that bird shot won't make it through the thick leather jacket the perp is wearing with any kind of stopping power. No thanks.

I'm not meaning to "what if" this to death but there are some glaring holes in your premise IMO.

Curtis

ronbow · « **Reply #52 on:** March 17, 2011, 02:09:57 AM »

Quote from: Curtis on March 14, 2011, 08:06:09 AM

Pulp a face is a small target under stress, especially if it is moving. Now lets suppose I can only make a "center of mass" shot, it is winter and that bird shot won't make it through the thick leather jacket the perp is wearing with any kind of stopping power. No thanks.

I'm not meaning to "what if" this to death but there are some glaring holes in your premise IMO.

Curtis

Bingo. Punching paper is not exactly a self defense situation. Also , if you have only one handgun for self defense, the Judge does not fit the bill due to limited range. Round shot never penetrates better than a conical.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #53 on:** March 17, 2011, 02:19:02 AM »

Quote from: Pulp on March 13, 2011, 06:50:00 PM

I'm kinda new here, I've never owned or fired a Judge, and I've never slept at a Holiday Inn Express.

All that said, here's my opinion on the Judge, from the perpetrator point of view. If I break into your house, or try to carjack you, and you put a load of #4's or #6's into my face, chances are I'm not going to mess with you any longer. I have a hard time seeing when both eyes have birdshot in them. I may flop around on your floor, screaming and slinging blood all over your walls, but I probably won't be advancing an attack. And isn't that the purpose of a sefl defense firearm, to stop the attack?

So my feeling on the Judge is; if the perp is within bedroom distance, and if you hit the perp in the face with birdshot, then yes, the Judge would be a good choice.

Police who train more than most others hit 1 in 7 shots shooting at center of mass . Betting on hitting the perp in his moving head could be a big order of business. just saying ...........

Mike in Virginia · « **Reply #54 on:** March 17, 2011, 02:20:11 PM »

Smith and Wesson makes one now, I suppose because the Judge is such a big seller. Me, I wouldn't have any Taurus, especially not the Judge. It's way too big for such a short range weapon. I know it would keep you alive if your assailant was close, but a .410 ain't much power, and you can get the .45LC in much better weapons. I might be wrong. If sales are any indication, I definitely am.

williamlayton · « **Reply #55 on:** March 18, 2011, 02:58:24 AM »

Well, you can deny if you want----HOWEVER---at the local gunshow last weekend, you were not a well represented table if you did not have 10 different versions of these things.
It is the hottest thing on the market today--and--for a long time.
I am going to wait til the heat wears off and THEN--MAYBE--I will find some impitus to want one.
Then again---Maybe not.
Blessings

temmi · « **Reply #56 on:** March 18, 2011, 08:15:05 AM »

It’s not really not denying anything…

They may be fun guns. But they are not the best Self Defense Handgun… or a really good one.

Will it serve as one? Sure, a 22LR will also but it is not really made to be a good one.

And the “Judge” is BIG and that doesn’t help either.

All that said, people will buy stuff… when my boys were young, they sold a bunch of magic “things”…

But they did not work either.

saddlebum · « **Reply #57 on:** March 18, 2011, 08:20:34 AM »

Quote from: williamlayton on March 18, 2011, 02:58:24 AM

Well, you can deny if you want----HOWEVER---at the local gunshow last weekend, you were not a well represented table if you did not have 10 different versions of these things.
It is the hottest thing on the market today--and--for a long time.
I am going to wait til the heat wears off and THEN--MAYBE--I will find some impitus to want one.
Then again---Maybe not.
Blessings

Thong underwear is really popular too. But I ain't goin there either!

PAHUnter04 · « **Reply #58 on:** March 27, 2011, 01:38:29 PM »

Hi Guys:

I had some time to kill and watched the video by quailkiller. It is very informative and interesting. I would NOT want to get hit with the Federal Buckshot 000 or the PDX1 ammo at 3 or 7 yards. I would also feel pretty good to use them in self defence if I had to at those distances and even at 10 yards.

I was also impressed with the accuracy of the video and my own Judge with the.45 Colts.

My Judge in the Jeep carries two Federal 000 Buckshot and three .45 LC's. Not that anybody would actually have the time in a gun fight. But you can rotate the cylinder and choose what loads you could or want to shoot first.

In the video that dude makes a pretty good point. Some of the people that are purchasing these handguns for SD are pretty lousy shots. Not everybody is going to pratice with their fire arm and know where it shoots. Yes they should, but you and I know that isn't going to happen.

Regards Jim P.

coyotejoe · « **Reply #59 on:** March 28, 2011, 04:26:08 AM »

In the current "American Rifleman" armed citizen section is the story of a lady who successfullly defended herself with a load of birdshot from her Judge. The attacker ran off but she said "I'm sure I hit him somewhere".