Author Topic: The Judge Handgun... Good Self Defense Handgun or Not?? (Read 30702 times)

Swampman · « **Reply #60 on:** April 11, 2011, 02:45:09 PM »

If they put wheels on the Judge it would be easier to move from place to place.

gr8ful · « **Reply #61 on:** April 11, 2011, 08:27:47 PM »

I kinda thought one of those poly public defenders might be just the ticket loaded with a charge of #9 shot for whackin snakes while out bumblin around in the woods.

PAHUnter04 · « **Reply #62 on:** April 12, 2011, 10:59:17 AM »

Guys:

Back to the topic at hand. I just read a test article on the .410 Federal Buckshot (4) pellets 000 Buckshot shot from a Judge. They are traveling 885 FPS, and EACH pellet is 62 grains a piece, and they are buffered and coated. That is the equivalent of a 248 grain slug @ 885 FPS.

They were fired into ballistic gelatin and had almost 10 inches of penetration, EACH. Now let's see (4) Pellets, 62 grains a piece, each ten inches deep, that's gotta hurt.

Yes the FBI wants a minimum of 12 in. penetration for their ammo, but how thick is your chest..LOL

But EACH one of those 62 grain pellets creates it's own wound channel, giving it a great mass of destruction. The article stated that at 10 yards the pattern opened up to about 4 inches. Then a funny thing happened, it didn't open up any farther. Even well past 30 feet the pattern was still about a 4 in. spread out to 15 and 20 yards.

I wouldn't want to count on a SD load of Buckshot past 20 yards anyway. But REMEMBER we are talking SD, probably inside a dwelling.
Just an FYI..

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #63 on:** April 12, 2011, 12:15:53 PM »

Quote from: PAHUnter04 on April 12, 2011, 10:59:17 AM

Guys:

Back to the topic at hand. I just read a test article on the .410 Federal Buckshot (4) pellets 000 Buckshot shot from a Judge. They are traveling 885 FPS, and EACH pellet is 62 grains a piece, and they are buffered and coated. That is the equivalent of a 248 grain slug @ 885 FPS.

They were fired into ballistic gelatin and had almost 10 inches of penetration, EACH. Now let's see (4) Pellets, 62 grains a piece, each ten inches deep, that's gotta hurt.

Yes the FBI wants a minimum of 12 in. penetration for their ammo, but how thick is your chest..LOL

But EACH one of those 62 grain pellets creates it's own wound channel, giving it a great mass of destruction. The article stated that at 10 yards the pattern opened up to about 4 inches. Then a funny thing happened, it didn't open up any farther. Even well past 30 feet the pattern was still about a 4 in. spread out to 15 and 20 yards.

I wouldn't want to count on a SD load of Buckshot past 20 yards anyway. But REMEMBER we are talking SD, probably inside a dwelling.
Just an FYI..

PAHUnter04, I would not want to be shot with any kind of shot out of any .410 I think more people need to do actual tests, before they put there opinion on such a topic. Way to many opinions with no fact to back up there claims.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #64 on:** April 13, 2011, 03:33:37 AM »

PAHUnter04,
When I did my testing with the Judge. I did a lot of penetration tests with different rounds. I did accuracy tests out to 25 yards as well. I did a big write up about the judge a while back, and had all the data on my last computer that crashed. I wish I still had it to post here.

Myself, I would only use the bird shot for snakes and maybe an up close mouse or rat. Even though I personally would not want to get shot with the bird shot, it is not a one or 2 shot stopper. I found the Judge to be very effective out to 10 yards with buck shot, and kept all the buck shot on target at that range. I was surprised at the accuracy of the 45 Colts in my Judge. I got a very tight 15 yard group with the gun I was using. I tried cowboy loads 255 gr. cast bullets and CCI Blazer ammo with the hollow point bullets. Both gave me good groups out to 15 yards, well within the range of the Judge, and what the gun was designed for. Up close protection.

The Judge is a big handgun and can be carried concealed, but finding the right holster can make it work. For the home or car, it is a good gun. I have a Bond Arms 410/45 and it is a blast to shoot. When and if I carry it, I only use buck shot or 45 Colts in it.

Are there better choices of defense hand guns, I am sure there are, and I have a few of them myself that I carry. I wish I still had all my data from the testing I did with the Judge, it would of been a great addition to this thread.

butchen · « **Reply #65 on:** July 16, 2011, 08:13:59 AM »

From what I read on the judge when it first came out it was made to use in suv's and crossover's for self defense the shot will spread out in that space and not get out of the car, so it was for stopping car jackers. Now that being said it was what I read not what I think, I think it's a gimick and don't even get me started on the 28ga that all I can find shells in is 6 and 7 shot!

PAHUnter04 · « **Reply #66 on:** July 17, 2011, 05:57:02 PM »

Stuff:

Just an FYI. I took a friend out yesterday who bought his first handgun to teach him the fundamentals. I suggested a revolver but he wanted a semiautomatic pistol. It shot well and he did very well for his first time. We ran over 100 rounds of 9MM before we brought out a couple of my handguns to play around with.

I also took my Glock 27, My Kahr PM9 9mm, and the infamous Judge. I also had a box of the new Federal .410 plated buckshot. Now I know some of you guys just think this revolver is REAL heavy to carry around, but it still feels very good in my hand. And I use MINE as either an RV bedroom or vacation / home night stand PD side arm.

We started at 7 yards with a full size silhouette BG target. At that distance the buckshot and the plastic wad blew through the Target with a neat two inch circle. A very big difference from the the old Winchester buckshot. At 15 yards there was about a 5 in circular group right in the chest area. To me it was impressive. I load mine with (3) Federal 2.5 in 000 buckshot and (2) and two .45 LC 200 grains at just over 1000 FPS, my handloads, by the way they are also accurate at PD distances.

I also have the new Winchester PDX1 with the three discs and plated BB's but didn't have time to put them through it's paces

I have many handguns worth thousands. Is this in the same league as my Colts, S&W's,Kimbers, Kahrs, Rugers and more, nope. But then again I didn't pay as much as I did for them.

But I still would bet my life on this revolver if I had to.

Regards PAH..

dakotashooter2 · « **Reply #67 on:** July 26, 2011, 11:05:38 AM »

While the concept is sound the practicallity isn't all it seems. First off one can easily find as effective a handgun (standard) in a smaller package. People have the impression that since it has multiple pellets it will be easier to hit with yet the ammo manufacturers are designing the ammo to keep a fairly tight pattern such as 4" at 10-15 yards. With that you really only gain about a 2" margin of error (accuracy) over a standard handgun round (at maximum range).Esentially at 10-15' if you are missing with a standard handgun projectile you ar probably gonna miss with the buckshot load or make a hit in a non vital area. While 3-5 pellets in the body can be devistating remember that the projectiles are basically acting like a FMJ bullet with little or no expansion and minimal shock. The larger the projectile/ hole the more shock it provides and generally the shock and damage cause by multiple small wounds (unexpanding projectile) isn't as devistating as that of a larger single wound (expanding projectile). This is important for one stop shots. The wound channel caused by a .38 cal HP may be 2 or even 3 times larger than that of a 36 cal buckshot. Personally I just fail to see any situation where the judge would be any better choice for SD than a standard handgun.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #68 on:** July 27, 2011, 06:04:17 AM »

Quote from: dakotashooter2 on July 26, 2011, 11:05:38 AM

While the concept is sound the practicallity isn't all it seems. First off one can easily find as effective a handgun (standard) in a smaller package. People have the impression that since it has multiple pellets it will be easier to hit with yet the ammo manufacturers are designing the ammo to keep a fairly tight pattern such as 4" at 10-15 yards. With that you really only gain about a 2" margin of error (accuracy) over a standard handgun round (at maximum range).Esentially at 10-15' if you are missing with a standard handgun projectile you ar probably gonna miss with the buckshot load or make a hit in a non vital area. While 3-5 pellets in the body can be devistating remember that the projectiles are basically acting like a FMJ bullet with little or no expansion and minimal shock. The larger the projectile/ hole the more shock it provides and generally the shock and damage cause by multiple small wounds (unexpanding projectile) isn't as devistating as that of a larger single wound (expanding projectile). This is important for one stop shots. The wound channel caused by a .38 cal HP may be 2 or even 3 times larger than that of a 36 cal buckshot. Personally I just fail to see any situation where the judge would be any better choice for SD than a standard handgun.

I don't think anyone said it was a better choice, just another choice is how I see it.. Nothing wrong with being able to choose what you like best. I have seen a lot of woman that love the Judge, they have problems with the slides on semi-auto's, and like the feel of the Judge over the standard J frame revolvers. But that is always a personal choice. Will the 45/410 get the job done? Sure it will, are their better choices, again sure their are!

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #69 on:** July 27, 2011, 10:49:28 AM »

Quote from: PAHUnter04 on February 28, 2011, 10:21:49 AM

Hi Guys:

Now before you guys go nuts, try taking a logical look at this handgun. I have seen some strong reactions to this handgun on here and the guys don't even own one.

First let me say that I own many, many handguns. Over 5 Colts, over 4 S&W, about 5 Rugers, 1 Savage, and yes one little Judge.

Remember I am saying defence handgun not Hunting handgun. I don't know that to many felons could stand up with a #4 shotload in the face at 5 feet from the little .410.

Not to mention the new Buckshot loads by Federal and Winchester. The federal .410 buckshot are four #00 Buckshot at 1200 FPS. The Winchester are three Cylindrical pellets and 12 BB's.

And last but not least the old .45 LC... mine shoots handloads of 200 grain SWC at 1000 FPS at 10 yards with head shots.

Is the fit and finish the quality of a Colt S&W, maybe not, but neither is the price. I did dispatch a big mountain rattler at the lakehouse with #6 Shot.

So what you do you think?

I think that if 45 Colt is being used there are many better revolvers to choose from with a better action ( shorter cyl and over all length ).
#6 shot or any fine shot , I say thick LEATHER COAT.
snake I find CCI snake shot works well in the 45 , 44, and 357/38 in a smaller package than 410 shells.
Buck shot I must ask do you really believe that 3-5 00 buck will do what a 250 gr LSWHP will do ? At SD range you could most likely miss with either so the spread is moot to me and if only a couple shot hit ? Which brings up the realization that the spread of buck shot makes it a less than accurate arm if percision was needed.
Now I learned these things from having a Contender with a 10 bbl with a choke and a Bond Arms derringer both 45/410 . Both did not have cyl. gap so no loss of power.
The Bond was a well made gun that would spread shot so bad it was useless at 10 feet. The contender was nice but big . I have shot the judge and don't see any advantage it offers over the disadvantages it brings with it.
The Judge is a exersize in marketing to a crowd that loves to try new toys and a crowd that likes to have what the other guy has. I might call it a gimick , I don't like trusting my life to a gimick if I don't have to.

saddlebum · « **Reply #70 on:** July 27, 2011, 04:07:19 PM »

SHOOTALL said,
" The Judge is a exersize in marketing to a crowd that loves to try new toys and a crowd that likes to have what the other guy has. I might call it a gimick , I don't like trusting my life to a gimick if I don't have to."

I agree with that except to say that in the beginning, I think the marketing took advantage of novice or non gun owners with the hype about it's dual "self defense" ammo capabilities. And then Shootall's assessment kicked in. I did mention in my first post that I tend to sound condecending when I comment on this subject. Sorry, I don't know how else to say it. And it's just my opinion..............
For whatever reason, the marketing strategy has worked so well that S&W is now selling a look-a-like.
Which is really weird considering it used to be the other way around. Doesn't say much for S&W in my opinion.
I will never own one. Hope others are happy with their purchase...............

mouse · « **Reply #71 on:** July 28, 2011, 01:01:15 AM »

i didn't want a Judge but after reading this thread I have decided to purchase one.
There are many negative opinions from people who don't own one, haven't shot one. Generally, the folks who own one speak highly of it. The true scientific approach is to buy one, test it, then establish an opinion. If it's not worthy, sell it.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #72 on:** July 28, 2011, 02:21:50 AM »

Quote from: mouse on July 28, 2011, 01:01:15 AM

i didn't want a Judge but after reading this thread I have decided to purchase one.
There are many negative opinions from people who don't own one, haven't shot one. Generally, the folks who own one speak highly of it. The true scientific approach is to buy one, test it, then establish an opinion. If it's not worthy, sell it.

The smart way may be borrow one or rent one at the range and try it on for size . I did handle one in a store several times and saved some cash as it just felt wrong .

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #73 on:** July 28, 2011, 05:10:59 AM »

Quote from: mouse on July 28, 2011, 01:01:15 AM

i didn't want a Judge but after reading this thread I have decided to purchase one.
There are many negative opinions from people who don't own one, haven't shot one. Generally, the folks who own one speak highly of it. The true scientific approach is to buy one, test it, then establish an opinion. If it's not worthy, sell it.

I thought I was the only one that did that...lol All of them people that say it probably will not shoot well, have never taken the time to actually do the test as many of us have. They are the ones that have all the negative comments. I know a lot of people that have them and love them. In a self defense situation, and at the distances most shooting occur, the Judge will do the job. Would I carry bird shot in my Judge for home defense, no I prefer to have the Remington OO buck shot or the Winchester disc's and BB shot, mixed with a few 45 Colts. Out to 10 yards I kept all my shots in the kill zone on my targets. I really am puzzled as to why so many people are hell bent on discrediting the Judge.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #74 on:** July 28, 2011, 05:23:37 AM »

So the Judge will make a .410 shell do things they won't do in a full sized shotgun with a full choke ? They give 3, 00 buck that weigh 53 gr each more power than a 250 bullet ? They give a revolver with almost as much freebore as the round itself is long when shooting 45 Colt rounds more stablity than a revolver made correctly to shoot 45 Colt ?
Keep in mind some can make an educated decision with the imformation at hand. Like they say ya don't need to be a vet to know what a horses butt looks like.
As a play thing at the range looks interesting as a first or only SD weapon no thanks. I based my dislike on the ammo as much as the gun . But both are not impressive in SD .IMHO.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #75 on:** July 28, 2011, 05:40:12 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on July 28, 2011, 05:23:37 AM

So the Judge will make a .410 shell do things they won't do in a full sized shotgun with a full choke ? They give 3, 00 buck that weigh 53 gr each more power than a 250 bullet ? They give a revolver with almost as much freebore as the round itself is long when shooting 45 Colt rounds more stablity than a revolver made correctly to shoot 45 Colt ?
Keep in mind some can make an educated decision with the imformation at hand. Like they say ya don't need to be a vet to know what a horses butt looks like.
As a play thing at the range looks interesting as a first or only SD weapon no thanks. I based my dislike on the ammo as much as the gun . But both are not impressive in SD .IMHO.

Oh quit it, nobody said any of what you posted! The judge it what it is, it is not a super gun, but it will get the job done.. Not once did I see anyone say it will out perform other guns. I just said it will get the job done, if you don't think so, come over to my house and break in, and see what it can do! Also when did a 45 Colt not make the list of a SD round?

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #76 on:** July 28, 2011, 06:14:13 AM »

Redhawk I said it where did I say others said it ? It was how I came to the conclusions I have . I looked at the gun with those ideas in mind. And I can't see how the judge over comes them .
Quit what looking beyond marketing to the real potential of the gun and seeing it for what i believe it is ? Ask yourself if someone jumped in the passanger seat of your vehicle with intent to car jack you would you want a 410 revolver or a 357 mah or maybe a 10 mm Glock . The OP was asking about SD not range time with a nolvety .

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #77 on:** July 28, 2011, 06:15:51 AM »

As for breaking in I would not as I work for my living.

Redhawk1 · « **Reply #78 on:** July 28, 2011, 06:37:08 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on July 28, 2011, 06:14:13 AM

Redhawk I said it where did I say others said it ? It was how I came to the conclusions I have . I looked at the gun with those ideas in mind. And I can't see how the judge over comes them .
Quit what looking beyond marketing to the real potential of the gun and seeing it for what i believe it is ? Ask yourself if someone jumped in the passanger seat of your vehicle with intent to car jack you would you want a 410 revolver or a 357 mah or maybe a 10 mm Glock . The OP was asking about SD not range time with a nolvety .

I really do not see any gun as a novelty! I have carried the NAA mini in 22 Mag, so sure I would not mind a 410 with buck shot in that situation.. Is a 357 Mag or 10 mm going to make that much of a difference at 1 foot, I don't think so. Also you are hung up on the 410, it also shoots 45 Colts, and I would bet my life on that round for sure. I carry several different kinds of guns, from my Ruger LCP 380 ACP to my XD 45 or my Sig 1911 in 45 ACP. I even carry my bond arms 410/45 Colt, and I feel safe with it. I would even bet my life on a 22 LR, as I know how to use them.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #79 on:** July 28, 2011, 09:12:15 AM »

They may in fact make a difference when you consider round count . At one foot you may be fighting to bring the weapon to bear and the Judge with 5 vs 15 in the Glock and as many as 8 in a 357 mag may be a good idea.
You opinion is yours and I do respect it . For me If i can avoid a fight I will. If there is any chance i will be involved in a fight I want every advantage I can. As for mouse guns to each his own , I had some but after seeing the power and the need to close to contact distance to assure you give it the best advantage you can ( sticking it in an eye , nose or ear ) i went with a larger gun. I live in a city that for a long time had shootings every night . It was #2 for a long time in murders per cap FBI stats. I saw several shootings and read about many more in the paper . This is in a city you can go thru. in 5 mins on the interstate and 20 on other roads. First any gun will kill you including a pellet gun. But very few can be counted on to stop someone in their tracks. That is my concern , the damage they can do while they die . Add drugs ( reason for most murders here) and stopping gets harder. I use terms like novelty gun , false security and such not to upset those who wish not to agree but to offer something for those who have not considerd the idea of what a gun needs to really do if one finds themselves in a bad situation.

PAHUnter04 · « **Reply #80 on:** July 29, 2011, 06:20:14 PM »

Quote from: saddlebum on July 27, 2011, 04:07:19 PM

SHOOTALL said,
" The Judge is a exercise in marketing to a crowd that loves to try new toys and a crowd that likes to have what the other guy has. I might call it a gimmick , I don't like trusting my life to a gimmick if I don't have to."

I agree with that except to say that in the beginning, I think the marketing took advantage of novice or non gun owners with the hype about it's dual "self defense" ammo capabilities. And then Shootall's assessment kicked in. I did mention in my first post that I tend to sound condecending when I comment on this subject. Sorry, I don't know how else to say it. And it's just my opinion..............
For whatever reason, the marketing strategy has worked so well that S&W is now selling a look-a-like.
Which is really weird considering it used to be the other way around. Doesn't say much for S&W in my opinion.
I will never own one. Hope others are happy with their purchase...............

Some interesting quotes, but I am neither a novice nor a beginner. I have many handguns and combat experience. So everybody is entitled to their opinion. marketing gimmick, maybe, but four or five MAJOR ammunition companies are NOW making ammo in .410 just for the Judge, or new Smith. You know they just didn't jump on the band wagon for the heck of it. It is a unique and great idea. I tried many times with the capsule shot shell in .357 and .44 Mag, gotta tell ya they really suck in a handgun. My Judge almost blew the head right of a copperhead at 7 feet with 6 shot.

Let's see, Ruger 204, gimmick?? or how about a Hornady 17 HRM, another gimmick? Just because it is different doesn't mean it isn't any good. I am a gun enthusiast and always have been. I have bought other Taurus revolvers, didn't like them and sold them. Heck I sold allot of Colts & Smiths that I shouldn't have.

The bottom line is, with the new ammo available, this is a reliable and deadly weapon. As stated are there better ones sure, are there worse ones sure. Nobody who knows they are expecting trouble says , oh I will just grab my .22 and take care of it. If I know I have trouble brewing the hell with it,I am grabbing my RRA LAR-15 with a couple of 30 round mags.

Also it is a good choice when wall penetration is a concern inside a home. The Buckshot will still probably penetrate wall board and sheetrock, but not as much as a 200 grain .45 LC at 1000 FPS.

I pooh poohed Glocks for a long time. Plastic this and that, ugly pistol and so on. Then a friend gave me to shoot at a range. Wow, shot lights out, felt great in my hand, I liked the trigger setup, bingo I bought a Glock 27 and I will buy another one.

Bottom line, don't knock it until you tried it, and tried it with the NEW BREED of ammo available from Federal, Winchester, and Remington just to name a few. Trust me, it is a WORLD of difference.

PAHunter

saddlebum · « **Reply #81 on:** July 29, 2011, 10:17:41 PM »

A person could make the same arguement about thong underwear.
Something that is just as silly as the Judge.......IMO

I've worn underwear all my life! I have many years of experience with underwear. I've worn boxers, different kinds of briefs, and a few different types of long johns.

Now, thong underwear is popular with alot of people. They have their reasons for wearing them. None of which I think are valid. In my opinion they are ridiculous and I won't take to wearing them just because the advertising says I should. Or because I just have a need for one of every kind of underwear.

My underwear works great and does the job it was designed to do very well. I don't feel the need to try some gimmick underwear because the underwear I have is tried and true and has never let me down. It does a better job of covering my butt. It's more comfortable. It's more practical. And, well, it's not silly.

The Judge is like thong underwear. It's an answer that has no question. It's silly looking. It feels weird. It does not do as good a job for what it was designed for. It's a gimmick.

You say, "don't knock it till you tried it"......No thanks! I have better things to do with my time and spend my money on. I would feel just as silly wearing a Judge on my hip as I would wearing thong underwear.

As you also said, everybody is intitled to their opinion. That is mine. Enjoy your thong underwear.

(this is just for fun, don't get mad)

hornady · « **Reply #82 on:** July 30, 2011, 05:21:42 AM »

Not that I care either way I have no plans of owning one, But I see in Guns & Ammo S&W now makes the Governor, their version of the Judge, in the add it states will fire 410/45LC and 45ACP with a moon clip. So someone must be buying these guns.

butchen · « **Reply #83 on:** July 30, 2011, 06:10:57 AM »

saddlebum: I am so happy you said "this is just for fun, don't get mad" there is just to much of taking someones opinion to heart like they are saying that the other person does not know what they are talking about. But it's not. It's just someones opinion that is all. They are not calling you out, they are just saying what they think about the gun, not that your wrong.
As for me I think it would be a fun toy to play with. But I have lots of toys (guns) that are just fun to play with. Take the 500 S&W mag. I have 12" one on an Encore frame. We all know it's to big for any thing in Mississippi. Me I am going to hog hunt with it. I have a friend that wild hogs are getting in with his hogs. A 44mag would do fine for that but I wanted the 500 and that is what I told my wife I was going to use it for. So I got my toy. I think the judge would do good for that too and you could use it to take out snakes too. But this is like I said just my opinion. It may not be the best thing for every thing but it could be fun for somethings. And it's not a wonder gun that will do it all. Its just a toy. So I say to all have fun with your toys. But be safe too. They may be toys but they are deadly toys.

ps. loved the thong (but now I have the "thong song" in my head lol)

PAHUnter04 · « **Reply #84 on:** July 30, 2011, 10:43:24 AM »

Hey.... I LIKE thongs...but luckily mine are stuffed with young women.

Hey Butchen how dare you put a post up that makes common sense.

I also have a 500 S&W, but mine is a 4in model. I keep telling my buddy in Georgia we have to go for pigs with pistols, trying to set up the hunt for this fall.

Now talk about a toy, the 500 is a TANK, weighs a TON, kicks like a castrated MULE, but what a ride. Is it for everyone sure as hell not. Is it fun, yepper to me.

I also have a .44Mag S&W 329PD for back woods travels. Nice and light, and using 255 grn Hard Cast over 10 grains of Unique. Still kicks pretty good. Do I need all these TOYS, heck no, do I need a Judge, same answer. Are they fun to shoot...YES

What other revolver can you put three different loads in one cylinder, NONE, besides the new S&W.

Gotta run...her comes my sweetie in her new thong, oops she forgot the top part.

PAH...

Ladobe · « **Reply #85 on:** July 30, 2011, 10:57:31 AM »

Quote

A person could make the same arguement about thong underwear.

I chuckled over that one, but it says it all... personal choice, and everybody is entitled to theirs.

Taurus has certainly jumped on this ones band wagon though, plugging it for vehicle defense and with so many models of it.

I've never owned or shot a Judge. But I've owned other 45/410 handguns with a little longer to much longer barrels. The 410 was mostly just a novelty, good for close up rattlers or bunnies, but not much else... the 45 not accurate enough for anything but close encounters. The long cylinder and short barrel of this revolver suggest the 45 would be lacking even more so than in those I've had with longer barrels. I wouldn't want one for protection, but that's just my personal choice. If it floats your boat and you would be confident with it, go for it. Still better than the poke in the eye you might have to rely on without something.

I was enough of a fan of Taurus revelovers in the 90's to add two of them to my CCW stable, and I had complete confidence in both of them.

butchen · « **Reply #86 on:** July 30, 2011, 12:05:54 PM »

PAHUnter: hogs are a blast!!! when you hit one in a pack of them the others will jump the one that's squealing. Can not wait till it's cool so they don't have so bad a smell. sorry not trying to take over the topic.
Yes I think the judge would be a great self defense handgun. Put light bird shot in it and you have a gun that is less likely to kill some one but would deff keep them from coming on after you. Sure it's big but being a big man I could hide one under a jacket in a shoulder holster and s&w adding the acp. I think it could be a good back woods gun. It may not group 45lc's great but you could keep BB heavy loads in a bear. And shot in snakes.
But like I said before it would be a fun toy!!!

Swampman · « **Reply #87 on:** August 01, 2011, 04:53:45 AM »

Don't shoot anything with a .410. You'll just make it mad.

1895gunner · « **Reply #88 on:** August 01, 2011, 05:10:32 AM »

I use mine while deer hunting for rattlers. At home for self defense loaded with 410 speciality rounds followed up by 45's.

butchen · « **Reply #89 on:** August 01, 2011, 05:19:50 AM »

Quote from: Swampman on August 01, 2011, 04:53:45 AM

Don't shoot anything with a .410. You'll just make it mad.

Swampman why do you say that? the Velocity of a 410 is about 100 to 200 fps slower than a 12 gauge just less shot. go to http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/shotshells/upland-loads/express-extra-long-range.aspx and click on specifications. Well that is the way I read it anyway. If I'm wrong please let me know, I'm not trying to start anything. I was just going by what the charts say.

1895gunner love the light!!