Author Topic: The Judge Handgun... Good Self Defense Handgun or Not?? (Read 28787 times)

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #90 on:** August 01, 2011, 05:42:57 AM »

First nither the 204 Ruger or 17 HMR are not billed as self defense guns . Second why not offer novelty ammo for a novelty gun ? As for fps on 410 loads 1200 fps is standard for most gauges and bore. Some exceed these speeds though. Every so many years some kid kills a deer with a 410 and its a big deal and gets in the local papers . I have to wonder how many articles there would be if they printed failures to stop the deer ?

butchen · « **Reply #91 on:** August 01, 2011, 08:14:30 AM »

SHOOTALL I know what you mean about the boy and the dear. But I was talking about bird shot inside a SUV. It's something any one could pick up and get some of the shot on the person trying to carjack there suv. There is no do-it-all gun (well maybe the 'tender and the Encore......lol) To me this would be something I would put in the door pocket and not try to carry and the bird shot at lower fps would not kill but would sting like mad. And some have had luck killing snakes with it. I think it's a cool toy. But if I was going to get something to use to kill with it would be my 4 5/8 blackhawk or any revolver or auto made for that. And we are all just friends talking here. I like to talk things out and see what others have to say on it. I am don't care for it but I don't hate it. I do see where it may help someone. But all in all it's just a neat toy. And he with the most toys wins. Have a great day.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #92 on:** August 01, 2011, 08:53:37 AM »

I think the word kill is not a good choice for me to use. I will say stop the attack. Where I live it gets cold and to be honest some who live on the street wear thick clothers year round. As much as we want to not hurt people when they wish to hurt us we better have the tools to stop their attack as fast as possible. At bad breath range I just don't see anything comming out of a revolver bbl beating a controlled expanding bullet . That said there are better choices than a gun with a long cyl. IMHO. Why you ask ? because at that distance all the attacker has to do is get his hand on the cyl. to tie up the gun. If he has you in strength you just lost your equalizer.
There are many models of guns made by great companies all over the world that just didn't work as well as the marketing claimed. They didn't fit self defense . Some didn't function 100% others shot a weak round others didn't carry well.
Hey the same population that buys the judge at one time bought pet rocks

BTW enjoy your judge if you like it my opinion is just that mine and has nothing to do with yours. And I hope nither of us ever needs to find out if our choice was a good one .

butchen · « **Reply #93 on:** August 01, 2011, 09:18:07 AM »

Dude don't get me wrong I don't want one at all. It's just a toy. I have no use for one. I will keep my cannons and a knife to do what I need done. If he is in "bad breath range" (BTW I like that and am going to use it) my knife will do all I need done. if he is out of knife range my little cannon will do it no matter how much clothes he has on. Thanks for the talk most take all this to personal you have a good head on and can be talked to with out you getting mad like it's going to kill you if you don't get me to believe like you. thanks

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #94 on:** August 01, 2011, 09:21:41 AM »

KNIFE , yes my Benchmade

, and it never ever needs a reload

I didn't make up bad breath range , but it is a good one.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #95 on:** August 01, 2011, 09:33:28 AM »

It seemed to be informative with reguard to SD and the OP.

Axehandle · « **Reply #96 on:** August 01, 2011, 09:56:36 AM »

Personal matter... For me, "NOT" In my house I'd hate to think that I'd hesitate to head shoot someone standing behind one of the girls because my handgun shot a pattern....

no guns here · « **Reply #97 on:** August 15, 2011, 11:33:22 AM »

Actually, I might just have to move the Judge up on my list right to the top. I just found a small rattler up by my porch last night. That means there is probably more around as well as a couple of bigger ones. Got lucky and saw it move as I was reaching for the valve to turn off my sprinklers. Later, I bought some CCI shotshells for my .45 but then it has to be loaded/unloaded to get one in the chamber. Wouldn't be a bad idea to have a Judge around with some .410's in it. The smaller one with the 2.5" cylinder would be fine. Easier to carry around than a shotgun. I'd just stick with #8's for snakes around the place with maybe 2 .45's in it for scaring off dogs/coyotes or whatever. This is what I see the Judge's niche as. A carry gun/truck gun for snakes with a couple of .45's for backup just in case.

NGH

saddlebum · « **Reply #98 on:** August 15, 2011, 09:25:10 PM »

Even old Sam picked up a pair of Judges!

But I still ain't goin there......nope!

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #99 on:** August 16, 2011, 03:54:13 AM »

Haven't seen a snake that a 38 spl loaded with shot won't take out with a shot to the head.
And old Sam was laughed at

Still can't think of a good use for the Judge , to lite for a boat anchor .

no guns here · « **Reply #100 on:** August 16, 2011, 09:09:19 AM »

well, at least one use is the same as that .38 special except you get a crap-load more shot in each round. Ohhh... the follow ups weigh about 240 grains versus 158...

NGH

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #101 on:** August 16, 2011, 09:21:32 AM »

That's true you get alot of shot in a doughnut pattern so the follow up might be nessary if you can't use kentucky windage to put the pattern on the target. But with the free bore involved with a gap at the end you might cartwheel into the target or pass with those 250 slugs . ( most factory 45 Colt are 250 gr I belive ) . I could note that those 38 slugs could come from a 357 mag which has a much better reputation for one shot stops also.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #102 on:** August 16, 2011, 09:22:39 AM »

my vote is still bad

no guns here · « **Reply #103 on:** August 16, 2011, 11:30:05 AM »

I haven't seen any reviews that refer to the pattern as a donut. Why would there be a donut pattern? If a .38 special with 109 grains of shot (CCI) will deal with a snake and doesnt throw a donut pattern, then how much more effective would a .410 with 1/2 (just under 300 shot) to 11/16 ounce of shot be without the donut pattern?
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm
http://www.gunblast.com/Taurus-Judge.htm
http://www.survivalreviews.com/index.php/reviews/reviewsguns/154-taurus
I agree with one of the reviews that I read. This isn't a .45 that shoots .410's, it is a .410 that shoots .45's. The accuracy seems to run in the 5-6 inch range at 25 yds. Commonly accepted standard for combat handguns is 4" at 25 yds. A 25% to 50% increase in this could be significant but I danged sure wouldn't stand 25 yds away from anyone with 250 grain .45 Colt bullets in a Judge and let them fire away. Likewise the .410 pattern doesn't extend very far but then this isn't a trap gun... The farthest distance anywhere in my house is less than 60 feet, that's from one end to the other. From my bedroom door the farthest distance is about 35 feet. That shot group of 5"-6" just shrunk to 2"-4". The pattern on that .410 is (for me) just fine considering that the snake that I would probably shoot would be from 5-15 feet. Personally, at 2-3 yds, I'd much rather bust a snake with a .410 versus a .38 or .22 with ratshot.
I'd RATHER use my .45 1911 BUT I wouldn't feel undergunned against someone in my house with a .45 Colt that could only shoot 4" or less at those distances. I would RATHER use a 12 ga on a rattler but I wouldn't feel undergunned with a .410 at 1-5 yds either.
I can see carrying a Judge while hunting or working out in the field here in TX. Easier to shoot a rattler under your stand with a .410 than a .308. Not ineffective against yote's, bobcat or whatever with a .45 Colt either.
Not bad, just not the BEST tool for ANY job but definitely effective for several jobs.

NGH

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #104 on:** August 16, 2011, 11:47:50 AM »

most any rifled bbl will throw a dough nut pattern . Thompson Center Arms added a choke tube with stright rifling to correct the problem . Some smooth bore guns with very long bbld do also a a wad lock choke with stright line rifling is aval. I load my own Speer capsuels and don't know the weight or shot count , but so far only a few shot have been need to dispatch a snake . More of course could be better in some cases wher damage is of no concern like close to your leg or pet . As for the combat group size, If that suits you then OK. I figure if I start with a gun that can shoot a better group my lack of steadyness might not be as big of a factor in a high stress situation. I don't advocate shooting past love ones or shooting the guy holding a love one hostage . If a love one is to die let the bad guy do it. But at the off chance you find a percise shot would come in handy is the Judge the gun you want in hand ?maybe a bad dog attacking your pet or such. Better to have a gun that can do that than one with a patterm IMHO.
I don't expect to change anyones mind really but this is why I find the judge not a good SD gun.

zorba · « **Reply #105 on:** August 23, 2011, 04:02:38 PM »

I have shot the Judge, and I would not recommend getting one for self defense. It is large, awkward, poorly balanced, and not very accurate with .45 Colt ammo. It's also awkward to carry in a holster. For those who live in an area where you see a lot of poisonous snakes near residences buildings, it would be a decent special purpose snake gun.

If you really want a Taurus self defense revolver, there are better choices than the Judge. IMO, one of their best choices is the stainless steel 7 shot, .357 mag Tracker with 4" barrel. Load it with Speer short barrel .357 ammo, and you have a lightweight, compact, well balanced, accurate, easy to shoot, handsome revolver that is easy to carry concealed in a holster. The ones I have fired have a good smooth trigger pull in double and single action. Only downside is the ported barrel makes it hard to clean if you shoot many lead bullets. Also, Speer warns that no handgun with a ported barrel (or comp) is safe to fire with any kind of shot shell ammo.

It's you money; get what you want. But IMO, you can do a lot better than the judge.

The Old Redneck · « **Reply #106 on:** August 27, 2011, 02:56:12 AM »

I bought a Judge a few years ago as a snake gun. It is loaded with AA#8's and I carry it when mowing the yard. One shot is all it takes and I never get off the mower. A while back the question
came up about shooting .45 ACP's in one with full moon clips. I have a few of the .45 acp Trackers so I loaded the Judge with 230 grain ball ammo and tried it. It worked fine and shot to point of aim. I must have the exception in Judges. Mine is a 3" barrel ultralite with the 2 1/2" cylinder. At 25 yards it shoots most 45 Colt and 45 acp under 4" shooting offhand. It would do better from a rest. At 7 yards it is point of aim, point of impact with everything I have tried in it. It will always be a snake gun for me. I carry a Glock 45 acp but after shooting some of the new .410 loads and 45's in it I would not feel under gunned with it.

evidrine · « **Reply #107 on:** November 21, 2011, 11:52:10 AM »

I personally see the judge as a great "home defence" gun. Lets face the facts here, why would you need a home defence weapon? For home invasions of course. Usually happens at night. Instead of being rudely awakened and having to quickly fumble around in the dark and pull off a quick shot while an intruder is staring me in face with something I have to dial in and aim, I would much prefer to pull off a quick shot with something that will easily reach the end of my room or doorway and leave a spread that will cover most of the wall. This followed by a couple more then a few rounds that you have time to aim and make count seems like good personal protection to me. Not to mention shooting rounds that will not penetrate into other rooms of your home where your children or other family members are alseep in. Night time is not always the case, but still the judge will reach across nearly any room in your house, in most cases even a hall way. Even if one .410 shot does not stop him it will deff make him sh** his pants especially if its followed by you emptying he rest of you cylinder on him. Stun him then finnish him! Most of the time when someone is attacked in their vehicle the perp is usually right outside the door or window. Its not often you have to shoot accross a football field at an attacker. Sure it happens, but this isnt the movies. If your getting shot at from that far your best bet is to get the hell out of there or stay hidden. Most cases things happen close and fast. You need to fire quick and know you will at least hit something. Sorry about the rant, just my two cents.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #108 on:** November 22, 2011, 07:19:37 AM »

I see the judge as a gimmick same for derringers . There are many weapons that serve the role of selfdefense better.

saddlebum · « **Reply #109 on:** November 22, 2011, 09:35:30 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on August 16, 2011, 03:54:13 AM

Haven't seen a snake that a 38 spl loaded with shot won't take out with a shot to the head.
And old Sam was laughed at
Still can't think of a good use for the Judge , to lite for a boat anchor .

Paper weight?........Nah! I'd rather use a rock. A rock is prettier!

ronbow · « **Reply #110 on:** November 30, 2011, 10:21:47 AM »

Quote from: Bigeasy on March 01, 2011, 01:06:59 PM

Well, since everyone else is expressing an opinion, here's mine-

I shot one belonging to a friend last year. Seems like a "fun" gun to play with, and no doubt it would be effective with buck shot loads at close range in a defensive situation.

Problem is, while most defensive shootings take place up close, not all do. So now you have several issues. Reduced stopping power and penetration is one. Another is lack of pin point accuracy - if several buck shot or pellets miss your target, you are responsible for where they end up, and that could be a consideration depending on where you are during a confrontation.

Round capacity, and bulky size are other issues that I think disqualify it from being a good choice for all around self defence. A modern hi cap auto, loaded with quality hollow points in a suitable caliber will be smaller, more accurate, and provide more reliable stopping power with increased cartridge count, an important consideration as not all felons come alone.

That said, sure it can be an effective weapon, I just feel its effectiveness comes in too narrow a window for an all around defensive weapon.

Larry

What he said specially "too narrow a window.......". Snakes? I live and hunt in Florida and have given the right of way to many a moc/rattler or if they were on my property I grabbed my snake stick and tapped out. The Judge is a fad gun.

PAHUnter04 · « **Reply #111 on:** December 11, 2011, 02:42:30 PM »

Yeah this fad gun just keeps on going and going and going. The darn thing is like the eveready bunny. Now S&W, jumps on the band wagon. Let's see there is now about five major ammo makers making special ammo for them. It seems this FAD gun has created a whole new market for the poor little .410 shot shell. Now they are even selling combo packs, half Winchester PDX1 loads and half .45 long colt. Oh and now there are about four or five different models of The Judge to boot.

Again, I ran two shots of the New Federal .410 000 4 pellet Buckshot, backed up by three .45 long Colts at 10 yards. I can cover the entire group with the palm of my hand. And those little 200 grain Hornady hard cast 45 slugs are traveling a little over 1000 FPS. But hey they won't hurt to much when you get hit.

Name me one other revolver that you can load THREE different types of ammo at one time. Bang... .410 #6 shot dead snake, Bang home intruder at 5 yards 000 Buckshot....bang .45 Colt at 20 yards..

Now not all in the same scenario, but all in the same revolver. Again is it the ultimate HD revolver, hell no. That's my Mossy 930 SPX tact 12. gauge shotty. Is it my main squeeze CC weapon, nope that's my Glock 27. Is it my heavy hitter when I know trouble will be brewing, nope that's my Colt or Kimber .45 ACP. Is there 25 zombies trying to kill my family nope it's mt RRA LAR AR-15.... Is it a fun gun to shoot when by the lake and in the back forty where maybe the big mountain rattlers are sunning, and have two or three .45 LC's just in case the snakes might have two legs. Why heck yeah.

Hey if you don't like it, don't buy it. It is a unique idea in a revolver. There have been a hell of allot of them sold. Fad maybe, but it's all ready broken sales records.

Regards... PAH

yooper77 · « **Reply #112 on:** December 13, 2011, 02:28:46 AM »

Yes its a FAD, but not surprised at ammo or other firearm manufactures getting on the bandwagon.

As all Fad's go, run with it until the money runs out.

Quote from: PAHUnter04 on December 11, 2011, 02:42:30 PM

Name me one other revolver that you can load THREE different types of ammo at one time.

The Smith & Wesson's Governor revolver actually can load THREE different types of ammo at one time. Bang! - .410 2 1/2 shotshells, Bang! - 45 ACP (2 round/6 round moon clips included) and Bang! - 45 Colt. This is the one I would buy, but I am not into novelty guns.

yooper77

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #113 on:** December 13, 2011, 02:51:54 AM »

P.T.Barnum said a sucker is born.........................Guess the firearms industry is looking like a circus with 410 shotgun revolvers and plastic guns in pink and purple to just name a few oddities the marketing guys are tempting the buyers with.

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #114 on:** December 13, 2011, 02:55:47 AM »

Quote from: yooper77 on December 13, 2011, 02:28:46 AM

Yes its a FAD, but not surprised at ammo or other firearm manufactures getting on the bandwagon.

As all Fad's go, run with it until the money runs out.

Quote from: PAHUnter04 on December 11, 2011, 02:42:30 PM
Name me one other revolver that you can load THREE different types of ammo at one time.

My 357 mag can shoot 38 spl. 357 mag and shot shells that's really nothing new now is it ?

yooper77 · « **Reply #115 on:** December 13, 2011, 04:00:04 AM »

Quote from: SHOOTALL on December 13, 2011, 02:55:47 AM

Quote from: yooper77 on December 13, 2011, 02:28:46 AM
Yes its a FAD, but not surprised at ammo or other firearm manufactures getting on the bandwagon.

As all Fad's go, run with it until the money runs out.

Quote from: PAHUnter04 on December 11, 2011, 02:42:30 PM
Name me one other revolver that you can load THREE different types of ammo at one time.

My 357 mag can shoot 38 spl. 357 mag and shot shells that's really nothing new now is it ?

Absolutely, as with:

460 S&W Magnum will chamber 454 Casull, 45 Colt and 45 S&W Schofield.

357 Maximum will chamber 357 Magnum, and 38 Special.

yooper77

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #116 on:** December 13, 2011, 07:20:04 AM »

If your counting moon clips and ACP as a type the Judge would be up to 4 (a previous poster shot ACP in his). Having read through this whole thread I'd say the Judge's advocates have made a reasonable case for it as a HOME defense weapon and a vehicle protection gun. It also sounds like a reasonable choice at fending off predators. It MIGHT be too large for some people to carry concealed, depending on the person and the model. I will say that those who all write it off as too large out of hand would be well served by talking to my uncle who has been carrying a 5" barreled 1911 in a shoulder holster for 25 years (not exactly a Derringer there). I think those who are commenting so negatively are way off base it has it's uses and place maybe not in their hands, but that doesn't make it useless junk or just a "novelty".

PAHUnter04 · « **Reply #117 on:** December 13, 2011, 10:25:12 AM »

Now Kevin there you go being just plain level headed and logical again.

Regards PAH

glockman55 · « **Reply #118 on:** December 13, 2011, 12:55:17 PM »

Knife to a gun fight now thats funny..Sorry but I won't be smelling any bad breath..LOL

kevinsmith5 · « **Reply #119 on:** December 13, 2011, 04:34:36 PM »

Somebody has to ask this:

What the heck have some of you folks done to get the Yakuza and/or Russian Mob mad at you? You talk as if you expect at any moment to be assaulted by former Spetsnaz or Ninjas with Uzi's as you walk down the street.

Truth is the vast majority of the BG's in the real non-cinematic world are not quite as hardy or well armed as this thread is leaning towards making it sound. Heck, most burglars break into an occupied house cause they think its empty, the sound of a shotgun racking will send them on their merry way. Confidence is high on my point that a .38 Special snubby is probably sufficient for most true SD situations to this day. If you have soe reason to expect to be in a true Rambo-style shoot-out that is one thing, but for the average citizen the likelihood of needing more than 5-6 shots at close range is about the same as getting struck in the yard with rogue meteor. Making it sound like any one armed with less than a pair of 50 AE's with a snubby .357 in an ankle holster for back-up is no better off than unarmed man just discourages people from doing what really matters, which is being armed with SOMETHING.