Author Topic: Ill atty general wants to make firearms owners list public.  (Read 517 times)

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Offline powderman

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Mr. Charles Glenn “Charlie” Nelson, age 73, of Payneville, KY passed away Thursday, October 14, 2021 at his residence. RIP Charlie, we'll will all miss you. GB

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Offline Pat/Rick

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Re: Ill atty general wants to make firearms owners list public.
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2011, 06:09:47 PM »
Good for the police.

maybe the putz attny gen should make his address public as well.?
How about child molesters?
How about abortion drs?.
how about people who have had abortions?.
How about illegal aliens.?
muslims?

Offline MGMorden

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Re: Ill atty general wants to make firearms owners list public.
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2011, 05:49:57 AM »
Pat: Most of those items that you listed are public if they're stored (which the first half of your list IS, and I'd almost guarantee you could get if you submit a FOIA request).

As it stands, legally, due to the Freedom of Information Act unless it is a matter of national security, typically anything in a government database must be legally turned over if requested by a citizen.  I've prepared a slew of these types of reports and data extractions myself - just the way the system works.  We're in violation of the law if we don't hand over the data when requested (typically within a certain number of days - 14 if I remember correctly - not sure as I typically just prepare the data and the legal department handles delivery).

The best way to keep information from being made public is typically to resist it being tracked in the first place.  We've not obliged to hand over anything we don't track (and naturally, we can't - you can't hand over data that doesn't exist). 

Offline Pat/Rick

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Re: Ill atty general wants to make firearms owners list public.
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2011, 06:34:58 AM »
Thanks. I understand that , tired of assaults on rights.  So then I'll ask you, if the list is made public, and later a crime is committed at one of the residences listed, where a person is killed, who quite normally otherwise could not have been,guns are stolen, a perpetrator ends up specifying that he went to a specific residence listed to steal guns, is the attny general liable as an accessory?  Maybe the courts could mandate more assistance to criminals by publishing jewelry store purchases.  This could quite possibly be a discriminatory attack on one group of peoples  and I would believe that the right to remain secure in our affairs would be covered here as well. Medical information is protected by HIPA laws, I also view the attny gens proposed action as an assault on the 2nd A. But if it does pass muster, there is no doubt that our corrupt courts would uphold the "law".

Offline MGMorden

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Re: Ill atty general wants to make firearms owners list public.
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2011, 07:22:21 AM »
Quote
So then I'll ask you, if the list is made public, and later a crime is committed at one of the residences listed, where a person is killed, who quite normally otherwise could not have been,guns are stolen, a perpetrator ends up specifying that he went to a specific residence listed to steal guns, is the attny general liable as an accessory?

No, because he was following the law.  If the information ISN'T handed over you're in violation of Federal Law (FOIA).

Quote
Maybe the courts could mandate more assistance to criminals by publishing jewelry store purchases

If the government tracked them then by law you could indeed get that list.  It's all about the owner of the data though.  The idea is that the government is paid for by the people, and so except for matters of national security, any information in a government database is owned by the people.  If they want it, they get it.  Most people don't realize that, and a lot of areas of government aren't eager to promote that fact, but that's the way it is.

In the jewelry store example though, no database likely exists (on the government level).  You can't ask for what they don't have.

Quote
This could quite possibly be a discriminatory attack on one group of peoples  and I would believe that the right to remain secure in our affairs would be covered here as well.

Unfortunately there is not really a right to privacy in this country.  Whether that's right or wrong is another debate, but as it stands, anything outside the doors of your home is pretty much open game. 

Quote
Medical information is protected by HIPA laws, I also view the attny gens proposed action as an assault on the 2nd A. But if it does pass muster, there is no doubt that our corrupt courts would uphold the "law".

Most data that is covered under HIPA is kept by private companies.  Private companies aren't effected by FOIA.  Government entities operate under different laws.  For the most part, aside from VERY private details such as a social security number (and things covered under HIPA, though as I said that's typically not government maintained - that may be changing soon though), a government must BY LAW hand over just about anything requested of it.

You want to know the address of the attorney general?  Go to whatever county he lives in and I guarantee it's out there.  Heck just on our website without having to file paperwork you can search for a person and see every piece of property they own, the past ownership history, their current mailing address, which home they actually live in (in the event that they own more than one), whether or not they pay their tax bills on time, and photos of the property both from the air and street.  That's just with a 2 minute search on the website.  If you're willing to come in and file the paperwork with the attorney you can get a lot more than that (ie, criminal records and code violations by a certain person and the like - you can even get audio recordings of any court trial you want). 

We even had judges request that their info be taken off the web, and after review we had to simply say that it wasn't permissible under law to remove their info.

As I said, the absolute best way to avoid this information being made public is to avoid having it tracked in the first place.  Resist firearms registration and permits required for carry, because when it comes down to it, if it's tracked, then it's public info.

Offline Pat/Rick

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Re: Ill atty general wants to make firearms owners list public.
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2011, 07:39:23 AM »
MGM, Thanks for the in depth answers.

Offline The Hermit

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Re: Ill atty general wants to make firearms owners list public.
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2011, 06:13:31 PM »
If I'm not mistaken, I believe that in New York State, the data list of pistol permit holders was released on a Freedom of Information order, which I believe that the State police had to provide.
As a permit holder, I was a bit mifed. But, so far, I haven't received any junk mail or communications about my hand guns. It is a matter of public record, so it is available. I doubt that anyone could sue over this release of information. Local concern was that the list would be used by criminals looking for sources of hand guns to steal.

The Hermit