Author Topic: things ain't good in va. (Read 1398 times)

fatercat · « **on:** March 03, 2011, 01:01:35 PM »

went to fill up truck with gas on the way to feed store. was buying corn to feed the deer and paid $9.96 for 50lb. bag. gas was $3.23 a gal. just what in the hell is going on?

??

Bugflipper · « **Reply #1 on:** March 03, 2011, 01:08:29 PM »

I started raising my own feed when corn jumped from $4.50 to $7.50 a bag. $10 will definitely put a lot of small farmers out. I imagine it will be higher before this is over. Ethanol will climb with the greed of gas prices.

mechanic · « **Reply #2 on:** March 03, 2011, 01:14:29 PM »

Hate to tell you, but you ain't seen nothin' yet. This is just the beginning. Right now most commodities are traded in U. S. Dollars, but there is a move afoot to replace the dollar as world currency. It most likely will succeed, due to our own gov's incompetence. If or when it does, we will immediately become a third world nation.

Better pray, we will need all the help we can get.

Ben

srussell · « **Reply #3 on:** March 03, 2011, 01:55:12 PM »

ethanol wont help less gas they sell higher the price thats been proven. i cant for the life of me see burning food. ethanol can be made from most organic things just cost more to do it

Sourdough · « **Reply #4 on:** March 03, 2011, 02:05:04 PM »

Using our food supply to make fuel was the stupidist thing the country has done. That ran up the cost of fuel, beef, chicken, turkey, and all the other products that we get from corn.

Conan The Librarian · « **Reply #5 on:** March 03, 2011, 03:52:09 PM »

Interesting note about this: remember CARE the CARE package people? They used to acquire surplus food and ship it to places that needed it. They don't do that anymore because there is no surplus food.

powderman · « **Reply #6 on:** March 03, 2011, 04:58:24 PM »

SOURDOUGH. YEP, agreed. Several years ago a friend bought a heating stove that burned corn. POWDERMAN.

The Hermit · « **Reply #7 on:** March 03, 2011, 06:43:21 PM »

I paid $ 3.65 for gas today and they were changing the price on the sign while I was there.

The Hermit

Hit or Miss · « **Reply #8 on:** March 04, 2011, 02:56:09 AM »

Stock up on food folks!!!! It's going to be a long scary ride!!

slim rem 7 · « **Reply #9 on:** March 04, 2011, 03:13:53 AM »

i agree..its could get rough.. but change is constant..we gonna have to help each other get by..
in my opinion a little suffering will be good for the soul..
who knows what it will take,, to make this nation humble enough to turn back to the creator..

SHOOTALL · « **Reply #10 on:** March 04, 2011, 03:21:54 AM »

Selling beef cows because to costly to feed . Corn doubled in price and hay went from 12 dollars a round bale to $45-$50 . It was iffy at $25 a bale .

srussell · « **Reply #11 on:** March 04, 2011, 08:24:38 AM »

we were going on a long trip this summer.but the way it looks ill probably raise a big garden was going to go small so much for relaxing

guzzijohn · « **Reply #12 on:** March 04, 2011, 10:14:46 AM »

Food quality corn does not go into ethanol. Only the hard type of field corn that is of animal feed quality.
GuzziJohn

billy_56081 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 04, 2011, 12:11:58 PM »

I guess that means all the corn chips, corn bread, corn syrup, corn flakes and corn tortillas I ate were imaginary. And I am also imagining eating it in my chicken, pork, turkey and beef. Corn is going very high just watch your food bill.

mechanic · « **Reply #14 on:** March 04, 2011, 12:27:00 PM »

We have an ethanol plant in Ga. that produces alchohol from biomass waste products. It is built on the site of what was to be a Ford plant before Ford backed out after the state built the site. My understanding is it takes 1 and 1/2 as much energy to produce a gallon of ethanol as we get from it.

A great deal for all concerned, wouldn't you say?

Ben

guzzijohn · « **Reply #15 on:** March 04, 2011, 01:35:10 PM »

Quote from Billy:

Quote

I guess that means all the corn chips, corn bread, corn syrup, corn flakes and corn tortillas I ate were imaginary.

No, it means that they did not come from the same variety of corn. If your chips, etc. were made out of the same grade of corn that ethanol is made from they would be tough and taste like crap.
GuzziJohn

Hooker · « **Reply #16 on:** March 04, 2011, 01:59:39 PM »

Quote from: guzzijohn on March 04, 2011, 10:14:46 AM

Food quality corn does not go into ethanol. Only the hard type of field corn that is of animal feed quality.
GuzziJohn

Where did you dig up that little chunk of wizdum?

Pat

billy_56081 · « **Reply #17 on:** March 04, 2011, 02:13:01 PM »

Quote from: guzzijohn on March 04, 2011, 01:35:10 PM

Quote from Billy:
Quote
I guess that means all the corn chips, corn bread, corn syrup, corn flakes and corn tortillas I ate were imaginary.

No, it means that they did not come from the same variety of corn. If your chips, etc. were made out of the same grade of corn that ethanol is made from they would be tough and taste like crap.
GuzziJohn

Guzzi you don't have any clue what you are talking about. Hmm, I am wondering what that darn field corn was doing in Malt O Meal, Quaker oats, Mission foods, ADM, Kerry ect. ect. when I service those places. Sorry dude I work around places that use standard field corn every week. You don't know what you are blabbering about. Oh by the way I do work in several ehtanol plants also.

powderman · « **Reply #18 on:** March 04, 2011, 02:29:37 PM »

Quote

Food quality corn does not go into ethanol. Only the hard type of field corn that is of animal feed quality.
GuzziJohn

HEH, good one. I love your sense of humor. More good stuff from the dnc??? POWDERMAN.

Pat/Rick · « **Reply #19 on:** March 04, 2011, 05:29:11 PM »

If you have the room maybe grow your own feed?? Hope to someday, might not be able to afford a tractor but I can hire the initial ground work done. Would a chipper/shredder work to grind corn stalks and cobs into silage?

Empty Quiver · « **Reply #20 on:** March 04, 2011, 08:02:00 PM »

Quote from: billy_56081 on March 04, 2011, 02:13:01 PM

Quote from: guzzijohn on March 04, 2011, 01:35:10 PM
Quote from Billy:
Quote
I guess that means all the corn chips, corn bread, corn syrup, corn flakes and corn tortillas I ate were imaginary.

No, it means that they did not come from the same variety of corn. If your chips, etc. were made out of the same grade of corn that ethanol is made from they would be tough and taste like crap.
GuzziJohn

Guzzi you don't have any clue what you are talking about. Hmm, I am wondering what that darn field corn was doing in Malt O Meal, Quaker oats, Mission foods, ADM, Kerry ect. ect. when I service those places. Sorry dude I work around places that use standard field corn every week. You don't know what you are blabbering about. Oh by the way I do work in several ehtanol plants also.

I'm gonna throw my .02 in here. You both are correct. Food grade corn could be considered the sweet corn we all enjoy, as well as the flinty corn used for grits, or the special corn grown from seed approved by Frito Lay for their use in making corn chips. Food grade corn could also be #2 and higher grade feed corn used to produce corn syrup, corn oil, corn flour, and other additive type food products.

The vast majority of the corn you see grown across this country is not being eaten by humans, it is feed stock for cattle and ethanol plants as well. The distillers grain left over from distillation is then fed to livestock, it's not like they are taking all this to a dump after sugar extraction.

I will also agree that using corn to produce alcohol is an asinine political stunt. The farmers, the oil companies and ADM (add local distillers as needed) are all making money from this. Between tax incentives and the simple fact that you need more raw energy inputs to produce ethanol than the energy retrieved, it is a fiasco. On a strictly personal basis ethanol might be economically feasible that is you get more back than you pay for in taxes. Nationwide though, it is a sink hole for tax receipts.

guzzijohn · « **Reply #21 on:** March 05, 2011, 01:48:28 AM »

Here is a fairly straight forward explanation:
Ethanol's undeserved bad rap
March 04, 2011

I read your editorial "Burning Dinner" and question your implication that farmers are diverting corn toward fuel production that otherwise would be used to feed a hungry world.

First of all, the public should know that the corn grown to make ethanol is not the same type of corn Americans eat directly. The vast fields of corn commonly viewed from any highway, while appearing nearly identical to the "sweet corn" we eat at home, is actually a different crop. The fact is, only about 1 percent of the corn grown in the U.S. is the kind you can cook at home and eat at your table. The rest, 99 percent of the US corn crop is known as "field corn" and is used to either feed livestock here and abroad (its primary demand), "feed" ethanol plants, or processed into food ingredients like corn sugar and corn starch. On a worldwide basis, this "field corn" is but one of several crops used to meet these purposes and the portion diverted to the U.S. ethanol industry ends up accounting for only 3 percent of the world's total grain supply.
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You also state that the tariffs and subsidies need to be reduced and/or eliminated. However, studies show these tariffs and subsidies have little effect on food prices. In fact, a study by the Food and Agricultural Policy Research Institute shows that if all federal ethanol production incentives were removed, and markets given a chance to react to the reduced demand for corn to make ethanol, consumer food expenditures would drop only 0.3 percent. On a $400 monthly grocery bill, that's a savings of $1.20. On the other hand, you correctly point out that eliminating ethanol would drive up gasoline prices by as much as $1.40 per gallon. Where, therefore, is the benefit?

Finally, you argue that "we need to wean our nation from its overdependence on corn-brewed fuel." It would seem to make more sense that we wean ourselves from overdependence on oil from unstable and unfriendly countries.

-- Mike Doherty, Senior Economist, Illinois Farm Bureau
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billy_56081 · « **Reply #22 on:** March 05, 2011, 03:48:20 AM »

Wow now it has been explained to my by the unbiased Illinois farm bureau. Next lets look at personal experience with the loss of milage burning ethanol. I have personally kept track of milage on my company and personal vehicles. Each and every time burning ethanol resulted in a 5 to 9% loss in milage. Now with corn at over 6 dollars a bushel, the price of ethanol is going through the roof.

powderman · « **Reply #23 on:** March 05, 2011, 04:26:38 AM »

When visiting family in ILL I buy just enough gas there to get me out of the state. POWDERMAN.

Empty Quiver · « **Reply #24 on:** March 05, 2011, 06:45:21 AM »

Guzzi the latter part of that quote is a bit out of context or possibly disingenuous. Saying fuel prices would rise by $1.40 were ethanol removed is an impossibility. I believe that if the "incentives were removed AND ethanol were still required by law you might indeed see a price rise of that magnitude.

Do a bit of math and you will be able to figure out that a 10% blend of ethanol could not effect gasoline prices by that much. The ethanol would have to come with a dollar bill stapled to it. Oh, I suppose that does explain the price of ethanol doesn't it? That dollar bill is taken out of my pocket at payroll deduction time split in half and given back to me at the pump. The other half is given to farmers and distillers.

Around here it was promoted that E 85 needs to stay about $0.40 less than the price of gas for "profitability". Guess what, no matter what the gas costs it does in fact stay about $0.40 under the cost of unleaded. This inspite of the fact is is only 15% gasoline. You are being played by the ethanol industry, just as surely as you are played by the oil industry

BBF · « **Reply #25 on:** March 05, 2011, 07:55:27 AM »

Quote from: billy_56081 on March 05, 2011, 03:48:20 AM

...........................Each and every time burning ethanol resulted in a 5 to 9% loss in milage.

I came to the same results. Whatever the offset on fuel price might be for using ethanol is lost in increased fuel consumption.

billy_56081 · « **Reply #26 on:** March 05, 2011, 08:04:07 AM »

Quote from: scatterbrain on March 05, 2011, 07:55:27 AM

Quote from: billy_56081 on March 05, 2011, 03:48:20 AM
...........................Each and every time burning ethanol resulted in a 5 to 9% loss in milage.

I came to the same results. Whatever the offset on fuel price might be for using ethanol is lost in increased fuel consumption.

With the loss in milage, it ends up with the same amount of gasoline being used to travel the same distance. Now if you factor in the huge amount of energy involved to produce the ethanol you see it is a huge net loss in energy available to the consumer. What is really a neat fact about ethanol is that the greenies are pushing it as clean energy. These are the same greenies who are worried about global warming and CO2 emissions. Along with most ethanol plants you will see a CO2 plant next to it. Ethanol production spews out a HUGE amount of CO2.

mechanic · « **Reply #27 on:** March 05, 2011, 08:19:58 AM »

Every source I have ever read, states that it is a net loss with ethanol. It takes more energy to make, than you get out of it.

It's not a new concept. My grandpa used to supplement gas with "shine". Especially if a batch didn't come out right.

Ethanol does result in lower mileage...that's proven.

Even Al Gore and Bill Clinton, two advocates of ethanol, now say it's a waste.

We keep flogging dead horses with regard to energy. We're building electric cars, but we haven't gotten past the battery problem. I've worked on electric vehicles 42 years. The concept is very old. Henry Ford used electric vehicles in his Model A assembly plants. Battery technology has not broken the barrier....therefore electric vehicles for road use are ......useless.

We can easily extract hydrogen and reasonably inexpensively.....from natural gas. But...what's the point? Natural gas is a good fuel as it is, but it is a fossil fuel.

These things among others must be overcome and become relatively inexpensively for these things to replace oil......they are a long way off.

Ben

Pat/Rick · « **Reply #28 on:** March 05, 2011, 08:28:05 AM »

Brazil has been the leader in this using sugar cane. If the sugar extraction is what makes the concept go, why aren't sugar beets at the forefront of ethanol production? Seems there would be a higher yield per acre. I'm no ag specialist but it sure seems it would be easier to raise root crops.

BBF · « **Reply #29 on:** March 05, 2011, 08:34:56 AM »

If I had my druthers I'd go with Diesel. Just about any place in the world it is cheaper then gasoline. Why it is 30- 40 cents more then gasoline here is a puzzle to me.