SSK versus the other barrel makers

[HHI #4694]

In response to some of the nonsense posted earlier today:


Actually Helobill, Winchester and Remington releases new cartridges to the arms making community for public use. SSK's cartridges are proprietary and should be treated as such. That is my opinion anyway.

Bellm may have cleaned up his act, I really don't know. However, in the early to mid eighties, he had various problems completing orders that were paid for. He was generally avoided like a leper by serious handgun hunters. My experience has been the polar opposite with SSK barrels. They are the best money can buy-----period. Certainly nothing made by Bellm, Virgin Valley, Bullberry, etc, is even remotely in the same league.

Of course the angry bitter penny pinchers will have you believe that T/C factory barrels are just as good as SSK barrels. According to Bellm, he never found a T/C factory chamber that was acceptable!

[jamie]

If my factory barrel will shoot .5" groups (pistol) then even if the SSK barrel shot better I would never know because I can't hold any better.
Oh, I'm still savin' for my 25-06jdj but don't tell me my factory barrel isn't any good.

Yep, I'm a penny pincher, I have to be since the military doesn't pay that well.

[JD HHI 6092®]

I just gotta agree with you.  I ordered a barrel from a custom barrel maker that had a sale a few years ago.  It was chambered for the 300/221.  I had several problems like Pachmyer adapter wouldn't fit on it right, flat spring that would hold pressure on the extractor would keep backing out, and it wouldn't shoot like a "custom" barrel should.  I ended up selling it.

 Back in April of this year I broke down and bought a 10" SSK 300 Whisper barrel.  I own 3 SSK barrel, 375 JDJ, 309 JDJ and the Whisper.  All shoot great.

[Ladobe]

Gentlemen,

I see the writing on the wall for where this thread can easily go.  

Yes, I am a known supporter of JD Jones and his products - have a bunch of them.   And, yes, it is also known that I have zero tolerance for Mike Bellm or his supporters.

JD Jones is a sponsor of this site - Mike Bellm is not.

.......... so ............

Before this gets out of hand, let me just remind everyone to keep this discussion civil... and remember the season.  

NO FLAMES - NO NAME CALLING - NO INSULTS - PERIOD.  

I WILL come down HARD on anyone who steps over the line!

Ladobe

[KYODE]

SSK is top of the line, but i ain't paying $400+ for any barrel. i don't care who's name is on it.
same with leupold handgun scopes, again top of the line, but i ain't paying $400 for one of those either.
i can find satisfaction for much less on both accounts. it's still good to have those options open to those that can afford such goodies though. :wink:

[Graybeard]

SSK is top of the line, but i ain't paying $400+ for any barrel. i don't care who's name is on it.

Clearly that sentiment is shared by many. That's the reason so many other barrel makers are out there selling at lower prices. No problem with that. Well as long as the others don't try to pass off their works as JDJs or Whispers. Chamber them similarly if they must, just name them on their own and don't try to copy the proprietary names and the whole world will remain happy.

same with leupold handgun scopes, again top of the line, but i ain't paying $400 for one of those either.

Dunno I totally agree with that. They are good but truly not top of the line and haven't been for awhile. I'll take Bushnell Elites over them generally.

i can find satisfaction for much less on both accounts. it's still good to have those options open to those that can afford such goodies though.

Indeed it is. I for one have been saying for years that if the chambering you want is made by TC it really isn't worth going the custom route for the barrel with the exception of the .223 Rem. which I still think needs to be custom to satisfy my requirements. While a vast improvement on the TC factory barrels the VVCG Custom still wasn't up to my personal standards for a barrel of that caliber for the purposes to which I'd put it. It also wasn't as accurate as the 6 TCU barrels TC made for me in the Custom Shop. If I ever get another it WILL BE an SSK or maybe one by Mike Sirois which I've not yet tried one of Mike's barrels so don't know yet about them.

GB

[KYODE]

excellent response mr GB. :wink:  
it's great to discuss differing opinions in a civil manner.
a lot of these choices we make boil down to personal preference, or available money at the time of the buy. sometimes, no one is right or wrong, just doing what they think is right for them.
i'm hearing several good reports on mike's(OTT) barrels. one of those may be worth a try.
my 13" 6br/w 12" twist, went back to vvcg for replacement. hopefully the new 15"er/ 10" twist will shoot to my satisfaction. they did back it up, and i do appreciate that.
about the only way i could afford a SSK, would be on the used market. i'd like a .338jdj, and actually right now, i can't afford used either :roll:

the good thing is to have a competitive market out there, to keep prices in check, and lot's of TC barrels and calibers to choose from.
sheww! how do average people live without a good handgun

[Johnly]

SSK is top of the line, but i ain't paying $400+ for any barrel. i don't care who's name is on it.
same with leupold handgun scopes, again top of the line, but i ain't paying $400 for one of those either.
i can find satisfaction for much less on both accounts. it's still good to have those options open to those that can afford such goodies though. :wink:

Kyle,

I live just down the road from the Leupold factory, so I find many of my rifles and pistols wearing their glass. There are other manufactures that offer lower prices with good value. One of them happens to be the Simmons AETEC series. They're bright, clear, and have good adjustments, not to mention a price tag that is ~1/3 of a Leupold. But when it comes to one of my match rifles, you'll find a Leupold on it. In some applications there is no room for second best.

I have 26 Contender barrels, not a single SSK in the bunch. I do have a few VVG and Bullberry barrels and a MB 375x444. They all work and shoot better than most off the rack rifles. There is nothing quite like shooting a tighter group with your Contender than the Joe on the bench next to you with his fancy bolt gun. :lol:

Some of my varmint rifles deliver consistent sub-1/2 MOA accuracy from the bench, but seldom can I use that level of performance out in the field where the conditions are generally less than optimum. The same it true for my Contender barrels. If I could hold MOA steady with a Contender in the field, I might want to invest in a SSK barrel that can shoot ½ minute groups. Since I can’t, the ¾-1 MOA accuracy delivered by other barrel makers seems perfectly adequate for the intended application.

[helobill]

Ladobe,
I hear ya' Brother! But if you start bashing all barrel makers except SSK I'm sure they'll take their advertising dollars elsewhere. And I'm only replying because I was "called out"

HHI #4694,
SSK can and has copyrighted the designation JDJ and Whisper and made them proprietary...just like Sony did with Beta. 'Nuf said, we'll refer to them as 6.5X225-40 and such as GB suggested.

Why are VVCG and Bullberry and O.T.T. (a supporter of this site last I checked) and all the others not in the same league as SSK? Does SSK have magic reamers or elf gunsmiths (notice the Christmas connection, pretty seasonal huh )? If there are difinitive differences in their procedures we'd all like to know about it. If that's proprietary, okay let's lay it out like "SSK uses a proprietary elf chambering process not in use anywhere else and has X patents pending on this process." I think SSK barrels are great. Never owned one but shot a few. They're as accurate as any I've shot, but I don't see where they are in a league of their own when chambering for non-proprietary rounds. What is it you think they do that makes them so much better. Not being facetious, since I've never owned one, I'd like to know what it is about them that makes them better. (Better gunsmiths? or attention to details? like what?)  

I'll agree with GB, Labode and 4694 that if you want a true 'JDJ' get it from SSK.

I think folks experience counts for something and we've heard good and bad about every barrel maker out there. I've had excellent luck with my VVCG barrels and they offer an accuracy guarentee ("We Guarantee every barrel we produce and sell to be capable of producing 1" groups (or less depending on chambering) consisting of 5 shots at 100 Yards.") No one else is offering anything better that I've heard of. And I've had good luck with my factory barrels. JDJ must think the T/C custom shop (FoxRidge) is okay too or I doubt he would have authorized them to chamber his 300 Whisper round (and call them Whispers). If he thought they wouldn't be any good he'd be giving his rounds a bad rap by allowing them to be chambered in a barrel that would produce bad accuracy.

Just hate to see all barrel makers bashed because someone likes one guy in particular (especially when it's subjective). Don't care if that one guy is JDJ or W.T. Door or Comet or Cupid or Donder or Blitzen   .

Bill

[Biathlonman]

I'm afraid I was the guy that started the other mess, and for that I do hardily apoligize!  I had not meant to start anything and was simply using the JDJ name so that I didn't have to type out the full 6.5x225 Improved that is printed on my barrel.  Too much work and not enough sleep recently  :roll:

As to the quality of the makers I have had two SSK barrels and now one OTT; 14" 6.5JDJ, 20".375 JDJ, and 21" 6.5x225 Improved.  I still have the carbine barrels but I sold the pistol barrel.

The quality of both products is exceptional, and I don't ever see myself selling either of my carbine barrels.  It just makes me giggle when i think about my little carbine kit that goes under 6 lbs, shoots 1 MOA for the .375 and well under 1/2 MOA for the 6.5!

With SSK you will pay a premium for the name, and if you ever plan to resell this can be very important.  I picked up the pistol barrel VERY cheap and was able to turn almost a 200 dollar profit!!  You could easily buy and sell used barrels without ever losing a dime, and possible while making money.

With OTT I see price and customer service as his positive attributes.  Mike and I traded no less then 15 e-mails (which were answered promptly and fully each and every time) and had 3 conversations on the phone.  His turn around time was WELL beyond what was quoted, but with a one man shop that is to be expected.  He kept me updated on what was going on and I greatly appreciated that.  His price too was close to 300 dollars less then SSK and for me that was also very important.

The quality of both is excellent, take your pick you can't really loose!

[jamie]

Please don't take my earlier post wrong.  I whole heartly agree that no one makes better barrels than SSK, one or two may equal him, but none better.  And while the others may not be as good as JD's, fact is they are still better than most people can shoot.  What else could I gain over my 06 barrel if it was purchased from SSK and not T/C other being able to say I have an SSK barrel?  I would never be able to tell if it shot better.  I plan on purchasing a barrel from them in the future because they are the best and I want a 257 on his 06 cartridge, but until I can afford to drive a Cadillac, I will keep driving my Chevy's.

[Jay HHI6818]

Well, I' am a BIG SSK fan. My first purchase was a 309JDJ about twelve years ago and have since purchased the following Contender Barrels 6.5JDJ,309JDJ,445SM,375JDJ and the following Encore barrels 6.5MD JDJ, and 35-06JDJ. After my first purchase I wanted to same some money and ordered a 221 from another maker. After waiting 4 months I recieved it only to find that the dovetails were machined in the wrong place. I called the company and got no where. Last purchase I made with them.
 Two years ago I bought a used 6BR Encore made by another company off GBO's classifieds only to find out that the hinge pin hole was over sized and the barrel lug was not in the correct location. Their idea to correct it was to machine off the lug and weld another one on.
From now on I'm sticking with SSK and for those of you that want an SSK but don't want to pay top dollar, join JD's HHI and buy one of his "Stub's & Rejects." As a HHI member you can purchacse them. I stopped by JD's last Thursday and check out both the Contender & Encore but didn't see anything I couldn't live without.
For those of you that don't know I'm the dummy that fired a 445SM in my 309JDJ and ruined it. The gun held together but it bent the buttom of the lug down and swelled the chamber. When I took it to JD, he gave me an education as to how the have the barrel lug welded onto the barrel. I turly believe that if it weren't for this process the results would have been disastrous.

[Graybeard]

Ladobe,
I hear ya' Brother! But if you start bashing all barrel makers except SSK I'm sure they'll take their advertising dollars elsewhere.

They already have. They couldn't stand the heat so they got out of the kitchen I reckon. Bellm's money was refunded and he was kicked off the site. VVCG and E. A. Brown left of their own accord with varying degrees of friendliness at time of departure. Their reasons for leaving are their own and I'll not try to speak for them in that regard.

Mike Sirois is a new barrel maker but an old time advertiser on this site. I've seen photos of his barrels but haven't seen one of his barrels. He is using a rather innovative chambering method that doesn't involve reamers. I don't fully understand just what he is doing but have a general understanding I think. Mike doesn't advertise his barrels here as such but his company instead. We've discussed him adding advertisement for the barrels but as far as I know he has reached no decision, at least not a decision to begin such an ad.

GB

[Questor]

I've got and SSK barrel. Related to this purchase, I had a set of unfortunate and unsatisfactory customer experiences with them and will not buy from them again. Frankly, I don't know how they stay in business.  Functionally, the barrel does work as expected.  Total cost, including shipping, reshipping, dies, parts for dies, replacement dies, and scope mount was about $500. It wasn't worth the money.

[475/480]

I have bought (2) Gary Reeder barrels 475 GNR 14"pistol 21" rifle,45-70 blown out to 475 ,SSK does the same thing
 Gary's encore work has always been very good,
          Sean

[Gregory]

I bought a used SSK 300 Whisper for about $280 including dies and used brass and I'm very happy with it.
I've ordered one barrel from another custom maker and had it custom chambered by someone else to his proprietary round, I don't own it anymore.  Wasn't satisfied with the accuracy.  Between the barrel, dies and brass for this round I'd spent close to $500.

[Pie-bald]

I've dealt with warranty problems with firearms scopes etc. more than I cared too! The worst was Leupold!!!!  (they told me is was human error for bad groups!! Gun was A-bolt 300 win mag ,groups went from 3/4 @ 100 to 5" @100) After 3rd time back and a bunch of hollering it finally was done right. Who was my best experience SSK!!!!   Exactly 1 week before Ohio season came in several years ago the TSOB on my 45/70 SSK barrel came loose. I called Monday morning and was told to ship immediately(It was at the time my only straight walled cartridge barrel I had) . They recieved it tuesday morning, fixed it with a totally new TSOB with bigger screws and I had it back in my hands WEDNESDAY morning!!!! (TRY THAT WITH ANYONE ELSE)At no cost to me!!!!! Everything about dealing with them was 1st class!! Stopped in and dropped  off a barrel at JD's and my wife and me had a nice chat with JD himself. Like everything in life the best cost a little more . I think good service ,and done when said it will be, is worth the price. Remember "Oats thru the horse are cheaper than thru the combine"

[The Duke]

My 2 cents.  I had a factory 22 hornet barrel that didn't shoot worth a hoot.  Sent it to Mike Bellm....$75 later I have a 223 Ackley Improved barrel that shoots a heck of lot better than I can.  Plus I got a good education on how to properly size brass for the Contender so that my
30-30 factory barrel performs as it should.

[Ladobe]

Ladobe,
I hear ya' Brother! But if you start bashing all barrel makers except SSK I'm sure they'll take their advertising dollars elsewhere. And I'm only replying because I was "called out"

Since you directed this to me Bill, I will respond to it pard, but I won't debate it.  

First of all, I never bashed anybodies products in my post above.   All I did was try to advert yet another war that has been typical on this forum when strong supporters of one builder clashes with the strong supporters of other builders.   I made no comment that one's products was better than anothers.   Yes, I have my own opinions on the quality of all of the barrels made for the Contenders and Encores - both factory and custom alike (been shooting Contenders 34 years - you do learn), and the men themselves, their ethics and business sense.   My opions are founded on very long personal association with these men (or my choice not to associate with them), some like 20-25 years now, and have a varying degree of inside knowledge of most of their operation's as well.   My purchases are based on that knowledge, and the only barrels that reside in my safe come from 3 custom makers.   I do have a bunch of SSK's, but another maker's barrels out number those 4 to 1.   That's what works for me, and as long as they do, I'll not call one better than the other.   I'll also not post the reasons for my opinions - impossible to do without listing all the bad points against those that I choose to never do business with.  

Opinions vary about everything in life, and that's as it should be.   Stating them on an open forum is fine as long as they are so done in a civil manner AND others respect your right to them and also be civil if they choose to respond to them.   Dang, we're all bothers of a sort FCOL.  

For the record, I didn't call you out if you were referring to me.   Only two names appear in my post, and neither of them was yours.    I singled them out for several reasons...  Mainly because they were the names in use that started this thread in the first place, but also because one of them is a strong financial supporter of this site, and with that comes a certain degree of required respect on this forum whether you support his products or not.    Yes, I did advise my personal take on both of them - but again only to be clear that "bashing" (to use your word) would not be tolerated - by either side.    Track records going back many, many years on several boards and e-lists was the nudge that made me include my comments as such.  Not just my opinion - fact!   TC users as a group are pretty thin skinned.    I'm one of them, and yes, I have my faults.

Bottom line, the forum has been running very smoothe and I think has been a real pleasure for most of the users lately - a real nice break from what it was only a sort time ago.   Its my intent to keep it that way.   We have "house" rules as guests in GB's home, and they will be followed here.   If that means some singed feelings?

Sorry so long, and please don't take any of this personal Bill - just used your post to clear what I said and why I said it.

Have a great Christmas friends, and enjoy the forum.

Larry

[444encore]

Amen Larry,
  Now that's diplomacy.

[Bullseye]

Thought my situation made me unlucky, but I guess I am lucky after all!!  I do not have enough money to buy anything but a factory barrel so I am saved all this grief!  $500 for a barrel and dies, I could take my pick on what complete gun to buy for that kind of money.

[helobill]

Ladobe,
Wasn't refering to you, just advising you (as the moderator and after you posted your warning) that the only reason I responded was 'cause someone else made ref to something I said and I wanted to clear it up. I don't take much of anything personal, especially on the computer. Stuff can sound WAY worse than you meant it because you can't influence how the person reading it will interpret it. So I try to take everything from the positive side. I just wanted someone to say why they thought SSK's barrels were better than others in tangible terms. I hear lots of brand loyalty (which isn't bad) but no specifics. I LIKE Ford Pickups and own one, doesn't mean they're better than Chevy's just because I like them, now if we compare HP, Torque, payload, etc.... I just wanted to know if there were any of those specifics with the SSKs. Now the OTT "no reamer" process GB talked about sounds interesting, I gotta find out about that.
Bill

[Hopalong7]

I LOVE THIS PLACE.....Why???because we CAN dissagree civally and learn from each others opions.  At this point I will take the liberty to speak for us all and say:
          1-THANKS to Bill and his staff for providing the place and means.
          2-THANKS to Ladobe and all the other Moderators for thier countless hours keeping us civil and sorted out.
          3-THANKS to all for the thousands of posts that keep us coming back.
          4-MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL and may Santa bring you the barrel t
hat you REALLY want.

                   GOOD SHOOTIN' TO YOU ALL,  Walt  

[OLDMAN]

I have one SSk barrel in 38SPL.  It is just an excellent barrel in every respect.  But I will buy a barrel from Fox Ridge and not worry one bit about it's accuracy.  About 99 % of my shooting is off hand.  Yep I use sand bags on the hood of my pick-up to sight my barrels in but 1 MOA is not really that important to me, again I shoot 99% off hand.  I do understand the pleasure of those of you folks in getting your 1 MOA and even 1/2 MOA with your barrels but 1 MOA is just not a big deal with me.  I like to hunt and I plink a lot to improve my off hand shooting.  I am as happy as a pig in mud

[Bullseye]

Oldman

I think me and you have the same accuracy standard, minute of deer, minute of coyote etc etc.

[OLDMAN]

You bet Bullseye,
Thats the good thing about TC's.  There is something for everybody.  Even you and me.