Author Topic: cast bullets in 35 cal (Read 1443 times)

gunther66 · « **on:** March 07, 2011, 03:47:06 PM »

Anyone here getting good groups with their 35 cal Handi's with cast bullets? I shoot handis in 357, 357 max,35 rem & 35 Whelen, and soon to be 356 win. All these do decently with jacketed bullets but leave something to be desired with cast. I'm thinking the shallow rifleing is mainly the culprit. Someone want to share their successes in getting cast bullets to make tight groups? G66

Slowhanddd · « **Reply #1 on:** March 07, 2011, 04:10:52 PM »

I couldn't get my 357 maxi to shoot lead(358 sized) at all.Shoots the remmy 180 JHP's great.Also the 158 JFP.Lead terrible.Gave up and traded the lead for some jacketed.The brown tape is the lead loads.

OldBob · « **Reply #2 on:** March 08, 2011, 12:40:34 AM »

I suspect your lead bullets were undersize, slug your barrel and try some at .015 to .002 over bore diameter, gas checked........ that should improve things a lot. Great groups with the 180's though !

bikerbeans · « **Reply #3 on:** March 08, 2011, 01:44:08 AM »

gunther,

I am working on a load with 200 grain RNGC, .358 from an RCBS mould. Will let you know if it works out. Load workup is for the 357 Max.

BB

gunther66 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 08, 2011, 02:50:37 AM »

BB
I also load the rcbs35-200 RFGC. It does an excellent job in a Marlin 336 but it's all over the target in the Handi's. Maybe I need to try unsized.Don't know how to seat the GC without sizing? G66

OldBob · « **Reply #5 on:** March 08, 2011, 03:09:54 AM »

gunther66, Lyman makes an adapter to go on your sizer for gas check seating only, in essence it is just a spacer that limits travel of the linkage and allows just the bullet base into the die. You can make something that will do the job by using a short piece of tube split lengthwise and held on with a hose clamp.

gunther66 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 08, 2011, 03:51:14 AM »

Thanks for the input. Will the lyman seater fit an rcbs sizer?

Goatwhiskers · « **Reply #7 on:** March 08, 2011, 04:42:39 AM »

I'm really interested in any input on this thread as I too am having a problem with my 357Max with cast bullets. I ordered some cast 185gr GC to try in my gun which has a 358 bore. Ordered .359 size per the maker, well a lot of them were .360, no problem I'll try them anyway but found anything over .359 swells the case just enough to cause trouble chambering and extracting a loaded round. I have a tight chamber. Got a Lee .358 sizer and they come out at .3585 so tried them and groups opened up to 2-3" at 50 yds. Only thing I can think of is to try different charges and powders. If that doesn't work, guess I'll have to lap out the sizer to get .359 and try that. Anybody got any good ideas I'd like to hear them 'cause I got a lot to learn about shooting cast. Goatwhiskers

quickdtoo · « **Reply #8 on:** March 08, 2011, 06:08:47 AM »

Quote from: Goatwhiskers on March 08, 2011, 04:42:39 AM

Anybody got any good ideas I'd like to hear them 'cause I got a lot to learn about shooting cast. Goatwhiskers

Try different brass, use a crimp die and see if they will chamber, that works on my 38-55s with bullets big enough to shoot accurately, some brass is thinner, the crimp makes the difference between chambering and not because the pinch point is right at the end of the brass, easy solutions if they work.

Tim

revbc · « **Reply #9 on:** March 08, 2011, 06:38:51 AM »

Bought a Ranch Dog 190gr gas checked tumble lube mold. Even though my casting is a longggg way from what I want it, the bullets shot pretty good at 50yds. They are run through a lee sizer .359 from Ranch Dog (couldn't find it at midway, midsouth, etc). Loaded them by lot weight and had one load, ( I think 20.5 gr. Lil gun) put two touching at 50. Shoots pretty easily into 1.5 groups even with other powder loads.

kbstenberg · « **Reply #10 on:** March 08, 2011, 12:29:45 PM »

Just my 2 cents.
If you are using the bullets that you use for other standard grooved guns. You mite want to go to a harder bullet. The reason being with the shallower riffling your bullets mite be skipping over the shallower grooves.
In most cases a harder bullet causes more problems. But maybe it will help in this one.
OldBob also has the correct idea. Unless you have already sluged your barrels, each of them could be different.

OldBob · « **Reply #11 on:** March 08, 2011, 01:17:14 PM »

Quote from: gunther66 on March 08, 2011, 03:51:14 AM

Thanks for the input. Will the lyman seater fit an rcbs sizer?

I am not sure, but I think it might. I don't have the Lyman one, I just made my own as described. As someone else mentioned, Ranch Dog has the Lee .359 sizer and a darn good mould ( 359-190) design made for Marlins, but I found it to work nicely in my Handi...... slugging your barrel is a necessary first step, unless you go there all else is a shot in the dark.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #12 on:** March 08, 2011, 02:08:33 PM »

This is why I have come to using a bullet that fits the fully fire-formed case mouth right off; its as large a dia. as the (critical) throat handles, and if it doesnt fit there it doesnt much matter, it is likely to gas cut. Though a GC will help there the bullet still really needs to be the right size for the throat.
Ive had bullets that were groove dia. or more that still failed until I started using the above methodology. And it is not just mine; such notables as C.E. Harris and The Cast Bullet Assoc. use it successfully too.

Goatwhiskers · « **Reply #13 on:** March 10, 2011, 03:59:26 AM »

Tim, the lite crimp trick works just fine. Now I got to work on a little problem of horizontal movement of POI. Probably a forend prob. Goatwhiskers

gunther66 · « **Reply #14 on:** March 17, 2011, 01:47:31 PM »

Just a quick update. Received the 356 winchester barrel back from Wayne York last week.Had to wait on a scope base before I could sight it in (Thanks Tim for the info on Ironsighter rail).This is a 357 max rechambered to 356 winchester. Put twenty rounds thru it today. RCBS 35-200RNFPGC over a light load of H322 which gave a 5 shot group of about 1" at 50 yds.Next 10 were Hornady 200 gr RN which gave a tight cloverleaf at the same distance using the same powder charge.Hope to tighten things up more by tweaking the rifle and ammo.It was a good day. G66

Antietamgw · « **Reply #15 on:** March 17, 2011, 03:49:47 PM »

I've used Lee 158RNFP as cast (.3595) and a Group Buy 180 RNFP as cast at .360, both wheel weights, air-cooled. Both shot about 1" at 50 yds using AA#5 to +P level in FL sized, unsorted 38 Spl. cases. This is a standard plinking load we use in my Rossi lever gun and .357 Mag sidearms for fun, cans,etc. Not bad for an untweaked load. It's exceptional in nothing but acceptable for bouncing cans around in every .357 Mag I've got. It will also take deer if necessary and used right. 3gr Bullseye with the 158 RNFP in unsized cases and a slight taper crimp shot better with a noticable lack of flyers and was very quiet.

quickdtoo · « **Reply #16 on:** March 17, 2011, 04:12:41 PM »

Congrats on the new barrel G66!

Tim

keith44 · « **Reply #17 on:** March 17, 2011, 05:41:39 PM »

I'm guessing this is confined to the .35's, cause my .44 shoots really well with Oregon trail laser cast sized at .431 (.0014" oversized) It's a really hard alloy and holds up to max loads really well. This red target is a stick on type, aprox 3" in dia. The rest are just to show a fun target, and a shot of my Handi

gcrank1 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 18, 2011, 06:56:25 AM »

One of my favorite targets!
If you can find any worn out 'bush-hog' disc blades they dont preforate and ring like a bell even at 300yd.

Matt3357 · « **Reply #19 on:** March 18, 2011, 07:28:12 AM »

Wow am I glad I found this thread. I have been having all the same problems shooting cast in my shorty max. It drives tacks with jacketed, but no matter what cast bullets I tried, it shot a "pattern". I'll be looking into this further. Thanks again.

Matt

gcrank1 · « **Reply #20 on:** March 18, 2011, 08:33:32 AM »

Have you checked out any of the 'cast bullet' forums,; or The Cast Bullet Assoc. (they shoot cast successfully in all types of actions and rifling).
Every time Ive had a rifle shoot patterns it has shot groups once I used a bullet that fits the fully fire-formed case mouth/throat, even with relatively soft W-Wt alloy, air cooled, no gas checks if the velo has been somewhere between 1000-1250fps (sometimes up to 1450ish).

Matt3357 · « **Reply #21 on:** March 18, 2011, 06:38:46 PM »

Yeah, that I my next step gcrank1. Once I get some time to shoot it again, I'll clean it, slug the bore for verification and check the brass after firing. I never got much leading to speak of even with the bad groups. More info is needed.

Matt

keith44 · « **Reply #22 on:** March 18, 2011, 07:06:28 PM »

My load for the .44 Mag is 18.8 gr of 2400 with standard large pistol primer, Rem brass, and the cast bullet mentioned above. Nothing special at all, it just works.

A couple of the tricks for cast bullets from the bench are 1) partial or neck size only!! this will help give a better alignment of the bullet with the bore. 2) chamfer the "mouth" of the case alot!! this with minimal belling of the case gives good neck tension, and helps guide the bullet into the case more consistantly (see a pattern yet?) 3) to get an even chamfer to guide the bullet into the case straighter (pattern hint) trim yer cases at least once.