Collective Bargaining is done in Wisconsin!!!

[Cabin4]

I love tax breaks for corporations, business and tax payers. It keeps the money in the hands of those who actually make it. What a novel idea! Other countries do it and those are the ones stealing our jobs. Somehow all you high tax lovers fail to recognize that the more you tax those that make money, the more money comes out of there pockets to invest in the business which creates REAL JOBS.

Its not the governments money.

[DakotaElkSlayer]

I love tax breaks for corporations, business and tax payers. It keeps the money in the hands of those who actually make it. What a novel idea! Other countries do it and those are the ones stealing our jobs. Somehow all you high tax lovers fail to recognize that the more you tax those that make money, the more money comes out of there pockets to invest in the business which creates REAL JOBS.

Its not the governments money.

Really?  So corporations should be treated as citizens by our government, but not pay the taxes that real citizens pay?!  As you probably know, our economy is a consumer economy.  It is the middle class consumers that buy the products that drive our economy and creates jobs due to increase demand of products.  How is that big tax break for the rich that Bush pushed through helping create jobs?!  Seems to me that the unemployment rate is rather high right now.  Do yourself a favor and take a look at corporate tax rates by year and the number of jobs lost to overseas markets.  You will be amazed at how taxes on corporations has been constantly getting smaller, yet jobs are leaving quicker and quicker.  Take a look at the economy of the 1950's....corporate tax rate, rich folk tax rates, and percentage of union employees.  That data should open your eyes enough to come up with a new hypothesis.

Jim

[carbineman]

I love tax breaks for corporations, business and tax payers. It keeps the money in the hands of those who actually make it. What a novel idea! Other countries do it and those are the ones stealing our jobs. Somehow all you high tax lovers fail to recognize that the more you tax those that make money, the more money comes out of there pockets to invest in the business which creates REAL JOBS.

Its not the governments money.

.
You're confused and not paying attention again..  Most of the Wisconsin corps didn't pay any tax...!! So they got nothing to whine about.

I think any corp that whines alot about taxes, unions, labor, or whatever whine they have...should just pack their bags and take all their stuff and employees and leave the country and not come back.....if its so great elsewhere; and not be permitted to even attempt to sell their junk here in the Nation of the Mighty. Just leave and good-bye....and make room for others.



..TM7
.

So if they don't leave maybe the compassionate unionized workers and their bossmen can threaten them into complying.

Story Published: Mar 10, 2011

 That's a nice business you got there. Pity if anything were to happen to it if, say, you didn't toe the line and denounce Governor Walker like we're asking nice-like.


March 10, 2011
Mr. Tom Ellis, President
Marshall & Ilsley Corporation
770 N. Water Street
Milwaukee, WI 53202
SENT VIA FASCIMILE AND REGULAR MAIL
Dear Mr. Ellis:
As you undoubtedly know, Governor Walker recently proposed a “budget
adjustment bill” to eviscerate public employees’ right to collectively bargain in
Wisconsin. ..
 
As you also know, Scott Walker did not campaign on this issue when he ran for
office. If he had, we are confident that you would not be listed among his largest
contributors. As such, we are contacting you now to request your support.
 
The undersigned groups would like your company to publicly oppose Governor
Walker’s efforts to virtually eliminate collective bargaining for public employees in
Wisconsin. While we appreciate that you may need some time to consider this
request, we ask for your response by March 17. In the event that you do not
respond to this request by that date, we will assume that you stand with
Governor Walker and against the teachers, nurses, police officers, fire fighters,
and other dedicated public employees who serve our communities.


In the event that you cannot support this effort to save collective bargaining,
please be advised that the undersigned will publicly and formally boycott the
goods and services provided by your company. However, if you join us, we will
do everything in our power to publicly celebrate your partnership in the fight to
preserve the right of public employees to be heard at the bargaining table.
Wisconsin’s public employee unions serve to protect AS LONG AS YOU DO AS WE SAYand promote equality and
fairnessIMAGINE THAT in the workplace. We hope you will stand with us and publicly share that
ideal.
 
In the event you would like to discuss this matter further, please contact the
executive Director of the Wisconsin Professional Police Association, Jim Palmer,
at 608.273.3840.
 
Thank you in advance for your consideration. We look forward to hearing from
you soon.
 
James L. Palmer, Executive Director
Wisconsin Professional Police Association
Mahlon Mitchell,President
Professional Professional Fire Fighters
Jim Conway, President
International Association of Fire Fighters Local 311
John Matthews, Execuctive Director
Madison Teachers, Inc.
Keith Patt, Executive Director
Green Bay Education Association
Bob Richardson,  President
Dane County Deputy Sheriffs Association
Dan Frei, Prersident
Madison Professional Police Officers Association

Soon when you dial 911 you will have to pledge alliegance to the union to get an officer of the law to respond. Looks like conservatives Walker supporters will have to forge there own police force. Sort of a His and Hers

[Cabin4]

I love tax breaks for corporations, business and tax payers. It keeps the money in the hands of those who actually make it. What a novel idea! Other countries do it and those are the ones stealing our jobs. Somehow all you high tax lovers fail to recognize that the more you tax those that make money, the more money comes out of there pockets to invest in the business which creates REAL JOBS.

Its not the governments money.

.
You're confused and not paying attention again..  Most of the Wisconsin corps didn't pay any tax...!! So they got nothing to whine about.

I think any corp that whines alot about taxes, unions, labor, or whatever whine they have...should just pack their bags and take all their stuff and employees and leave the country and not come back.....if its so great elsewhere; and not be permitted to even attempt to sell their junk here in the Nation of the Mighty. Just leave and good-bye....and make room for others.



..TM7
.

Yes I am listening, are you?
First you say these businesses are not paying any tax, then you say Walker just gave them a tax break. If they are not paying taxes as you claim, then how could they get a tax break. If you pay zero you can't pay less! So what is it?

Wisconsion does not have a taxing problem, it has a spending problem. Focus your energy on reducing spending and we can all stop having these budget discussions.

[Mohawk]

Not taking a side, but a right to work state has many, many, many advantages to lure businesses to their location. I am not in our "Voluteer Union" and that is fine. We tend to ignore them. They tend to want a whole lotta something for nothing. A Joke. They are not even allowed inside our building!

[Buckskin]

Wow, a 2006 document that says many business didn't pay taxes. Not 75%, not most, many.. Many could be 4...

And it was before Diamond Jim Doyle puked his taxing insanity across the state.

You liberals should realize that these business don't just put their earnings in a shoe.  They create jobs and expand.  You know, what created this country.  Not liberal jealousy and whining.

[billy_56081]

Public employees pay no added taxes into the economy of the state.

[Hooker]

So, we are JUST cutting down freedom?

Jim

What freedom ? Oh you mean the freedom to rob the tax payers any time the unions and the state workers want to.
I always tell government employees "If you don't like your job get a real job"
I'm not union and I negotiate my wages,time and benefits just fine by myself , but then I have something of value to bargain with. 90% of government workers would be living under a bridge holding a card board sign and picking up beer cans if not for unions.

Pat
 

[DakotaElkSlayer]

Not taking a side, but a right to work state has many, many, many advantages to lure businesses to their location.

What's the average wage in a "right to work" state when compared to other states? 

Jim

[Mohawk]

  Don't know, that's what the Governor's say in those states and I don't see mobs of protesters marching on their capitol lawns.  I am a public servant and make it a point to use taxpayer dollars responsibly. I pay into my insurance and pay into my pension just like the private sector, which I have also been employed with years ago. I will not get a raise or promotion until further notice and I still do my job and go to work everyday which the taxpayers are paying me to do. If I took a furlough or a 50 % pay cut that is fine. I will still do my job, because that is what public servants should do. Regarding income? I will make it work. Again, that is what public servants should do.

[Buckskin]

What I think is actually turning the tide is how these animals are acting in the capital.  I honestly don't know anyone who is in favor of tearing up the capital, leaving the state instead of voting, threatening lives.  Just an embarrassment, the whole bunch of them...

[magooch]

Hasn't Wisconsin been a bastion of liberal politics over the resent past?  If so, then how did the tax load get shifted to individuals versus business? 

In truth, business always passes the cost of taxes off to their customers, or they don't stay in business for long.  Business should only be taxed in relation to what it uses in local, county and state services--no more and no less so than individuals.

The real crime that has been foisted on property owners is being taxed by the value of ones property, rather than strictly on services available to the property owner.  The owner of a castle doesn't necessarily get any better fire protection, police, schools, etc., etc. than the owner of a shack.

[billy_56081]

Magooch, obviously you and I understand what the libtards are to stupid to understand. The taxes buisinesses pay are passed on to the consumer. DUHHHH!!!

[Cabin4]

Wow, a 2006 document that says many business didn't pay taxes. Not 75%, not most, many.. Many could be 4...

And it was before Diamond Jim Doyle puked his taxing insanity across the state.

You liberals should realize that these business don't just put their earnings in a shoe.  They create jobs and expand.  You know, what created this country.  Not liberal jealousy and whining.

.

Wisconsin is not the only state blindfolded..others are too. Essentially, taxes have been 'shifted' to homeowners and wage earners in Wisconsin. Corps view Wisconsin's tax laws and loopholes as pretty darn good...just ask Scotts, Kohler, NW Insurance, MacDonald's, 100's of others, etc., etc. Of course, the bigger the tax advantages the more they whine...!

Wisconsin Corps are taxed a flat rate of 7.9% on corp income in Wisconsin...not too bad. Property taxes are totally regressive, or exempted as are equipment/machinery, and the average homeowner pays the bulk of property tax revenues. Sales tax is 5% I believe, low by many states, but services and transactions are exempted from sales tax in Wisconsin....So Okay not unusual so far. But than there's the State give away credits and subsidies back to corps as grants, exemptions, and assistence.

The growth of these business-tax exemptions is clear from looking at long-term trends. Thirty years ago, residential property accounted for half of all state property taxes. Today, homeowners now pay 70% of all property taxes, as the business contributions have dropped.

Twenty years ago, 10% of the state's tax revenue came from the corporate income tax. Today's share is barely half that < 5%,...that amounts to  a tax shift to you..the average citizen worker and homeowner!   No wonder you complain about taxes going up....

The picture is even starker when it comes to the income tax. The state Department of Revenue reports that most Wisconsin businesses pay zero corporate income tax. For example, of the 4,275 companies that filed returns in 2003 showing annual receipts of more than $100 million, 62% paid absolutely no corporate income tax.  About 75% currently pay no tax...pretty good, pretty good..!!

Obtaining company-specific tax information is cumbersome, expensive and time-consuming. Among other things, the state requires requesters to provide the corporation's name and mailing address exactly as they appear on the corporation's tax return, which is itself a confidential document.

But a 14-month process of requesting data on hundreds of companies doing business in Wisconsin yielded surprising results. Among the companies that in 2003 paid no income tax are some big names: McDonald's, Merck, Microsoft, PepsiCo, Kimberly-Clark, Johnson Controls (the largest Wisconsin-based firm), Kohl's and Snap-on Tools.

The S.C. Johnson family of companies is especially noteworthy. Emerging from the Johnson Wax company, based in Racine, are a handful of large firms, including Johnson Financial Group, Johnson Bank, Johnson Outdoors, JohnsonDiversey, along with the original S.C. Johnson & Son. From 2000 through 2004, not a single one of these firms paid a cent in Wisconsin corporate income


How Wisconsin corporations avoid taxes by shifting taxes to workers and home owners and shifting incomes out of state:

http://www.wisconsinsfuture.org/publications_pdfs/protect_services/broken_partnership.pdf

and how Walker is perpetuating this dis-service to the average Wisconsinite at the behest of the House of Koch. But get this...the biggest complaint of corps in Wisconsin is SECURING AN EDUCATED WORKFORCE...so I see Walker is taking care of that by attacking unions, teachers, and raisng tutitions...just perfect...

You just got to admire how these elitist get avergae working stiffs to be on their side...under the heading of 'conservatism'...of course...



BOL.....TM7
.

TM,
Let’s be honest here and stop confusing percentages and numbers and tax source. Yes, WI has a 7.9% corp tax rate. So what, it’s similar now to surrounding MW states that are still competitive and have lower unemployment rates. Example, Nebraska. Yes, the tax source for WI from a percentage standpoint has shifted to the property owner and income earner. But the reality is that’s because the corporation & business have moved out so obviously, the percentage of revenue the state will collect in this area will drop. It’s just simple math. If there are fewer taxpaying businesses, the amount will drop and therefore the percentage of contribution in the total tax collection does as well. Also, this does not include what these business and corporations pay in federal tax. A business will look to many aspects before they make a decision on what location to run their business. It’s a total costs of ownership analysis. Unless that is your just accusing all business of trying to torpedo growth!

You cannot build a job base by taxing the hell out of the job creators. They have choices too. They can go to another state or they can go to another country. Many are going to another country and we have the combination of our state, local and federal tax code to thank for it. I know, I’ve been in a business sector for 30 years now that has seen nearly all its manufacturing jobs off-shored. I have personally been responsible and am responsible now for making these decisions and I know what goes into this total cost of ownership analysis.

And while the business and jobs have left Wisconsin and the tax base has declined, the cry from all the state union supporters has been: GIVE US MORE MONEY AND MORE JOBS AND THE HELL WITH THE TAX PAYERS AND THE DEFICIT.

[Cabin4]

TM,
You obviously have NO business experiance. The state collects tax and it pays out exspences. It needs to run this aspect of its budget process like a business. If they don;t, we are then faced with the situatiuon we have today and exactly why we are having this debate. If the state would manage its finances at the time when its needed, perhaps these sistuation and the negative effects can be avoided or at least minimized. No government can collect tax from an unprofitable business environment.

I'm not justifying off-shoring of jobs. I am justifying that a real business that MUST operate with a P&L in the black, not id the red. It cannot operate in teh red like the governments can. If the solution they need is relacation to a more freindly state, then so be it. If the country has developed a tax & business regulation environment that forces business to off-shore jobs, then so be it. Again, they are competing with products made in more competitive markets over seas. So what do they do? Shut the doors and get rid of all jobs? No, then off shore that which they can to reduce thier costs so they can continue to operate and emplyee what they can here.

You fail to see the that this is all business. Its not a charity event. Even charity relies on someone at some point to make a profit to they can contribute to the charity.

Keep fantisizing all you want that their are people and business in this world that are going to operate at a loss so some state union worker can rape the system.

[billy_56081]

Lets get back to what we are here for. We are not talking about taxes paid by corporations or individuals. What we are talking about is a group of folks in America who are parasitic upon the taxpayers. These parasitic folks who add nothing to the taxes of the state of Wisconsin, are being stopped from buying influence in elections. These folks, who add nothing to the taxes of the state, are spending huge sums of money to elect politicians who will then in turn bargain with them when they want more money. What we are fighting against is this you scratch my back I'll scratch yours game. There is no one there bargain in favor of the taxpayer, they are only left to pay the bill.

[Cabin4]

What's wrong with you Billy? Don't understand that the state union workers came first and then private business came later? The private sector exisits because of the union, not the other way around! The real parasites are the private business. They make a product that has value, they sell it make a profit and pay tax. A private sector worker, helps that business make that product, they get paid a salary and pay income tax on that salary. They support thier families and buy other products to continue the business cycle. These are the real blood suckers of society! TM is right, if we could just continue to deteriorate the governments budget, increase the deficit, raise tax on tax payers and business, we can crush them out of existance the problem will finally be solved. The math of P&L are rediculous. Its all a farse, and the states budget issues are a farse as well.

I agree, lets get back to subject.

[billy_56081]

Maybe I need to simplify this for our liberal friends. To put it simply, public employees are a want, when your household is having financial short falls you start getting rid of things you don't need. These zero tax gain folks are the cable TV, cell phones, and internet of our economy. There is a financial shortfall in this land, and we are makingsure we have enough for the heat, power and food we NEED to survive.

[Cabin4]

According to some, we in the private sector are here to support the over paid state union worker. WORK! you dumb stupid private sector worker, I want more of your money!

[streak]

Glad that Wisconsin govenor stuck to his guns on this one!
Supposedly state workers here in Colorado do not have a collective bargaining option. But the frigging liberal state government still takes taxes from the private sector and foots medical, education, room and board, etc. for these illegal immigrants! This state is operating in the red!
And it may be sometime before we can get a good strong governor to come in and sort out this mess! The liberal bastion of Colorado is located in the Denver region and there are illegals out the gazoo in this area!! So I hope that as Winconsin has taken steps to improve it`s lot that Colorado will see the light and start making changes in the right direction.

[Cabin4]

You know what I'm saying. Your no dummy. You have demonstrated a lack of sensibility on this from a business standpoint and that may be due to your background. I don’t know. But what I will say is when you boil it all down, the state must run its finances like a business P&L. States cannot print money like the feds do. All a state can do to combat overspending is:

1. Increase taxes
2. Borrow/float bonds and pay interest on it.
3. Get a bail out from the Feds
4. Lower Spending
5. Combination of all or some of the above

In cases 1 -3, the tax payer in the private sector is the looser which has been the general course of action for many years and 4 untouched. Now you may think that is just fine TM. But I do not. And no matter what you or anyone else says, deficits cannot be created by low taxation, it can only be created by overspending. Walker can only work in the context of the system we have, not some other system you wish was in place. For years, the tax payers have taken the full brunt of paying for the budget problem because 1-3 have been the course chosen. Its time item 4 be looked into and its only just that it is. Wisconsin does not have a tax revenue problem, it has an overspending problem. And nothing you say will change that. So everyone will get their needed services and everything will be just fine. Maybe if the feds did not tax so much a state like Wisconsin could make an argument for an increase at the state level to fund programs. But that is not the system Walker or any state can control. So part of the real problem goes back to the federal issue and the power grab by the feds over the states. This is raping states like Wisconsin from being able to tax based on what happening/needed inside Wisconsin.