Quake in Japan

[nw_hunter]

We are waiting on the waves to hit the Oregon coast anytime now from the quake in Japan.
They have closed the schools along the coast, and the largest waves are expected along the southern coast line of the state. The waves that hit Hawaii didn't cause damage, and they are not expected to be bad here on the pacific coast.

Those poor folk in Japan were not so lucky!

[Avyctes]

No, they weren't.

Watched video of the devastation all morning here at work.  Terrible. 

[Pat/Rick]

Yep, we got off very easy in the PNW. Prayers for them japanes folks.

[subdjoe]

And of course:

Tsunami sweeps 3 out to sea on North Coast

Surging waves swept three men out to sea Friday morning near the mouth of the Klamath River in Del Norte County, where Coast Guard personnel were still searching for one of the men after his two friends got safely to shore, authorities said.

The missing man would be the first fatality on the North Coast as a tsunami generated by a huge earthquake in Japan continued its assault on the California coast.

The U.S. Coast Guard said he and his friends came to the coast to photograph the tsunami despite warnings from authorities across the state to avoid the area.

"Hey!  They said to stay off the beach because of the chance of a tsunami event!  Let's go to the beach!''


Idjits.

[SteveHawaii]

Some idiots did the same thing here in Hawaii.  Puts extra pressure on the Police and Fire Departments to save these stupid people from themselves.  Luckily no one was killed here that I know of.  Japan, of course, quite a different thing.  Our woes pale to theirs.  At least they know how to heed tsunami warnings, otherwise I'm sure the death toll would have been a lot greater.  But then, we don't know the whole story yet.  My prayers are out for them.

[Cabin4]

Yes, WE (USA) do.

[Brett]

Morons like those in the story posted above who intentionally ignore warnings and do stupid stuff putting themselves at risk and worse yet putting the lives of rescue personnel and EMT's at risk really tick me off.   I have very little sympathy for them.   Same goes for those "adventurers" who go out into the wilderness hiking, rock climbing, kayaking, etc without proper training, planning and equipment.

Sorry, just had to get that off my chest.  Rant over.

Prayers go out to the Japanese survivors.     

[magooch]

Hey, hey, I represent that comment about kayakers.  It's been my observation that just as many so-called trained and experienced adventurers get themselves into trouble as those who realize their limitations.  I'm not making excuses for those who sometimes get over confident with their adventures, but stuff happens.

I try very hard to stay within my comfort zone when I'm off on an adventure, but unless you're content to sit at home in the old rockin chair, there are going to be times when mother nature throws you a curve-ball.  I always try to have a plan for worst case scenarios, but there is always the unforeseen.  Fortunately I've either been very prudent, or very lucky and have never needed to be rescued.  With that said, I'll knock on wood and try to be even more thoughtful about my outdoor adventures, but I'm still going to do it.

[Swampman]

Yes we need more nuclear power plants but now we won't get them.  We need more off shore drilling and we won't get that either.

[Shu]

 How would an Island nation without the wealth of coal or oil produce electricity?
A steam explosion is very violent indeed. There is alot of extra hype becuase of the word Nuclear. Petroleum has never harmed any environment has it?
The Japanese are getting on top of things, they do know how to handle these things.
Don't get caught up in the all things nuclear is bad hype. Nuclear medicine does save lives.

[Cabin4]

Yes, WE (USA) do.

.
Now they're up to 4 nuke plants having difficulties. I would venture to say all the value of power produced by these plants will be dwarfed by the costs of cleanup and years of medical issues,,,cancer, teratogeny, birth defects, contamination to food and ocean fish and so on.  A complete and utter capital loss....to be shifted to the Japanese citizen of course.

Afterall...We're just trying to boil water here.

..TM7
.

The entirety of Japan is located in the most earth quake prone zone on the planet. The entirety of the USA is not. So comparing the two is in this regard is patently misleading. Yes we do need a means to generate power in this country especially is we ever plan to take real action to reduce our need for imported oil.  A nuclear plant may not be appropriate for every area in the USA but there are zones that reduce the risks dramatically and are in low risk quake areas. There will also be a review of what went wrong here and how it can be prevented or mitigated. That can be used for the building of future plants.

Japan generates over 40% of its electricity from nuclear power. The US is about 1/2 that. Somehow the US will need to generate power. It can come in a number of forms and nuclear is still one of those options. We are not Japan nor are we Russia. We can do this and do it correctly.

[Swampman]

If you don't understand how nuclear energy works, it seems dangerous.  Cold War propaganda instilled that in our heads.

[Dixie Dude]

The navy subs and larger surface ships have used nuclear power since the mid-50's.  They haven't had any meltdowns or any major problems.  The new Ronald Reagan air craft carrier has 8 nuclear reactors on board.  It only needs 2-4 to operate.  They built in the others in case of damage during a war or battle if the carrier is hit.  If they built reactors to navy standards, I don't think we would have any major problems.  Even 3 mile island shut down and no one was killed.  Chernobal didn't have a contanment dome thus the. 

A reactor controls the nuclear explosion to very small levels.  It produces extreme heat in which a fluid takes the heat off the reactor and pumps through a heat exchanger to heat fresh water into steam which turns turbines.  If the heat can't be taken off the reactor then rods made from a material to stop the reaction are inserted into the reactor. 

Problem in Japan is either the piping for the steam or fluid off the heat exchanger has been damaged by the earthquake thus creating excessive heat and they can't get in to shut down the reactors.  Thus the cooling with seawater.  If they melt down, they are in containment buildings like 3 mile island was.  Russia built theirs as fast as possible, and took short cuts at Chernobal. 

[Shu]

Pretty good explanation DD.

When there is an "explosion" due to over heating it is most likely a steam explosion.  When the steam gets to a certain pressure it explodes the piping. It is very differnt from a nuclear detonation. Which is very unlikely with a reactor. You would a better chance of winning the lottery than having a reactor detonate. (that is if I remember my physics correctly)

[eye shot]

I wouldn't worry to much about the reactor that is in the containment building but for the spent fuel in the canal outside it. If it lost the heavy water and the spent fuel is exsposed nobody will get close. If you get whats called a shine your dead. All the news is speculating whats going on at these plants. In pictures of the plant you don't see any people or emergency equipment. I fear the personel may have left the plant. I'm speculating also.

[SHOOTALL]

boil water , humm , if you add the cost in lives , polutition , medical health , acid rain damage etc do you think oil and coal really cost less to boil water ? how about shipping cost of oil and coal alone is excessive , did you consider all these facts ? The oil spill in the Gulf , AK and other places have had impacts .

[Swampman]

Clearly you don't know what you're talking about.  Not a big deal.

[mirage1988]

And after this unspeakable disaster the teachers in wisconsin are still whining about a small pay cut, they should be ashamed of themselves!

[SHOOTALL]

And after this unspeakable disaster the teachers in wisconsin are still whining about a small pay cut, they should be ashamed of themselves!

I don't care for what they are doing and don't care for most unions but what does the quake in Japan have to do with the union in this country ? Are we to roll over and give up because they had a quake ? The people of Japan got delt a major blow , but we still have our own worries .

[no guns here]

Yup, I'm saying that the polution and threat from these nuke plants is thousands of times more harmful than anything the petroluem industry slops into the environmnet....

Dang... I hate when I agree with TM7 about something.  As long as the nuke plants work correctly, they are great.  The waste is the big problem most of the time.  There just isn't any good way to dispose of the waste.  If there is a problem with a nuke plant that is when we see the big problems.  Face it, you either deal with the immediate pollution from oil/coal or the long term pollution from nuke AND the potential to kill off large areas if there is a problem.

NGH

[SHOOTALL]

oil and coal have long tern effects , think acid rain for years and dead areas now.

[Swampman]

No real danger and here's why.

http://bravenewclimate.com/2011/03/13/fukushima-simple-explanation/

[SHOOTALL]

good post !

[Pat/Rick]

Swampman, thanks for that post. ALOT of info there. Some i didn't know, and some that refreshed my memory.

[Swampman]

Put your tinfoil hat on you'll be fine.


There is no safety issue.

[Dixie Dude]

Even with this 40 year old design, with a full meltdown, ratiation will only be particles in the steam cloud and will be localized in Japan.  It is not a nuclear explosion taking radiated particles into the upper atmospherse to be dispersed in the jet stream.  Like someone said, we blew up 100's of nukes in the 40's and 50's testing ever larger bombs in the desert southwest, in the Pacific, and in desert regions of Russia and in their Artic region.  It didn't kill millons of people.  This reactor is not Chernobel without a containment dome over the reactor.  What has been released so far is steam with maybe some particles. 

[Cabin4]

No real danger and here's why.

http://bravenewclimate.com/2011/03/13/fukushima-simple-explanation/

.
 Looks like these plant(s) have emitted  large doses of radiation and isotopes at this point.

Background radiation in Tokyo is up to 8 times normal....

, it looks like meltdowns are in progress and some breeching of engineered containment vessels. 


 please tell everybody what happens when Plutonium gets into the environment or how much it takes to kill 1,000,000 people.[/i] 


Sloppy and criminal petroleum operations,  like BP, that get concessions and exemptions from previous administrations are one thing,

vast areas rendered unihabitable, cancers and teratogeny, affects on wildlife, astronomical cleaup costs, no admittance areas, necessity of a security state in place,  long term food chain problems, practically impossible to clean up the isotopes,




.

Bunk. All Bunk.

[eye shot]

A lot of geeks on tv talking about what they read in a book and a controled study. It's the spent fuel that isn't in containment they should be talking about. It's likely that some big peices of the outside containment fell into the spent fuel canal and blew some water and fuel out into the enviro.

[k]

Put your tinfoil hat on you'll be fine.


There is no safety issue.

you folks that think all is well should go in there right now and offer your services,i'm sure they are hiring.
you will be able to make lots of money and show all of us dummies how safe it is.

[Cabin4]

Lets understand the real connection TM. Jeffery Immelt is the CEO of GE. GE designed the Japan Nuclear plants that are failing. Jeffery Immelt is one of Obama's best freinds. He has made many visits to the White House to meet with obama on how to create an oil crisis in this country. GE benefits from an oil crisis because they make many of the turbines that are used in wind and hydro power. They also make many of the solar products. Obama is shielding GE/Immelt from any bad info here with Japan. Obama has been remarkably silent on the issue. Just follow the money trail.