Author Topic: 22-250 issue (Read 2384 times)

rsh4364 · « **on:** March 14, 2011, 01:35:06 PM »

Just shot my new 22-250 3 times with 3 lockups..gun didnt want to open after each shot..would only open when hit hard on barrel..then casings wouldnt extract unless i opened really hard..also gun wouldnt lock back closed with spent casing in..was shooting hornandy superformance varmint 50gr. v-max..gun was very clean per handi-101..bore jb-ed as well..anyone else have problems,should i send back..and unspent shells extract fine..Thanks

Spanky · « **Reply #1 on:** March 14, 2011, 01:55:44 PM »

Clean it again... especially the chamber.

Spanky

gendoc · « **Reply #2 on:** March 14, 2011, 02:00:36 PM »

hand loads ? have you checked the primers to see ifin they have walked outta bit ?
seems this isa becoming a problem !!! i ain't experianced such wif mine, but there gardners.
good luck and i hope you get it figured out real soon

tim prolly got that rabbit on stand-by for ya !!!!

rsh4364 · « **Reply #3 on:** March 14, 2011, 02:38:24 PM »

beleave me gun cant get any cleaner, I really read alot here so i knew about importance of cleaning of gun..The loads are factory and primers didnt walk..the release just didnt feel right either had 2 really push awfully hard..i shot a few rounds with my other ultra in 308 and it was fine..I bought both at dicks recently..

gendoc · « **Reply #4 on:** March 14, 2011, 02:46:15 PM »

will dick's exchange it for another ?
if not, i'd send it in for warranty. and ask for a return ship'n label.
i've seen several of this caliber do great right out of the box with both factory ammo and handloads. never seen this problem. other than sumone pick'n up range brass and load'n to shoot wifout FL size'n..........
good luck

quickdtoo · « **Reply #5 on:** March 14, 2011, 03:41:33 PM »

Some factory Hornady loads have been reported to be too hot for a Handi, I wouldn't be surprised if the Superformance is, try some regular 22-250 ammo and see how it performs, sticky barrel release and hard to break open are signs of too hot a load. You can tell if it's too hot if you look for a gap between the standing breech and barrel face, if you can see light when looking across where they meet after the shot before you open the action, the load is too hot, or the barrel isn't fitted properly. Remove the forend and see if the barrel is tight to the action when it's lock up, it shouldn't be loose at all.

Tim

rsh4364 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 14, 2011, 04:06:33 PM »

thanks for the imput,and ive heard these are a little hot ,50gr. at 4000 fps..nice but maybe a little much..i will pick up some tamer stuff in morning..

Sourdough · « **Reply #7 on:** March 14, 2011, 08:18:43 PM »

I had the same problem, Handi locking up after a shot with hand loads I had worked up for my bolt gun. They were too hot for the Handi. I backed down 1/2 grain on powder and they worked good in the Handi.

cwlongshot · « **Reply #8 on:** March 15, 2011, 12:24:42 AM »

Quote from: rsh4364 on March 14, 2011, 04:06:33 PM

Thanks for the input and I've heard these are a little hot ,(a 22/250) 50gr. at 4000 fps.. Nice but maybe a little much.. I will pick up some tamer stuff in the morning..

OMG... yea this is a little hot!!!

Why the factory feels the need to hot rod calibers is just beyond me...

Just a observation, NEXT time ANYthing out of the ordinary happens when shooting a firearm, STOP after the FIRST SHOT!!!

You may NOT get a second chance!!!

A phrase comes to mind about someone continuing the same course of action and expecting a different result...

CW

rsh4364 · « **Reply #9 on:** March 15, 2011, 12:40:48 PM »

I bought some Winchester 45gr.jhp 4000 fps varmints. 5 shots no problems..release button alot tighter after shot still..but did open and extract on its own..I just assumed I could shoot any factory load in a new firearm..Is this the case with all calibers and Hornady ammo in Handis ? Thanks again I was starting to get discouraged with H&R as I had problems with my turkey 12ga. also..

cwlongshot · « **Reply #10 on:** March 15, 2011, 01:06:44 PM »

Quote from: rsh4364 on March 15, 2011, 12:40:48 PM

I bought some Winchester 45gr. JHP 4000 fps varmints. 5 shots no problems..release button alot tighter after shot still..but did open and extract on its own..I just assumed I could shoot any factory load in a new firearm..Is this the case with all calibers and Hornady ammo in Handis ? Thanks again I was starting to get discouraged with H&R as I had problems with my turkey 12GA. also..

And you should be able too!!!

Even your second choice advertising 4000 fps with a 45Gr bullet is allot!! Use to be the 220 Swift was the only one to make 4K and that was with a 40Gr bullet.

Trouble is manufacturers are always pushing things and Hornady ammo is a VERY BAD ONE!! We have SAMMI specs to keep these things form happening.. But YET again Hornady pushes the envelope... just like they do shortening 45/70 brass to fit there needs and pushing pressures with the heavy magnum loads of regular ammo and now this super-performance crap...

CW

Ten Ring · « **Reply #11 on:** March 15, 2011, 01:13:47 PM »

I had the same problem with Hard release on my wife's 22-250. I polished the latch area's with flitz on a dremel buffer wheel and now it is much smoother.
Jim

parkergunshop · « **Reply #12 on:** March 15, 2011, 01:30:12 PM »

These breakopen designs origionally made for shot shells lack the camming power and/or rotational force needed for the extraction of high pressure loads. Some of them have problems extracting shot shells in the 10,000-15,000 lbs pressure range much less 50,000 plus pounds for modern rifle rounds, the H/R design was for a shot shell to begin with.

Bolt actions multiply the force on the bolt handle giving mechanical advantage against a tight case in the chamber.
If you want to handload and have a safety factor pick a stronger more modern design, Ruger No1. is the only single shot factory rifle I care to own.

There is nothing wrong with the Hornady Ammo, it is just that some of the new rifle fads are not designed to be used with or lack the safety margin needed for pressures over 50,000 Lbs.

I wish that P. O. Ackley was around and could run blow-up tests as he did for many of the military bolt actions on some of these marginal design uses.

gendoc · « **Reply #13 on:** March 15, 2011, 01:43:24 PM »

for real ?

quickdtoo · « **Reply #14 on:** March 15, 2011, 02:49:42 PM »

Some people are just a little ignorant about H&Rs John, fortunately they're in the minority and most can learn with patience and education.

Tim

ig·no·rant

–adjective
1.
lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned: an ignorant man.
2.
lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact: ignorant of quantum physics.
3.
uninformed; unaware.
4.
due to or showing lack of knowledge or training: an ignorant statement.

rsh4364 · « **Reply #15 on:** March 15, 2011, 05:08:37 PM »

I like hornady its all I shoot in my savage 17hmr & 223 savage edge..So either Hornady is exceeding SAAMI & ANSI standards or H&R is not keeping up or my gun needs some work...Both my rifles are sold as ultra varmints so I kinda expected them to shoot hot fact. loads..And maybe hotter hand loads like my Contenders 20 yrs. ago....No offense but a little disappointed....

quickdtoo · « **Reply #16 on:** March 15, 2011, 05:34:33 PM »

You'll find H&Rs in general work best with less than max loads in the high pressure chamberings with 30-06 size case heads, TC doesn't make 30-06 class Contender barrels, that would include the 22-250, they only offer high pressure chamberings with smaller case heads. The 22-250 case head is very close to the same as the 270 Win, both have a SAAMI MAP of 65kpsi, the 22-250 also has more case taper which doesn't help.

Tim

http://www.lasc.us/SAAMIMaxPressure.htm

parkergunshop · « **Reply #17 on:** March 16, 2011, 11:23:57 AM »

Tim,

Thanks for clarifying the issue with the Handi's when used with the bigger case head high pressure rounds. And for your comments about the Contenders, which were not chambered for the larger rounds for this reason per SSK Industries.

SSK also relates issues with the earlier Encore Prototypes not being upto the stress of the larger high pressure cases it was developed to handle until a one piece investment cast frame was used vs a two piece one in the prototype.

From SSK's website:

"The Encore is bigger, stronger and heavier than the Contender. These differences will be considered both advantages and disadvantages when comparisons are made with the Contender. The Encore is capable of handling a large number of cartridges commonly considered suitable for only bolt action or single shot rifles such as the Ruger #1"

Note their comment does not include the Handi Rifle. And from the other comments on this thread, the Handi is not a design to soup up and hot rod.

P.O. Ackely told me that the Savage 99 and Ruger No1 designs were safer than the bolt actions for shooters using high pressure loads who wanted safety from gas blow backs. The Remington 700 is an excellent design, with a excellent safety breach, but a bust case can ruin the bolt by expanding the bolt head recess.

gcrank1 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 16, 2011, 12:24:36 PM »

I often thought it pretty cool his initials worked out to Point Of Aim

!

cwlongshot · « **Reply #19 on:** March 16, 2011, 12:29:34 PM »

Quote from: parkergunshop on March 15, 2011, 01:30:12 PM

These break open designs originally made for shot shells lack the camming power and/or rotational force needed for the extraction of high pressure loads. Some of them have problems extracting shot shells in the 10,000-15,000 lbs pressure range much less 50,000 plus pounds for modern rifle rounds, the H/R design was for a shot shell to begin with.

Bolt actions multiply the force on the bolt handle giving mechanical advantage against a tight case in the chamber.
If you want to hand load and have a safety factor pick a stronger more modern design, Ruger No1. is the only single shot factory rifle I care to own.

There is nothing wrong with the Hornady Ammo, it is just that some of the new rifle fads are not designed to be used with or lack the safety margin needed for pressures over 50,000 Lbs.

I wish that P. O. Ackley was around and could run blow-up tests as he did for many of the military bolt actions on some of these marginal design uses.

Here is the facts:

All manufacturers are bound by SAMMI specs for each cartridge.

Hornady manufacturers 45-70 lever evolution ammunition with a shorter than spec case in order to utilize there bullet at a OAL length that will fit and function in forearms that ARE made to the SAMMI specs.

Hornady ammo in the light and heavy magnum flavors are well known to be a problem in the H&R.

If the execs at Hornady will just change these specifications at will, they could change any of them. I for one will not buy there ammunition.

Personally, I have always been a proponent of rimmed chamberings in H&R's. Partially because the eject better. Partially because rimmed chamberings tend to be lower pressure. Partially because a break action just seems rite with a rimmed cambering. BUT, the H&R has been chambered for higher powered rimless chamberings for many years with no real problems associated with the higher pressures.

Hot roding these hi powered rounds is foolhardy in ANY action.

CW

sabbatus · « **Reply #20 on:** March 16, 2011, 01:20:09 PM »

one thing to keep in mind, ammunition manufacturers push the envelopes of everything at the request of the people that buy their products. most people are always wanting faster ammunition, not considering the safety or the design of the cartridge. Even the gun magazine writers push this thought and seem to try to get people to believe that they need the next biggest fastest cannon to get the job done. Yes hornady seems to push the envelope harder then most with their own powders and loads, but accordingly these loads have to fall into the sammi spec in order to be released to the public without fear of lawsuits. there are other companies that also push these envelopes, especially with the older cartridges. Just take a look at buffalo bore, they are just nice enough to protect their own butts by listing what firearms their ammo is safe in.

parkergunshop · « **Reply #21 on:** March 17, 2011, 08:51:12 AM »

Cwlongshot,

Your idea of rimmed cases in these actions is excellent, better extraction possiblities, less likelyhood of headspace problems, in the case of a case failure the rimmed case rim blocks the flow of gas to the rear of the action.

The rimmed case and the H&H belted cases are a safer designs, the rimless case just happens to feed better in repeating rifles and machine guns, it's only advantage is in feeding, otherwise it's a negative.

Same applies to handloading the rimmed and H&H cases have the advantage here also. It's much easier to form brass for wildcat cartridges using the H&H and rimmed cases without getting into headspace problems. Plus the case heads are a little stronger.